President Trump

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

All my employees received one full months wage for their Christmas bonus. It's been a couple years since we have been able to be so generous.

I guess I should mention to them that Trump is partially responsible for the bonus as a couple of them were big Hillary supporters.

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We had a young intern that was a big Bernie supporter. She was so mad that we had Fox News playing the conference room all the time that she eventually quit. She was bright and fun to work with but completely intolerant of any ones views, politically, that were different that what she believed. Really weird. She would essentially foam at the mouth when discussing Trump and could not believe that most of us had voted for him over Hillary. She was so certain Hillary was going to win that she'd been rubbing it in our faces and had a huge Hillary party on election night with a cake and Hillary shirts. One of the sweetest moments of my life was walking into the office the next day and seeing her eyes were red from crying all night. I ordered Trump bobble head the next day and put it in the break room, she quit shortly after that.

I can't tell you how much I love that story. <3

Think some of this annual expense being cut, might help our debt?

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Originally Posted by nelsonccc

We had a young intern that was a big Bernie supporter. She was so mad that we had Fox News playing the conference room all the time that she eventually quit. She was bright and fun to work with but completely intolerant of any ones views, politically, that were different that what she believed. Really weird. She would essentially foam at the mouth when discussing Trump and could not believe that most of us had voted for him over Hillary. She was so certain Hillary was going to win that she'd been rubbing it in our faces and had a huge Hillary party on election night with a cake and Hillary shirts. One of the sweetest moments of my life was walking into the office the next day and seeing her eyes were red from crying all night. I ordered Trump bobble head the next day and put it in the break room, she quit shortly after that.

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Might be one of the best Bogley TR's ever posted to date...:2thumbs:

The unofficial list helps to counter the impression in the mainstream media and among congressional Democrats that outside the approval of Supreme Court Neil Gorsuch and passage of the tax reform bill little was done.
Administrations typically tout their achievements broadly at the end of each year, but Trump plans to list jobs added, regulations killed, foreign policy victories won, and moves to help veterans and even drug addicts.
And in a sign of support for conservatives, the White House also is highlighting achievements for the pro-life community.
Below are the 12 categories and 81 wins cited by the White House.
Jobs and the economy

• Passage of the tax reform bill providing $5.5 billion in cuts and repealing the Obamacare mandate.
• Increase of the GDP above 3 percent.
• Creation of 1.7 million new jobs, cutting unemployment to 4.1 percent.
• Saw the Dow Jones reach record highs.
• A rebound in economic confidence to a 17-year high.
• A new executive order to boost apprenticeships.
• A move to boost computer sciences in Education Department programs.
• Prioritizing women-owned businesses for some $500 million in SBA loans.

Killing job-stifling regulations

• Signed an Executive Order demanding that two regulations be killed for every new one creates. He beat that big and cut 16 rules and regulations for every one created, saving $8.1 billion.
• Signed 15 congressional regulatory cuts.
• Withdrew from the Obama-era Paris Climate Agreement, ending the threat of environmental regulations.
• Signed an Executive Order cutting the time for infrastructure permit approvals.
• Eliminated an Obama rule on streams that Trump felt unfairly targeted the coal industry.

Fair trade

• Made good on his campaign promise to withdraw from the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
• Opened up the North American Free Trade Agreement for talks to better the deal for the U.S.
• Worked to bring companies back to the U.S., and companies like Toyota, Mazda, Broadcom Limited, and Foxconn announced plans to open U.S. plants.
• Worked to promote the sale of U.S products abroad.
• Made enforcement of U.S. trade laws, especially those that involve national security, a priority.
• Ended Obama’s deal with Cuba.

Boosting U.S. energy dominance

• The Department of Interior, which has led the way in cutting regulations, opened plans to lease 77 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico for oil and gas drilling.
• Trump traveled the world to promote the sale and use of U.S. energy.
• Expanded energy infrastructure projects like the Keystone XL Pipeline snubbed by Obama.
• Ordered the Environmental Protection Agency to kill Obama’s Clean Power Plan.
• EPA is reconsidering Obama rules on methane emissions.

