Spry canyon 8/18/07

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Originally Posted by chabidiah

Maybe in the guide books where it reads "4th class slick rock", it should have a side note that says(4th class slick rock aka: "Backside of Hell") All in all the beta we had was good, we just didn't expect to be climbing that slick rock in the hottest part of the day. Which I'm sure made a big difference in the amount of time it took us to get to the ridge. But I bought Tom's book at ZAC and read it all the way home. I thought it was interesting how he had accident reports in the back of the book. It's crazy what a danger inexperience can be in the canyons.
We are talking about taking a trip down Kolob Creek next year, looks awesome. I would love to read some TR's if anyone has the energy to send me the links, I'm really lazy....

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Actually, I would say that the beta you had was not so good. You got lost following it, ipso facto, ta da, whatever!

"Best done in spring or fall, or with an early start in summer".

Ummmm, how do I say this politely. Ummmm, wait, which forum am I on? OK, no need. If'n you don't want to make the back of the second edition, you might want to develop some more skills before tackling something substantial like Kolob.

My first reaction to your trip report is: Great Pictures!, lots of water! Looks like you had lots of fun. But you also rapped a couple spots where it is easier to downclimb, took a really long time, and missed a couple of tricks. (Although, admittedly, *tricks* are my forte, and with 10+ trips through Spry, I know ALL the tricks).

So, just some friendly advice. Spry is a nice, easy, half-day canyon. When it is a nice, easy, half-day canyon for you, then you might be up for a full-day canyon like Kolob. I know you already know this, but working your way through the easy stuff to develop your skills is a good idea. Jumping into the bigees because you want them really bad - not a good idea.

Tom

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Originally Posted by Jaxx

yep 9 hrs. Others have said that we could have shaved off an hour on the approach if we went the right way. There are some semi technical double raps in there that took a little extra time. there are also 11 or so raps and 3 or 4 of them are doubles.
Also, we hiked up to the upper parking lot at the end, not down to the pinecreek TH one to hitch our ride.

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Longest rap other than the first is the last, at about 95 feet.

Total rap count "usual route" is 10. From the pictures, looks like you rapped two additional places.

Not to say you should not have. You should do what is appropriate for your group, and what is appropriate for your skills and basically any way you want to just because you want to. Free country, all that (though the canyon will cost you a couple bucks).

Tom

Here's hoping we can legally descend kolob sometime soon

Wow, friendly group eh? Whatever... :blahblah:

:ne_nau:

beta was good! map reading skills...not so good. plus we thought we spotted the trail head the night before in the dark. thought it would save time in the morning. :nono: I guess it was not such a good idea.. live and learn... :mrgreen:

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

So, just some friendly advice. Spry is a nice, easy, half-day canyon. When it is a nice, easy, half-day canyon for you, then you might be up for a full-day canyon like Kolob. I know you already know this, but working your way through the easy stuff to develop your skills is a good idea. Jumping into the bigees because you want them really bad - not a good idea.

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Good advice.

But, 9 hours, car to car, with a larger group? That's not terrible. Two extra rappels? Ehhh, I dunno.

When Tom and I (and Mel, our savior that trip on a chilly december day, as he was the only one with any cold water protection: dry suit) did Spry, onsite, so to speak, we were 7 hours car to car with a hiking diversion at the end of the trip. So, really only about 5.5 hours to the last rappel finish. And, was significant ice on the first rappel that took us some time to negotiate. Can't recall exactly how much beta we had, but, I don't think any of us had done it before. We had word-of-mouth beta? Something along those lines. And we rappelled 10 times.

Being climbers, we kinda nailed the approach, but, weren't going to be denied if it got a bit harder either. For most non climbers, 4th class should be hard, especially to down climb. Heck, it is for me usually.

We rappelled 180 feet on the first rappel to avoid ice in the potholes.

Balance of the rappels were all single rope (single 60m). 90 feet the longest.

So, I dunno. How does one decide when one is ready for stepping it up? Kolob isn't that hard a canyon in "easy" conditions (ie, low flow, long day light, no wierd conditions requiring extra effort). Much longer cold water exposure. And, depending on how you exit, a loooong day (or two full days) either way (MIA or the beauty of hiking out the bottom to the Temple of S.).

