That would imply JP has feelings. IQuote:
Originally Posted by Randi
Printable View
That would imply JP has feelings. IQuote:
Originally Posted by Randi
Look at the pot calling the kettle black :roflol: :roflol: :roflol:Quote:
Originally Posted by James_B_Wads2000
No clue, :lol8: nice try.
Backpedaling? Where? It's a selfish act and I don't condone it Jimmy. And if you have followed posts in the past, both Last Child and Blue have indicated they had some personal knowledge/experience of it before this latest thread. I pay attention to things. So, I already knew before this thread. Not the first time I have seen it here in this forum, unlike yourself. The only time I see it being somewhat acceptable is in the event a person's quality of life has diminished. If someone decides to take their own life, so be it. It was a decision that they justified in their head and when they justify it, it is nearly impossible for anyone but themselves to change that position on it.
Oh Jimmy, I have feelings for people, but not for you :lol8:
Wow, I am flabbergasted by some of the response to this topic. Great empathy and compassion abounds on this forum doesnt it? First of all, the majority of people attempting suicide are not really wanting to die, they are wanting help and this is a last cry for it. Subsequently, if they get that help, get into therapy, get on some meds, etc. they can learn to deal with whatever is putting them over the emotional edge and live fulfilling lives. Second, probably most of the people attempting suicide are mentally ill. That means they are probably not making a completely cognitive, conscious choice, so is that their fault?
I find it disturbing that this person's life is viewed so inconsequential by a few of you ("stupid emo") that you are totally oK that he is DEAD and that it doesnt seem to bother you that there are people in the world who would FREAKING TAUNT the guy into jumping! It was his decision? The crowd didnt have anything to do with it? Are you kidding me? Here is a YOUNG guy standing up there for THREE hours contemplating killing himself. I'm guessing he is, way down deep, wishing someone would save him from his pathetic little life, and yet... wait.... here is a crowd confirming everything that he's been thinking about himself - that he is worthless, that he is better off dead, that NOBODY CARES. You mean to tell me that this crowd had absolutely no influence on this boy??
Dear God, help us all.
Oh yea, the moronic bystanders are just that, moronic. It was his decision for whatever reason it was his, the crowd didn't lead him to that roof, it was in his mind before he took that first step in the stairway that led to the roof. There was no crowd there, he brought the crowd there by his actions. Did he go there with the intent to have the public vote on what he was about to do? I would think not, in general I believe the public wouldn't want him to jump. Blows my mind that people stood there told him to. Something tells me this article was blown a little out of proportion to make it a little more newsworthy, just like it has accomplished. Sure they were moronic and taking pictures after the fact shows you just how much they were. But, did they lead him to the ledge, did they block his safe way out, did they physically push him? On top of all it, the police were trying to talk him out of it. They were not the bunch of moron's below egging the kid on, these were people who didn't want to see this kid do what he did. They tried for hours, I bet the cops were trying in vein long before any gathering belligerent crowd. It was a mindset. You and I cannot answer if the "taunting" crowd had "anything to do with it." You and I can only assume. What is known, is that he walked onto the roof with the intention on doing what he did. So, take away the crowd, take away the police, would he have jumped? He did walk out on that roof to do just that. We don't know what demons were in his head, we don't know if he was mentally ill, we don't know why and may never know. Even if we knew, it doesn't mean we would understand how bad things were, because everybody handles things differently. I believe there were some issues there, long before he stood above a crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeHugger
Gee, I've had quite a few friends and acquaintances kill themselves, many with seemingly good lives (from the outside, of course). It was really sad to stand in front of their caskets (when applicable), attempting to make peace or wish them farewell. It's even worse to see the hoards of friendships cut short and the families suffering through the aftermath.
Who knows why people ultimately decide to do this?
Yes, it's selfish and it leaves nothing but loose ends behind.
Of course, I can't let my former relationship to someone cloud my ability to see the absolutely RIDICULOUS decision that they made in the end.
Everybody has to deal with the harsh realities of life and everyone has to overcome them to survive. If they can't deal with it and cut themselves off, it's their own shortcoming, their own weakness. "Help" is practically thrown at these people from birth, nowadays.
The blame does ultimately come down to the person taking their life.