Protecting the U.S. homeland

• Laid out new principles for reforming immigration and announced plan to end "chain migration," which lets one legal immigrant to bring in dozens of family members.
• Made progress to build the border wall with Mexico.
• Ended the Obama-era “catch and release” of illegal immigrants.
• Boosted the arrests of illegals inside the U.S.
• Doubled the number of counties participating with Immigration and Customs Enforcement charged with deporting illegals.
• Removed 36 percent more criminal gang members than in fiscal 2016.
• Started the end of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrival program.
• Ditto for other amnesty programs like Deferred Action for Parents of Americans.
• Cracking down on some 300 sanctuary cities that defy ICE but still get federal dollars.
• Added some 100 new immigration judges.

Protecting communities

• Justice announced grants of $98 million to fund 802 new cops.
• Justice worked with Central American nations to arrest and charge 4,000 MS-13 members.
• Homeland rounded up nearly 800 MS-13 members, an 83 percent one-year increase.
• Signed three executive orders aimed at cracking down on international criminal organizations.
• Attorney General Jeff Sessions created new National Public Safety Partnership, a cooperative initiative with cities to reduce violent crimes.

Accountability

• Trump has nominated 73 federal judges and won his nomination of Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court.
• Ordered ethical standards including a lobbying ban.
• Called for a comprehensive plan to reorganize the executive branch.
• Ordered an overhaul to modernize the digital government.
• Called for a full audit of the Pentagon and its spending.

Combatting opioids

• First, the president declared a Nationwide Public Health Emergency on opioids.
• His Council of Economic Advisors played a role in determining that overdoses are underreported by as much as 24 percent.
• The Department of Health and Human Services laid out a new five-point strategy to fight the crisis.
• Justice announced it was scheduling fentanyl substances as a drug class under the Controlled Substances Act.
• Justice started a fraud crackdown, arresting more than 400.
• The administration added $500 million to fight the crisis.
• On National Drug Take Back Day, the Drug Enforcement Agency collected 456 tons.

Protecting life

• In his first week, Trump reinstated and expanded the Mexico City Policy that blocks some $9 billion in foreign aid being used for abortions.
• Worked with Congress on a bill overturning an Obama regulation that blocked states from defunding abortion providers.
• Published guidance to block Obamacare money from supporting abortion.

Helping veterans

• Signed the Veterans Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act to allow senior officials in the Department of Veterans Affairs to fire failing employees and establish safeguards to protect whistleblowers.
• Signed the Veterans Appeals Improvement and Modernization Act.
• Signed the Harry W. Colmery Veterans Educational Assistance Act, to provide support.
• Signed the VA Choice and Quality Employment Act of 2017 to authorize $2.1 billion in additional funds for the Veterans Choice Program.
• Created a VA hotline.
• Had the VA launch an online “Access and Quality Tool,” providing veterans with a way to access wait time and quality of care data.
• With VA Secretary Dr. David Shulkin, announced three initiatives to expand access to healthcare for veterans using telehealth technology.

Promoting peace through strength

• Directed the rebuilding of the military and ordered a new national strategy and nuclear posture review.
• Worked to increase defense spending.
• Empowered military leaders to “seize the initiative and win,” reducing the need for a White House sign off on every mission.
• Directed the revival of the National Space Council to develop space war strategies.
• Elevated U.S. Cyber Command into a major warfighting command.
• Withdrew from the U.N. Global Compact on Migration, which Trump saw as a threat to borders.
• Imposed a travel ban on nations that lack border and anti-terrorism security.
• Saw ISIS lose virtually all of its territory.
• Pushed for strong action against global outlaw North Korea and its development of nuclear weapons.
• Announced a new Afghanistan strategy that strengthens support for U.S. forces at war with terrorism.
• NATO increased support for the war in Afghanistan.
• Approved a new Iran strategy plan focused on neutralizing the country’s influence in the region.
• Ordered missile strikes against a Syrian airbase used in a chemical weapons attack.
• Prevented subsequent chemical attacks by announcing a plan to detect them better and warned of future strikes if they were used.
• Ordered new sanctions on the dictatorship in Venezuela.

Restoring confidence in and respect for America

• Trump won the release of Americans held abroad, often using his personal relationships with world leaders.
• Made good on a campaign promise to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
• Conducted a historic 12-day trip through Asia, winning new cooperative deals. On the trip, he attended three regional summits to promote American interests.
• He traveled to the Middle East and Europe to build new relationships with leaders.
• Traveled to Poland for the annual. G-20 meeting where he pushed again for funding of women entrepreneurs.

I love what he said in regards to blowback from the U.N. vote...

