Mabey put up a poll and see what the response is. It probably won't change your minds but I would be curious as to how many people are for this change.
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Mabey put up a poll and see what the response is. It probably won't change your minds but I would be curious as to how many people are for this change.
How about we just make a UColorado, UArizona, UNevada, UWyoming, etc. :haha:
It will take years and years and years to outweigh the Utah content, if ever. We have 3 years of Utah outdoor content built up on this site. Additionally, as fourtycal mentioned, many/all of these sports are HUGE in Utah, some call Utah home. I would be happy to just get some new users from neighboring states, to see what they have in their backyards. Which is only a few hours drive for me. I love seeing the trip reports that Tanya, Bo, Brewhaha and many others post. :popcorn:
But! You guys bike down here so you visit this area a lot and know it well.
I think this all has to do with the owners being youngsters (liking the new stuff and both are into sells and advertising and trying to stay on top of things) and trying to 'improve' their site. Although I am not for it, the younger generation probably is - and as much as us old timers (not just talking age) don't like it, change happens. Either we keep up or stagnate.
Bottom line... The site belongs to Scott and 'Beech has a big influence. What they say will go. Bogley is a name... something like Yahoo that means nothing, but has room to grow based on it's content. I still think that the title should be something to do with the outdoors and I would like Utah in it, but probably most thought that Yahoo's name should be something like ..... webbased site or something boring.
I understand wanting to expand the site and droppin the uutah will help with the expansion. But after reading all the posts I'm still a little lost at Bogley, couldn't there be a better word. Oh well like Tanya said Bogley may grow on me too as time goes buy. But I will always still refer to it as UUTAH so don't drop that domain name.
By the way love the site. :2thumbs:
Not a fan of the change.
I'm guessing it has more to do with drawing in advertising from a broader base=more money. You guys deserve to make this more than a hobby, just not sure eliminating Utah from the name will accomplish the goal.
I like it :ne_nau:
I post things that are outside of Utah, but still may be of interest to Utah folks, since it's still within driving distance (for example Wyoming caves and slot canyons).
I'm pretty easy to please though.
I think it'll still be mostly Utah focused, at least for some time.
Seriously, what has changed? :ne_nau:
We'll change the uutah.com header to Bogley.com, and we'll rename a few things like UUtah Unplugged to Unplugged.
I think we're getting a little too worried that the Utah demographic will be diluted.
Acca and I are Utahns, and hardly ever travel out of state with exception to the Wind Rivers. Thus, our content will remain relevant to Utah. With an overwhelming majority of Utahns posting, wouldn't it just stay Utah based anyways?
I think we all agree nothing will change immediately... but re-read Acca's mission statement (post #1), thats change. Inviting more out of staters to join, and more threads about destinations outside of Utah, again, thats change. I'm not saying I'll leave just because the option has been opened up, but the draw for me was the focus, a blurred focus is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Here's a thought.
I'm not a Canyoneer, I don't ride Motorcycles, and I have never been a big Sports Fan. I rarely visit these 3 forums, even though they're quite active.
I come here and I stick to the things I enjoy, and I enjoy the community created within those select forums.
If you don't visit the Climbing forum, and there's a climbing link from Argentina, would you even know? I wouldn't. In fact, I haven't been in the Climbing forum for a while, but I notice a lot of activity there.
But if it's a link about a harness from somebody in Uruguay, that topic has no demographic boundaries because it's talking about equipment. Many of our existing topics are not related to a certain area, they discuss skills, equipment, and best practices.
We'd love everybody to at least wait and see how it will be, and I think everybody will be at ease. The only way the "Utah Community" will be diluted is if Utahns leave the forum, not by newcomers.
Well put.Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpUt
As an out of state-er (OK, foreigner) I'm not really keen on the proposed (eventual) changes. I like having a place to come for my Utah jones.
The name just makes me shrug. The little dude just looks like some rock and roll fanboy tried to make up a cutesy gremlin rock and roll fanboy, having nothing to do with anything outdoors. (I know, I know - that's exactly what it is. BTW, are those Wayfarers?)
I understand that you guys are wanting to pimp the site into something more. Hell, if I wasn't over the hill, firmly settled in my middle-class nirvana, and had an entrepreneurial bone in my body, I'd probably be working on some kind of money-making-off-the-internet plan, too.
Honestly, I can't see the niche particularly well. There are geographically localized sites for a broad spectrum of activities (like uutah). There are sites for specialized activities throughout a larger region (SummitPost leaps to mind). But I wonder if the Bogley concept is just a little too nebulous to do well. I mean, I'd be happy to eat those words if things go well, but I do wonder...
So, yeah, I'll sit back and watch and see what happens. I'm not going anywhere - I love the information this site provides (on Utah), and enjoy much of the company. So, like I say, I'll stick around and watch what develops...
Not a fan of the change. I am a canyoneer. I started with Climb-Utah then that went to UUtah. My canyoneering is almost exclusively Utah. It seems to me that the draw of this site is in fact Utah. I am not opposed to out of state stuff being posted but to me, folks wanting to know what Utah outdoors stuff is about will be looking for "Utah". It is just muddy for me. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with making more bucks but I am here because of the Utah stuff. If the TR's start coming in from Tennessee, I must admit, I'm not terribly interested. (Nothing against Tennessee, I just don't have a hankerin' to visit)
There is also something about familiarity that breeds some trust. I understand the skills stuff being universal and I am a fan of a guy from Europe named Koen whom I have never met. He posts occasionally on the Yahoo group and seems to have a ton of really good tips and techniques. I have saved several of his posts. He is known by and canyoneered with folks that I trust. But that may be the exception? I don't know. It is nice to read posts of folks who know the locations and nuances of this State rather that generalities. An example is in discussing pothole escape techniques in the bad boy in Quandary or the nastys in Imlay.
The other reason I have enjoye this UTAH site is that I have kids and I have not entirely given up on hiking, fishing, snowshoeing, and I am about to do some cycling . I want to know about my own back yard.
My time is limited and the less time I spend in weeding the better.
Seems like you are trying to make IN-n-Out burgers into a buffet? For some of us that loses the appeal of the joint.
Once you get a feel for the buffet, It's easy to figure out where your favorite course is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Card
okay ... but it should be clarified that THIS change is NOT for money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxx
it's is about opening up and attracting more members ... more folks passionate about the outdoors and thereby bringing more content to the site.
having grown up in utah, i think it's a great place.
utah is a state (perhaps more appropriately a state of mind), but, geographically speaking, the great outdoors in the west has no political boundaries (though it is clearly affected by them). we often talk about "southern utah," but the colorado plateau is something special and doesn't end at the state borders.
i can understand and respect the views of the "purists," wanting to keep uutah/bogley as a primarily utah-focused and intimate site. and it's good to be able to voice your opinions.
i think the concept of making the site more open makes sense. utah is like the "hub of the west." utah has such great access to all of the states. all of the states in the west are simply incredible, almost as incredible as utah :haha: the sharing of great information between like-minded individuals in the west, i imagine, would be a great thing.
i think this idea is quite open-minded, and ultimately when the software is in place, you'll be able to curtail the posts to utah or whatever. this site will change just as it has in the past year, and past two years, and so on. but i agree this change IS different.
i think there are many out-of-staters who love utah and love other states. in a more open environment they will likely be more interested in posting on utah AND their beloved other places. i imagine great exchanges. more content, more eyecandy, more vicarious living for those stuck at werk! more friends in other places.
i've grown up with the perception of utah as home and where i mainly spend my time, but also with the perception of the west as full of amazing places i want to discover. i love the towering forests of the pacific northwest and the sierras, the mountains across the west are just amazing. northern arizona is an incredible place. british columbia (minus the extensive logging) is simply paradise. oh yeah and that great state to the north ... just spectacular.
i think it'll slowly grow as a site of people who have connections to utah and be a open place to share our adventures.
the west is the best ... and utah is (roughly) the center of it.
If you are expecting a flood of non relevant material to be posted with this name change, you've got different expectations than us.
I'll say this again:
I just did some research, and of our top 300 posters, 52 of them are from outside of Utah.
(unless there are more that don't say so in their profile)
Even this last week there were several statements made that began with "I know this isn't in Utah, but....", when it was a question about Colorado, Nevada, or Arizona.
THIS is the main point. Many of us are interested in this REGION (not religion :haha: ), we don't want to limit content to the Utah border. We all love the Grand Canyon topics, and this is exactly the stuff we want to make welcome.
We never intend on reading about hiking trails in Iowa, but would we have shunned them in the past if one of our members had some great pics? I'm actually happy to see JamisJockey's drunk fishing pics from back east.
Don't expect this to be a diluted nation wide forum. The forum is the member base. If 90% of the content is Utah relevant, it stays a Utah forum. That's it.
We're not losing our groups and communities. For the out-of-staters that love Utah, keep posting your Utah content! We don't need to see your hometown material if you don't want to talk about it. I just don't know what else I can say to ease your minds.
:ne_nau:
All the jabs about money really hurt and are LOW blows. I have not made a dime on this site and money has NEVER been how decisions were made. I have asked for donations to help pay for server fees. What about my time that I spend 24-7 to make sure the site is up. Who does the updates, who has developed all the upgrades to the site, who fights off spammers, who activates every single account, fields emails, has moved the site 5 times to different servers to handle the load, etc, etc, etc. It is really easy to just sit back, ride the gravy train, bitch and moan at change. Who else would like to carry this burden?
I get tired of members wondering if they can post content from out of state. There has been a growing trend of members who are not sure if they belong or if their reports will be accepted. This site is about sharing and I guess some have lost that focus. Don
Would you like to use my newest avatar?
~hugs~
Change is an oppertunity for something better. I like change and I look forward to watching Bogley grow. :popcorn:
I'm more comfortable with the idea of a "Western" forum. I, like many, believe there is a particular mindset, a zeitgeist, about living west of... wherever. The Rockies? The Great Plains? There's something out here...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
I could have done without seeing his tan lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Well, honestly, what you're saying is helping somewhat. Still, I'm adopting a wait and see attitude. I'll not try to wreck the change, or resist it. And if the site begins to trascend Utah (as it already does a tiny bit), I'll take what I can from it, and add what I can as well. Can't hurt...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
My apologies if my remarks about money were out of line. I guess it's the cynic in me coming out. I know that it's a lot of work - which is why I assumed that part of the rationale behind the change is to make it more... rewarding. If you're concerned about the amount of work involved right now, why else would growing the site be a priority? Perhaps because the alternative to growth on the internet is atrophy? I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
I make the comments about seeing you as trying to "grow the site" based in part on the following quotes from the e-mail sent out to members last week:
[quote][list][*]The traffic spike of Dec 26 (and many other spikes) has recruited zero members[*]The community can
Tanya -- why are you crying? Do you need a hug?
I am a bit divided on this issue. I am not one that embraces change easily. However, I also like to think that I maintain an open mind about most things. That said, I'm here for the long haul. I think it's unfair to be so hasty in our judgements. Give it some time. Kick the tires. See where things end up after the dust settles. A year from now if it's as bad as you thought it was gonna be at first, then you're justified if you make the decision to log out for the last time.
Remember --- it is a natural human tendency to FIGHT change. Many are concerned that this forum will change for the worse, but I really liked what Sombeech said earlier.....the only way this place is gonna lose it's Utah base is if all of the Utahns bail out of their own accord.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
:nod:
I live in the woods. :2thumbs:Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
Where you been, man?Quote:
Originally Posted by price1869
Woah nellie! My comment about money was not intended to hurt or be a low blow. I honestly wouldn't have a problem if you did make money on the site. It wasn't meant as an insult. Sounds like you are going through a stressful time right now. Sorry if I offended.Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
I appreciate what you guys do. Heaven knows I have little or no brain for computers. I have to go back and read the instructions every time I want to post a photo. I like the format of this site. It is easier to read threads, post nice photo tr's for us computards, and is a nice bit of entertainment in the middle of the day or night for that matter. I just don't want the good diluted and I don't want to have to weed out more stuff that doesn't interest me.
Oh well, I'll wait and see. I hope it works. :popcorn:
Edit: Sorry, double post. Dang laptop mouse..... :frustrated: I told you I am a computard.
Scot - Good luck with the new little one!
Best wishes for you & your wife - I'm pulling for everything to go smoothly and quickly (for your wife's sake).
:2thumbs: :2thumbs:
I don't think you should be surprised by moderator comments.... the memo you sent out to the mods was a "This is what we are going to do". It was a statement, it did not ask for input, suggestions or thoughts. It was a done deal by the time the mods were notified.Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
As for the money aspect it appears to me that you are about to triple your return..... and here is the math to prove it.
Money made from uutah:
Zero
Expected return from Bogley:
Zero x 3 = Zero
Anyhoo.... I'm happy to sit back and see where this goes, Ideally I would like to see the forum morph into a western states forum.
This whole deal kind of reminds me of attempting to up-grade your high school girlfriend.... Do you keep the sweet 7..... or.... do you dump her ass and try for the sexy 9. :lol8:
:bert:
TRIPLE!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Acca, my comment about the cash wasn't meant to be a jab. I put myself in your shoes and thought the only reason I would make more work for myself is the monitary benefits. Sorry for assuming, I made an ass out of...me.
Sombeech, you keep saying that 52 of the 300 top posters are from out of state. The reason they post here is because they are posting about UTAH. That being said I think the idea has grown on me while I have had some time to think about it, and Stefan makes some good points.
I do enjoy hearing about when Brewhaha went to Colorado to do some hiking and arch hunting. Jamis Jockey's topless photo's made me hot... I do like reading the TR's from the wind rivers, grand canyon, canyoneering in Washington, hiking in Oregon, etc. So I like the gremlin am here for the long run. And I will try not to bitch and moan so much :2thumbs:
Sorry if my comments came across as that... But you have google ads at the top and the bottom of each page, I assume they pay per hit, so I further assumed you stand to gain by going bigger. If your not making money (making money and making a profit are two different things IMO) then whats with the google ads?Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
I too took your whole Bogley deal as a sales pitch, didn't read any different. I'm involved in quite a few forums, a moderator on 4, including one with 30k members and 3mil posts. While I'm not the man behind them, I've watched as they too have gone through growing pains. If you really want to go big, I think its great, there is a market for it. But then it opens up for a forum that wants to specialize in all things Utah, not 90% Utah... all things Utah. Mabey I'm just one that feels that way? But judging on some of the responses, its a 50-50 bet... I say do it and see where it lands.
You and Beech know where I stand and I believe you guys have done and are doing a great job here. I believe the people on this forum is what makes this a very interesting place and there is a wealth of knowledge here. I first came here due to Beech being interested in my 4x4 clips. I saw the UUTAH link he had and I was totally interested in it due to my trips out to you guys. Until this forum, I never even heard of Canyoneering. I was like, WTH is this. When I ventured in their I was speechless seeing the trip reports and the photographs. People just dropping into a crack in the ground :haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
I never connected the UU as possibly being a site for the University of Utah, but then again, I'm not a conventional sports fan. So, that never crossed my mind. I am very interested in the four corner States and when things are introduced from your neighboring States, they grab my curiosity, no matter what it is. I believe you guys truly reside in God's country, I believe nothing else on Earth is that breathtaking. I, from time to time, will shoot you guys a few pics from New England to let you guys know just how lucky you guys are, especially with the vast amount of outdoor activities to do and visit.
I'll be along for the ride, I absolutely enjoy this place...no matter what the name is :mrgreen:
Oh, good luck Acca with the little one :2thumbs: Congratulations!!! :friday: :friday:
Hey acca, I just got my first check for $327. I thought you said it would take another month.
oops, I thought this was a PM. :oops:
Hey I hope theres a family cut in there :five:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Ok on a serious note, I think you and Acca are doing a great job. I'll admit I was a little sketchy at first about the idea, but now that I have had some time to think about it, I am all for it. I think it will be a good addition to an already great forum. I agree that the people that participate on the forum is what makes it such a great place to hang out and share information. Thanks for all you do guys :2thumbs:
Not that my 2 bits means squat but i say good move, i like Bogley and think it will attract more people...
With that said, i doubt they will post because the impression i get/got (when joining) from the site is that it is for about 20 people who post excessively, spam constantly (which is fun), know each other, lust each other, want their post count to be the highest and so on.... I feel there is great info in spots but take away the several thousand posts some have and its really not that large....
I'm sure someone will get their panties in a bunch about what i said and the fact that i have not posted much here but it will only prove my point that you can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink... unless they need it and the water is good...
IMO
Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
Not one Scott :ride: post all day? I miss you
:ne_nau:
http://www.soulprintsphotography.com...s/index_04.jpg
I have seen this photo many times and it's still one of my all time favorites. Daddies and babies are special.
When I first saw the bogely werewolf gremlin up on the banner it reminded me of a site for punk kids that think they make the world turn. Just from the name and the current logo I'd expect a place to discuss halo, skateboarding, texting, love triangles, crude photos/videos, and not something outdoors.
I'm ok with the name bogely but I'd like to see something like bogely outdoors, the name bogely does exactly what you wanted it to say, NOTHING. If bogely stays I suggest a logo that will not leave any question whether or not this is an outdoor community.
It's sad to see the Utah focus go away. I'd like to see it go no further than the western states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icthys
:lol8: I tend to agree here. Why not redesign the logo so that it has a picture of a gremlin holding a fishing pole, while on rappel, or something to that effect. You can also change what the "bogley" is doing based on season. In the winter the bogley would have skis or a snowboard strapped to his paws. In the spring, he would be rappelling down a slot canyon, in the summer he would be riding an ATV, etc, etc.....
Much like Google.com customizes their logo to fit the season, so too we ought to look in to something similar, where the outdoor creature is acting out the activities lined out in this forum given the appropriate season.
Have you read general discussion lately? :roflol:Quote:
Originally Posted by icthys
Actually General Discussion is doing just what it was intended to do.... which is removing most the riff-raff from the specific topic threads.
That'd be cool :nod:Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
We once made t-shirts for a family trip with a bunch of kokopelli's doing different outdoor sports, like biking, climbing etc.
I think you just found a volunteer beech and acca :2thumbs:Quote:
Originally Posted by jumar
I would have to agree on the logo, but I am trying not to bitch so much.