What was I thinking? Only Google makes money off of Youtube.:haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
Ken
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What was I thinking? Only Google makes money off of Youtube.:haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
Ken
On a side-note: Which is why Viacom is suing google over it. The more views the more money. And typically the more views, the more controversial the subject matter IE tv shows, movie clips, etc, music that isn't licensed. Making a profit off a copyrighted material is viacom's beef.Quote:
Originally Posted by spinesnaper
Sure google will give the "of course we will remove the copyrighted material" but with a wink wink nudge nudge.
For what it's worth, none of us are making money off of it. Devin is running ads on the BTS video but not on the actual swing video. He's definitely going to get a lot of exposure out of the video and that's going to bring him jobs but he's not really bringing in much from the video being on Youtube. My friends and I did the video for fun. I got to watch my 57 year old mom and my Supreme Court clerk law professor jump off the arch and then I got to propose underneath it. That's all the payment I needed.
Well, sounds like he's bringin' in something...Quote:
Originally Posted by xxnitsuaxx
Commercial use permit? Hmmm....Quote:
Salt Lake City filmmaker Devin Graham makes many kinds of YouTube videos for a living, including the one of a giant rope swing off of Corona Arch, near Moab.
I have friends fightin' with the forest service on having a signle photo published in a calender...can't imagine how to defend someone who's gettin' paid for a video that has over 5 million hits...
Here is an article on making money on Youtube with original content:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/11/bu...11youtube.html
Please do not take that to mean that I begrudge anyone from doing that. (It is just that I wish I could figure out how to do it!)
Ken
Your mom rocks!Quote:
Originally Posted by xxnitsuaxx
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
Sounds like "Commercial Use" to me! Certainly in a National Park jurisdiction it would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxnitsuaxx
The vehemence of SITLA land managers may be considerably less.
T
It's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission...
The video rocks :2thumbs:
I hope the creators of the video make a million dollars off of it and give the finger to the wannabes and nay-sayers on there way to the bank.
Carry on....
Demonizing the concept because of monetary gain? :roll:
If the video just didn't take off and got less than 1,000 hits, everybody'd be cool with it and the main focus would go back to how much damage was done to the arch.
If some teens had their cell phone video rolling at ZionS National Park Lodge filming their friend, somehow trips on a curb and lands a funny face plant... the video goes viral, they make money with google ads.... They would be making money from footage filmed in a National Park. You could argue that their intention wasn't for "Commercial Use" but I know plenty of teens who think every time they film their friends getting hit in the crotch, it's going viral.
This results from this video were hoped for, maybe even expected. But had the video flopped, making virtually nothing, the producers wouldn't be so demonized for "intending to make profit" because it failed. So it's only after a success that it's really frowned upon, right?
Any port in the storm...kinda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
The video is great. And...that's the problem. Just like 127 hours was a fairly decent film. Its like moths to the flame.
Its a bit of a "nimby" effect, to be sure.
This genie might be hard to put back in the bottle. The shine will come off the apple in a while...and it'll be yesterdays fad.
Wow! Certainly no objection here about you becoming millionaires! No objection here about doing the cool arch swing! Only a bit of concern as to where it all leads? Attention grabbers like this generally lead to negative repercussions (or maybe not;disneyland theme park in Moab?). As I stated in a previous post; 3 separate folks have inquired into buying the proper equipment so that they could drive over and "do" the swing?! Thats just here in small populace SG. The inevitability of many folks heading out to attempt this swing seems quite real? Will restrictions, regulations or denial of the public right to do this follow? Could have keeping it hush-hush insured that it would continue as normal? The internet sure does popularize cool things in a hurry. Whatever happens; it looks like a good time was had by all and good LUCK in future endeavours!
For those that are curious, here are the cameras that were used to film the Corona Arch Swing:
A Canon 5D Mark II
Canon 7D
Canon 60D
IPhone 4S (for one of the shots)
GoPro HD 1 cameras
Epic Red One camera (for a couple shots)
Bob
I just saw some facebook photos from some people I know, looks like they did another swing on it this last Sunday
Interesting update:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55...orona.html.csp
Good. That didn't take long. I'm glad they got shut down. I hate the commercialization of stuff like that. It's only a matter of time before someone ruins it for the rest of us...
Closed only to paid guide services? Sounds like it's left pretty much wide open.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
I also noticed the arch is about to become BLM property.
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
Looks like the inevitable has happened. Sad to hear.
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=24533690&nid...&s_cid=queue-2
X2Quote:
Originally Posted by JTMiller
Not to sound unfeeling, but I'm surprised that it took so long. Some of the questions I've gotten\videos I've seen made me think that this would happen WAY sooner.
Ah that's too bad. People will rush to blame the original video though, but not realize the amount of planning that went into the safety precautions. To hear that the rope was too long makes me wonder what kind of precautions were made at all.
Exactly. Of all the things you've got control over, the rope length is the easiest to check.
West Jordan man killed on Corona Arch rope swing
MOAB
Shane or any moderator. There are already at least two threads (one is on general) on the accident. Should they be combined into one thread so it's easier to follow?
Just a wild guess after hearing the news.... but... I'm guessing they miss calculated the amount of stretch in their dynamic climbing ropes. Because I'm thinking you at least toss a loaded backpack from the arch before hooking up living victims to at least test the pendulum of your swing. And anther thought.... maybe they should not have stopped the paid guide service, at least we know they had the fundamentals of setting up the swing covered.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxnitsuaxx
:popcorn:
Petzl (who is the manufacturer of the equipment) post on the activity (before the accident):
https://www.facebook.com/Petzl/posts/231277850298280
Besides the original post, see the comments made by Petzl in the thread as well after Petzl "looked carefully at the setup":Quote:
We noticed this recent and very popular video. We would like to express our fear of accidents with this activity, if you look closely there is numerous points of friction of the ropes on the rock, which could lead to damage on the ropes and potential rupture. This is not a good example of a safe rigging and safe behavior.
Quote:
Yes we have looked carefully at the set up and at 0:35 the rope does not seem protected when it touches the rock under the bridge, pls check at 0:40 sec where we clearly see the ropes dragging on the rock at the beginning of the swing, thats what we don't like. Check this page with at the bottom a video of breaking test on fixed rope under tension : http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/prod...g/introduction.
thx for your participation.
My (expanded)post on the other thread (which has now been locked):
Condolences to the friends and family. I will not judge and have much sympathy about the accident, but I do know that many of us wondered how long it would take before this happened (which isn't to say that we've all done dangerous things at times as well).
Before the accident, some gear manufacturers came out with statements that the swing is not a proper or intended use of their products and suggested not using them in that manner. Reports I've heard/read from people are that the rope swings have caused significant damage to the arch as well.
Also, I know with Delicate Arch, the NPS (this is not NPS land obviously) asks hikers visiting the arch to not "hog" the arch or spend long times hanging around next to/under it so others can get photos of the arch without all the people in them (or to get a photo of the arch with them in the photo). Given the popularity of Corona Arch, I would think that this should fall into the same category. If you do activities like this, it's best to do them at a place that isn't a major tourist attraction, where up to dozens of people can be waiting just to get a good photo of the arch.
RIP. My thoughts and prayers are with all those affected.
Scott - I actually got into a fight with Petzl on that thread. Their big concern (as you noted) was friction between the arch and the rope. They didn't notice (even after their "careful" examination) that we used a hard rubber tube as a rope protector and that there wasn't any risk from the friction. They actually admitted that the statement you posted above was wrong, but by that point the "Petzl thinks this is unsafe" meme had started and there was no stopping it.
And as far as the "significant damage"...you're obviously free to draw your own conclusions about what constitutes "significant damage", but the arch doesn't look any different after the swings than it did after years of people rappelling from it. I'm not sure how we decide that the damage from rope pulls in canyons is acceptable but that the damage from rappelling\swinging on arches isn't.
Quote:
And as far as the "significant damage"...you're obviously free to draw your own conclusions about what constitutes "significant damage", but the arch doesn't look any different after the swings than it did after years of people rappelling from it.
I haven't been up there to see any damage myself; just quoting what others have said. My statement was that Reports I've heard/read from people are that the rope swings have caused significant damage to the arch as well. There are several of those floating around, including from the BLM and mentioned in the article comments as well. As mentioned, this is second hand information. Plus, you are not the only ones who have been swinging off the arch. Good point on possible damage from rope pulls though (and yes it does exist along several routes).
Even if there was a way to make it 100% safe, my opinion is that because of the visibility/tourist attraction of the place, Corona Arch isn't a good place for such activities. I'd say the same thing about setting up a bake sale right under the arch, or having a long big group picnic under the arch. It may be legal, but it does hog the arch for those who want to enjoy it in other ways. In a more remote area, or if no one else was around, or if the time spent doing it would take less than a few minutes, my opinion would be different on this. Of course, opinions may vary.
No opinion formed or expressed, but I'm fairly confident the group I watched swing last weekend added at least something to the grooves when they pulled their backpack up after every jump. I'm sure different groups do things different ways. It didn't appear that the swinging itself was adding much.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxnitsuaxx
No matter the cause I was sad to see the amount of scarring, though it seemed to be pretty limited to the 'back' (less photographed) side, for whatever that is worth. And even sadder to hear about the young kid yesterday.
That's a fair point. Corona is a popular destination and I think there's a legitimate discussion to be had as to whether or not it's fair to "hog" it. We considered that before we ever shot the video. Ultimately, we decided that Moab has so many options for solitude and that Corona, with its short approach and high popularity, wasn't really a spot that one could expect to be alone. People may disagree with our decision, but it's something that we at least thought about.
And...for what it's worth - everyone we talked to while we were jumping really enjoyed watching us. I'm sure that others had different experiences, but we didn't find anyone who seemed upset at our presence. We even had some bystanders jump the arch with us.
I found the same. The tourists (myself included) love it. A nature photographer at sunset, maybe not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxnitsuaxx
Unfortunately, the height of the arch, the swing itself and the amount of freefall have been grossly exaggerated by many, including a guide service offering the swing. I've heard it's as much as a 150' swing. The fact is the swing is well short of 100' (we rig it around 85'+/-) . Whether or not the deceased relied on these bogus claims, it's still hard to imagine simply jumping without verifying the length personally. My condolences...
Half the stories I read show it at 250'. It's unbelievable how inaccurate most media reports are.Quote:
Originally Posted by moabmatt
I'm equally not sure, but it's good to have a discussion, eh? One difference between such arch-play as it's currently practiced (i.e. purty close to roads) and canyoneering is that temporarily protecting one anchor sling path on an arch is relatively easy compared to protecting every drop in a canyon. Another is the arch rope groove audience is often a larger slice of the general population than simply canyoneers.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxnitsuaxx
So, not protecting an arch has greater consequences and - since it's easier to protect an arch - is less forgivable than not protecting canyon raps. Protecting arches should have a (slightly?) higher priority than protecting canyons from rope grooves. Though in an ideal world, they should have equal priority.
Absolutely. We discussed the ethics of creating the swing before we ever did it and we felt ok about it. That being said, there are some ethical counter-arguments (as you just brought up) and I'm open to being persuaded.Quote:
Originally Posted by hank moon
It's unfortunate that your group was falsely accused of damaging the rock so immediately, that this first impression of your irresponsibility can never be undone even after multiple times of explaining how this was not the case and having the footage to prove it.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxnitsuaxx
Some of those making the false accusations, rather than issuing a full apology for their knee jerk reactions, have turned more towards the backpedalling of "oh, we mean it's a good idea in general to be safe".
Too bad, you guys really did take the precautions, considered the environment preservation, even the potential "hogging" of the arch, and deserve every bit of success that the project has brought. It's the copycats who are sometimes not as safe with themselves nor with the environment, but yet your group gets the blame for their lack of integrity.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Poor environMENTALISTS :haha: It's those knee-jerk reactions that get you all the time, but not as bad as the well planned reactions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Just to be clear, the stuff I said earlier was about the relative "acceptability" of canyon rope grooves vs. arch swing rope grooves. Not about the overall ethics of setting up an arch swing. I think it's cool that you guys did it and had a blast. You can't beat fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by xxnitsuaxx
hank