"We don't care".

.,.,

.,.,..

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Originally Posted by oldno7

Think some of this annual expense being cut, might help our debt?

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That map/chart is very telling. Our biggest aid recipient is a tiny county about the size of San Juan County.

Here's a question: Trump has said other countries should start paying more for their national defense (and in my opinion, he's right). Should Israel be included also?

Everytime some dumbass tells me this tax cut is for the rich I send them this video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1E4sQzEcR8&amp;t=7s

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Originally Posted by Scott P

That map/chart is very telling. Our biggest aid recipient is a tiny county about the size of San Juan County.

Here's a question: Trump has said other countries should start paying more for their national defense (and in my opinion, he's right). Should Israel be included also?

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Their are methods of paying your fair share other than money.....

The US supports Israel for practical reasons. The US's alliance with Israel is because of two key factors, intelligence sharing and ideological unity.

Israeli intelligence and insights into Middle Eastern affairs is unparalleled throughout the world and benefits the US in multiple ways. So we give Israel $3 billion and they give us unprecedented intelligence, or we could cut Israel off the payroll and take the intel shop in house, which would result in us paying $6 billion for shitty intel.

Also.... Israel is really an important ideological ally. They are the only liberal democracy in the Middle East and they share our societal values. Just like the US, Israel has regular and open elections with peaceful transitions of power. That is an important factor in a region bursting with failed and failing states.


:soapbox:

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Israeli intelligence and insights into Middle Eastern affairs is unparalleled throughout the world and benefits the US in multiple ways.

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Don't forget that they also spy on the US and often only share intelligence when it is to their own benefit.

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or we could cut Israel off the payroll

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Asking them to pay more of their share isn't the same as cutting them off. I phrased it in the form of a question.

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They are the only liberal democracy in the Middle East and they share our societal values.

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As far as "sharing our societal values", it is weird how both parties pick and choose those values that they believe other countries share with us.

For example, Republicans say that the Democrats are evil because they (overall) support abortion rights and universal healthcare. Yet, Israel has the most liberal abortion laws in the world (anyone, any age, for any reason can get a 100% government paid abortion with no questions asked) and has universal healthcare.

Meanwhile, the Democrats say the Republicans are bad for not supporting more women's rights, but in recent years they have softened their stances on Middle Eastern Countries that don't support women's rights.

It is also interesting that in the US, in polls at least, the Jewish religion (followed by Catholic and Evangelical Christian) is the most respected of all religions regardless of political affiliation (with Muslims, Atheists, and Mormons at the bottom).

The reasons for this between the parties are very different though. In general, a lot of Republicans believe that the Jews are the chosen people of God and thus hold them in high esteem for that reason. A lot of Democrats like the Jews because the Jewish vote always goes Democrat and overall a majority of US Jews hold the Republican party in low esteem.

The complexity of it among both major parties, is to say the least, interesting.

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

So we give Israel $3 billion and they give us unprecedented intelligence, or we could cut Israel off the payroll and take the intel shop in house, which would result in us paying $6 billion for shitty intel.

.


:soapbox:

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KABOOM!...the only thing I expect from Trump in regards to the U.N. is that he'll trim some fat.

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Originally Posted by twotimer

KABOOM!...the only thing I expect from Trump in regards to the U.N. is that he'll trim some fat.

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Yeah... somehow that dollar spent for valve received in return went right over Scott's head.

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

Yeah... somehow that dollar spent for valve received in return went right over Scott's head.

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No, apparently my point went over your head. My post was phrased in the form of a question.

Trump has said that other countries should pay more for national defense. I asked if Israel should be included in that statement. Rest assured, I read your answer. Obviously, your answer to the question is "no, Israel shouldn't be included in Trump's statement".

As for me, I never haven't given my own answer yet. I was asking about everyone else's.

Unless they have been there, most Americans don't have a clue what Israel or the Middle East is really like.

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Originally Posted by Scott P

As for me, I never haven't given my own answer yet. I was asking about everyone else's.

Unless they have been there, most Americans don't have a clue what Israel or the Middle East is really like.

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I've never been there, but I work of a lot of people that have.

I have hundreds of Jewish clients. There are two types, conservative and liberal. The liberal ones hate the government of Israel and want desperately to take it over. But the conservative ones, like the people that live in Israel itself, won't let that happen because they know it would spell doom. The conservative ones want those guns loaded and ready at all times.

