Assault Weapons?

FWIW: I was talking with the head of SLC Swat during the Trolly Square shooting. He told me everything has changed with regards to police and SWAT tactics since Columbine. He told me that so long as there is gun fire the officers are now taught to charge toward the gunfire. If the shooting stops they are to stop their advance and secrure the perimeter. At the time of Columbine officers were taught to first secure the perimeter, which is why officers stood in the parking lot at Columbine and watched the rampage through the school windows.

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Originally Posted by stefan

somehow my post was abridged, should have had 2 links:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...-goes-the-boom

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...the-boom---atf

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I know this is supposed to be part comedy.... but there is a lot of misinformation in those video...

for example... as an FFL holder (gun dealer), we have been inspected every year, they look at our books, and they had better be in order.

Now one positive... during the Clinton years the relationship between FFL holders and the ATF became very combative, which is why a lot of what now appear to be silly laws were added to the books. FFL holders were being harassed with the intention of forcing many to give up their FFL. Shit like being inspected every day type of crap.

After Clinton the ATF was revamped and instead of becoming the FFL holders enemy they became their support system. At the current time the working relationship between the ATF and FFL holders is very good (which is what it should be).

And while we do not have a Federal registry, guns used in crimes can still be tracked beginning at the manufacturer, through the distributors to the dealers, to the buyer.... remember I told you your records had better be in order.

The reason we don't have a Federal registry is gun owners do not trust the Fed's intention. Now if folks would stop proposing and threatening to take away assault rifles and forcing owners to sell all magazines holding over 7 rounds the gun owners would be more trusting and establishing a Federal registry would be practical... so it's kind of a catch 22.

I hate seeing any misinformation spread with regards to firearms, even in comedy, because some folks (like my dumbass brother) believes everything Jon Stewart's says is gospel.

Anyhoo.... just a little insight some might find interesting...

I'm still waiting for an idea or policy from the anti gun crowd that would have actually had some possibility of stopping the Sandy Hook incident.

Background checks? Nope, he stole the gun.
Registered weapons? Nope, he stole the gun and didn't indicate caring whether it was on some government database.
Harsher penalties for gun owners if they aren't kept safe? Well, the gun owner (the shooter's parent) is dead, so that's a pretty bad penalty
MORE gun free zones? Still trying to figure out how that could have stopped the Sandy Hook incident. Slaughters happen in these zones so LET'S MAKE MORE! :crazy:
Limit magazine capacity? Nope, well unless you assume that a first grader could have tackled him in the 1.5 second reload time. And the physical impossibility of 30 round magazines crumbling to dust once a ban is in place.
Ban "Assault Weapons" (that is, if any politician has any idea how to classify one). Nope, for somebody who murdered the gun owner, ignoring a ban is like rolling through a stop sign on a deserted intersection.

Are there any policy changes offered that would have had some little twinkling of a possibility of stopping or curbing the Sandy Hook carnage? Even a little?

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Originally Posted by Sombeech

I'm still waiting for an idea or policy from the anti gun crowd that would have actually had some possibility of stopping the Sandy Hook incident.

Background checks? Nope, he stole the gun.
Registered weapons? Nope, he stole the gun and didn't indicate caring whether it was on some government database.
Harsher penalties for gun owners if they aren't kept safe? Well, the gun owner (the shooter's parent) is dead, so that's a pretty bad penalty
MORE gun free zones? Still trying to figure out how that could have stopped the Sandy Hook incident. Slaughters happen in these zones so LET'S MAKE MORE! :crazy:
Limit magazine capacity? Nope, well unless you assume that a first grader could have tackled him in the 1.5 second reload time. And the physical impossibility of 30 round magazines crumbling to dust once a ban is in place.
Ban "Assault Weapons" (that is, if any politician has any idea how to classify one). Nope, for somebody who murdered the gun owner, ignoring a ban is like rolling through a stop sign on a deserted intersection.

Are there any policy changes offered that would have had some little twinkling of a possibility of stopping or curbing the Sandy Hook carnage? Even a little?

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There is something that would have eliminated the Columbine massacre, likely Aurora shooting, and likely Sandy Hook.

