Question: How to pass a knot when belaying from the top??

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06-24-2009, 09:44 AM
Iceaxe

Re: Question: How to pass a knot when belaying from the top?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiecutter

I have a buddy rapping down a 200 footer when something gets stuck and he is unable to lock off and fix the problem.

One note about your original problem. You said your buddy was unable to lock off (for whatever reason). If he was unable to lock off I assume that means he has to still be conscious and holding the brake.

If your buddy is unconscious that means he is already locked off with some type of safety brake or he has pancake into the ground.... or so I assumed....

:popcorn:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

Now, a pet peeve. PLEASE do not take spelling lessons from Shane. A "Chord" is a set of notes. A "Cord" is a small piece of rope, too thin and wimpy to provide life-support.

And for Tom.....

Crazed Institution - Jethro Tull

Just a little touch of make-up; just a little touch of bull;
just a little 3-chord trick embedded in your platform soul;
you can wear a gold Piaget on your Semaphore wrist;
you can dance the old adage with a dapper new twist.
And you can ring a crown of roses round your cranium,
live and die upon your cross of platinum.
Join the crazed institution of the stars.
Be the man that you think (know) you really are.

Crawl inside your major triad, curl up and laugh
as your agent scores another front page photograph.
Is it them or is it you throwing dice inside the loo
awaiting someone else to pull the chain.
Well grab the old bog-handle, hold your breath and light a candle.
Clear your throat and pray for rain to irrigate the corridors that echo in
your brain filled with empty nothingness, empty hunger pains.

And you can ring a crown of roses round your cranium,
live and die upon your cross of platinum.
Join the crazed institution of the stars.
Be the man that you think (know) you really are.

:rockon:
06-24-2009, 09:52 AM
cookiecutter

Quote:

One note about your original problem. You said your buddy was unable to lock off (for whatever reason). If he was unable to lock off I assume that means he has to still be conscious and holding the brake.

If your buddy is unconscious that means he is already locked off with some type of safety brake or he has pancake into the ground.... or so I assumed....

Point taken. I should have written more clearly. But in writing it not so clearly I have achieved more than one solution. So thanks to everyone!
06-24-2009, 09:53 AM
cookiecutter

Quote:

I like that idea thanks Tom. One question if you have a munter mule on the lower anchor when you cut the webbing do you just leave that munter mule? You can't remove it can you?

I was wondering the same thing
06-24-2009, 11:39 AM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiecutter

Quote:

I like that idea thanks Tom. One question if you have a munter mule on the lower anchor when you cut the webbing do you just leave that munter mule? You can't remove it can you?

I was wondering the same thing

You're doing a rescue - you're in a hurry. You leave it. It might bung the rope when it goes over the edge, but at least it is near the end. You remove the parts that come off easy, so that they don't fall down and hurt anyone, but otherwise, you just send it down.

Unless, it's going to get jammed in a crack or something, in which case, this quick and dirty method does not work. Gotta get the biner off, and even then, the knot might cause problems...

Tom :moses:
06-24-2009, 11:46 AM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcwild

But what if ... You believe the rappel is about 95 feet, so you feed out 95 feet of rope and rig your releasable system. You believe the 105 feet of rope in your rope bag is sufficient. But your depth perception failed you. The rappel is actually 130 feet. Your buddy gets in trouble just 20 feet below you, so you need to lower him 110 feet (let's assume you don't know how to rig a haul system). You only have 70 feet of rope left in your bag.

You release your system and start lowering. 70 feet or rope passes through your hand. You're at the end of the rope and your buddy is still not all the way down to the ground. What do you do? For the sake of the scenario, you can assume you have a second rope.

I'll play, whip out your prussic, tibloc, ropeman, attach to your rappel rope. Take either acc. cord or end of your other rope and rig a mariner hitch or add another munter hitch to your rope attachment. For this example lets just use a mariner hitch. Now lower your original rope and load the mariner hitch. If you want to back all of this up tie a figure eight in your original rappel rope and clip it to the anchor. Once the mariner is loaded you can now tie your two rope ends together, now re rig with knot below munter. Release the mariner to load original rope and continue on.

If I followed the scenario right that is what I would do. Or as Shane said if your second rope is long enough you could just lower a carabiner down to him. Have him clip in rig on a munter and then lower him. Your going to have a mess when the other rope goes free but he would get down.

Mark

I'm in a hurry.

I lower until the knot is close to sticking. Oops, need more rope. Tie off Rope#1 with a mule at the munter hitch. Toss another sling around the tree with a ring and biner, up higher and tighter than the first anchor. Tie Rope #1 to Rope #2. Set up Rope #2 with a munter hitch for lowering, and pull it out snug. Whip out my handy universal-knot-untier and cut the sling on the lower anchor, continue the lower.

Tom

Actually, you may have noticed a problem here. As stated, the bottom biner will have a munter AND mule on it, then tensioned up to the knot then the second munter. My BAD!

So, WHEN you "pull it all snug", you will want to pull the mule on the bottom munter, then take the slack out onto the second munter. Then cut the sling and you will have the biner stuck on the rope, but only the biner. Pull the webbing off the biner, careful not to drop the ring.

Tom
06-24-2009, 12:56 PM
moab mark

With two guys on top you wouldn't even need a mule knot. When you get close have the extra guy hold the original munter. Tie the two ropes together. Set the knot right against new anchor-munter. Then let bottom one down till loads top one cut webbing continue.
Your ring or rapide would stay with the lower biner.

It's a slick concept Tom. You also never take a chance of having your rappeller hanging on a prussic-mariner etc.
Thanks.

Mark
06-25-2009, 06:20 PM
rcwild

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

You're doing a rescue - you're in a hurry. You leave it.

When doing a rescue ... go slow to go fast. Slow and deliberate. Mistakes from rushing may cost more time in the long run.
06-25-2009, 06:37 PM
theking648

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcwild

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

You're doing a rescue - you're in a hurry. You leave it.

When doing a rescue ... go slow to go fast. Slow and deliberate. Mistakes from rushing may cost more time in the long run.

we have the same quote for our BITD off road team.. slower is faster. the faster you go the better your chances are for breaking something.

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