Venezuela is a poster child of gun control gone wrong
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/clif...ol-gone-wrong#
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Venezuela is a poster child of gun control gone wrong
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/clif...ol-gone-wrong#
I'm sure the cops would have arrived in 20 or 30 minutes....
Woman shoots and kills intruder.
https://www.wfaa.com/mobile/article/...6-9779e34e1926
This store clerk was fired for defending himself and employer.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=koZGZ_1558724871
Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun
Quote:
Originally Posted by BasinCruiser
^^^THIS IS HILARIOUS :roflol:
Foreplay - either I’m missing something or doing something wrong, or this guy is. Who involves a loaded weapon when getting jiggy with it?
Attachment 92763
https://www.kxxv.com/news/national/f...y-deputies-say
Makes one really have to question, was the victim really complicit in the foreplay, or was this an attempted rape that the victim didn’t comply with?
Make that last word in that last sentence a variable and you have the epitome of the socialist mind, today. I can’t be responsible for my own......choices, education, priorities, self improvement, finances, housing, sustenance, healthcare, being a productive member of society.... Attributes that most people used to pride themselves on, they see as ‘oppression ‘.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
When a liberal finally gives guns a try.
Attachment 92768
Talk about overkill. Who needs that many keys?
Attachment 92769
This is a tough one...I realize I don't know all the facts, but from what has been stated in the news, I don't think I would personally resort to using deadly force in this situation. What do y'all think?
Deadly Provo shooting: Friends, family puzzle over man's final moments
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...l-moments.html
PROVO — Those who worshipped and drank coffee with Jeremy Sorensen had the same thought when they learned he was shot and killed by a passerby who had spotted him in a violent struggle with a woman.
"This can't be our Jeremy. This isn't him," said Troy Walker, a pastor at Redeemer Church in Orem, where the 26-year-old Sorensen was a member.
Walker and Steven McKinley, also a member of the congregation, remember their friend was social and upbeat, even if anxious at times. He had not had an easy start in life, they said.
As police wrapped up their investigation Thursday, Sorensen's friends and family members said the authorities' account of the last moments of his life does not line up with the Jeremy they knew.
About 8 p.m. Monday, Sorensen and an 18-year-old acquaintance were fighting in the driveway of an apartment complex, Provo police said, when a driver in his 20s got out of his car and told Sorensen to stop, warning he would shoot. The gunman shot Sorensen twice, including once in the chest, said Provo Sgt. Nisha King, and Sorensen died later at a hospital. She declined to release the name of the gunman, who she said has cooperated with investigators.
The woman was treated for a concussion and hip injuries consistent with being repeatedly punched and kicked. Police withheld her name and have not said how she and Sorensen knew each other or what led to the violence.
On Thursday, Sorensen's cousin, Mike Olson, said Sorensen sometimes struggled to process things due to a brain injury he sustained early in life.
"He would not have acted out violently if he was not provoked," Olson said in an email. "I hope that through a thorough investigation the police will be able to figure out what led to this. Jeremy has been described by friends as childlike, which is very accurate. He wasn't an intimidating or imposing person, but rather gentle."
Sorensen's church friends recalled him as a skeptic who loved to read and worked multiple jobs, both in construction and fast-food restaurants. He was adopted by a Utah County family after a time in foster care and sometimes visited his birth mother in Texas, they said, part of an effort to come to terms with his complex family life.
McKinley often tried to get a rise out of Sorensen by making off-color jokes, but found his friend was unflappable.
"I never saw him out of control," McKinley said.
Walker, the pastor, noticed some of Sorensen's traits mirrored those of his own adoptive brother.
"It helped me put who Jeremy was in context," Walker said. "It would help me see past some of that initial awkwardness or initial quietness, to see who he was at his core."
Sorensen spent time with Walker and others in the congregation at coffee shops, their homes and at church, and would crack jokes and challenge others to think critically about their faith.
Walker, who is from Texas, noted Provo is home to very few black residents. But he said he could not be sure if race had played a role in the shooting.
"If race did play a role, I don't believe it was that the shooter disliked African-Americans. I believe it would have to do with fear of the unknown," he said.
Sorensen's brother, Joseph Sorensen, said in a statement he suspects the woman from that fateful encounter is the same woman who he says had been harassing his brother for about a year.
"We certainly wish the shooter would have pulled out a phone rather than a gun. We also wish Jeremy had called the police before ending up in a fight with this woman but we wonder if it would have turned out any better if he had — especially if it was the woman who has been harassing him," the statement reads.
Sorensen's adoptive family raised him in Tooele along with eight siblings, and he attended then-Dixie State College for a time before working on an organic farm in Arizona, according to an online obituary. He loved fishing, "Lord of the Rings" and comic con, and leaves behind his own young son being raised by an adoptive family with whom he had a positive relationship. His funeral is scheduled for Friday morning.
