Rap accident in Rubio Canyon; 60' fall

We always do the "fireman's belay". If the guy at the bottom simply weights the rope, he can help control the speed of the falling rappeller. Autoblocks get in the way and also prevent good technique. Try it some time. I was on a 10mm dynamic rope, 190lbs + 60 lbs of gear, free hanging, and my buddy was able to stop me cold. If you wanna film the action, get a GoPro helmet cam and get your hands on the rope.

Wow, thanks for posting. It looks like the slope of the rap below where he let go may also have helped save him ?? Very scary..

I did Bailey Canyon in the San Gabriels this December and slipped on the slick, algae covered granite on one of the raps (the slip was only my feet, not slipping on the rope). I do not use an autoblock, but have it ingrained to never let go of the brake-strand rope. This slip was the first real test of that instinct. I actualy think I have GOPRO video of my slip. Not very exciting to watch and much closer to the bottom than this one.

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Originally Posted by mtndude3737

get a GoPro helmet cam and get your hands on the rope.

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The answer for me going forward lies here. Mount the cam on a mini-tripod and do a fireman's.

We'll take pictures and video while doing a fireman's belay a lot of the time. Sure, the angle in the pictures and video isn't as good and you end up with a bunch of butt shots, but when it comes down to it, I'll take a few butt shots over having my butt slam onto the ground. Scary video! I'm glad he's alright!

A wing and a prayer; maybe a bell rang and an angel got it's wings? Others in the same circumstance may have died or been seriously injured.

All the comment about putting both hands below the device and holding the rope? Reminds me of days of old when I/we didn't know better.

Even with skinny 8mm ropes there are many options to increase and measure out safe efficient friction. If a tube device, two biners below the device and the rope through a biner on the right leg (if that is the rope side), rope can be twisted around the biner for more friction; or run a munter hitch (twists the rope) or extend via a sling a device (tube) the rope goes through, and then run it through a second device attached to harness. Offers a very smooth ride. OR, learn to use a pirana and all it's options or a new Sterling ATS wrap device and its options.

Auto blocks in running water, I'd so NO. And careful with them otherwise. Letting go of the rope? Maybe some folk should not be into canyoneering, OR should be watched closely/always (some enjoy the overall activity but not rapping). If only two of you and you want a firemans and photos? Wrap the tailing rope around your waste and hold with your left hand, shoot with your right hand, at the sign of any problem, back up quickly and the rapper should stop, after that, drop the camera, grab rope with both hands and lower the person if need be.

Gloves? We humans are not all alike. Some have cold hands, formerly broken fingers and nicked up digits. Some advocate no gloves; myself, I usually like at least a garden variety/plastic/cotton glove; use a hand to push or bounch off walls and keeps grit off hands. In the training room or training wall though, I agree, folk should dial up with NO gloves and learn the nuance of friction with tubes and other devices.

I imagine the tone of this thread would be different if the fellow was lights out after the fall. Lucky, a gift or intervention by a force?....whatever, it was not his time. The two of you should practice on both single and double strands, before you go out again - that's what I'd say to my brother, best friend or to myself in the mirror.

I was thinking [I]D

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Originally Posted by dsr70

Re: double line. Two reasons. 1, I always rig a contingency anchor when leading. It was for me, in this case, as he knows how to release and lower. 2, I wanted the option to ascend and be able to get all the way to the top if needed. Combined with his desire to go single line, we were both happy with the setup.

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DSR,

Just a couple of questions, not mean spirited in any way:

Is there a reason one might need to ascend that particular waterfall?

If Matt had it to do over, would he have untied the contingancy and rapped both lines?

If I sound a little clueless- I've never rapped off a waterfall, and am unfamiliar with the canyon you were in. I'm just trying to learn, not rub salt in any wound.

Bob

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Originally Posted by Slot Machine

DSR,

Just a couple of questions, not mean spirited in any way:

Is there a reason one might need to ascend that particular waterfall?

If Matt had it to do over, would he have untied the contingancy and rapped both lines?

If I sound a little clueless- I've never rapped off a waterfall, and am unfamiliar with the canyon you were in. I'm just trying to learn, not rub salt in any wound.

