Printable View
Hi Canyoncaver
Sorry, you are NOT as proportional as French_de (me neither!)
That said he might also enjoy walks on the beach, so who knows?:mrgreen:
In fact, from our fitting data-base you are LONG-WAISTED (top-heavy), which blows my whole caving harness theory to heck:ne_nau:
I am hoping you have massive bicycle legs or maybe wear ski boots when you rappel.
That might help my theory out...
a little:facepalm1:
Have used caving harness for yo-yoing boundary.
Didn't see any real advantage ascending as compared to a properly set up croll and torse.
Had no problem rappeling in said harness.
5'11"---24"
for you measuring types:mrgreen:
Hi Oldno7:mrgreen:
Well.......you are also long- waisted!
I am abandoning the long waisted/short waisted caving harness theory, nursing my wounded ego, and moving on to a less embarrassing :lol8:
thread.
But nice to hear from you!
..
Sometimes dangling the pack works, sometimes it does not.Quote:
Originally Posted by caverdan
We very rarely (as in very, very, very rarely) have to changeover from rap to ascend when canyoneering, or from ascend to rappel. And very few canyoneers use chest blocs or racks of any kind. But I do get your point that for caving, the low attachment point works for a variety of reasons, as part of the "normal system".
Tom
Everybody thanks for your info, ideas and advices. Difficult to decide though....
I think while the old harness is still safe enough to use I'll take it as a back-up, and I'll start testing the new one, starting in 'easy' canyons with little rappels.
Hope to see you all in the canyons somewhere around end of May, beginning of June!
:2thumbs:
Hi Maarten,Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten.1975
I'm sure the caving harness will suit you well, if that is the direction you decide to go. I asked two weeks ago if anyone had ANY real stories of someone inverting in a caving harness. The fact that no one was able to produce even a single story is very telling.
People may decide that climbing harnesses are "better" for canyons than caving harnesses. That is fine. We all have our opinions. However, there is no evidence that caving harnesses are "dangerous" for rappelling.
This "caving harnesses are bad/dangerous for rappelling" thing just needs to go away. It is a myth without any basis in fact. Although, for historical reasons I would still be interested in hearing how the myth got started. I have been hearing it from canyoneers since 2009.
In the future, I would ask folks to back up their very authoritative-sounding warnings with evidence, or just remain silent.
BUT…..us old timers LIKE wearing our harness hitched up REALLY high…
Just like our pants :mrgreen:
I own both the Petzl and a Gonzo Gear caving harness. One or the other fits better on certain human bodies male/female. The harness was/is the one of choice when going on ascending fests - down/up canyons. If using the frog or modified frog method the difference in stroke (from that of a climbing harness) is significant (over the stretch of hundreds of "pulls"). For me, a climbing harness is more comfortable though, easier to quickly adjust and allows for quick attachment on many loops (already stated by others). Petzl use to make - I assume they still do - a nice adjustable canyon harness that could go from S-L on one style and from L - XXL on the other. I've used them extensively when "lending out" to others who's shapes and sizes are different than I. To the inexperienced, the initial launch to a caving harness can "mentally" be a bit tippy; but with practice/experience it's normally not an issue, as long as with heavy weight packs, (going down) the pack is hung. Not as much of an issue on the way up if using a croll and a chest strap.
Since there are so many options in the caving, climbing and canyon modes - in terms of gear, use, practice, habit, exposure and experience, it's surprising that some still pontificate pro or con on this or that gear, particularly if they have never used it. Par for the course I guess with mindset or manners as they are.
..
I came across this thread and realized that I have a data point to offer. I am relatively new to canyoning, having been a caver for a few years. I own an OnRope1 Goliath Expedition harness and have descended about 35 Class C canyons with it. There are advantages, such as clean attachment (no maillon rapide needed) of the Croll and double cowstail (which I consider required equipment in Class C canyons). There are also disadvantages. I found that when wearing my pack on long free hanging rappels, I would expend considerable effort keeping myself upright. I am a wiry guy with long legs - 1.83 m and 75 kg. I have never experienced an issue with this when caving, even on a 178 m pitch with a small pack on my back. I gave this some thought, and came up with a possible explanation that my canyon pack usually has 60 m of wet rope, 10 m of wet nylon webbing, several rapides, and a 6 L keg full of stuff. Add to that often being under a waterfall with water entering the pack, and there you have it. One thing I ended up doing to help with this is clipping a carabiner from my left shoulder pack strap to the rope above my descender - it works well, but I wouldn't try it in a really serious waterfall for fear of something getting caught. Additionally, stream walking in the OnRope1 caving harness while wearing a wetsuit is a chore. I continually have to adjust the leg straps by pulling them up and then cinching down the buckles (they are the speed-buckle variety).
I just retired the OnRope1 harness (the center attachment points are now worn thin) and purchased Petzl Canyon and Superavanti harnesses for canyoning and caving respectively. I tried the Canyon harness out last weekend in three canyons. It was a world of difference. It is much easier to adjust and is more comfortable while stream walking. On rappels, the butt protector acts like a saddle and (I know this is subjective) makes me feel more stable when negotiating slippery slopes. I had no issues with free hanging rappels up to 40 m, presumably due to the way that the harness sits on the pelvis. The large gear loops are easy to deal with - as long as you're using full size carabiners (nothing smaller than say, a Petzl Spirit). One thing that I don't like is that I now have to use rapides to attach the Croll and double cowstail. That clutters things up a bit and puts the Croll at about mid-abdomen - much too high for efficient frogging. That said, I've only used my Croll for changing over to ascent once to deal with a core-shot rope.
One additional anecdote... I witnessed an experienced caver turn upside down in a canyon waterfall when wearing a caving harness. The person was not wearing a pack (we'd passed packs down due to the difficult nature of the waterfall). It happened in a split second when their foot got jammed in a crack behind the whitewater, and the force of the water pushed on their torso. Luckily, they kept a firm grip on the brake strand and freed the foot quickly. I have no idea if wearing a caving harness had any effect on this scenario. Certainly their experience, skill, and some luck helped them escape unharmed.
One very interesting new harness is one made by Aventure Verticale called Mazerin. It is designed for both caving and canyoning and includes a butt protector as well as a caving-type central attachment point (BYOO - Bring Your Own Omni).
http://www.aventureverticale.com/en/...ss-avca04.html
FWIW...I'm 6'0, 220 lbs. tried a few harnesses, and so far my favorite is the the CampUSA Topaz+