Try Icevader.......Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachme...chmentid=49674
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Try Icevader.......Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachme...chmentid=49674
A helmet that protects the entire head; Tom Jones would be proud!Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Other prominent forum members through the eyes of Google:
Iceaxe...
Attachment 85920
Brian in SLC...
Attachment 85918
Ratagonia...
Attachment 85916
Sombeech...
Attachment 85917
And then I googled Governor Herbert...
Attachment 85921
Seems appropriate. The only thing that motivates Herb is money. That said, he might attempt to kowtow to the OR show, and if he does I really hope the OR goes to Colorado anyway just to spite him. It would be good for him to watch a recurring 45 Million dollar paycheck walk out the door as a result of his uncompromising greed. In other words, I'm not unhappy with the OR show -- I'm unhappy with Herb.
Either way, the OR is under contract to remain in Utah until August of 2018, so they're not going anywhere anytime soon.
The liberals told me to present you with this trophy for participating in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by twotimer
https://lynnhpryor.files.wordpress.c...partipant3.jpg
Patagonia and the rest of the snowflakes can ETADIK..
When did the definition of "Tolerance" change to "Fighting those with a different opinion"?
Oh...just wanted to add another hateful quote to the list you're keeping track of. My participation in this thread has been zilch because I'm a bit ignorant of what the beef really is and the boys in Utah seem to be all over it. But once the "hate" finger started getting pointed and things that I had said got rolled into the conversation, I figured I'd better throw down something to uphold my reputation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott P
BTW, Scott...my name is Byron. Show some backbone and say it next time.
Jeez Byron. To be honest, I didn't even pay attention to who said what of the comments I cut and pasted. I just searched libtard or liberal and those comments came up. I would have to do another search to see who said what.Quote:
but once the "hate" finger started getting pointed and things that I had said got rolled into the conversation
There was no mal intent.
My response was to 'Beech was saying that it was the conservatives being the subject of name-calling:
Otherwise, we can just label conservatives as racist litterbugs and hope they surrender because of name calling.
What does that even mean?Quote:
Patagonia and the rest of the snowflakes can ETADIK..
I read this earlier in the day and can't get over this point. Many members in my family and handfuls of my friends would classify themselves as "conservatives" and it's an echo chamber from everything to money to moral issues to governance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott P
But you are right, money is always the root of every issue. (Drugs, Marijuna, Alcohol, Gambling, Education, Abortion, Jails/Prisons relocations or expansions, Pipelines, Land Development, and many more).
Here is an example of what I heard today: we were talking about suicide at work and what if you saw a guy on a edge of the building deciding whether or not to jump. My conservative coworkers mostly agreed that they WOULD encourage him to jump. They cite - it's one less person in the world, one less person to feed, one less person to be a drain on someone's family and friends. This was an actual conservation!! They didn't value a persons worth (or soul) but compared his life to $$.
Now I would consider myself as a moderate as I hate the polarization of the two-party system and am telling them that I would be encouraging him NOT to jump as I believe every live is worth it. There are exceptions, of course, as with everything in life, but who are these people to encourage to others to end their lives??
I then turn it around on them and play the Devil's Advocate (which makes it very personal). "Hey Rob, if your daughter or son or dad who has cancer was on that edge, I would be yelling "jump! You are wasting your families money, etc.". That shuts them up real quick when you make it personal like that. To be clear, I would NOT do that in reality. Sometimes, these conservatives need to recognize that money isnt the lowest denonininator and that's how we should base every issue on. $$$
There are more important things in life than the constant pursuit of money. And back to your point, unfortunately for the State of the Utah, the OR show is leaving (confirmed about 20mins ago) after their contract is up primarily because of money.
I think most people FOR the OR show are not the excessive tree-huggers that we imagine in our heads being run over by bulldozers but simply outdoor-minded people wanting access to our federal lands.
And sure, the state could probably manage it better than the Feds in a lot of circumstances. But the State has a knack for selling it to private hands (which we will never get back) or leasing it for oil and coal development which scars that area.
If you look at Vernal and go a little south-east in Google Earth, look at the drilling derricks scattered all over! It literally is jaw-dropping in regard to the amount up there.
I think a lot of environmental people don't want that eye-sore to be all over the Grand Staircase or Zion or Kanab or the Unitas...or Bears Ears.
And mark (or mock) my words, Utah will spruce up their tourism budget this year and hit it hard on TV with Utah ads all over this year to repair the PR image. And we will continue to see more conservation groups and protests than ever before because of this fall out.
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Oh yeah? Well Herbert and friends can ETABAGOFDIKS, so there. :twisted:Quote:
Originally Posted by BruteForce
Dang, they really are leaving:
http://www.sltrib.com/news/4952414-1...undefined.gbpl
Well good job Herb......Was it worth it?
One thing that the articles didn't mention on either KSL or the Tribune is whether they are staying for the last 3 shows. The OR committee said they are moving "as soon as possible".
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Colorado (including our governor) is trying to recruit the Outdoor Retailing Show.
Attachment 85925
There is quite a difference on the attitude of public lands from the Colorado Governor vs the Utah Governor:
(Governor) Hickenlooper isn’t throwing snowballs at his friend Herbert. The moderate yet liberal-leaning Democrat Hickenlooper and the conservative Republican Herbert “agree on 80 percent of everything,” Hickenlooper said.
“But this is one place that we really don’t agree,” Hickenlooper said. “As much as I admire him, I think we need more public land, not less.”
Hickenlooper’s political legacy will include a bear-hug embrace of the recreation and outdoor industries. His Colorado Beautiful initiative will inventory all of Colorado’s public lands, from municipal pocket parks to Forest Service wilderness and national parks, as a way to identify gaps and segments that are hindering public access. His $100 million plan to develop trails across the state aims to make Colorado the most bike-friendly state in the nation.
The recent passage of the bipartisan Outdoor Recreation Jobs and Economic Impact Act — which will include the economic impact of the outdoor industry in the federal government’s annual accounting of gross domestic product — will “allow Colorado to make a really compelling case to the outdoor industry,” Hickenlooper said.
It’s the same case Hickenlooper made in 2010 to land the Snow Show, securing what remains as the largest convention booking in Denver’s history. The show lures more than 18,000 attendees a year who stir a $35 million annual economic impact.
“Part of the argument we made to SIA and the Outdoor Industry Association is that we are a better place to hold these kinds of conferences because we already have that crucial mass,” Hickenlooper said.
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/01/30...show-colorado/
Fox13 News is saying that Diamond Expo (the owners) are trying to make 2017 the last year (which implies breaking the contract for 2018).
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You're call on the election was impressive. Very impressive. So I have to ask...what's the deal on this date?Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Guys -- it's going to be okay. We have all of that Amazon sales tax revenue to make up for the $45 million dollar loss from losing the trade show...we're good. :roflol:
The end of Trumps second term. And it's very rare for the same party to be victorious in 3 consecutive elections.Quote:
Originally Posted by twotimer
And my feelings still have not changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Because of the retail show or for other reasons? Conceal carry? Gay rights? The Highway scandal? HB 477? Amazon sales tax? Just curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
All of the above and more. The Outdoor Retailers Show doesn't even make my top 50 reasons of why I dislike Herbert.
Enjoying this thread...pass the popcorn.
For the record. I just like to start conversations that I think will resonate with the members on this forum. That's why we have this fine establishment called bogley. It's a place to talk about the outdoors and discuss many things that need to be talked about. We don't want tumbleweeds. It's healthy to hear different angles and not get too bothered by what others say on the internet.
I don't always participate after the thread has been started, but sometimes come back to stoke the fire if needed. I don't have strong opinions on most of it, but I enjoy reading the perspective of others to help form my opinion, which often changes as I hear from others.
Don't be so modest.:haha: We all know that you are the best troll in the history of Bogley. :haha: Although I'm partially joking I mean this with admiration.Quote:
For the record. I just like to start conversations that I think will resonate with the members on this forum. That's why we have this fine establishment called bogley.
Accadacca with his phone posting on Bogley:
Attachment 85926
OK, let's take stock of what our wonderful Dickhead Governor has done for the people of Utah:
1. Repeatedly vetoes permitless conceal carry in Utah
2. Paid $13 Million in hush money to avoid being exposed for taking bribes from a local construction company.
3. Publicly decries gay marriage.
4. HB 477 - and all of the idiocy that goes with that.
5. Makes all the citizens in Utah who use Amazon pay taxes on all their purchases.
6. Chased the Outdoor Retailer Convention out of Utah.
7. Chased the Interbike Trade Show (largest bicycle trade show in No. America) out of Utah.
8. Declares pornography a "Public Health Crisis" --- really?!
So...what has he done that has really benefited Utahns? Cuz right now I can't see anything but a long list of f*** ups. And why exactly isn't there a strong movement to oust his incompetent ass?
Have you ever known somebody that makes a ridiculous demand, "or else"? I have, we all have. And then sometimes, to the shock of the demanding party, those demands are met, and they still end up leaving?
Yeah, I know people like that, we all do.
Is it possible they still would have left even if Utah politicians met their request? Definitely.