Bob

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Bob

Going down the water way is how we roll in SoCal canyons. They were doing the canyon which is in the water course. It's a low flow class C canyon. Not so different than going down Boundry in Zion with water flow. They are doing single strand because that is how the big boys do it (versus toss n' go). I suspect they felt sufficiently confident that neither suspected that this accident might transpire.

It is interesting in looking at the video is slow motion. The rappeller is out of balance with his torso leaning into the fall line. This reduces the pressure being applied through the feet which are not being maintained perpendicular to the rock face. As he slips he removes his brake hand from the rope to reach out and absorb the immediate impact of hitting the rock. As he begins to accelerate he reaches up and grabs the rope above the rappel devise. His hands are gloved. This maneuver undoubtedly slowed his descent. About half way down he bounces in the water course and impacts the back wall in the open book but this impact is absorbed by his backpack. Immediately after this his head also impacts the open book wall behind him but this blow is cushioned by his helmet. He survives a potentially fatal fall as a result of this. Of course it would have been better to have maintained better posture at the top of the rappel to maintain more force to the soles of his boots, to absorbed a potential hip pointer from the small slip on the rope as opposed to taking the braking hand off the rope, and finally, as pointed out a fireman's belay would also have been beneficial here. I know there are other points to be learned here.

All in all, it is amazing that there are no injuries and amazing that there is video of this accident to facilitate its analysis.:phew:

Ken

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Originally Posted by spinesnaper

Bob

Going down the water way is how we roll in SoCal canyons. They were doing the canyon which is in the water course. It's a low flow class C canyon. Not so different than going down Boundry in Zion with water flow.

Ken

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Ken,

Huh? I appreciate how you roll and all, but I'm asking about going back UP the water way. Why would he want/need to go back up the face of that particular falls?

Bob

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Originally Posted by Slot Machine

Ken,

Huh? I appreciate how you roll and all, but I'm asking about going back UP the water way. Why would he want/need to go back up the face of that particular falls?

Bob

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I was not aware that they need to reascend this water fall. Generally one exits Rubio canyon below the last set of falls to a trail-an old tramway I believe. Are you asking why they are descending a blocked rope?

Ken

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Originally Posted by spinesnaper

I was not aware that they need to reascend this water fall. Generally one exits Rubio canyon below the last set of falls to a trail-an old tramway I believe. Are you asking why they are descending a blocked rope?

Ken

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Ken,

I replied before you were finished with post #28 above. The rest of your post ties your thought together. I understand that he blocked it to give himself the option to ascend the falls if needed. My question is - is there something special about Rubio that would warrant such a precaution? If I went down that waterfall, man I wouldn't want to go back up that thing...

Bob

Correct, there is no need to ascend any drop in Rubio. But I wanted the option in case he got stuck on rappel (twin 50kn anchors on this drop). It was a remote possibility, but it's also why I rig a contingency always. Hence the single line rap in this case, which was accepted since he preferred it as well. But obviously the greater risk was in not having a fireman's belay and that was my mistake.

As an aside, I had done the previous 100/120' Leontine falls double line since I was concerned about the pull and was LAMAR. Thalehaha here has a clean pull.

btw... no offense to anything posted. I hope it's clear from the mere fact that I posted this that I am open to learn anything and everything from those more seasoned than I. When _life_ is literally on the line, there's no room to take offense.

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Originally Posted by Slot Machine

Ken,

I replied before you were finished with post #28 above. The rest of your post ties your thought together. I understand that he blocked it to give himself the option to ascend the falls if needed. My question is - is there something special about Rubio that would warrant such a precaution? If I went down that waterfall, man I wouldn't want to go back up that thing...

Bob

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Bob

I do not know dsr70 or his partner. However, ATS canyoneering school does a lot of training of Southern California canyoneers. They are technically rigorous and emphasize single strand rappelling and it is common to see that here. Yes, the option of reascending is definitely one advantage of single strand but so is the ability to correctly set the rap length for a C canyon so one does not have to disconnect while floating. More senior canyoneers can probably weigh in on the merits of single strand vs double strand better than I can.

Ken

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Originally Posted by dsr70

Correct, there is no need to ascend any drop in Rubio. But I wanted the option in case he got stuck on rappel (twin 50kn anchors on this drop). It was a remote possibility, but it's also why I rig a contingency always. Hence the single line rap in this case, which was accepted since he preferred it as well. But obviously the greater risk was in not having a fireman's belay and that was my mistake.

