A discussion about Guns

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Originally Posted by Udink

Do you, then, advocate that all seat belts be removed from motor vehicles? I wear my seat belt because it gives me some control over what would otherwise be out of my control (other peoples' actions, death).

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I didn't think of it that way. That's a hard one but I think my statement still stands. Yes, always wearing your seatbelt will reduce you chances of getting killed or injured in auto accidents. But comparing a gun to a seatbelt drives to the heart of the debate.

Does having a gun reduce the chance of getting injured in some sort of a personal attack? I don't think so. Why? Because increasing the numbers of deadly weapons into a highly charged situation is only going to increase the likelihood of injury to all parties.

Is there situations where pulling a gun on your attacker will stop the attack? Yes of course there is. But that is risky because if they call your bluff then one of you is likely going to be badly hurt or dead. I guess I'm not willing to find out. I'd rather try to find the solution that leads to everyone being alive.

Now all the gun lovers are going to say what about when its life and death? I would say that makes up the smallest percentage of all the possible cases and shouldn't be used as the model to govern all situations.

That's my opinion anyways.

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Originally Posted by Udink

I'd like to know where you really stand on this issue. ... rather than to stimulate an intelligent discussion (which I believe you are incapable of).

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Do you even care what I really think? Or is it all too unintelligible.


James

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Originally Posted by James_B_Wads2000

Is there situations where pulling a gun on your attacker will stop the attack? Yes of course there is. But that is risky because if they call your bluff then one of you is likely going to be badly hurt or dead. I guess I'm not willing to find out. I'd rather try to find the solution that leads to everyone being alive.

Now all the gun lovers are going to say what about when its life and death? I would say that makes up the smallest percentage of all the possible cases and shouldn't be used as the model to govern all situations.

James

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This is pretty much my stance also. I think 99.9% of all situations can be resolved by means other than deadly force.

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You anti-gun nut liberals just kill me. Can we please just ban cell phones. I've had a lot more people almost kill me with their cars + a pleasant cell phone conversation than with guns. Accidental or not. Can the liberals just cede from the union, and try to fight off the french pussies when they come to take them over? Ha ha You really shouldn't take a stance on anything though. You might be offending someone. Oh right, as long as its just white males, they don't count. They need to be repaying all of the wrongs that their ancestors did to a bunch of people who couldn't stand up for themselves. Isn't evolution a generally accepted liberal principle, perhaps Darwinism? Survival of the fittest? Well, I'm the fittest and I'm going to kick your ass. How do you feel about that?

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Thats freaking hilarious. Its about time someone just told things how they are. Thats really all it is too, people getting offended about one thing or another, and its really just a bunch of bs. By the way, you can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands, and i'm not even a redneck or a gangbanger. Good, law-abiding citizens own firearms too, you know.

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Murder is sick no matter how you justify it.

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This is true, murder is definately sick no matter how you justify it. But is killing someone who is putting your own or your loved one's lives at danger murder? No. Its self defense. Also, is the world really going to suffer if gun owners blast a few potential rapists and murderers? Nope, we'll all be better off with those people permanantly removed from the world. This is the same reason that i'm strongly in favor of the death penalty, but thats a whole different issue.

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Originally Posted by icthys

If I'm going to be raped (I hope it's that Sam chick on Las Vegas) she would take me from behind slap me upside the head, and other things.

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You sick puppy.... :getiton: :roflol:

Anyone find these emoticons offensive??? :assault: :rifle: :defend:
Just trying light things up a bit.......... :popcorn:

I'm still trying to figure out what this guy is shooting at.

:defend:

What is that thing?!

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Originally Posted by rockgremlin

I'm still trying to figure out what this guy is shooting at.

:defend:

What is that thing?!

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Looks like a missile or something? Are you offended? :lol8:

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Originally Posted by accadacca

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Originally Posted by rockgremlin

I'm still trying to figure out what this guy is shooting at.

:defend:

What is that thing?!

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Looks like a missile or something? Are you offended? :lol8:

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I'm terribly offended... at the color of the yellow smiley face. :haha:

I think he's shooting down a "scud" missle. Maybe he's got a miniature Patriot missile gun.

Patriot missile. Now there's a firearm up for debate.