So what if the crowd yelled "jump" or "just get on with it" or whatever? How long had the "jumper situation" shut down the productivity of that area? 3 hours? By then, I'm sure there would be plenty of people getting impatient and wanting to continue their lives, regardless of the outcome. Of course, standing there and watching is a choice of its own (I probably couldn't watch, myself). The jumper didn't make those people watch, necessarily.
Yes, I think it's selfish and STUPID! Life can't possibly get any better if it's gone!
If I believed that the taunting crowd could "make" the jumper do it, and I had a close relationship with someone else that "did it", then I suppose I would have to place some of that blame on myself, right? (Ouch!)
No thanks. People write their own checks. Nobody pushed him.
I too would be annoyed by the traffic jam. It doesn't make me heartless. It makes me late for something and that shouldn't be happening.
Yes, I care about other people and the way I affect their lives. The fact remains that if they kill themselves, no matter what kind of person I was to them, they still killed themselves.
It's a shitty ending, any way you look at it. Everyone should give themselves another chance.
The taunting crowd was probably calling Dude's bluff. Standing there for 3 hours would bring the doubts. Seriously. I'm not saying that the taunting didn't encourage the outcome, but they still didn't push him.
Taking pictures afterward is just morbid, but whaddaya do? The shock can do that, I guess. If I were witnessing something and I had a camera...
So you've got a young guy who is emotionally bankrupt and mentally unstable, hearing some cops try to talk him down and a mob talk him off. Which voices are going to resonate louder? Which voices support and encourage his deranged thinking? Yes, I suppose that what he did was ultimately his decision, but I cannot support this idea that the crowd was of no influence.
Let's go back to what I think the original post might have been designed to look at: The disturbing state of our society these days that people actually believe it is OK to encourage someone to KILL THEMSELVES. That kid was someone's son. Where does that mentality come from? I find it disgusting and frightening.
Like I said before, that part blew my mind. I again wonder how much of it was blown out of proportion by the press? I can see one or two individuals in the crowd yelling stuff, but an entire crowd?Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeHugger
Like I said. Dude held up the line for 3 hours. People just wanted the situation to end, I would think. By then, they didn't expect Sadboy to actually do it.
Well, he sure showed them!
Dumbass.
:roll:
I'm sure they did, but in a nice way :nod: When everybody goes home. :nod:Quote:
Originally Posted by LOAH
That's what I meant...
...They were calling his bluff at that point (speculating).
And the pics of the aftermath?Quote:
Originally Posted by LOAH
I can see a couple of wise@$$'s in the crowd, but the crowd in general was probably pretty shocked to see something like that unfold right before their eyes. It's pretty shocking to people that never witnessed something like that before. It's something that most people would never witness in a lifetime.
This resonates strongly with me as well for my own personal reasons that I will not air in here but, and this is stricktly my opinion, I really feel that with many of these bystanders this experience will haunt them for the rest of their lives. It should. I would rather have compassion for this kid and step up and at least MAKE the attempt at helping him than let it ' go on record' that I was one that stood by and egged it on. I would like to think that I had more integrity than that. Or at least a love for my fellow man. I refuse to argue with any of you over this. Say what you will about me...this is what I stand for.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to help. I like the way you put that.
I would like to think that I would also want to help, if the opportunity presented itself.
As a bystander from the ground, however, I wouldn't be in that position. I would only be in the position of witnessing something horrible (someone dying) and absurd at the same time (someone dying because they killed themself).
I stated previously that I don't think I could watch.
I'm surprised there was no one on the ground that would smack those idiots in the face, police included.
I agree. If anyone deserves a good ass whooping, it's those "people". I've seen a lot of stuff in my time that I would prefer to forget, but I just can't wrap my head around the mentality of enjoying the death of someone that certainly didn't deserve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KapitanSparrow
Interesting responses. I'm probably the extreme end of the spectrum. I've no pity for a loser that takes his life. The family that has to deal with the mess left behind, hell ya I feel bad for them. I'm not saying I would have jeered him on, but society has a fascination with death. So I can understand people wanting to see him splat. If it was guaranteed that he wasn't going to jump, no crowd would be around to watch right? Obviously he's up there having a pity party for himself so I can understand the "piss of get off the pot" mentality. It's not a reflection on how society has degraded like you guys are making it out to be. NASCAR highlights are of the crashes, why do you think that is? And people are surprised/shocked that there were pictures taken of the incident? LOL!
Look there are hundreds of places you can get help. Everyone has problems and needs help once in awhile. But it's your job to recognize that and act appropriately. You cant be a spoiled little brat demanding attention on a rooftop. That inexcusable. You are the judge of your life and if you feel it's not worth living, I support your decision. The world is overpopulated, and human life isn't as important as everyone makes it out to be. Good people are dying of cancer, disease, accidents, etc. They WANT to live and are being denied that right. That is a tragedy! Some loser who probably has a couple minor problems and wont get help freely available just isn't worth my pity. Does it even matter what his problems are? No it does not. Whatever they are, they are beyond his ability to deal with and he obviously doesn't want help from normal outlets. So now we are supposed to cater to him on a rooftop and talk him down? When did we become such weak minded individuals? It's like a perfectly able bodied person saying "I'm hungry". Then we respond "there is food on the table 10 feet from you". He then responds, "naw I don't want it". So he goes about his day using the restroom, cleaning the house, but doesn't eat the friggin food on the table. Well 2 weeks later the guy is starving and we applaud someone grabbing the food off the table and walking the ten feet and spoon feeding him. I call those "enablers". They enable the weak to function in our society and make us weaker in the process
Now there is one area where I feel bad regarding suicide. Soldiers... I think they see and do things no human should ever have to do and become less than human. Maybe killing machines? I'm not sure what terminology to use really. But we basically brainwash them to follow orders and not think. But I think not enough is done to re-integrate them into society after they are done. They have seen and had to do shit no human should be forced to do, and the stresses they have endured are absolutely insane. Then we drop them off the boat and expect them to just go back to a regular life like nothing ever happened? BS! I think more attention needs to made in that regard, and truly feel bad for them. Maybe like a once a month manditory meeting with a counselor to checkup on their mental health. Talk about the struggles they are having regarding civilian life, stuff like that. We can't ask them to sacrifice so much and then discard them like a piece of trash.
Bring it on hippies!
...hold on I need to fix my reply, I miss read some of Cricket's statements...
That's never stopped you before.Quote:
Originally Posted by James_B_Wads2000
:haha:
Just kidding, I was actually hoping you'd reply.
That hurts! :haha: I actully try and read post carefully so I understand what is said. I also try to make a meaningful responses, most of the time, I kid around too. My problem is that I spend too much time thinking about my reply when 90% of the people following the thread don't really read it.
James
What can I say cricket? I mean you are pretty far out there. You say you have no pity for people that commit suicide, except soldiers, because they are too lazy to
Hypocritical, but hey, politically correct. Very nice of you to make that exception to your totally bogus and completely unbelievable view on life. Soldiers have hundreds of places to get help too. Everything you said about that dude on the roof applies to them too. So, if the guy on the roof was in jeans and a TShirt causing a traffic jam wanting to kill himself, would you still encourage him to jump? Ya know, it's hard to tell about a person in jeans and a t-shirt: He MIGHT BE A SOLDIER. Or is it just that you have a thing about goth-y lookin' people, they obviously are worthless pieces of crap and might as well just die.Quote:
Originally Posted by deathcricket
Oh yeah, and what about the horrors that young guy may have faced - YOU DONT KNOW what has been going on in his life. Perhaps he's been sexually assaulted since he was 4 years old, maybe he's had to watch his sister get sexually assaulted, maybe he's been the family punching bag, or locked up in a basement and fed $hit for 5 years... YOU DONT KNOW. And like James said, mental illness distorts your ability to see things clearly AND get help. YOU DONT KNOW.
ANd what the hell does mean or imply? What on freakin' earth do HIPPIES have to do with anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by deathcricket
Well I would agree (with you) that a person's problems are all a matter of perception. And a person committing suicide perceives small problems in their life to be major problems that are insurmountable.
In my mind living with the fact that it was your duty to blow a guys brains out because your country asks you too is vastly different than any possible problem a normal human can face. I also think that soldiers who live in a military situation being told what to do, think, eat, and sleep, would cause trauma once that is taken away. I think soldiers are naturally self reliant and bite off "more than they can chew" and it ends up dominating them. granted I'm not in their shoes but suspect this is the case. I just know it would haunt me for all my days if this was forced upon me. But its a clear difference at least in my mind, than "I lost my job, girlfriend, son, etc". Which brings me to my next point.Quote:
Does that mean that the soldiers are too lazy too?
[quote]When your next door neighbor comes over and kills your wife and kid, I
I think he's probably elluding to the fact that hippes are all about "love and peace and understanding".Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeHugger
Sadly, it looks like quite a few of you here on Bogley, and at least a handful of those "on-lookers" to this tragedy, adhere to the above philosophy. ItQuote:
Originally Posted by deathcricket
First, you need to work on your reading comprehension skills to be able to argue effectively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeHugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathcricket
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeHugger
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathcricket
So we don't know WHAT his problems are, yet you feel qualified to make decisions in his best interests? Sounds almost "god-like" to me, I'm impressed.
:2thumbs:
Oh, the hippies remark... ya know.. peace love understanding.. pity for the weak...
I just think there should be no room for disagreement on this topic but apparently there is. In my world, there is and would be total compassion for an individual in that kind of mental pain. Call me the compassionate one. Randi, Tree and a few other peace, loving, hippie, Bogley folks on here summed up everything I could have said and BETTER. :2thumbs:
Jeez Cricket
I had a close friend shoot herself to death in the winter of 1994. She had a lot to offer - a talented nurse, a skilled seamstress, a great musician. She had a lot of hurt, though, and it consumed her. She wasn't a loser, she was just wounded. After she died, her family gave me her diary, and I discovered she had made all the entries out to me; they all began, "Dear Richard."
I don't know how I could have saved her, but I know that if somehow we had saved her, she would have brought something into the world, something meaningful and important. Right now I know someone like her, someone who is hurting and can't find the answer. I hope she knows that she can call me or Abby if it would help. And if she is, one day, on that ledge, I'll try to talk her down.
[quote=Randi]I think he's probably elluding to the fact that hippes are all about "love and peace and understanding".Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeHugger
Sadly, it looks like quite a few of you here on Bogley, and at least a handful of those "on-lookers" to this tragedy, adhere to the above philosophy. ItQuote:
Originally Posted by deathcricket
We are way to polarized for you to understand my position. And clearly I'm pissing people off by speaking it, so will shut up. but just wanted to quote this....
[quote=James_B_Wads2000]
I agree that all things being equal, that the individual is the best one to decide if their life is worth living. But I would say that for the majority of people who are contemplating suicide that all things are not equal. Most are in a mental state where they are not making rational decisions. Maybe it is a cry for help. I would admit that there may be some people that are so far gone that they are determined to die no matter what. But just because they step out on to that roof, I am not going to assume that no part of them wants to be helped.
And that
I can only try to understand your position as it was written. As much as I love to be told I won the argument, I am afraid that you are just letting me win by default. That
Just poking my nose in here once more to say count me in the hippie camp, too.
:hippy:
Hey I didn't know DeathCricket lived in China. :haha:
James
Suicidal man in China gets push off bridge after blocking traffic for hours, survives
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Saturday, May 23rd 2009, 11:16 AM
BEIJING - Chen Fuchao, a man heavily in debt, had been contemplating suicide on a bridge in southern China for hours when a passer-by came up, shook his hand
26 feet doesn't sound nearly far enough for suicide. Would suck to feel so miserable about life that you want to end it and then only end up making it worse by injuring yourself. :ne_nau:
If only this happened in Japan, there would be a video we could watch.
:lol8:
Edit: Wait, I suspect this story is a fake. Don't they have snipers in China who can keep traffic moving along?
As if you didn't know... :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathcricket
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPRM1BfxKL0
James
:roflol: Thanks for the vid! :2thumbs:
:roflol:
Great video!
Sniper at 1 hour instead of pusher at 5 hours would have been better though. I bet a lot of those people stuck in traffic missed dinner and family time.
Edit: After reading the comments on youtube, I have to also ask.. WHERE'S KEYBOARD CAT WHEN YOU NEED HIM?