As an aside, I had done the previous 100/120' Leontine falls double line since I was concerned about the pull and was LAMAR. Thalehaha here has a clean pull.

btw... no offense to anything posted. I hope it's clear from the mere fact that I posted this that I am open to learn anything and everything from those more seasoned than I. When _life_ is literally on the line, there's no room to take offense.

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Thanks for the explanation.

Not everyone is so open to discussing mistakes and I appreciate the "no room to take offense approach". :2thumbs:

I've learned a few important things from your video. Thanks for sharing.

Bob

[QUOTE=Don;488496]I was thinking [I]D

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Originally Posted by Brian in SLC

Wow...

Uhh, his mistake had nothing to do with how he rigged his autoblock, IMHO. In flow, my bet is most folks don't use an autoblock. In high flow, stuck in a waterfall, or, in a pool, an autoblock can be bad.

He let go. Ugh. Maybe use two hands? Maybe use both strands for additional friction and control? Maybe rig for more friction?

His brake hand position is maybe a bit off? I take the brake strand in my hand down below and around my hip, not that close to my rap device.

Could also rig the rappel device on a sling above the harness, which, puts it in a spot that is easier to control.

Back to the autoblock, which, maybe shouldn't be used in flow, biners on the leg loop for an autoblock, where the rap device is directly off the belay loop, are notoriously unreliable. You need to get more space between them!

An autoblock is a really poor back up for bad technique. They don't always work, and, they require a fair amount of skill and experience to rig them properly. And, you only find out they don't work when you screw up. Didn't look like the autoblock contributed anything to his slowing down at all.

If your friend's instinct is to let go of the rope with any slip on a rappel...then...ugh...maybe a top belay and not a fireman's would be more appropriate.

Single rope, pack on back, slick rock...

Relying on gloves to make up for poor technique and skill and too little friction...never a good idear. Maybe a bunch of rappels without them would help gain some insight into rigging properly? If you "need" them, then, you're not doing it right.

Scary.

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QFE

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Originally Posted by trackrunner

harbor freight mother f***ers!

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:lol8: one of my fav quotes of all time

Been following this thread. Thanks for sharing the video. I appreciate the dialogue on what went wrong.

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Originally Posted by Deathcricket

there is an argument about jumping all over noobs

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How about one for not jumping on anybody? What is the argument that it is ok to jump on a non-noob? Or...is there one?

Here is a question I had that does not apply to this situation specifically, but more of a general question: what are the drawbacks for only the last one down the rap pulling out the block and rapping double strand. This assumes that the first one down allowed the rope length to be set and that the rope length is adequate for both strands to reach bottom (no knot or pull cord needed obviously). The block can sometimes get caught when pulling the other strand after completing the rap and if the anchor was rigged as contingency, there would be no one left up top to lower if the need arose anyway- so what good does it do? I know it was mentioned that it was a clean pull in this situation but I have been in situations where the block made the pull more difficult. I have never done this, but was wondering if it might be more efficient and just as safe (for last one down only). Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by deagol

Here is a question I had that does not apply to this situation specifically, but more of a general question: what are the drawbacks for only the last one down the rap pulling out the block and rapping double strand. This assumes that the first one down allowed the rope length to be set and that the rope length is adequate for both strands to reach bottom (no knot or pull cord needed obviously). The block can sometimes get caught when pulling the other strand after completing the rap and if the anchor was rigged as contingency, there would be no one left up top to lower if the need arose anyway- so what good does it do? I know it was mentioned that it was a clean pull in this situation but I have been in situations where the block made the pull more difficult. I have never done this, but was wondering if it might be more efficient and just as safe (for last one down only). Thoughts?

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There are a few situations that indicate for going either double strand or single strand as last person down, but in perhaps 90% of cases it is a matter of personal preference.

Indicators for double-strand:
a. trees/branches in the way that could snag a blocking biner on the way down.
b. last rapper only comfortable/safe when using double-strand technique.

Indicators for single-strand:
c. significant waterflow, double-strand could get twisted or confused.
d. rap into pool, good teamwork can have the rope stuffing while the last rapper is swimming.
e. last rapper only comfortable/safe using single-strand technique.
f. a strong suspicion that the rope may need to be climbed.

In other words, the usual suspects; less the "commitment of all resources to the rappel, complicating rescue" thing.

Tom :moses: