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A few things I found interesting......
When I originally corresponded with Mike Bogart back in 2006 he told me that during his first Heaps descent, on September 23, 24, 25 1981, with Dennis Turville, that they rappelled the watercourse and not the bird perch. His exact quote was
Sure, I am in the process of getting them from either my Grandma or my Aunt Val, who was Norman Hardings wife.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
Hey, thanks. These are all great things. I love hearing the stories about my grandpa. He did a lot of climbing out in Hawaii too. I've seen a lot of the pictures and you could tell he had good taste in scenery. Zions was his home though. He loved Springdale so much, he built a lot of houses there. If you ever know of anybody that spoke with him, or climbed with him, please let me know.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan
Your grandpa's old pictures and diaries could be a gold mine of information on the early years of canyoneering. Anything you want to contribute is extremely welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by j_trapier_w
And welcome to the group....
:2thumbs:
Thought I'd add the definitive comment. I'm "J"s dad, Royce's son-in-law and I also did some rappelling in Zion with Royce, though not Heap's.
Dennis Turville, has a log at:
http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/ca...le/?i=turville
where he lays claim to creating the route, but gives credit to Royce and Norm for the first complete decent:
October 15
Hey, welcome to bogley you guys. :mrgreen:
Lin speaks fondly of Royce - not sure how much they actually did together. His contact info:Quote:
Originally Posted by j_trapier_w
lin alder
435.632.8433
lin@alderphoto.com
140 Juniper Lane
p.o. box 69
Springdale, Utah 84767
Bump - for Jenny!
Bump!
I bumped this thread because of the recent interest in to movie Gorging. The thread has some interesting history in it for those that enjoy that type of stuff.
Combined with the watercourse exit, right? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Here's Trappier's trip report: a fun read even now...
http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/history/heaps82.htm
Tom
Even by his own admission, he and Harding skipped sections. I thought his claim to the first descent lay in his assertion that they did the "whole" thing first. Turville and Bogart concocted the final rap sequence. In my mind, the FD goes to Turville and Bogart.
Harrowing tales none-the-less.
I love hearing these old stories. They remind me of the stories my dad used to tell me about new routes in the Wasatch and unbeta'ed climbs in the Tetons that he and his friend did in the early 80's. I remember seeing all my dad's filthy climbing gear in our house when I was barely old enough to remember. If we had lived in Southern Utah, I like to imagine that my dad would have been in the company of these legends, a true adventurer. I love the nostalgia.
FWIW- according to my conversations with Bogart they did not pioneer the current bird perch exit sequence everyone uses today, but instead they rappeled the true watercress in one continues 450' exit rappel. I don't know who established the bird perch exit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootboy
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
I work with an older gentleman who claims to have done the first descent of Kolob in 1967.
Has anyone else ever heard of a group that claims to have done this 11 years before Turville?
This guy is in his late 70s - early 80s and still does quite a bit of backpacking, though his canyon days are behind him. I don't have any reason to think this guy is lying and have never heard him boast of anything else.
In your minds, what would he need to produce in order to "document" his first descent and re-write the canyoneering history book?
His "unsuccessful attempt", written up and tucked in the pages of the "Black Binder" is what stimulated my first descent of Heaps in '94'?. I also spent the night at the "Crossroads". Subsequent trips through have been very enjoyable ranging from 3 days down to a 9Hr. trip. Still one of the most "Classic" routes in Zion me-thinks?Quote:
Originally Posted by ratagonia
Most definitely a great route.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo_Beck
9 hrs? Holy crap! We did it in 15 and were flyin.
I recall Jared Campbell thinkin' if folks got serious about it (ie, him...ha ha), it'd go sub 5. He and crew have done it in around 7 hours and did it in 7:38 AFTER a full Imlay descent (with both canyons total time under 15 hours).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootboy
I know the Zion local guys routinely do it in 8-9 hours. I've never done it in a day. That might be fun...hmmm...
I would say the first step would be to post his personal account where it is accessible to those interested. Pictures would help but not exactly required. It's never too late to write a trip report :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by canyoncaver
When it comes to "firsts" there is always going to be controversy, but it's good to have all available information to allow others to form there own opinion.
And I would not do this project with the thought of re-writing the history books. I would approach it as here is some additional information that has recently come to light. I would just state this is what we did, how we did it and when we did it.
On a side note I read the book "True North" which details the controversy over who was the first man to actually reach the north pole. It's a really good read for anyone interested.
FWIW this is not what Bogart's detailed notes say regarding their first descent..Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
How has no one mentioned that these guys may have "fiddlesticked" the last drop in Heaps??? See below......
We had developed a system whereby we could tie our 150 ft. and 165 ft. eleven mill ropes together and retrieve them by pulling a release with a parachute cord of the same length. Norman went off first with everything in place plus the tail of the rope was tied onto the slings as a safety feature. If it worked, without showing any sign of premature release, I would untie the safety side and follow. At 150 feet, he had to set etrias and pass the knot. This was not a problem. However, the parachute cord became badly tangled with the rappel rope from 150 feet down. He had to stand in his etrias in soft-soled shoes and work the two ropes apart. This took almost an hour, and he was exhausted upon reaching the ground. During this time, I had been studying our release mechanism. It seemed to be solid, however, the idea of it was somewhat intimidating for sure. Once Norm was down, and before I untied the safety side, he pulled on the cord, and the release part of the system seemed to function satisfactorily. After the first 10 feet, I was over the edge and never thought again about it.