If the liberals actually ever succeed in ruling Israel, you would see all the hate for that country disappear in the media. They already tell you you're supposed to love them.

Two factions vying for power...that's all it is.

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I have hundreds of Jewish clients. There are two types, conservative and liberal.

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There are American Jews who are politically conservative, but they are definitely in the minority (unless you are speaking of religiously conservative vs. non-Orthodox). Here are the results for the Jewish vote for the presidential election dating back to 1916, directly from the Jewish virtual library. 1920 is the last time the vote from American Jews went for a Republican President.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-voting-record-in-u-s-presidential-elections

Only a small percentage of American Jews vote for conservatives and it has been like that for a long time.

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The liberal ones hate the government of Israel and want desperately to take it over. But the conservative ones, like the people that live in Israel itself, won't let that happen because they know it would spell doom. The conservative ones want those guns loaded and ready at all times.

If the liberals actually ever succeed in ruling Israel, you would see all the hate for that country disappear in the media. They already tell you you're supposed to love them.

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While it is accurate to say that many American Jews don't support Zionism, it is very inaccurate to say that the majority of American Jews (the vast majority of which are politically Liberal and religiously non-Orthodox) hate Israel or hate Israel's government.

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Originally Posted by Scott P

While it is accurate to say that many American Jews don't support Zionism, it is very inaccurate to say that the majority of American Jews (the vast majority of which are politically Liberal and religiously non-Orthodox) hate Israel or hate Israel's government.

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I never mentioned a "majority" of anything.

IMO, most of the liberal hate for Trump that you see in the media is because he's friends with the "wrong" Jews.

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

Yeah... somehow that dollar spent for valve received in return went right over Scott's head.

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So many of them have such concern for the humanity of it all that they're blinded by the barbarians at the gate.

They want it all..."Why can't we get along" they say. Well, the other guys wanna slit you throats and rape your daughters, that's why.

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While it is accurate to say that many American Jews don't support Zionism, it is very inaccurate to say that the majority of American Jews (the vast majority of which are politically Liberal and religiously non-Orthodox) hate Israel or hate Israel's government.



I never mentioned a "majority" of anything.

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Here is what you said (exact quote):

The liberal ones hate the government of Israel and want desperately to take it over.

The vast majority of American Jews are liberal. It's not even a close call. This cannot be argued. So yes, your comment did (incorrectly) say that the majority of American Jews hate the government of Israel.

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So many of them have such concern for the humanity of it all that they're blinded by the barbarians at the gate.

They want it all..."Why can't we get along" they say. Well, the other guys wanna slit you throats and rape your daughters, that's why.

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The reality is that plenty of people want to kill and rape others. Since I have been stabbed and my sister was raped (multiple times) when I was there, it should be obvious that I am not oblivious to this. Still to think that 100% of people living in one region or another are bad or good is true naivety. Islamic terrorism is currently the biggest threat to world peace.

I also know my history and will bet anyone here that I will beat them in a history or geography test (of your choosing). Any takers?

Historically, it has been mostly (but not always) the Republicans who have supported the Islamic terrorists groups, especially under Operation Cyclone. Before you say (probably after having to look it up) that Carter was the one that started Operation Cyclone, you would be right. It was however Reagan and Bush Sr. (whom I still respect despite his gross error of supporting Operation Cyclone) that did the majority (but not all of) of the arming and supporting of the terrorists groups who's predecessors still have terrorism roots today.


Does this mean that everyone should hate Republicans or Democrats and that it's all (which ever party you don't like)'s fault? No, of course not. It does mean that we should try and learn from our mistakes though.

It is naive to ignore history, especially while trying to point the finger and claim that things are going over other's heads.

Here are some indisputable historical facts that many now days have forgotten, but that should be studied in order to help understand the history of what has happened and how it affects the present (I'm missing a lot here; this isn't a cut and paste job, but just some important things I can think of off the top of my head). Intentionally, I'm not going to tie everything together here, because you guys should really study up on your history.

More Recent History

Some of the reasons for creating the modern state of Israel were founded on antisemitism. After WWII, a majority of Jews wanted to relocate to the United States and the UK. They were denied and told to go to Israel.

The lands composing the State of Israel were already populated at the time of the creation and the people displaces have roots dating back thousands of years.

