Lots of contributing factors but only one of them is uniquely American..... Easy access to firearms.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
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Lots of contributing factors but only one of them is uniquely American..... Easy access to firearms.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
^^^Well, sure. But access to firearms isn't the most compelling reason. If folks want to get guns, they're gonna find a way to get guns. Even if guns were 100% outlawed in the US folks would still find a way to access them.
How do you think gang members in the US have so many guns? Is it because they're going through all the proper channels and passing background checks? Not a chance. They're getting them illegally -- a practice that will continue even if guns are banned.
If we took away easy access to guns (which is an American characteristic) these terrorists would just switch to something else, probably bombs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uintafly
You appear to not understand a very important American concept... The Second Amendment is not about and has never been about saving lives, it's about maintaining the historic amount of freedom we enjoy.
The question you should be asking is are you willing to trade your freedom for security? And if so what will the end result look like? Who will provide the security and how will they provide it? What will the loss of freedom actually cost?
Americans already traded a large amount of their freedom and privacy away in the hope for security after 9-11, are you willing to trade more?
[emoji631]
Climb-Utah.com
Here's an interesting interview between Joe Rogan and Bernie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8rnLBylKOs
I understand the concept quite well actually, and never called for banning of guns. I just wish we'd be honest and admit that it's a tradeoff we are willing to make. More guns = more freedom = more deaths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants, and theater goers, shoppers, concert goers, kindergartners and coworkers.
The basis is, do you believe the possession of a gun gives somebody the urge to kill? Or does somebody have the urge to kill and so they obtain what is available, guns, vs explosives, vs vehicles, vs mass poison, vs a box cutter on an airplane.....
Yep. Plus, if you look through the annual murder data from the CDC, pretty much every state in the union has more murders committed by the use of hands, feet, knives, blunt instruments (hammers, baseball bats, etc) than the entire rifle category combined (which includes AR's). People bent on committing murder will figure out a way to do it with whatever instrument they have on hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Very smart woman, very good, logical read.
Why Red Flag Laws Are Not A Good Solution To Mass Shootings
https://thefederalist.com/2019/08/06...ass-shootings/
Kinda curious
When was the last call to ban automobiles?
Some drive them drunk and kill people.
forget automobiles, why isn't Alcohol banned since it's involved with almost every one of these incidents?
No but it does give them an easy means to do it. Especially when considering moment of passion domestic type killings and suicides. It takes a lot more planning, work ,expertise and time to figure out a way to poison a classroom of school kids than it does to grab your moms gun and head to the local elementary school. I'm not saying any type of gun control would eliminate gun deaths or murder, but it's at least slow it down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Just like with cars, you will never eliminate vehicle deaths but at least we make some effort in controlling it (licenses, insurance, speed limits, etc.)
"Stop the Bleed" class report: It was informative, I learned a lot and glad I went. The class lasted for an hour and a half. I learned how to use and apply a combat application tourniquet (CAT). This type of tourniquet is what the hospital and EMT's use on a daily basis. They covered the different and recommended types of wound bandages. I learned how to properly pack a wound, which is not the same as just applying pressure. I learned how to apply a chest seal. I think they covered everything pretty good without actually taking us to the ER or out into the field to "practice" on actual injuries. I learned I need to add a few more or different items to my trauma kit, like a good pair of medical shears and a CAT. I keep my trauma kit items in the small pouch I've linked below, which stays in my Jeep and I carry on me when I hike, do trailwork, go shooting, etc. I think I'm going to put together another smaller kit that I can attach to my mtn. bike. It'll include a CAT, QuikClot gauze, a couple rolls of sterile gauze and some gauze bandages and tape.
https://www.amazon.com/CONDOR-EMT-Po...-goods&sr=1-20
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/QuikClot-Adva...3d728b7c977ad2
https://www.tacmedsolutions.com/SOF-Tourniquet-Gen-4
https://www.amazon.com/North-America...language=en_US
I noticed IHC had a bunch of Stop the Bleed courses coming up in the Salt Lake valley here soon. Just google it. They are free.
For you boaters out there, our instructors said they have seen more boating accidents this year than ever before which are requiring tourniquets. So, keep one or two in your boats and know how to use them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
They tried that already.
Didn't work. Criminals were more than willing to fill the demand.
This is great. Thanks for posting it. Here's the thing. I think that when you get Bernie away from all of the other crazies and talk to the guy, I don't think that he wants anything different than what I want for the country. I would assume that most people are this way. All they want is for people to be able to go out and do what they want to do and feel safe while doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
I diverge from his views when he starts to talk about how to fix it, though (there are a few things that I agree with, but not all).
This is why I hate the news media and political debates and all that crap. It's not real. It's all designed to highlight the bad parts of someone else's views and shine a light on how awesome you are because they are terrible. All that while at the core of it, we are all trying to get the same things. We just have to listen to each other and agree to have an adult conversation without acting like big babies if we don't get our way.
Many here and in this country have little knowledge as to what a right is--as guaranteed by the Constitution
The Constitution did not give citizens any rights, it merely protected the ones we are born with, (inalienable).
I'm with you on this. I am not in favor of gun bans. This is one of the things I disagree with Bernie about. He mentioned the assault weapon ban of '94 to '04. He seems to think that was so awesome. There is no evidence that it helped at all. The number of shootings didn't go down in any measurable way that can be attributed to the ban.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
Like I said. It would be nice to be able to sit down and have a grown up conversation without everybody getting all butthurt because someone doesn't think just like you.
The "right" to keep and bear arms
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
The conversation from this side, is and will always remain----shall not be infringed.
Theres solid history to back the thought process behind the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution.
