Of rope silos and rope management...

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11-11-2010, 10:01 AM
trackrunner

Quote:

Originally Posted by p40whk

When in the canyon, it's no big deal because it's out most of the time but trying to figure out a way to secure it for the long approach will take some thought without having a few more sewn in clip loops (which would make this bag perfect in my mind).

I observed some friends do this for long approaches and have since tried it and it works well. If there is no room in your pack, and if your back pack has a lid that is strapped down place the rope bag under the lid and then strap the lid tight & secure with a binner in case it pulls out. ymmv
11-11-2010, 11:28 AM
mtthwlw

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

I took several of the larger silo's years ago and had a guy in Ogden sew back pack straps on them. I'll look for a picture.

That's what I'd like. Who'd you take them to in Ogden? I might do that with mine.
11-11-2010, 02:56 PM
moab mark

1 Attachment(s)

Here is a picture. I can't remember the guys name, Canyon Sports in Ogden has his card on the wall. I tried to get the Emperor to add straps to them 4 or 5 yrs ago, but he didn't want to play. My younger kids use these for packs everywhere we go.

Attachment 39106
11-11-2010, 03:23 PM
p40whk

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackrunner

I observed some friends do this for long approaches and have since tried it and it works well. If there is no room in your pack, and if your back pack has a lid that is strapped down place the rope bag under the lid and then strap the lid tight & secure with a binner in case it pulls out. ymmv

I tried that and that's ok for flat and level hikes but that extra weight on top of my pack nearly sent me into a death tumble down death gully into Mystery Canyon:scared:

There's not a lot of flat on that down climb and once I hit the real steep grade the extra weight on top of my pack really made a difference in balance. We ended up stopping and strapping it on the bottom of the pack but couldn't get it secure enough to keep it from banging against my back side on every step.
11-11-2010, 09:40 PM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

I took several of the larger silo's years ago and had a guy in Ogden sew back pack straps on them. I'll look for a picture. Use them alot in North Wash type canyons. Put the rope in the bottom, gear on top. Put on gear when you get to first drop and use silo as intended. But with the standard silos you either carry in your hand try to sling it over your shoulder or stick it in your pack. When going small distances between drops we biner them to the hand strap on the top of an Imlay Pack, the Silo just hangs on the side.

Shocked! Shocked I am, ... because I do offer a Large Rope Silo with shoulder straps on it. It is called the Mystery Pack.

Tom :moses:
11-11-2010, 09:45 PM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by p40whk

I tried that and that's ok for flat and level hikes but that extra weight on top of my pack nearly sent me into a death tumble down death gully into Mystery Canyon:scared:

There's not a lot of flat on that down climb and once I hit the real steep grade the extra weight on top of my pack really made a difference in balance. We ended up stopping and strapping it on the bottom of the pack but couldn't get it secure enough to keep it from banging against my back side on every step.

So let me get this straight - you have a pack that is not big enough the carry the stuff you want... and you want the stuff to be somehow smaller or more friendly. The solution is to have a big enough pack. Did Mystery Canyon today, and wore a Heaps pack. Wetsuit - check. Ropes, lots of other stuff - check. It all fit inside and carried well.

Perhaps I should restate as: have a pack big enough to carry your stuff.

For long approaches, in the unlikely case that I have to carry the rope, I pull a big rope out of the silo and coil it, so it can be carried in a good position on the pack, and perhaps someone else can carry the silo. At the first drop, load the long rope into the silo.

The silo is optimized for utilizing the rope, not for carrying it. It does not carry so well ON a pack, because it is an awkward shape. If I made it a good shape to be carried ON a pack, it would not work as well for utilizing the rope.

Tom :moses:
11-12-2010, 08:26 AM
moab mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

Shocked! Shocked I am, ... because I do offer a Large Rope Silo with shoulder straps on it. It is called the Mystery Pack.

Tom :moses:

I just went over to your site, had not seen a Mystery, when do you come out with it? I noticed you did away with the large silo? I've been storing Scott Holley's Imlay Packs while he is off screwing around. He has a couple that I have been using lately, (he'll never know):naughty: they are between a spry and large silo but look like a silo, awesome packs. He said they were one of your guys original packs. Looks like the Mystery would feel the same niche.
11-12-2010, 08:37 AM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

I just went over to your site, had not seen a Mystery, when do you come out with it? I noticed you did away with the large silo? I've been storing Scott Holley's Imlay Packs while he is off screwing around. He has a couple that I have been using lately, (he'll never know):naughty: they are between a spry and large silo but look like a silo, awesome packs. He said they were one of your guys original packs. Looks like the Mystery would feel the same niche.

The Mystery pack started out EXACTLY as a Large Silo with shoulder straps on it, for Zion Adventure Co...

This is the pack that I have changed pretty much every year, trying to find the right combination of features / weight / etc. The current offering from that exploration includes the Spry Pack (the regular canyoneer version) and the Mystery Pack (the guide-company version for clients to carry). I think both packs are pretty right-on as far as what I wanted to achieve :clap: but... neither has really been successful from a sales point of view. :cry1:

But, the current Mystery is the size of a large rope silo, good for 300 feet of 9mm, but does not have a lot of drainage (but certainly has some).

Tom :moses:
11-12-2010, 09:30 AM
moab mark

Unless my Silo's are different my Spry-Mystery pack body is larger then my Silo's? IMO a basic large silo with just shoulder straps for around $80 would sell. I'll take 4. The one's I made have become a favorite of my tribe. We even slide a small silo or bagarino in them and then store gear on top. I have a Spry and IMO it's not big enough to go on a full day and haul rope (unlike Ram I have to haul rope) but not small enough for skinny slots. The big waist band really gets in the way when dragging it thru a slot. Plus the price makes you want to treat it nicely. If you are going to have a nice waist strap might as well go with the Heaps or Kolob. My next one I get will be a Heaps, I like my Kolob but wish it was bigger. I have a Lep also and doesn't haul rope well. Maybe a Mystery with out the waist belt? Just my opinion.
11-12-2010, 08:50 PM
mtthwlw

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

The text on that items says I am out of them until April - but people still order them. So sometimes when I am out of stuff, I put a ridiculous price on em, which discourages people from ordering them.Tom

Tom... A hypothetical situation: so if I put an item on your site on a Christmas list, and say, my mom goes to buy something for me and has no idea if that item should cost $50 or $150... would you give her a heads-up? Or would she be fooled into buying something at the ridiculous price? :oops:

What I'm saying is that some people visiting your site may not be aware of the difference between a ridiculous price and a good one. (You'd think that the med-silo at 1/3 of the price of small would tip her off, but I'm talking about my hypothetical mom here. She's already probably typed the URL that I sent her as a hyperlink into the yahoo search engine to find your page... and she's not sure what she's looking at anyway.)
11-12-2010, 09:17 PM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtthwlw

Tom... A hypothetical situation: so if I put an item on your site on a Christmas list, and say, my mom goes to buy something for me and has no idea if that item should cost $50 or $150... would you give her a heads-up? Or would she be fooled into buying something at the ridiculous price? :oops:

What I'm saying is that some people visiting your site may not be aware of the difference between a ridiculous price and a good one. (You'd think that the med-silo at 1/3 of the price of small would tip her off, but I'm talking about my hypothetical mom here. She's already probably typed the URL that I sent her as a hyperlink into the yahoo search engine to find your page... and she's not sure what she's looking at anyway.)

I don't KEEP the bonus... but I prefer not the hassle of refunding it and explaining that it is not available, as it said on the page. "Not Available" I believe is (in theory) a universal, easily understood concept - though people would have to READ the page to pick up on that...

If I knew how to manipulate the website better, I could turn ordering off - but I cannot. Should I make the price 0$ ???

Tom
11-12-2010, 09:25 PM
Cirrus2000

I think about $1,000,000 would work. Even more than a g-pick!
11-12-2010, 09:29 PM
mtthwlw

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

"Not Available" I believe is (in theory) a universal, easily understood concept - though people would have to READ the page to pick up on that...

You know, I went to http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/home.php?cat=255 and didn't see "Not Available"... but you're right, it does say it on the page when you click on the item. Not trying to hassle... just trying to make sure I can send my mom or wife-- or whomever-- to your site when they ask "What do you want for Festivus this year?" :lol8:
11-12-2010, 10:11 PM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtthwlw

You know, I went to http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/home.php?cat=255 and didn't see "Not Available"... but you're right, it does say it on the page when you click on the item. Not trying to hassle... just trying to make sure I can send my mom or wife-- or whomever-- to your site when they ask "What do you want for Festivus this year?" :lol8:

Good points, thanks. I have made some changes to be more aggressive on these matters.

Tom
11-12-2010, 11:10 PM
chabidiah

Rope carry

I can vouch for Tom rarely carrying the rope. Did Englestead with him last year and I think he passed it to me every time for the carry... But I also am a proud silo owner and after Tom showed me the proper way to use it, I am set.
11-13-2010, 06:45 AM
moab mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

I don't KEEP the bonus... but I prefer not the hassle of refunding it and explaining that it is not available, as it said on the page. "Not Available" I believe is (in theory) a universal, easily understood concept - though people would have to READ the page to pick up on that...

If I knew how to manipulate the website better, I could turn ordering off - but I cannot. Should I make the price 0$ ???

Tom

Why not just do back orders? Take their mullah and then make em wait.:nod:
11-13-2010, 08:18 AM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

Why not just do back orders? Take their mullah and then make em wait.:nod:

I have tried that (I like taking people's money) but I am not very good at managing backorders, so I consider it better to not have many hanging over my head.

Tom
11-29-2010, 08:08 AM
rsmiller

Used the Baganaro in Not Mindbender and Mindbender over Thanksgiving. To be honest I am not sold yet. We tested having one rope coiled and the other bagged. In general the coiled rope was faster to clean up but the bagged rope was faster to deploy. Coiled rope was easier to pack and the bagged rope was difficult to pack.

I am use to stuffing rope bags (also rafter) so the stuffing technique was not a problem. Also had a hard time figuring out how to pack the rope bag. Coiled ropes tend to pack easier as they fill in the space in the pack while the rope bag is ridged and takes up a lot of room. It’s tough strapped on the back of a pack in the tight spots and a pain to carry both a pack and the rope bag in the small places.

I'll try it a few more times but it seems like it might have its place in long canyons with fewer narrows and lots of longer raps. In a place like the roost a coiled rope might work best.
11-29-2010, 08:53 AM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsmiller

Used the Baganaro in Not Mindbender and Mindbender over Thanksgiving. To be honest I am not sold yet. We tested having one rope coiled and the other bagged. In general the coiled rope was faster to clean up but the bagged rope was faster to deploy. Coiled rope was easier to pack and the bagged rope was difficult to pack.

I am use to stuffing rope bags (also rafter) so the stuffing technique was not a problem. Also had a hard time figuring out how to pack the rope bag. Coiled ropes tend to pack easier as they fill in the space in the pack while the rope bag is ridged and takes up a lot of room. It’s tough strapped on the back of a pack in the tight spots and a pain to carry both a pack and the rope bag in the small places.

I'll try it a few more times but it seems like it might have its place in long canyons with fewer narrows and lots of longer raps. In a place like the roost a coiled rope might work best.

Yup!

Those canyons have a few rappels, far apart, where using a rope bag is of marginal use. Though, as you get used to the stuffing, your speed and efficiency will improve.

Tom :moses:

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