Part of the reason Israel was founded is because several western nations feared terrorism from hard line Jewish groups, such as Irgun (if you aren't familiar with the King David Hotel bombing, for example, look it up). At the time, hard-line Jewish groups were targeting both Arab and western interest, especially the UK (not that that UK wasn't poking it's nose in everything else at the time).

The original state of Israel was founded with the intention of making it a socialist state. It was only later, but a somewhat quickly (in historic terms) transition to capitalism.

Palestinians are Semitic by genetics and are considered to be second-class Muslims by most Islamic countries because of this and their persevered historical tenancy towards historical heresy and because of their Jewish heritage. Most Palestinians are descendants of Jews who happened to stay behind during various conquest.

Some Islamic countries recognized and supported Israel, the two major players being Turkey and Iran.

When modern Israel became a nation, Israel viewed Iran as it's strongest (or at least potentially most faithful) ally. Iran was originally against the Palestine Partisan Plan, because they (accurately) predicted that it would increase violence and lead to many generations of fighting, but they were very quick to recognize and ally with Israel as soon as it was created. It was the US (CIA) and the UK who really ****ed this up in 1953 with the coup d'etat that eventually led to the Iranian revolution of 1979. The major motivation behind the coup d'etat was over oil.

The reason most American Jews are Democrat isn't because they hate Israel. Anyone who thinks so really need to study up on this.

Some Points that Should be Remembered about Modern Israel

If it weren't for religion, most people in the region would probably want to be occupied by Israel. The standard of living in Israel is much higher than in rest of the surrounding region. They enjoy more freedom too. If given the choice, I'd much rather live in Israel than anywhere else in the region.

Many Arabs want to live in Israel and either migrate there illegally or attempt to.

Tens of thousands of Palestinians and Israelis live in peace with one another. Tens of thousands of Palestinians actually cross the border every day to work in Israel and exit the country at day's end. Many Palestinians and Israelis are friends with each other. It is the ones that aren't that are the problem.

While some people picturing Israel may think of things like praying at the Wailing Wall, overall, Israel is a non-religious country. A lot of people there are Jewish by culture, not by religion. At least half of Israeli Jews identify as hilony.

Preaching Christianity in Israel is punishable by prison time.

Israel has had human rights violations, but overall is a humanitarian country. Israel has taken in a lot of people in need, including from famine.

In recent times, Netanyahu has been very unpopular in in Israel, though his approval has improves a little.

More History Pre-Creation of Modern Israel

Most of the European Jews or former European Jews left the Israel region in the 300's AD. Another large number of them left in the 600's when the Byzantine Empire banned Judaism in Jerusalem. The ban was lifted for a short time period when the Arabs conquered Palestine. Christianity was the primary religion in the region until Islam took over.

The people who stayed through the various Arab and Christian conquest became the Syrians, Lebanese, and Palestinians. They are currently Arabs by culture, but not by blood lines.

Many Jews were massacred in Europe during the Black Death of the 1300's because the Jews were blamed for causing it. Many Christians thought that the Jews were poisoning water wells while others simply thought that the Black Death was a punishment from God and that massacring the Jews would please God. Pope Clement VI stepped in to protect the Jews and said that anyone who blamed the Jews for the Black Death was under the influence of the devil. A lot of Jews fled to Poland since Poland was tolerant of the Jews. Other than during the Partitions of Poland in the late 1700's, things went well until the Nazi invasion of Poland in WWII. Most of us know the history of what happened then.

Yikes!

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Originally Posted by Scott P

I also know my history and will bet anyone here that I will beat them in a history or geography test (of your choosing). Any takers?

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Yeah... I'll play, my knowledge of military history is pretty sharp.

But lets do a quick recap before we begin...

You (@Scott P) asked the simple question "Trump has said other countries should start paying more for their national defense (and in my opinion, he's right). Should Israel be included also?"

To which I replied, "There are methods of paying your fair share other than money....." and pointed out that the current arrangement actually benefits the US and provides the US a better product at a cheaper price than if we purchased it elsewhere or used other methods.

At which point you (@Scott P) went into a rant filled with liberal opinions mixed with facts, which were explained from the liberal point of view.

I believe that brings us up-to-date, did I miss anything?

So let me take over the narrative for a moment, In 1948 Israel came to exist for a bunch of reasons and by 1967 had evolved into the country we now all know.