Eliminate Dr.--Patient confidentiality. I believe zero has this as one of his EO's(haven't read them all in their entirety.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CElOF...yer_embedded#!

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Originally Posted by Brian in SLC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CElOFx16Xlw&feature=player_embedded#!

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Nice. Thanks for bringing a valid, relevant video full of facts to this discussion. Not!

It's a bunch of adults pretending to be all indignant and disgusted. It's like when toddlers fake cry to get attention. Pretty weak...

I don't see anything wrong with that ad.
These people get all incensed as a bit of acting to convince you, the viewer, that you should also be disgusted. Its nothing more than the latest feeble move in the smear campaign against the NRA. Classic example of the media telling you how to think and feel. The ad is absolutely true, and sometimes the truth is hard to hear.
They use a good catch phrase like "political pornography" to make it appear as something that is vile and perverse, making the insinuation that someone actually derives sexual pleasure from it. They take it a step further and try to induce the idea that its a form of pedophilia by telling you the ad is about Obama's kids. It's a nice bit of acting is all it is. A completely emotional response, devoid of any rational, critical thinking. The conversation they are having is the platter on which this ad is presented to you, and presentation is everything, their show is like a dirty plate. Their charade is pretty transparent to anyone who has a rational approach to this issue.

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Originally Posted by oldno7

Eliminate Dr.--Patient confidentiality. I believe zero has this as one of his EO's(haven't read them all in their entirety.

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^^^THIS^^^


And in addition all states should be forced to submit their mental records into the background check system. Currrently less than half the states make any mental records avaiable.

Of course none of this would have helped Sandy Hooks, as the guns were stolen. Also wouldn't have helped Columbine as the kids were underage and bought guns on the black market..... hmm criminals with guns... where have I heard that before.

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Originally Posted by Bootboy

I don't see anything wrong with that ad.

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x2

The ad was designed to make a point and start people talking. It did exactly what it was designed to do.

This is easily the biggest joke of the year... the NRA put out a press/ web release criticizing the President's upcoming gun control legislation, pointing out that unlike most citizens, his daughters have around the clock armed protection including at school. The White House issued a statement expressing outrage that the NRA would use children, especially the Presidents' for political purposes. So you know what happened. At the Noon press conference, the White House trotted out four children asking for gun control.

:roflol:

Nothing I hate in the world more than Hypocrites.

http://msnbctv.files.wordpress.com/2...pg?w=400&h=300


Except for 4th graders make national policy... :roflol::roflol:

Can you judge the success of liberal rags by the current condition of their business?

msnbc is the liberal, tv, version of time, hopefully their fate is similar

But certainly people in this country don't vote with their $$$$---do they?


http://www.businessinsider.com/time-...decline-2013-1

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

Except for 4th graders make national policy...

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They do when they're slaughtered by someone.

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Originally Posted by Brian in SLC

They do when they're slaughtered by someone.

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That has yet to be seen....

I hope the dumbasses seeking gun control just keep tacking more items on to their wish list. Every time they tack a new item on it diminishes the chance of anything getting past. Too bad several positive things they could actually do to help the problem will be lost in their ridiculous demands.

March can't come soon enough as far as I'm concerned. Congress and the president have three huge "finacial cliff" type budgets that will need to be dealt with come March one. I just don't think the gun control advocates have the muscle to do much. The pro-gun groups are doing an excellent job of educating the public in a speedy fashion.

And just for giggles...


Senator Rand Paul to Introduce Legislation to Nullify Executive Orders Signed by President Obama
2013 January 17

According to Politico.com, Sen. Rand Paul is pledging to undo some of President Barack Obama’s executive orders on guns that the Kentucky Republican believes overreach.

“In this bill we will nullify anything the president does that smacks of legislation,” Rand said Wednesday on Fox’s “Hannity,” referencing his legislation that is slated to be introduced in Congress next week. “And there are several of the executive orders that appear as if he’s writing new law. That cannot happen.”

“I’m afraid that President Obama may have this ‘king complex’ sort of developing, and we’re going to make sure it doesn’t happen,” Paul said, adding that the Founding Fathers specified that Congress should make laws.