One thing about Kolob...it'd be much harder in the dark. So, moving slow isn't optimal in that canyon. If you did get benighted, then, you'd just get that much slower, and, because your in the water so much, colder too. Kolob tends to be a canyon where you want to err on the side of caution and stack the deck in your favor. Get a really early start. Move efficiently and quickly. And, try to go as light as possible (ie, trim the overnight gear to the essentials. Maybe leave those three pairs of blue jeans home this trip).

Anyhoo, some thoughts...

-Brian in SLC

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Actually, I would say that the beta you had was not so good. You got lost following it, ipso facto, ta da, whatever!

"Best done in spring or fall, or with an early start in summer".

Ummmm, how do I say this politely. Ummmm, wait, which forum am I on? OK, no need. If'n you don't want to make the back of the second edition, you might want to develop some more skills before tackling something substantial like Kolob.

My first reaction to your trip report is: Great Pictures!, lots of water! Looks like you had lots of fun. But you also rapped a couple spots where it is easier to downclimb, took a really long time, and missed a couple of tricks. (Although, admittedly, *tricks* are my forte, and with 10+ trips through Spry, I know ALL the tricks).

So, just some friendly advice. Spry is a nice, easy, half-day canyon. When it is a nice, easy, half-day canyon for you, then you might be up for a full-day canyon like Kolob. I know you already know this, but working your way through the easy stuff to develop your skills is a good idea. Jumping into the bigees because you want them really bad - not a good idea.

Tom

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I dont pretend to be a canyon pro. I will openly admit that I am a noob. Spry was my 5th canyon.
I should point out that we take our time on purpose through the canyons. Stopping to take pictures, a really long lunch, enjoy the scenery, etc.

Chabadiah is defininetly a better climber than I am. I remember a couple spots that we talked about down climbing but decided to rap because we couldn't spot our wives because of the height or water being at the bottom and floating while spotting doesn't work to well. That doesn't mean that I think I am a good down climber. I need to work on, well everything.

I was told from a little bird that it took you 8 hours to get through the canyon with the group this person was in. I guess a big difference is made by what the group consists of.

I suppose if Chabadiah and I went we could probably do it faster. Me being the one to slow him down, but again I don't like to rush in canyons. I only get to do a few might as well make a day out of it.

All in all we had an awesome trip. I do appreciate your input and criticism, there may be better ways for you to express it but to each his own. I am a big boy I can handle it. I know I need it.
I would love to go through some canyons with you and learn your tricks some day. Actually there are quite a few people on here that I would love to meet in person and learn from them. Most of the people on here to be honest. And if anyone wants to point out a few things we could change then post up or PM me, I would love to hear it.

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Originally Posted by Jaxx

And if anyone wants to point out a few things we could change then post up or PM me, I would love to hear it.

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Well, ok them. Kinda fun. Neat that you invite comments. Take them with a grain.

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We woke up at about 6 am to some sprinkles so we through all our stuff in the car and pulled a tarp over us and went back to sleep. We were worried about the forecast of 40% chance of rain.

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I guess I'm pretty conservative. That might be too much of a forecast for me to go down a technical slot canyon. That said, you guys watched the weather and whether you knew it or not, that canyon doesn't have a huge drainage system way out of view (or, way upstream). So, if you had to roll the dice on the weather, its not a bad row to hoe.

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It took us a couple of hours to get breakfast and put all our gear back together and we were at the Spry trailhead at about 10 am.

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Bit late for a start on a new canyon (ok, same time as us and with more daylight, so, pot-kettle-black!).

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I couldn't figure out the terrain from my topo map. I am not very good at reading them in the first place but usually I can make sense of it.

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My opinion, and, I'm not a map readin' expert, but, the terrain for Spry is really simple as far as topo maps and navigating go. I'd highly suggest a tad more map work, or, finding someone who can mentor you a tad and show you features, map, features, ect. Some more experience. Its fun!

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We eventually made it back down to our car and started on the right path at 11 AM.

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This is most unmale-esque and might get you barred from some he-man type clubs. But...wow, great decision. I hardly ever go back to the start, but, stubbornly charge ahead. Kudos.

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Get an early start the 4th class pitches last for about 2 1/2 hours.

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The 4th class seemed pretty short to me. Everyone in the group should feel comfy on this terrain. Mighta takin' some unnessessary risk with downclimbing the center of the bowl. I kinda wonder what the "penalty points" were. What if...someone had fallen? Did you guys anchor and belay people? Maybe something to consider.

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After we found it we noticed a cairn and were happy that we were on the right track.

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Can mean the opposite. As pointed out earlier in this thread.

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We ate lunch at the first rap and watched the clouds. We felt good about it so I set up the first "rap" with our two 60 m ropes.

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Yeah, but. Always a tough call. I got nailed the other night (on Devil's Castle here in the Wasatch) thinkin' the clouds were going to miss me. Nah, didn't. Pretty hard to accurately predict especially from in a canyon, methinks. I'm a worry wart when it comes to flash floods, and, microburst type activity can be swift, severe and come out of no where. Convervative approach means sometimes making the decision to go another day.

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At the bottom of the 9th rap there is a large pothole that is very shallow, like ankle deep. I walked to the end of it and noticed a bunch of rope burns over the side. I could not find any anchors. At first I thought to tie the two 60m ropes we had. I didn't think that would be a good pull though. There is a large chunk of rock that was sticking out on the left side that I could see a rope burn on. I was going to set up some webbing for an anchor there but when I climbed to the top of the ledge on the left I notice there was already an anchor about 15 feet to the south on two trees.

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Good work. I like having a good idear where the next rappel is before I finish the one I'm at, but, you did good finding the anchor. I think sometimes folks get in trouble when they set their own anchors, as, a bunch of "stuff" can start going wrong. Uhhh, like Employee (aka Lodge) Canyon, right next door. Missing a rap anchor there might be fatal (and has been in the past).

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We raced back to the ZAC and made it at about 8:57.

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Kind of a late finish and not much margin for error. Earlier start, and, if you need to reload and loose some time, sometimes its better to bail and do it the next day (or trip) than try to finish. Coming out in the dark is much more risky, especially finishing on a loose, steep slope where its hard to see rockfall, etc.

Couple of other comments from looking quickly at some of the pictures.

How much emergency or standard gear do you guys each carry on your harnesses when you're rappelling? I didn't see much. Could you stop in mid rappel and rig for ascent, if need be? Could you anchor in to the next anchor if required? As a standard, I always carry a set of Prusik loops, and several shoulder length slings and a few carabiners on my harness, at the ready, able to grab them with either hand. Also, an extra rap device in the group is a good idear. Anyone have a knife stowed on their person? Also, where was the position of the spare (backup) rope compared to the team position? Always ready to help, or, down first (or second) where its not as deployable in an emergency?

Looked like a great trip. Thanks for opening up for discussion and criticism. Take 'er with a grain of sand(stone) and make it fun.

Cheers!

-Brian in SLC

Thanks Brian.

The late start had us a little worried as well. We planned on waking up at about 6 am but since it was raining with 40% rain in the forcast we weren't to hopefull about doing the canyon that day. We woke up about an hour later and we had blue skies. perfectly clear. I have to admit, I am glad we slept in, since we did Keyhole late the night before and got to sleep around 1 am I was happy to have the extra hour.

We planned on having all our gear ready to get a quick start but since doing keyhole we wanted to dry out everything that we could.

I usually do pretty well with topo maps. When we went in the wrong drain I just had a map of the pine creek area. That is why I couldn't find it on my map. I should have gotten out my big National Geographic map from the start, live and learn. That is why it took us so long on the hike in, I think we should have stayed in the creek bed a little longer, now I know.

The 4th class pitches weren't really a scary problem. We didn't deploy any ropes on the way up, none of us were worried about it. Do people usually tie together or something like that on the way up?


My wife and I always carry 2 prussic loops on us they are hanging on our harnesses. I usually have a sling or two as well but I just had the one on me that I was using to hook to anchors. Chabadiah and his wife had knives on their harnesses. We all had an extra biner or two with us. I usually carry more on me but didn't this time. Because of your recommendation I always will now, plus it looks cooler.

We usually had the second rope (me) in the back, but a few times we did have one rope in front of us while others were rapping. I didn't think about needing a second rope at the top. I was just usually last and Chabadiah used his rope and I had mine on me. We are lucky we didn't need it and I was at the bottom. I will be more aware of that now. Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by chabidiah

Wow, friendly group eh? Whatever... :blahblah:

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Don't mind the ratagonia...he's done everything in Zion backwards and with his eyes closed....not to mention Heaps + Imlay in less than 24 hours. He's a walking Zion encyclopedia...he gives good advice, but admittedly can come across callous at times. Don't take it personal - we've all borne the brunt of his axe at some point...it's almost like initiation.