But hey, if somebody already has their mind made up, they might as well use the opportunity to throw a political jab on their way out, and try to convince us they really wanted to stay but their hand was forced, when they already decided to leave a long time ago.
For those of you who think these parties would never do something like this, that they couldn't even think of doing such a thing because their hearts are so warm fluffy and soft, than any other conversation on the matter would be very unproductive.
Quote:
Is it possible they still would have left even if Utah politicians met their request?
In this case, I don't think so. Salt Lake City is more centrally located to the West as any other major city. Hotels and convention costs are generally much cheaper in Salt Lake as well than they are in places like Seattle or Denver. Salt Lake City is actually closer to the mountains than say, Denver or Seattle. Salt Lake also has the reputation of being easy to get around in and traffic volumes are less than in many other major cities. Further, some of the biggest supporters of the Retailer Show, such as Black Diamond, are actually headquartered in Salt Lake. Even so, Black Diamond was one of the advocates for moving the Show outside of Utah. There were a lot of advantages to keeping the Show in Salt Lake. As far as locations go, Salt Lake was really hard to beat. It is actually a world known event too and the biggest show of its kind.
The Retailer Show has been in Utah for 20 years and has a positive relationship before 2012 when the Utah Transfer of Public Lands was passed. Since then, and because of other public land issues, the Show has been threatening to leave. They view Utah as being hostile to their business, but gave it five more years. This year they followed through with their threats. I think a lot of people didn't think that they would really do it.
so this whole thing is not exactly new, 'beech. peter metcalf, former ceo of black diamond and critical member of the outdoor industry association has threatened to move the convention out of the state if utah didn't change its stance on public lands starting well over a decade ago (2003/2004).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Bummer the show is leaving. Agree w/'Beech that leaving isn't the best idea. Too bad UT pols didn't wake up to the reality of the threat before it began to be carried out.
Attachment 85929
Exactly. So why do we get the idea that utah could do something right now that would make them stay?Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan
They made up their minds long ago, and there is nothing that will change it. So they might as well throw some political jabs in on the way out.
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so you speak for them, now? how presumptuousQuote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
No I'm just incredibly perceptive.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan
I mean, it's not going as far as saying somebody "hates the outdoors" because of some assumptions about a policy, but oh well.
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If they made up their mind long ago and nothing would change it, why didn't they leave long ago? Also, this year two of the biggest retailers boycotted the show and it was likely that more would follow.Quote:
They made up their minds long ago, and there is nothing that will change it.
Jeez Beech, wasn't it you that once told me to quit being so sensitive on the forums? :ne_nau:Quote:
I mean, it's not going as far as saying somebody "hates the outdoors" because of some assumptions about a policy, but oh well.
An email from the organizers of OR
.
Our Goal is Not Just to Speak. Our Goal is to be Heard.
The last week has certainly been an interesting time as a show organizer and I am most thankful for the incredible team at Outdoor Retailer, our partner - the Outdoor Industry Association, rep associations, retailers and brands, in addition to the hundreds of emails offering support.
We respect that brands have to make decisions that reflect their values. However, in the last week, the heart-felt expressions of support for the show from exhibitors of all sizes have far outweighed those choosing not to participate. Iconic brands such as adidas Outdoor, Ibex, The Conservation Alliance, The North Face, REI and Wolverine Worldwide, among many others have not only reinforced their intent to come to SLC this summer, but also, will make their voices louder than ever before. (Please look at unity.outdoorretailer.com for specific expressions of support.)
We can all most easily agree that this is not a question of inaction. Rather, it is a matter of what action.
This is not a one-and-done issue. While Bears Ears National Monument status is a lightning rod, it is just the most currently visible example of what will be a long, hard series of fights the outdoor community needs to not only raise our voices about, but, even more importantly, about which we need to be heard.
Outdoor Retailer is the only gathering where the entire industry comes together to conduct commerce, share best practices and exchange ideas. There is no other event where the most respected iconic brands and retailers - large, medium and small in size - show up "en force."
But the boycott of Outdoor Retailer levies the most significant negative impact on those medium and small-sized companies that count on the show to conduct business. We have a unique, maybe even singular, opportunity to coalesce, organize, speak and lay plans to make a difference around public land awareness in such a way that it is not only heard but that it can make a positive difference.
Our goal is not just to speak. Our goal is to be heard.
Now is the time for action, not words. These are turbulent times with passions running high – a wonderful trait of the industry we serve. We share these passions. We hear you, are listening closely and taking action. Here is what we are doing:
An Ideal Venue: As swiftly as humanly possible, we are doing the work necessary to procure potential alternative locations for Outdoor Retailer. Though we may wish it different, this is far from a snap of the fingers thing to make happen. Convention centers and hotels are not sitting idle. In every instance of every potential venue, there are hurdles that have to be cleared and that simply cannot be done overnight.
We expect that our current proposal process – which we initiated before any of the company withdrawal announcements last week – will take between 60 and 90 days. We are exploring options for expediting this process and will keep you updated on the progress.
Gather Best Ideas: Outdoor Retailer and Outdoor Industry Association will harness the creative ideas already being put forth by exhibitors to express their opinions at Outdoor Retailer Summer Market. Through unity.outdoorretailer.com, we are exploring options including utilizing the time and funds earmarked for the Industry Breakfast as a time to express our opinions; rallies; conservation town halls; and a community camp out using city parks, among other ideas. We must work within the rules of the city, the existing permits we have and other laws by which we must abide. Our team has already begun to investigate what steps need to be taken to accommodate those activities. We are working in tandem with parties that have put forth ideas including brands, retailers, non-profits, rep groups and others.
We Need You: We need your voice. We need your support. And we need your creative ideas at unity.outdoorretailer.com. Please visit the site and lend your ideas to the community. We will provide updates on what we’ve gathered on Monday, February 27th.
Thank you,
Marisa Nicholson
Show Director of Outdoor Retailer
Oh I'm not offended or sensitive at all, in fact when I read those multiple descriptions of me hating the outdoors and environment, I literally laughed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott P
I have no opinion of the Public Lands issue. I don't know the policy, nor do I have any interest at the moment. Now I could ask what a certain political party thinks of it, and then align my opinions because of them, but that is lazy. Besides,my main critique was the Retailers leaving because a policy, instead of rallying more people to get involved in Outdoor Recreation and swaying public opinion. So I stand by my statement that I think they are going about this the wrong way, and yes, they are acting childish.
We see many examples of those who wanted to force others to change policy, in attempts at public outcry. Rarely does this tactic succeed. They usually end up kicking the rock down the road while muttering insulting names like Bigots, Racists, Misogynists, Capitalists....
An adult conversation, and compromise, usually yields better results for all.
by your logic there would be no reason for lobbyists, and yet ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Actually, it works all the time. Here's a super recent one:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-env...l-federal-land
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...arry-bill.html
How about Medicaid expansion?
Look at the recent Republican's who voted against the Sec of Education's confirmation. They voted "no" based on "public outcry".
Happens all the time.
That said, even though you hate the outdoors (ha ha), we agree mostly on the Outdoor Retailer boycott. Sad day. They'll be missed.
Its sucks that cooler and more intelligent heads couldn't have prevailed. But, that might be a lot to ask from boths sides (!).
I really think SLC is the best spot in the country for the OR. Same reason as some of us, who have a choice in where we live, choose to live here.
And, you can only saber rattle so much without someone calling the bluff. Leave that seat at the negotiating table...someone will fill it.
Can you imagine if SHOT came here? But, they're dug into Vegas.
I feel bad for the local mom-and-pop industry folks who won't be able to afford to attend a show somewhere else. Or, local reps. Local buyers. Dirtbags (ha ha). Local 503c's. I think the local industry benefited a lot more than people know. And, local businesses.
At a time when the industry is pretty healthy and has some growth. Bummer.
Oh well.
Would you hold a snowboarders convention at Alta? A coal mining convention in Boulder Colorado?Quote:
So I stand by my statement that I think they are going about this the wrong way, and yes, they are acting childish.
We see many examples of those who wanted to force others to change policy, in attempts at public outcry. Rarely does this tactic succeed.
People typically hold conventions in places that share their values (well other than the Baptists Conventions), whatever those values are. The Outdoor Retailer Show is no different. Regardless of your values, why hold a convention at a place hostile to your values?
The sad part I see is that moving the Retailer Show outside Salt Lake City is going to hurt a lot of people who did share their values.
As Brian points out, the method does succeed. Money talks. Sadly, sometimes it's actually the only method that works. I guarantee that they wouldn't have even gotten an audience with the governor if there were no threat of leaving.
Excellent point! Instead of hanging around and working get folks in the state on their side, they're taking the ball and hauling ass to another state, giving the middle finger to everyone in Utah in the process. They're actually giving up and letting those that they oppose win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Somebody in the industry got really pissed and infected everyone else. Snark and snipe about Republican this or Democrat that isn't going to fix a damn thing.
No, they hold conventions where the customers are. (Well, the smart ones anyways) This is why they were here in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott P
Abandoning a large portion of your customer base usually isn't a smart business strategy.
For me, I couldn't care less if they stay or go, but I'll start purchasing from companies that put customer needs first, and personal political opinions last.
They'll catch on sooner or later.