Number of posts. But if you post "jumping" videos you are automatically a vet! That is my opinion.
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Number of posts. But if you post "jumping" videos you are automatically a vet! That is my opinion.
Definition according to Cambridge and WorldBookQuote:
Originally Posted by sasteve49
rookie /ruki:/ noun
1. An awkward and inexperienced youth.
2. First year participant in a major professional sport.
3. Someone who drinks LESS than a case of beer before posting on Bogley.
:roflol::pitcher:Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoutColorado
Well......I guess I got 2 out of three here. Only half a case before venturing into the midst of all these veterans.....:wink: Did my first rappel in 1973 out of a Huey....then lots more over the years. First did Pine Creek 9 years ago with my buddy Rick. I remember it was completely dry, amazing.
I'm going to jump in on this thread again, because I think there is some information here that is going to get someone hurt.
I don't know Steve at all, or Tom very well. I haven't done any canyons with either, so I have no dog in the fight between these two.
I'll go back to my original statement that talked about this system as a "marginal" anchoring system... IT IS!!!!!
I think to suggest that long(100'+) rappels can be done with this device, without sequencing or using a "legitimate" meat back up is DANGEROUS!
There should be an awful lot of thought, by an experienced canyoneer, put into the use of this device. To suggest that you can back up this system by merely placing your foot on the rappel strand is negligent. I understand that you have been able to do this and it has added enough weight/friction to control the device. BUT---In the bigger picture, I would suggest that if this device begins to slip, putting your foot on the rope will not be enough to prevent the maxxi/sand from releasing, jumping on the device as it slides may not help either.
So I would suggest:
1) Carefully place this device, hopefully behind a small natural feature, or dig a slight trench to help hold it.
2) Set up a sequence of your group( by weight and rappelling ability)
3) Sequence would put the smallest/smoothest rappeler last.
4) ALWAYS back up with meat for everyone but LAMAR.
5) Use sit starts to incorporate friction into the rigging as soon as possible.
This is a great idea and a huge asset to canyoneers. It is not a bomber anchoring system! It is a tool, and a good tool, that needs to be used properly.
Some very good points, Kurt. Thank you for posting.
There was an incident recently. Pad was backed up for everyone except LAMAR. As he started to rappel, LAMAR decided to make a slight adjustment to the pad's position. The adjustment caused it to fail during his rappel and sent him tumbling. Fortunately for him, not very far.
Have fun. Be safe.
This is indeed an advanced anchor technique. I believe that all but the last should try to stress the anchor rather than baby it. Go ahead, lean back and jump around, as long as there is a bomb proof backup of some sort. That will make the last person feel much more comfortable as he/she then uses the gentle approach Kurt refers to in #5.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
The backup/testing plan is very important, and unfortunately not really stressed in Steve's Video.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
Well, actually, putting your foot on the tensioned rope or standing on the SandTrap works really well as a backup. But it does not really help with the testing - which is VERY important. A slightly slack tether back to a meat (or other) anchor is very helpful in letting the trap "settle itself in", and seeing what happens without interrupting it until true failure is imminent.
If a small pothole type feature is not available, a berm can be built in front of the SandTrap which creates much the same effect.
More info available here: http://imlaycanyongear.com/sandtrap.php
Tom :moses:
I'm going to have to agree to disagree with this Sonny.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnylawrence
If I want to blow out a "marginal" anchor, I can usually do so doing as you suggest.
On the other hand--If I start out with equal weight distribution between the marginal anchor and meat back up, I can have the person doing the meat back up, slowly release tension on their system between each subsequent rappeler, thus slowly testing the "marginal" anchor. I never have the backup(meat) release more than 1/2-1 inch of tension, that way if the system were to fail, it doesn't overly shock load the meat back up. The last person(LAMAR), has gained the knowledge of knowing the "marginal" anchor held those who went before him, who should have weighed more. Thus increasing the "warm fuzzies"
OK, first of all, it is awesome to see all the comments and advice given concerning the MaxxiPad/Sandtrap. There is no "fight" between Tom and I, only an agreement to disagree on the construction. When I first thought up the idea of the MaxxiPad and had my wife sew it up to my design, the only person (of numerous experienced canyoneers here in Zion that I showed it to),that thought it could be a good idea, was Jonathan of Zion Adventure Company. So we tested it extensively on over 200 raps in canyons at Lake Powell. From short potholes to long(100ft plus), even one free hanging of over 160ft from the MaxxiPad in a flat position with no lip! We experimented with weights and distribution of sand, sequencing heavier people first and actually got to a point where we were comfortable with me going last(190lbs). So before any other canyoneers had even heard of it, we had thoroughly tested it in some pretty extreme situations. And we never once used a meat anchor as backup.I am not a crazy, fearless or reckless individual. I assess every situation before I commit, whether doing a base jump or rapping off the MaxxiPad. So thanks to all for any input and I would like to see safety in the canyons paramount. I had the pleasure of doing some canyons with Ram at Powell and he was surprised to see us using it in the flat mode instead of folded. Apparently he had been told that the folded "taco" configuration was the only way to use it, even on flat surfaces. This is wrong input. I originally designed it for the flat mode and then realized the folded "taco" would work behind lips as well. Be safe out there......