About the same time, Utah County Attorney David Leavitt will meet with Provo police to review their investigation. There is no deadline on a possible decision to file criminal charges against the gunman, Leavitt told the Deseret News, but his office will work at a "reasonable pace."
"I want to see the whole picture," Leavitt said. His approach won't be "to look for hate crimes where they may not be there, but to be willing to be open to the possibility, if you see evidence of that. This is a fair and balanced analysis."
Leavitt said it's his job to protect civil order and guard against vigilante justice, but also to recognize that people have a right and maybe an obligation to help victims of crimes.
One main question, he said, is Sorensen's mental state.
"What was he doing with this victim? Was he trying to kill her? That has to be a relevant question to answer the question of whether there was justification to shoot," Leavitt said.
Utah's self-defense law stipulates that people are justified in using deadly force if they reasonably believe it is needed to prevent death or serious injury to themselves or others. Such violence is justified when the threat stems from imminent, unlawful force, or if it's needed to prevent a forcible felony, Utah code states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BasinCruiser
Just wondering what your stance is on things like death with dignity, drug legalization, Utah alcohol rules, gay marriage etc?
I guess it would depend on if I could stand by and watch a man (generally bigger and stronger) beat up a woman (generally smaller and weaker) while calling 911 and then get my camera going to record the action so that it can be determined that the man was indeed meaning to create serious injury to the woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandstone Addiction
A passerby as I understand it, saw the struggle and decided to interrupt it. It was reported that he shouted to the man to stop and that he refused to obey.His choice became to engage in a physical hands on approach or a more distanced approach. He chose the later.
I don't think anyone has the real story because on the surface he was completely justified in his action.
It's too bad he will put through the ringer and spend a lot of money to defend himself. If that is a hassle you don't want to go through perhaps you should rethink your reason to carry. Is it only ok to use deadly force if it is your immediate family?
I know you didn't ask me personally, but I'll insert my stance anyway. I'm pretty liberal on all these points: Pro euthanasia, pro MJ legalization, I advocate for gay rights, and think utah's liquor laws stink.Quote:
Originally Posted by uintafly
But to balance that out I am a strong advocate of constitutional carry gun laws, and believe in tighter immigration policies.
I think that makes me a Republicrat. :mrgreen:
What about yourself?
Sounds good, man. I'll throw down some big stuff too...Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
Euthanasia? Oh yeah...I've got a spot all picked out to huck myself off when it's time to check out. As long as I can get there...1200ft, the crows and critters have have the juicy bits. My bones will be crushed to dust and washed down the Colorado River Basin. However, If I can get a shot that let's me die in my sleep, that is certainly an alternative.
MJ?...mixed bag on that. I kinda recuse myself.
Gay stuff? Let 'em get married if they want...who the hell cares otherwise? I also don't care one bit about who someone is boinking...so if they're going to scream about "discrimination"...then screw them. My ears turn off...I may even work against them if I get annoyed enough.
Guns? Oh yeah.
Shoulda thew abortion in there too, Mr. Fly.
In regards to Mr. Sorensen...I would have kicked his ass if that appeared to be a certain win. Otherwise, if he didn't stop, I shoot him in the ass. I wouldn't shoot to kill unless he was coming at me. Also, I don't think it would have been wise to just "film" this girl getting beat up or wait for the cops...he could smash her skull.
Ice's words of wisdom.....
Don't start a fight you can't win...
Or
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight...
YMMV
That's quite the unfortunate story, so many alternative routes could have been taken.
Without knowing the story behind the struggle, why go for the kill? If you MUST shoot your gun, how about a warning shot, or at the very last straw, shoot the guy in the lower leg. But going for the kill?
What if he had just found out the girl had stolen 10K from his grandmother, or molested his child, or had run over a pedestrian while driving and texting? Still no justification to beat a woman as described, but there had to be some motive for this "reasonable" man to lose it.
The shooter could very well be charged with manslaughter if they find a certain backstory that would justify this "calm" man to get upset.
GRANDPA Of Teen Killed In Home Invasion Says AR-15 Gave Homeowner “Unfair Advantage”
Last week, a 21-year-old Elizabeth Rodriguez allegedly waited in a vehicle outside, while three Oklahoma teenagers, 17-year old Jacob Redfearn, 19-year old Maxwell Cook and 16-year old Jake Woodruff, broke into a Wagoner County house. Investigators say the 21-year-old Rodriguez planned the home invasion. All three teens were shot and killed by the homeowner’s son.
Now the grandfather of one of the teenagers is speaking out about his grandson’s death.
https://100percentfedup.com/grandpa-...vantage-video/
I think technically it makes you a libertarian. Me too, for what it's worth. I know it's like pissing into the wind, but if we could somehow break the 2 party stranglehold on our politics I may be able to once day vote for someone who represents what I think. For me most of the time I am voting for the slightly better than option. I think Trump is a conman and a crook, but most of the current crop of dems would like to enact all sorts of policies that would take my money and give it to others, and I am selfish and want to keep most of what I earn. I have no problem paying for community improvements like roads, security, libraries, schools, parks, etc. but draw the line somewhere to the right of paying off other peoples student loans and college tuition. The dems seem to have gone all in and telling people that everything wrong with their lives is the fault of billionaires and that they deserve the government to step in and give them everything for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
Yeah I've never understood the concept that since billionaires exist that I'm somehow owed something more than what I earned of my own accord.
The billionaires aren't the problem.
If all those folks out there advocating for a 70% tax on the rich were somehow made filthy rich overnight do you think they would change their minds? Or would they still agree to pay 70% of all their income to the government? Ya, right. :roll:
The rich aren't the problem -- entitlements are the problem. If you're not satisfied with your current financial situation, step up and do something about it instead of putting on a Robin Hood mask and trying to evoke financial equality via stealing from the rich.
Robin Hood is bigger than Jesus.
There was some petition somewhere/some time recent for the WalMart employees to ban together and cut down the CEO and top management salaries, to make them more equal.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
So let's say you've got a salary of 5 MIL, and you've got 50k employees, you give each of them 100 bucks, and you're down to zero. So every one of your employees got $100 richer FOR THE WHOLE YEAR and you've got no salary. Problem solved?
People need to stop thinking that because somebody has a lot of money, there's less for everybody else. It's false. And this theory will ruin the economy.
^^^THIS^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
unfortunately a large number of people don't understand basic economics... including many in Congress.
There are MILLIONS of people in our country that are definitively poor...by USA standards, at least. But there are many millions more that have a lot of nice stuff. You know what happens to a plate of cupcakes that's brought into a 3rd grade classroom? It disappears, and they want more.
A girlfriend of mine proclaimed herself a communist, and I said "Good luck with that, because you guys aren't getting jack shit." She laughed and said "Well, you can't stop a girl from trying". Can't stop any of them, really.
You know what's funny? You can get rich "representing" these people.
It is kind of ironic that when they do get rich they don't immediately donate all their dough to the poor. The fact that Bernie doesn't see the irony in this quote is hilarious, “I wrote a best-selling book. If you write a best-selling book, you can be a millionaire, too,”Quote:
Originally Posted by twotimer
Replace writing a book with starting a business or investing in real estate though and suddenly it doesn't count. lol
What’s better than paying extortion money to the Mafia for ‘protection ‘? When the government does it for you. Who needs to be armed when the bad guys are paid to not rob you?
Attachment 92878
”The Richmond program utilizes a team of pseudo-social workers, typically former convicts, monitor high risk individuals and pitch them to join the program and eschew violence.In Richmond, the stipend for high risk individuals giving up violent activity ranges from $300 to $1,00 each month, depending on their progression in reaching personal and professional goals, Mother Jones reported.”
http://sjvsun.com/news/fresno/fresno...y-the-shooter/
Hahaha... so my daughter just sent this to me...
.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5057c76b32.jpg
Climb-Utah.com
Yep...and you should be proud.
Later reports indicate that witnesses said the guy started approaching the shooter after he ceased beating the woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Sorry if you are going to pull a gun your mentality should be to end the threat period. Warning shots and wounding shots are only good on TV. If you are not shooting center mass you are not training right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BasinCruiser
:roflol::roflol::roflol:
Yep. This. Even with center of mass shooting, your target can still fight. There are so many videos out there of shooting victims still physically staying in the fight for 30+ seconds even after getting shot in the heart. Keep shooting until the threat is down and neutralized. Never fire warning shots (you are responsible for every round fired. Where is that warning shot going?) and never shoot to wound.Quote:
Originally Posted by middlefork
"It's a hell of a thing killing a man. You take all he's got, and everything he's ever going to have".
Bill Munny.
Platinum level quote :-)
We are all taught the proper way to stop a threat in the concealed carry course, but it sure can be different when you've got a gun pointed at somebody. Suddenly the thought comes that this person has just made a mistake, maybe they're drunk or high, maybe something traumatic just happened to them, and I'm going to kill them for it, speaking from experience.
But I agree, if it's to protect somebody while the attacker is in the act, do what you must. But you'll have to live with it. They never follow up with the shooter to see how they're doing a year later.