To compare the United States to any other nation is non sequitur.
The 2nd amendment guarantees who we are and that we remain that way--Free.
All the talk and acceptance of socialism only draws more emphasis to the need for our 2nd amendment, to the Constitution.
Theres so many easy solutions to the violence problem and most are already law, which due to political correctness, we CHOOSE not to enforce.
A-freaking-men to this. I haven't heard a single argument for a new law that would have prevented any of the shootings that we've had so far. Just enforce the laws that are already out there. We don't need more than we have already.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
If you don't already follow John Correia, from Active Self Protection, on facebook and youtube, you should. Mostly he analyzes real-life defensive shooting videos. Here, he's discussing violent video game and psych meds in relation to violence. What he says here is the same conclusion I've come to after reading many of the studies he references.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi6HDIskBZs&fbclid=IwAR1v-00_WOLsssmXIbNDAYWFgSTuzT_NMLu_yLw4QsOOMohz3C_v7eg xJH0
Now I see the flaw in your thinking!Quote:
Originally Posted by uintafly
As it's NOT a tradeoff that many are willing to make. And unless you can get 75% of the states to agree it's just not going to happen. What part of "Shall not be infringed" are you having trouble understanding?
I accept the risks, but maybe I'm just old school because I also accept personal responsibility. I prefer to have the security of my family and myself under my control and not that of others.
:nono: Well, Thomas Jefferson had it right by placing the "." after the word "tyrants." Your additions to this quote of adding theater goers, shoppers, concert goers, etc. creates a false moral equivalency (bad argument) to patriots and tyrants. Those two, patriots and tyrants, are moral opposites. One good, one bad. Adding your categories of people to the statement makes no sense and is not persuasive. Perhaps you meant to say "murderer" and "cop"? That would be more equivalent to tyrant and patriot. You may get a few tugs of the heart strings but your statement just doesn't fly.Quote:
Originally Posted by uintafly
Interesting thing about the real quote is that Thomas Jefferson also said that the blood of patriots and tyrants is the "natural manure" of the tree of liberty. Here is a piece of the letter from Jefferson to William Stevens Smith written shortly after the completion of the Constitution, but before any state had ratified it.
http://tjrs.monticello.org/letter/100
And Thanos was right? Why the heck do you care? Generally I think you're a pretty cool guy, but you pooped all over your shoes with this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by uintafly
I was listening to Howard Stern about 30 years ago and he had one of Elvis Presley's bodyguards on. The guy told the story (apparently well know) about how when Priscilla divorced him and started dating Elvis's karate instructor, Elvis said to his "posse"..."I want him dead".
Well, it took about a week for these guys to find a legit hitman willing to do the job, but by that time, Elvis had calmed down and said "Forget it". He then said that if they had the killer quick, that karate dude would have been dead.
That's analogous to why we have the Three Day Waiting Period...which I think is probably a good idea. Gives a guy who walked in with the wife blowing the plumber time to chill. But he could just as well use a knife or a club?
The "Red Flag" laws might deny a few freaks their guns, but killings surely aren't going to stop. We can thank our liberal psycho media making sure the body count stays high...that's who I blame for this nonsense.
Trump will throw 'em a bone...that's all.
But it doesn't. Juarez across the border from El Paso had 3000+ murders in 2016 vs El Paso's 17. With full on Mexican gun control. Violence is cultural.Quote:
Originally Posted by uintafly
I recall reading stats that showed subbing our minorities, the US murder rate is lower than Europe. Even with guns.
If he does even a bone, I'll likely walk away. I will not accept being spit on by the corporate wing of the party. So the only unifying issue is corp tax cuts? Which I'm all for. But I care about immigration, the 2nd Am, and China trade as well. All of which the corp wing disagrees with me on. Half the coalition can't diss the other half when the serious chips are down and expect support for their cause anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by twotimer
Heres is a real cure for all of this
https://i.redd.it/xyj7axpjk2f31.png
^^^BTW, there wasn't a "Big drop in mass shooting deaths" during the assault weapons ban. That is a myth that is perpetuated by uneducated libtards.
There, I said it...
I do this when I go on vacation...I don't pay attention to jack. However, after a few days I'll tire of music while I'm on the move and tune into NPR just to see what's going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
I was on a road trip during the Kavanaugh thing...what a circus that was!
The problem with "just turning it off" is that if you invest, or are thinking of making moves like that, you must pay attention to what's going on...and then you're bombarded with the nonsense. Clicking it off is easier said than done.
You're right Kurt...these "Red Flag" laws certainly are open for abuse. Once passed, that's it...and then when the Dems regain control they'll just expand on the already existing law. Those idiots did that with lead paint back in 2010...used the Chinese toy thing as an excuse.
Not familiar with the laws regarding lead paint on your house and what has to be done just to remodel? Everybody that owns a home built before 1978 got screwed. Better hope they don't find lead!
Seems reasonable though...considering these guys post up their intentions. I remember 5 or 6 years ago a black dude who was a teacher up at a school in Oregon?...he killed 6 or more people he had worked with. I think it was a hostage situation for a while?
Anyway, after it was all done the investigators discovered that he'd been posting about killing these people for a week on Facebook...but no one apparently saw it, because he literally had zero friends.
I won't abandon Trump if he throws them a bone...
I'm open to someone being able to logically explain, how turning innocent citizens into criminals is something to strive for.
What if those who claim to represent "us", did that and not the criminals.
Somehow--the urge to do "something" equates to--lets just do the wrong thing...
Red Flag laws are pure bullshit if they don't include due process.
If the laws do not include due process there is no doubt the Red Flag Laws will be misused.
:flag: