Ice, I agree with you. If that website is true, and they are guiding in the FF, sounds like they need to be notified that they are doing things illegally. (unless things have changed with the park...?)
Ice, I agree with you. If that website is true, and they are guiding in the FF, sounds like they need to be notified that they are doing things illegally. (unless things have changed with the park...?)
FWIW: Commercial Tours are allowed to operate inside Arches, but that is a bit different. That's the big van that picks you up at your hotel and takes you to Delicate Arch and the Windows. Tours have always been allowed. Wingate Adventures is on the list for approved commercial tours, which means they could pick you up at your hotel and hand hold you to the parking lot and get you on the ranger tour.
I signed up for a full day at land before time...Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Where is land before time located?Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster High man
Behind the Rocks, just south of Moab and on the east side of the Colorado.Quote:
Where is land before time located?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster High man
Is Windgate Adventures legit?... Has anyone else heard of them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott P
I assume Wingate Adventures is legit as they are listed with the Moab Chamber of Commerce. I don't know anything about them.
The only Moab guide service I have any experience with is Desert Highlights. I have canyoneered with the owner Matt and I highly recommend them. I believe they are also Moabs first and oldest canyon guide service.
I am also unfamiliar with the company, but they do get good reviews:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...Moab_Utah.html
I see commercial vans in the parking lot all the time. As I understand they do guided hikes in the furnace. They are there when not another vehicle is around. I do not think they are going with the Rangers?
I just called the back country desk at Arches. They have a permit to guide privately.
I believe they are legit. I am not sure about the furnace but I am a conservation biologist as a hobby and definitely don't want to be disturbing protected soil or anything like that. Which I am assuming is why its closed? I also don't wanna be making waves for the guy. Judging by the reviews he has plenty of reverence for the ecosystem in the region.Quote:
Originally Posted by moab mark
This trip is me and my son's "Big Adventure"... We have planned for a long time, my cousin was supposed to join us but fell ill and unable to go. We just want to make the most of it. I am hoping to instill some interest in my son (Zayne) for the outdoors and our ever diminishing wild places. He already loves hiking and backpacking with me so the task should be easy with the beauty Utah has to offer!
We're not knocking Wingate I'm sure they're legit. There is a lot of history about commercial guiding in Arches. Guides use to be able to take you Canyoneering in the Park. They all lost their permits a few years ago. That's why we're all shocked they are able to take you thru the Furnace.
I see.
PS, why do you have that user name?
Ha... I admit that I was trying to be cleverly inappropriate. I'm not a perv or a womanizer. I thought it was funny and didn't expect to offend anyone. Now I cant figure out how to change it. Bottom line though, regardless of my screen name, "Slot Machine" has no right to put me down as a parent! Then to cold shoulder a newbie on valuable possibly "life saving" information based on a screen name (as dumb as it may be). Defeats everything I think forums like this are about. Or are only people who morally agree with each other allowed to enjoy our wilderness areas safely? I for one encourage everyone to see the value of such places. Even other immature crude humored freaks like me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott P
gigity gigity
Your fascination with me is creepy. Man, I don’t even think about you.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxnitsuaxx
The last time I DID think about you, I was laughing my guts out.... I remember @ratagonia extinguishing your own celebratory cigar on your forehead, after you spent some time publicly making out with your Chacos then blowing smoke up your own ass.
How can you show your face after this level of burn? -
http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...06-Which-shoesQuote:
Originally Posted by ratagonia
But thanks for thinkin' of me and stopping by! :lol8: :2thumbs:
Hey Hymen, if I crapped in a forum that you like, I'd expect you to get after me. Keep the crapping to a minimum. That's all I'm sayin. Once you post a bunch of good content, then you can walk around in your underwear. Can't do that on your first day. Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster High man
I like that you can take a punch. And that you have a sense of humor.
Contact accadacca or sombeech and they can change your screen name.
One word of caution...I find the maps on Climb-Utah low resolution if you want to navigate with them in a hard terrain. I use CalTopo.com (free) to regenerate those maps for higher resolution / scale. If you use a GPS, then should be ok. Having said that...I LOVE Climb-Utah and it has a lot to offer besides map. I subscribe every year even if I don't need it, just as an appreciation to the work Shane have done thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Buster High man
Yeah? Well how about; Slot Buster, Richard Driver, or Mr Phister?... just kidding ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Slot Machine
[QUOTE=Slot Machine;567157]Your fascination with me is creepy. Man, I don
I think I am all stocked up on gear now for our trip... helmets, harnesses, rope, pull rope, webbing, piranha, ATC big air xp, fiddlestick, biners, prusik stuff, bags, shoes, appropriate clothes, camera... odds and ends... anything of notable value I'm missing?... Ohh and water, maps, compass
Maybe a couple three shoulder length slings with biners to match. A tether per person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster High man
Fiddlestick? Hmmm. Not sure I'd recommend that item for your kit.
I appreciate your advice, and I am curious if you are making this recommendation because I am a "newb"... I just want to say that I completely understand. I also have to say, (and this may not help me any) that I work as an industrial maintenance tech. Everyday I make life or death decisions that involve double and triple safety checks. This includes fall protection, high voltage electricity, stored energy hazards, etc... I know it probably looks like nonsense words on the screen to you but... in reality its not. A mistake = death or amputation. Further I am in a profession where not so common common sense has put me in a lead position. Now I know these are totally unrelated but I have heard it expressed many times that canyoneering is not a dangerous sport when done slowly and methodically. I am not looking to jumping in to a 4C III RX I am trying to start it slow and be smart. I have a guided tour to do our first time and from there I feel confident to ease into this sport. I bought the gear for a reason, to be safe and efficient and not disturb the beauty of this magnificent place we are going! I practiced non stop since the beginning of making the plans for this trip. I'm ready for my last training session (the guided tour)... I have been eating sleeping and breathing nothing but this trip for 3 months. Caution comes second nature to me. I also can say that my trip is May 28-June 2 any experienced canyoneers want to join us and make sure I don't have any bad habits you are welcome to. I'll guarantee you that you'll never meet a more appreciative student! And when we are done I'll buy dinner and the cold beer!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
Ohh and did I mention that I have a strong back for carrying gear! ;)
I wouldn't recommend a fiddlestick to some of advanced abilities/experienced either. Just not a fan of it. Still can't get my head around retailers selling it.
Also not a fan of your pull cord and rappelling single strand either, but, folks follow what the cool kids are doing. Kinda wonder if the SRT rappelling is more responsible for the rope grooves seen on all the popular canyons in Zion...dunno.... Two ropes tied together with a "euro death knot" don't seem as likely to get stuck versus the bulky biner block/pull cord combo, IMHO (and, as seen recently in Zion). Not as much margin if something happens to your single rappel rope.
So, I'd recommend two rappel ropes and no pull cord. But, I'm probably not in the majority.
Cheers.
Thanks for the advice I'll take in all I can and use my best judgment when the time comes... I just want to be as safe and efficient as possible... though it seems one sacrifices to the otherQuote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
As someone who is a fan of the fiddlestick, I would say its a great tool to learn to use and certainly has its uses, although as a beginner you are unlikely to find a need for it in any of the canyons you will be visiting. Take it with since its light and small, play around with setting it up and see how it interacts with the environment, but then put it back in the pack and rappel without it.
It sounds like you are a methodical and careful person, but there's no reason to rush into the advanced techniques especially when they won't be needed where you're going. Why complicate things and add in another possible point of failure when you're just starting out?
andQuote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
But Shirley the fiddlestick (and other similar devices) reduce rope grooves? Perhaps I'm confused by your post, Brian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
I don't know that term so perhaps my responses above are not relevant, but upon review, I'll post anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
(My snips of Brian's post at the "..." points)
Rob (very inexperienced canyoneer; just curious)
SRT = Single Rope Technique = rappel rope, biner block and pull chord.
Maybe it is a ignorant "newbie" way of thinking, but I didn't buy this gear to leave Junking up the scenery. I intend to try and retrieve as much as often as possible. Now I assume there will be times when webbing will have to be left behind for cleaner/smoother rope pulls. For the most part though I don't want to leave gear behind! I guess take each situation as it comes?
Not leaving gear behind is a very admirable desire, and the FS definitely helps with that, however in most beginner and even intermediate level canyons the anchors will already be there since a lot of canyoneers either don't know or don't feel comfortable with ghosting techniques.
You are going to be doing trade routes, which will already have well established anchors. It is important that you inspect the anchors and replace anything you find fault with, but removing or relocating trade route anchors would be frowned upon.
Until you begin doing explorations or advanced routes you can leave the fiddle stick at home, and even when you begin doing explorations or advanced canyons a fiddle stick is not my preferred or go-to tool.
Trade Route Canyons: tend to have anchors in place. Not always in the best place, and often poorly rigged. Often many many slings, all but one of which can and should be removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
If the anchor you come to makes no sense or seems in a bad place, please consider quite a few reasons for it to be where it is. Perhaps there is water to avoid. Perhaps ... lots of things, but one reason anchors are in places is because people made poor choices. In any case, it is ALWAYS up to YOU to assure that the anchor for YOUR party is 100%. And best if what you leave behind is as good as possible, and as clean as possible. Trade Route Canyons are a good place to accumulate a collection of circus-colored webbing. Collect one of EACH color!
Some people find the FiddleStick a useful tool, and some people don't.
Tom :moses:
Buster High Man :roll:
This is your first time out, and it is with a 9 yr old. Do not take each situation as it comes. Plan meticulously and know what you are doing every step of the way as best you can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster High man
Don’t worry about ghosting. Don’t worry about leaving ANY trace. There is ZERO reason for you to be using a fiddlestick. Go have some fun with your son and worry about ghosting canyons for another time. Iceaxe had some great recommendations.
If you really want to play around with a fiddlestick, fine. Do like Tommy said and experiment with it then put it away and rappel safely.
I hope you and your son have shit tons of fun.
// ************************************************** ****************
// ignore if you like
Now... god damn I hate being this preachy, but……the username, it super sucks. And keep in mind this is the rowdier of the canyoneering forums.
I’m sure that in some universe it is perfectly reasonable for a person to use ‘Buster High Man’ as a screen name on a site such as this, that does not include a sub-forum of porn featuring 15 yr olds, to not be presumed a total dickbag. This is not that universe, and this is not rapeymcdickbagsdocanyoneering.com, yet here you are. Buster High Man. Gigantic dickbag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster High man
Your posts, however, seem to say you are not a gigantic dickbag. :ne_nau: You should change your username. Now get off my lawn.
All of those suck, and yet even then, you chose ‘Buster High Man’. What might I presume?Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster High man
**** me that made me feel old. Also, didn't I tell you to get off my lawn?
While I agree noobs have a bad habit of adding more webbing as a feeling of security the trade routes tend to have responsibly well placed anchors.Quote:
Originally Posted by ratagonia
I mean seriously....., when I do Pine Creek, Mystery, Dragon Fly, U-turn, etc I certainly don't consider the anchors poorly placed. In my experience the trade routes see enough skilled canyoneers traversing the routes that the anchors tend to be well placed. The main problems seem to appear when noobs rebuild the anchors and fail to extend the rappel rings over the edge. YMMV
I hit up "sombeech" about changing it so... idk... ?... I am surprised that this many of you care... I am extremely grateful for your advice though... wish I could pick all your brains!... Thanks again!Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute Gravity
I have no problem with you username, but than again, i wasn't raised as a whiny candyass pussy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster High man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r14rozZDzrMQuote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe