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I watched the Governors speech, not at all what you've heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by twotimer
He said home is the safest spot but go ahead and walk around the block, go hiking, go hunting/fishing, etc just use the 6' rule when coming onto others.
Lots ,lots more but that is in contrast to what you're hearing.
He stated Summit county was the only one locked down in Utah.
I think there was something else about Coloradoan's and pot needles, if you come don't lick our produce or sumthin':ne_nau::haha:
Interesting stuff.
Lt. Gen. Todd Semonite, Chief of Engineers and commanding general of the Army Corps of Engineers, talks with Rachel Maddow about how the Army Corps of Engineers works with other federal agencies and state and local authorities to modify existing facilities to provide much needed expansion of hospital capacity in the face of mounting COVID-19 cases.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCsi...ature=youtu.be
USNS Mercy (T-AH 19) pulling into the port of Los Angeles. Mercy deployed in support of the nation's COVID-19 response efforts and will serve as a referral hospital for non-COVID-19.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqZ2EaeA7Wc&feature=youtu.be
Little more about the largest hospital ship in the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpJvP8djQtk
F**k the cruise lines... if their ships were not US Flagged in 2019 they deserve zero US bailout money...
Climb-Utah.com
No Kurt I have not read the entire 272 page report word for word. But yes I have read parts of it and skimmed other portions.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
The 15,000 ventilators he claims NY had an opportunity to buy comes from an article written by Betsy Mccaughey (https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/we-did...-for-pandemic/) she extrapolates the number from that ventilator report from page 30. On this page it compares a moderate outbreak to a severe outbreak and the need for ventilators in each scenarios. Where she came up with the cost of ventilators I don’t know she doesn’t site her source for that quote. And no where in the allocation document does it talk about the cost of ventilators.
The report wasn’t just created in 2015, as her article misleads readers to believe, it was first drafted in 2007 and updated in 2015 to include pediatric and neonatal protocols and update adult protocols. It is also used by other states or at least they developed their plans based off NY’s.
This is where Trump took his information from, and her article is flawed.
The ventilator report states:
Pg 37
No where in the report does it recommend NY purchase 15,000 ventilators. A search of the document for recommend pulls up 88 times that word is used and not one time does it say NY should buy ventilators. The document speaks to how to use available ventilators in the event that choices have to be made and who that decision falls on.Quote:
E. Stockpiling Ventilators
New York State pandemic planning includes careful consideration of the potential shortage of ventilators, based on the estimates discussed above. There is a federal government stockpile of ventilators, but its use is limited for any one locality; there are not enough ventilators to be distributed to meet demand if many regions need them at once. New York State has stockpiled 1,750 ventilators (57) to help reduce ventilator need in the face of the moderate scenario; (58) however, there are no current plans to buy enough ventilators for the most severe model. The State’s current approach to stockpiling a limited number of ventilators balances the need to prepare for a potential pandemic against the need to maintain adequate funding for current and ongoing health care expenses. Furthermore, severe staffing shortages are anticipated, and purchasing additional ventilators beyond a threshold will not save additional lives, because there will not be a sufficient number of trained staff to operate them. In the event of an overwhelming burden on the health care system, New York will not have sufficient ventilators to meet critical care needs despite its emergency stockpile. If the most severe forecast becomes a reality, New York State and the rest of the country will need to allocate ventilators and other scarce resources.
On page 29 in the footnotes it says
Last, the scaling factor (approximately 8.22) was derived by comparing death rates between the severe and moderate pandemics. This approach “works backward” from deaths, which given modern medicine might not be as high as observed in 1918. Unfortunately, the lack of data from the 1918 pandemic prevents an approach to “work forward” from infection rates, illness severity, and duration of illness to the number of ventilators that might be needed simultaneously in a severe pandemic. Given these caveats, it is likely not possible to accurately calculate the impact of a severe pandemic, including ventilator need, given the tools provided. Given these disclaimers, it is likely that the approach used overestimates the number of ventilators that would be needed during a severe pandemic.
Can you Kurt or someone site where NY was told to buy 15,000 ventilators and the exact cost other than Ms. Mccaughey article?
No I do not like his style. I have never liked Trump. I don’t need the media to help me form my opinion of him it was formed before he ever ran for President. I am not Republican, not Democrat, Not Liberal I guess that makes me Independent… but I don’t feel like I belong there either.