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Originally Posted by rockgremlin

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Originally Posted by chabidiah

Wow, friendly group eh? Whatever... :blahblah:

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Don't mind the ratagonia...he's done everything in Zion backwards and with his eyes closed....not to mention Heaps + Imlay in less than 24 hours. He's a walking Zion encyclopedia...he gives good advice, but admittedly can come across callous at times. Don't take it personal - we've all borne the brunt of his axe at some point...it's almost like initiation.

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Yep. I got e-smacked twice in one day from two different posts by the emperor. Except I never got free gear... dang. :haha: Tom knows his stuff. Just swallow a bit of male ego and you really can learn from what he is saying. :2thumbs:

Well, at least we didn't get our ropes stuck... could have been worse :haha:

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Originally Posted by Brian in SLC

But, 9 hours, car to car, with a larger group? That's not terrible. Two extra rappels? Ehhh, I dunno.

When Tom and I (and Mel, our savior that trip on a chilly december day, as he was the only one with any cold water protection: dry suit) did Spry, onsite, so to speak, we were 7 hours car to car with a hiking diversion at the end of the trip. So, really only about 5.5 hours to the last rappel finish. And, was significant ice on the first rappel that took us some time to negotiate. Can't recall exactly how much beta we had, but, I don't think any of us had done it before. We had word-of-mouth beta? Something along those lines. And we rappelled 10 times.

Being climbers, we kinda nailed the approach, but, weren't going to be denied if it got a bit harder either. For most non climbers, 4th class should be hard, especially to down climb. Heck, it is for me usually.

We rappelled 180 feet on the first rappel to avoid ice in the potholes.

Balance of the rappels were all single rope (single 60m). 90 feet the longest.

-Brian in SLC

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For our trip, I had done it once before, in mid-summer, a couple years prior. So, Yeah, I had done it ONCE, but with my memory, that's pretty close to on-sight.

Our first rap was the same as usual first rap these days, with is 180'. If you rap 165' you are at the other edge of that second pothole.

Was I in a surly mood or what?

Tom

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Originally Posted by rockgremlin

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Originally Posted by chabidiah

Wow, friendly group eh? Whatever... :blahblah:

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Don't mind the ratagonia...he's done everything in Zion backwards and with his eyes closed....not to mention Heaps + Imlay in less than 24 hours. He's a walking Zion encyclopedia...he gives good advice, but admittedly can come across callous at times. Don't take it personal - we've all borne the brunt of his axe at some point...it's almost like initiation.

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Yeah, yeah. Thanks, I guess. I also get cranky once in a while.

The main point I was TRYING to make is, Spry is a great canyon, but it is not particularly long or difficult. If'n you worked hard to get through it in 9 hrs car to car, then you need to work on skills and proficiency before stepping up to bigger projects like Kolob.

And thanks, Brian, for taking this poorly prepared noob through Kolob. We had a great time, and I learned a lot (like, a "shortee", even two of them, is not the same as a "wetsuit").

Tom

that is pretty funny because I got Esmacked from Tom on my first post as well. It was a little different because well you can just look it up under "Wayne County Search and Rescue", but I very much appreciate being helped out by the seniors on here! I really look forward to going through some canyons with the veterans of bogley!! Thank you to everyone who posts and helps the noobs get there baring. I really love reading about all of the cool canyons that everyone has done and I really like the criticism that we all get. It is pretty hard to take it sometimes because of that dang male-ego, but I really do appreciate it. THANKS :nod:

I didn't even mention the trip report! Thanks Jaxx that was an awesome TR! I love reading your TRs because they are always so detailed and give you a very good image of what is happening. That sounds like a really good canyon for noobs....... I will have to go in there and take my wife too!!

worth a read again? :naughty:

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

worth a read again? :naughty:

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Since you posed that as a question, I will answer. No.

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Originally Posted by Jaxx

Since you posed that as a question, I will answer. No.

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Actually, I did re-read and it was worth it. Of course being trapped in the car for five hours is motivating.

:-)