Well, we've definitely got some strong views out there, and I think that's good.

Let me ask everybody a question, and let's pretend that we're all "neutral" on the subject, if it were possible.

If for some reason, it became illegal to own a firearm, what would be the best method for "collecting" the guns?

Something to think about, and this is an honest question. The answers to this won't necessarily have any bias to your opinion on guns. I just want to know if you guys have ever thought if it would even be possible to get rid of guns.

This is a fair question for "both" sides to think about. If you are "anti gun", you may have an idea on how to get rid of them. If you are "pro gun", you should have some opinions on why it wouldn't work.

Would it be possible to get rid of guns? :ne_nau:

Let's hear 'em.

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Originally Posted by Sombeech

Let me ask everybody a question, and let's pretend that we're all "neutral" on the subject, if it were possible.

If for some reason, it became illegal to own a firearm, what would be the best method for "collecting" the guns?

Something to think about, and this is an honest question. The answers to this won't necessarily have any bias to your opinion on guns. I just want to know if you guys have ever thought if it would even be possible to get rid of guns.

This is a fair question for "both" sides to think about. If you are "anti gun", you may have an idea on how to get rid of them. If you are "pro gun", you should have some opinions on why it wouldn't work.

Would it be possible to get rid of guns? :ne_nau:

Let's hear 'em.

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Considering that right now it's illegal for drug users and convicted felons to own or possess firearms, and the government is almost completely ineffective at preventing it from happening, then it goes without saying that it would be impossible for them to get rid of all guns, including those now legally owned and possessed.

As for people who are currently law-abiding firearm owners, I can only speak for myself as to what would happen if the government suddenly made firearms illegal. I would become a criminal instantly, and I would remain that way until the day I die.

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Originally Posted by Udink

Considering that right now it's illegal for drug users and convicted felons to own or possess firearms, and the government is almost completely ineffective at preventing it from happening.

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That's a good point. But is there something out there that the government hasn't tried yet?

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Originally Posted by James

Internet being society... that's a hard one for me to swallow, but I'll give it to you.

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Off topic, but I guess the fact that I personally know many of the people on this forum, and don't rule out the possibility of meeting more of you kind of puts it into perspective. Internet isn't society but its a real part of it, and its just as real of a form of communication as any other-- some people still don't get that and spout off all kinds of BS.

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Originally Posted by James

But in the end I don't make apologies for the impression I give people. Nor do I give a shit about what people think of me. I am what you see. I don't put on different faces to make friends.
James

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I do agree with you that you should be the person you are and not call someone something on the internet that you wouldn't call them to their face.

Back on guns, I'm like Justin, the few guns I own are only useful in hunting and target practice, and get taken out about once a year. Using them in self defense isn't really an option, considering how locked away they are. I don't own a hand gun and would hate to be faced with the decision of whether to shoot someone or not, for me its not really an option. Violence in general sucks.

We were a non-gun household up until this summer. My hubby got his dad's old gun shipped out here from N.J. I am not too crazy about it, but not anti-gun enough to kick him and his gun out of the house or anything. But I'm not going to speak for him, he will say something totally different I'm sure.


That's about it, so perhaps I'm neutral. I probably should learn how to check if the safety is on and that stuff since it is in my home.

Better yet, Shan, take a state/NRA approved gun saftey course.
I encourage anyone who owns one to do so.

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Originally Posted by JamisJockey

I encourage anyone who owns one to do so.

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And even those of you who don't own one, but are concerned about gun safety.

We each have our own ideas about "which is more safe", to have a gun, or not? And this answer gives us our viewpoint about firearms.

My prior scenario about getting rid of guns was to make a point; that point being we can see that guns will NEVER disappear, whether the government steps in or not.

There will ALWAYS be guns. Always.

So, what should we do about it? Should we try to avoid them our whole lives? We know the criminals have them, and use them.

Why not even the playing field? Owning a gun doesn't mean you have to use it. You can still choose to leave it in your holster while you are getting mugged or beaten. Really.

I haven't heard many stories where the gun gets taken away from the owner's hand, and used against him. That only happens in the movies when the chick stalls on shooting the bad guy. I've heard many more stories of somebody defending themselves with it, and after a non violent exchange, going safely back to their home with their family.

My suggestion is that everybody RESPONSIBLY own a gun, and you can choose to use it or NOT in the situation of your choice. Don't be scared that it will be used against you. No offense to anybody, but that's really just in the movies.

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Originally Posted by Sombeech

We each have our own ideas about "which is more safe", to have a gun, or not? And this answer gives us our viewpoint about firearms.

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Umm . . . That's not really a very good question at all. That's like saying what's safer, using a saw or not? Driving a car or sitting on your ass at home? Maybe we should all live in big padded plastic bubbles. I could probably live a lot longer if I didn't canyoneer, mt. bike, cave, climb, etc. It's not about what's safe. It's about personal responsibility

That's what all politics need to be about. Taking some personal responsibility. That's why people left Europe, that's why they fought for independence. Granted, government is necessary to protect individual rights, but the United States government does not exist to take responsibility for your actions or mine. The Government is not a scape goat. (or as I like to say, an "escaped goat") :roflol:

Anyway, Sorry to bag on your question Sombeech. I'm generally on your side of the debate here. Just thought that was a little soft. I'm going to go inside and shut myself off from the dangerous world now. :doorpeak:

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So, what should we do about it? Should we try to avoid them our whole lives? We know the criminals have them, and use them.

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It's actually been proven that in states where conceal-carry permits are allowed, violent crime has gone down. It's also important to note that in many many cases where guns are used to kill an acquaintance, those acquaintances are members of rival gangs.


Self-defense is not murder. James--if it is, then all our soldiers are murderers.

Violence never solves anything. Then what solved Hitler?

Here's a scenario for you. Tell me what you'd do: Let's say you're asleep in your bed, and your daughters are asleep in another bedroom ala Elizabeth Smart. But, unlike Ed Smart, you actually hear the window to your daughter's room open, hear her struggling and screaming. Do you call 911? Or do you rush in there with whatever weapon you happen to have on hand? Pu**ies would call 911, lowering their voice, trying not to draw the attackers attention to them while they cowered in their room. Real fathers would attack the attacker. Now, you go into the daughter's room and the guy has her by the arm and is trying to drag her out the window.
Do you say "now now, you don't really want to do that. Come on now Mr. Mitchell, you're a nice man let go of my daughter"? Well, let's say you try that and it works. He lets her go, then comes at you with his gun or knife. Do you keep sweet-talking him or do you blow him away?

Or how about this: you stumble across a sniper with his rifle trained on a school yard down below. Do you wave your arms and yell at him, telling him what he's doing is wrong? If so, he'll kill you first, then kill the kids. If you happened to have the means to kill him to stop him from killing the kids would you? Or would you not do it, because you'd be as bad as he is for murdering someone?


Okay, I like guns and I own them--and I don't like being called a pu**y for it. In fact, those saying that should probably not say it, because some people might ask you to prove it. Not me. I believe every word you say.

Shane

A 1 ounce slug between the nipples would have taken care of Mr. Mitchell nicely.

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Originally Posted by price1869

Anyway, Sorry to bag on your question Sombeech. I'm generally on your side of the debate here. Just thought that was a little soft.

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I know, dude. I'm moderating this mutha, so I'm trying to stay a little neutral.

Just so everybody knows, I have my concealed weapons permit. I fully support the responsible handling of firearms. They will always be around, so I think it's best to get over it. Conquer your fear of the gun by learning about them.

If you still don't want to use them, that's fine. Neither do I!! But buy one anyways to educate yourself.

I know this is a little far-fetched, but if the day ever came that some of the sleeper cells of terrorists ran through my neck of the woods, beheading my friends and neighbors, and the cops were pre-occupied elsewhere--say a huge attack downtown--I'd like to take my chances with a gun, instead of a broom, a shovel, or a mop. Would I gun down Osama in the street if I ever got the chance? You bet I would--and then I'd take my chances with God later.

On another point--when gun violence stats are measured, rarely is society as a whole taken into account. Why do people act stupidly and leave their guns where children can find them? Why do young people committ suicide? What is the underlying cause of gang involvement? The answers to these kinds of questions could provide solutions to the disease and not just the symptoms.

Shane