He doesn’t research half the shit that comes out of his mouth.
In my very biased opinion he is doing a mediocre job. I don’t 100% disapprove of things he is doing concerning this pandemic but I think he has been slow to take this virus seriously but then so were a lot of us. I can’t stand all the asinine blaming about whose fault this is… it is a virus that mutated. Shut the hell up and work with the dam situation. Playing the blame game doesn’t serve a purpose.
In that light… yes it does matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
I think the AZ man should be nominated for a Darwin award.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Not broadcasting his LIVE press conferences is censorship and I personally have no respect for any outlet that would promote that… even if listening to him talk about drives me up the wall because he is a horrible orator. His favorite words are “thing” and “tremendous”. Every item is a “thing” … we do great things, it is a big thing… it is a tremendous thing…
Closing travel from China raised my eyebrow… but ultimately that is a commendable move.
Anyone who wants this to be worse just to prove that Trump’s economy is bad is selfish.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...lmost-anywhere
Abbott is probably one of my least favorite companies after being a Point of Care coordinator for EIRMC in Idaho for 2 years. They are shady in my opinion. But they talked about this test in the briefing tonight. I believe it was Pence that said your doctor could perform this test right in the doctors office. This is a perfect example of not researching accurately. In order for a doctors office to run this type of test they have to have the right CLIA certification.
Many doctors office choose not to maintain these certifications because you have to maintain records on validating the test, quality control and continued maintenance and education of personal to name a few things to keep that certification. The way Pence stated it made it sound like every doctors office could just buy this and run the test.Quote:
CLIA requires that any facility examining human specimens for diagnosis, prevention, treatment of a disease or for assessment of health must register with the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) and obtain CLIA certification.
However for places that currently run Flu's, Streps, and RSV tests on this platform they will be able to get the new test and get it going rather quickly. I am curious about it sensitivity and specificity of the test. This type of test has a higher false negative then Real-time PCR tests.
Also I sincerely doubt that is a 5 minute test. I think the other 3 take a total of 20 minutes to run from start to finish. You still have to take the swab and put it in an extraction fluid before you run the test.
When the food runs out we'll still have each other....
ROFLMAO
Climb-Utah.com
I haven't read whatever article you refer to, I did read an abundance of NY's Ventilator Allocation guidelines.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
It clearly states the above quote.
NY knew they couldn't cover a pandemic in equipment or manpower.
So why does cuomo cry on tv that Donald Trump isn't doing his part?
Like I stated--history will show the Trump response to this crisis was very effective and his leadership reduced overall deaths.
The media will attack him 180* from whatever he does--constantly.
And yet he does the right thing and his focus is on rebuilding our Country "again".
I can't prove what information he based his decisions on and neither can anyone else.
To call him un informed is disingenuous at best and democrat hate speech at worst and it was repeated with no evidence, daily on msm and those who fail to think, repeat those untruths.
I didn't post what he claimed to base his information on, theres likely only one person who will ever know that.
I haven't watched network news for years and won't go back.
If I need information, I research it on my own and extrapolate an opinion based on that research.
I don't need the tv telling me what I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by blueeyes
Maybe it's out of context to believe he does very little to inform himself.
The man has character flaws from a Westerners(me) position, he's a New Yorker.
But I can't seem to find an actual policy he has had his hand in that I disagree with.
I'd love to hear your top 5 policy failures by Trump list---seriously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueeyes
And yet the US is ranked #1 on the GHX index for being prepared with a score of 83.5
South Korea is 9th with a score of 70.2
Twice you stated it was your gut feeling.
Heres real world statistics.
You can click on any country for the ranking
It would appear the Us wasn't caught with it's pants down
But I'm probably reading it wrong--:ne_nau:
https://www.ghsindex.org/#l-section--map
Rank Country Index Score Region Population Income 1 United States 83.5
Northern America 100m+ High income 2 United Kingdom 77.9
Europe 50-100m High income 3 Netherlands 75.6
Europe 10-50m High income 4 Australia 75.5
Oceania 10-50m High income 5 Canada 75.3
Northern America 10-50m High income 6 Thailand 73.2
Southeastern Asia 50-100m Upper middle income 7 Sweden 72.1
Europe 1-10m High income 8 Denmark 70.4
Europe 1-10m High income 9 South Korea 70.2
Eastern Asia 50-100m High income 10 Finland 68.7
Europe 1-10m High income 11 France 68.2
Europe 50-100m High income 12 Slovenia 67.2
Europe 1-10m High income 13 Switzerland 67.0
Europe 1-10m High income 14 Germany 66.0
Europe 50-100m High income 15 Spain 65.9
Europe 10-50m High income 16 Norway 64.6
Europe 1-10m High income 17 Latvia 62.9
Europe 1-10m High income 18 Malaysia 62.2
Southeastern Asia 10-50m Upper middle income 19 Belgium 61.0
Europe 10-50m High income 20 Portugal 60.3
Europe 10-50m High income
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
You have much more education than me, could you point me to your source of this?Quote:
Originally Posted by blueeyes
It seems that Easter is still 2 weeks away.
In my uneducated, non tv watching opinion, it would seem that all areas of the Country are not created equal:ne_nau:
I don't know but is it possible certain areas of the Country go online before others?
ie. Escalante has much less risk than New York city.
So does Escalante need to remain quarantined until New York is fully recovered or maybe on the downhill side of the curve?
Could Escalante open by Easter with restrictions such as maintain social distancing, wash your hands frequently, etc?
Or do the "studies" just say Easter is not a possibility?
Are these guys any good?
The United States was ranked the best-prepared country in the world to handle a pandemic in late 2019 by the Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI) and the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security (JHCHS)
This woman in NY city doesn't seem too concerned.
Kind of a stark opposition to the guy in Tyvek suite,
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFile...pg-1337792.JPG
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
Trump mis managing everthing:Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
Trump To Cruise Lines: If You Want American Coronavirus Relief, Try Being American Companies First
“They have thousands and thousands of people that work there, and almost maybe as importantly that work on shore filling these ships with goods and products,” the president said Thursday. “The cruise line business is very important.” …
“I do like the concept of, perhaps, coming in and registering here. Coming into the United States,” Trump said at Thursday’s daily briefing on the coronavirus response. “It’s very tough to make a loan to a company when they’re based in a different country.”
https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morri...mpanies-first/
You may not be old enough to remember this show, but I am...it was great. Jack Klugman was a really good actor. He was like a scientist, Einstein, genius superhero ladies man in that show.Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
It did however, eventually jump the shark. All the episodes were "reality" based until they ran out of ideas and had him chasing around a vampire or some shit.
All part of a bigger plan that most people don't know about. False Flags, when something is going a certain way, it's just a mighty strange coincidence that the news narrative gets immediately changed to something like a mass shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by BasinCruiser
With everybody off the streets and no crowded places, no mass shootings can happen, the narrative can't be changed.
This is a work of genius that we will see unfold in a couple of weeks. Stay tuned and enjoy the show.
Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
What if these ships were loaded up with a certain kind of "sick people" and then kindly transported them over to Guantanamo Bay?
Just what if.
Remember all of those sealed indictments that have been building up, how people have been asking "Why is nobody getting arrested?". Well think about the timing. People can't leave the country easily, if you're insanely rich and you can't fly out, and you're on the coast, what's your next escape plan? Water.
What can't happen right now if arrests start going down? Protests, mobs, riots, mass shootings, escape out of the country, ability to focus media on arrests because COVID is dominating the media.
What would be a great way to transport thousands of people to GITMO? Jet, or by large ship?
This could all be pie in the sky crazy talk, but regardless we must admit what the conditions are right now, and the things that can't happen like mass shootings. These arrests could be happening RIGHT NOW and COVID is dominating the media. It would be perfect timing.
Alright I'm done with this tin foil for a bit if anybody needs some.
Kurt,
Scott asked what our gut feeling was telling us. So I answered what my gut tells me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
Why does my gut tell me this, because I work in the lab and I know what the testing capacity is and until we can test people and only isolate those that currently have the infection and do contact tracing to isolate people they come in contact with we are best to keep this social distancing going. When will the labs be up to speed with testing? Realistically, probably not until late April. Why, you ask? These tests that are newly developed have to be manufactured, shipped, and validated before we can start implementing testing on anyone and everyone. The test my hospital is bringing in house is not available to order until March 31st. The newest test Abbott announced yesterday won’t be available until Mid April. And then it only does us good if we can keep ordering and receiving the tests. Trust me I wish it would go faster than this and by letting these companies develop these tests without jumping through all the normal hoops was huge! And it gives us the best chance to start getting people back to work. But it doesn’t happen overnight and that is what I base my GUT feeling on.
Last weekend when I was at work we ran out of our Biofire respiratory panels. We had ordered double what we normally order and that order usually lasts several weeks. So it is not far fetched to worry that once we start in house testing for COVID we might have periods where the available tests run out before we can get more. This goes for all the tests available in the country.
Absolutely they could go back online before other areas, but not until adequate testing is in place.Quote:
I don't know but is it possible certain areas of the Country go online before others?
I don’t have any studies to show you just the pleas of healthcare workers currently overwhelmed. I have already posted 3. Two from doctors and one from and ICU nurse.Quote:
Or do the "studies" just say Easter is not a possibility?
Yes I see we scored the highest out of 195 countries, but what exactly is this score used for Kurt? It is a metric designed to identify GAPS in a country's ability to respond to a global threat. I was unaware of this index until this morning so I had to go educate myself because like you I don’t rely on network news. I do research.Quote:
And yet the US is ranked #1 on the GHX index for being prepared with a score of 83.5
South Korea is 9th with a score of 70.2
Twice you stated it was your gut feeling.
Heres real world statistics.
You can click on any country for the ranking
It would appear the Us wasn't caught with it's pants down
But I'm probably reading it wrong--https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6k...YJzp-7PH5mtSyc
https://www.ghsindex.org/#l-section--map
For others who are unfamiliar with the GHS index I suggest the video below, it does a great job of explaining what this index is.
[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXSxOfIfvig [/VIDEO]
Interesting that around 6 minutes into the video Ernie Moniz says
Quote:
No country high, middle, low income is fully prepared, in fact most countries have major gaps across all 6 categories in the index
At around 8 minutes in he says
Quote:
The health system category was the lowest scoring category in the index, with an average of 26.2% out of 100. And I also note, in a more parochial note for healthcare access the United States was well below average
And right now it is in this arena that our pants are caught down Kurt. This index is great. It is a metric thoroughly vetted to show governments around the world where they lack preparedness for a pandemic or other similar type of disaster. Like I said, I hope after this is all said and done, I hope we learn gobs from what was done right and what we could have done better.
In my reply to you I posted that article so you could go read it. But Here you are again.Quote:
I haven't read whatever article you refer to, I did read an abundance of NY's Ventilator Allocation guidelines.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/we-didnt-have-to-have-ventilator-shortage-leaders-chose-not-to-prep-for-pandemic/
You keep throwing this quote up again and again Kurt. And I am not exactly sure what your purpose is in doing this.
I didn’t dispute this I posted exactly what it said on page 31 instead of summarized quoteQuote:
From report
The state did not plan to increase its stockpile because it anticipated that in the event of a severe crisis, there would be shortage of trained staff to operate them and demand would outweigh any emergency stockpile. The report said the state had to balance the likely ventilator shortage with the need for adequate funding for current and ongoing health care expenses.
From page 31
Quote:
The State’s current approach to stockpiling a limited number of ventilators balances the need to prepare for a potential pandemic against the need to maintain adequate funding for current and ongoing health care expenses. Furthermore, severe staffing shortages are anticipated, and purchasing additional ventilators beyond a threshold will not save additional lives, because there will not be a sufficient number of trained staff to operate them. In the event of an overwhelming burden on the health care system, New York will not have sufficient ventilators to meet critical care needs despite its emergency stockpile. If the most severe forecast becomes a reality, New York State and the rest of the country will need to allocate ventilators and other scarce resources.
What I asked is where did the report ever say NY should buy 15000 ventilators?
Quote from Trump
I maintain that Trump's info on the “death panels” and quote for cheap ventilators comes from Mccaughey’s article. Unless you can prove otherwise.. Don’t give me your line of crap about there is only one person that will ever know that.Quote:
“This says, ‘New York Governor Cuomo rejected buying recommended 16,000 ventilators in 2015 … for a pandemic,'” Trump said, reading from a printout of the article. “‘…established death panels and lotteries instead.’ So, he had a chance to buy in 2015, 16,000 ventilators at a very low price and he turned it down. I’m not blaming him or anything else, but he shouldn’t be talking about us.”
This is from the article and it is what Trump paraphrased
Quote:
In 2015, that task force came up with rules that will be imposed when ventilators run short. *Patients assigned a red code will have highest access, and other *patients will be assigned green, yellow or blue (the worst), *depending on a “triage officer’s” decision.
In truth, a death officer. Let’s not sugar-coat it. It won’t be up to your own doctor.
In 2015, the state could have purchased the additional 16,000 needed ventilators for $36,000 apiece, or a total of $576 million. It’s a lot of money, but in hindsight, spending half a percent of the budget to prepare for pandemic was the right thing to do.
As for Cuomo and his need for ventilators…. Apparently there are 4000 in some wearhouse in NJ. If that is the truth Cuomo was definitely out of line.
As for 5 policies I don’t agree with.
The Wall
The way he dealt with families at the border
And pretty much any of his policies that have to do with the environment.
You and I will never agree on Trump. I am not even going to try and find common ground there.
Ok need more info here. Can’t leave us on a cliffhanger...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Maybe I haven't been paying attention to conspiracy stuff, but I haven't the slightest idea what the heck this is...who the hell would want to go there? Sounds pretty heavy, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
I’m getting tired of these updates. Would it be that hard to include total hospitalizations and recoveries? It would make this data quite a bit more useful.
——
The Utah Department of Health announced Saturday that 602 people have now tested positive for COVID-19 in the state, up 122 cases from Friday's 480.
https://i.ibb.co/zZgSj1j/C1-DE5415-F...EA6-F96-F2.jpg
https://www.ksl.com/article/46735801...epartment-says
So roughly 5.3% of those tested have it and 0.2% have died. I realize we’ve got a long way to go, but dang I hope we can keep it up. If we knew how many were in critical condition...boy that would be helpful!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
The only line of crap is what you've reposted from cnn and msnbc.(thats where your "gut" feeling comes from.)Quote:
Originally Posted by blueeyes
You need to step away from your tv, we're going to survive this far better than those prognosticators of doom claim for no other reason than to undermine the best President our economy has ever had
And an attempt to destroy his next election chances.
So you have listed 2 policies of Trumps you don't like:
The wall--So I'll only put it in the context of this current crisis.
Since we are proven to be the most prepared country in the world for a pandemic, folks coming from outside are Country only clog up
medical facilities that would be better at serving actual US citizens. Having a means to strictly regulate their entry would seem overly prudent.
Families at the border:
Theres hundreds of articles out there the underlying commonality is families were separated from children under both administrations, the nauseous infusion of-he was worse---no he was worse is of no logic.
They both did it! Justify one--claim the other was worse, they were doing the same thing--stemming the flow of "illegal immigrants/aliens", seems like sound policy for a Country battling a pandemic.
The only thing that has changed since Clinton and obama is--orange man bad--thats it.
Simple logic says no country can exist without a border.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLx1EKifpGs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiP7pth9jqE
I was speaking with a neighbor/ professor of public health who's training is in epidemiology. He told me this is not "apocalyptic," but that the worst is still to come. Yippee.... :facepalm1:
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
Heres your reply--do you stand by that analysis?Quote:
Originally Posted by blueeyes
Haven't heard anyone say anything about getting going without proper testing in place.
Still rate South Korea ahead of the US in pandemic readiness?
Us caught with pants down?
We seem to agree that no Nation can be completely prepared for a pandemic.
So since you chastised the United States--what should we have been more prepared for when an unknown covid pandemic strikes?
And equally as non meritorious, what did Donald Trump do wrong to prepare for an unknown covid virus?
"No we are not ready to be back to work by Easter.
My gut says it took China 2 1/2 months to tamp the virus down by making everyone in the Hubei Province stay home.But Americans are impatient and won't stand to shelter in place for that long and the biggest share of them are not prepared to financially wait this out.
Obviously South Korea took the first SARS outbreak to heart and prepared. The US has been caught with their pants down. We need the correct testing to quarantine only those that are positive and anyone they have come in contact with.
There is no win win in this situation. There is no win lose...
I hope we learn from this and prepare for the next time. That is my gut feeling."
Trump sees USNS Comfort off as it departs for New York
President Trump on Saturday saw the USNS Comfort off as it departed Naval Station Norfolk in Virginia for New York City, where it will serve as an emergency hospital for the city's coronavirus patients.
"Our country is at war with an invisible enemy," Trump said, referring to COVID-19. "We are marshaling the full power of the American nation ... to vanquish the virus, and we will do that."
Trump also referred to the ship as a "70,000-ton message of hope and solidarity to the incredible people of New York."
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...s-for-new-york