“I think there are a few Democrats that will worry about going home to West Virginia or other states like that and voting for a ban on guns,” Paul said. “So, I think there is a good chance we can stop his legislative action. I’m concerned he will try to do the regulatory fiat, what he can’t pass through legislation.”

And for the record.... the gun business is still going insane.... I was just up to my dad's and his comment was "you wouldn't believe how much money I've made in the past month". He has been buying "assault rifles" and "high capcity magazines" and turning around a day later and selling them for twice what he paid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

^^^THIS^^^


And in addition all states should be forced to submit their mental records into the background check system. Currrently less than half the states make any mental records avaiable.

Of course none of this would have helped Sandy Hooks, as the guns were stolen. Also wouldn't have helped Columbine as the kids were underage and bought guns on the black market..... hmm criminals with guns... where have I heard that before.




x2

The ad was designed to make a point and start people talking. It did exactly what it was designed to do.

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I might slightly disagree and be open for correction if I'm wrong:

Klebold and Harris were being treated, at least harris was on the anti-depressant Luvox.

harris was a great psychopath(per FBI investigator), there were signs all along, they just were not heeded. Of course those looking back have clear 20/20 vision.

holmes showed similar signs and was seeing a psychiatrist at the school, Dr. Lynne Fenton.,

Fenton alerted University officials that holmes could pose a threat to others. After he dropped out of school, Fenton claimed they had no authority to respond to his behavior.(sounds like the ball was dropped here)

Some say lanza snapped when he learned of his mothers intentions to have him committed, that would certainly involve a Dr's evaluation.

So I have to think that had any of the Dr's involved in these 3 cases, pursued their determinations, it would be likely these murderers could have been avoided.

Certainly well open to discussion here.

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Originally Posted by oldno7

I might slightly disagree and be open for correction if I'm wrong:

Klebold and Harris were being treated, at least harris was on the anti-depressant Luvox.

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What I posted is correct.... and what you posted is correct.... I don't think a doctors note would have made any difference.

I was pointing out that in addition to failing the mental part of owning a firearm that it really didn't matter as all three obtained their guns illegally. In other words, no amount of background checks or gun registration would have made a difference.

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Originally Posted by Brian in SLC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CElOFx16Xlw&feature=player_embedded#!

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This is "political pornography"

Attachment 62858

And THIS is not.

Attachment 62859

Thank you for your cooperation

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

What I posted is correct.... and what you posted is correct.... I don't think a doctors note would have made any difference.

I was pointing out that in addition to failing the mental part of owning a firearm that it really didn't matter as all three obtained their guns illegally. In other words, no amount of background checks or gun registration would have made a difference.

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Agree, what I was pointing out was that if it wasn't politically incorrect, these 4 could have been committed in one form or the other and these murders may not have happened.

But the aclu and drug companies wouldn't favor such action.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldno7

There is something that would have eliminated the Columbine massacre, likely Aurora shooting, and likely Sandy Hook.

Eliminate Dr.--Patient confidentiality. I believe zero has this as one of his EO's(haven't read them all in their entirety.

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Isn't it interesting, the constant cry for "Right to Privacy" except when it comes to Gun Ownership, the Liberals want to create a nice database?

I guarantee you won't see this in the general media....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR3t7j2tUec

:popcorn:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

I guarantee you won't see this in the general media....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR3t7j2tUec

:popcorn:

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WOW--Well stated, I thought I had seen most but I missed this one.

I just got this, my 2nd response.

CHRIS STEWART 2nd District of Utah http://stewart.house.gov

http://email.iconstituent.com/images/letterheadimg1.jpg

323 Cannon Office Building (202) 225-9730

January 17, 2013

Mr.

Dear Mr.

Thank you for contacting me regarding the issue of gun control. This is a crucial issue and I appreciate the time you took to express your thoughts.

Recent and saddening acts of violence, such as those in Newtown and Aurora, have brought guns to national attention. These acts of violence, as terrible as they are, should not be used as justification to revoke rights outlined in the United States Constitution.

While I share your concern about gun violence, I believe that we must protect the rights of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms. I strongly believe that we need to look into the status of our country

Keep Writing folks!!!!