In 1967 Israel was attacked by Egypt supported by Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Algeria, Kuwait, Libya, Morocco, Pakistan, PLO, Sudan and Tunisia. The Egyptian coalition got their ass kicked in 6 day, which is why it's called the 6 Day War. Calling the war an major ass kicking is probably an understatement as the Israeli's lost less then 1000 soldiers and the Egyptian coalition lost over 20,000 soldiers and massive amounts of territory. The war should really have been called The 6 Day Ass Kicking.

During the 6 day ass kicking Israel captures the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria. After the ass kicking just about everyone except Israel and the US wants to pretend the 6 Day War never happened and thinks Israel should just return the territory won as if the attack on Israel was just a big joke.....

But I can tell you right now it is NEVER going to happen....

By 1982 Israel had withdrawn from the Sinai Peninsula for various reasons. But Israel still controls the other areas captured and is not giving them back except by force no matter what the UN says or how many resolutions the UN passes or where the US Embassy is located....

At this point you are welcome to share your liberal opinion of why Israel should give back control of the captured areas, why the US should not locate their embassy in the Israeli capital, and why the US should not support Israel.....

:popcorn:

Gag gift for my father in law...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f2bbd3d7ff.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f2f309fbba.jpg

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Yeah... I'll play, my knowledge of military history is pretty sharp.

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That's good and I'll take your challenge.

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At which point you (@Scott P) went into a rant filled with liberal opinions mixed with facts, which were explained from the liberal point of view.

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There was no rant, just some points to ponder. If there are mistakes, then kindly point them out. As far as I know (and I know a lot about history), everything I said was correct. Also, despite your claim of "liberal opinions", liberals and conservatives are probably equally ignorant when it comes to world history.

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So let me take over the narrative for a moment, In 1948 Israel came to exist for a bunch of reasons and by 1967 had evolved into the country we now all know.

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The first part of the sentence is correct, but Israel has had many changes since 1967. For example, it is becoming less religious and more secular. I assume you mean borders though.

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In 1967 Israel was attacked by Egypt supported by Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Algeria, Kuwait, Libya, Morocco, Pakistan, PLO, Sudan and Tunisia

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Israel struck first as a preemptive self defense strike. Egypt was however in violation of their promise to keep the Straights of Teran open and had moved many of its military forces to the Israeli border.

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The Egyptian coalition got their ass kicked in 6 day, which is why it's called the 6 Day War. Calling the war an major ass kicking is probably an understatement as the Israeli's lost less then 1000 soldiers and the Egyptian coalition lost over 20,000 soldiers and massive amounts of territory. The war should really have been called The 6 Day Ass Kicking.

During the 6 day ass kicking Israel captures the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria. After the ass kicking just about everyone except Israel and the US wants to pretend the 6 Day War never happened and thinks Israel should just return the territory won as if the attack on Israel was just a big joke.....

But I can tell you right now it is NEVER going to happen....

By 1982 Israel had withdrawn from the Sinai Peninsula for various reasons. But Israel still controls the other areas captured and is not giving them back except by force no matter what the UN says or how many resolutions the UN passes or where the US Embassy is located....

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All of the above is true.

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At this point you are welcome to share your liberal opinion of why Israel should give back control of the captured areas, why the US should not locate their embassy in the Israeli capital, and why the US should not support Israel.....

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I might be inclined to share that opinion if it were my opinion, but it is not, other than perhaps the worry that relocating the embassy would put our staff in danger because it is in a less secure location. You just assume that the above is my opinion. I haven't really expressed mine yet, but here it is.

I also think that it would be very dangerous for the entire region if the US didn't support Israel. If Israel lost US support, it is my belief that there would be a big possibility that they would be attacked. If Israel were attacked and felt that they could be annihilated, then there is a good change that they will use their nukes in defense or retaliation. I'm guessing that we both believe (correct me if wrong) that Israel has nukes, regardless if it hasn't been "officially declared". The US support of Israel is probably one of the main reasons that this hasn't happened yet.

I do not view Israel as perfect, but I do believe in their right to exists. Even if someone believed that the creation of modern Israel is wrong, almost everyone involved in that choice is dead and most people living in Israel were born there. It should be time to let the past die. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen.

So, yes, the US should support Israel. We should hold it in equal regard, but not above our other important allies.

My main reason for bringing up some history points in that Americans in general should really know their history better (it sounds like you do know yours pretty well). There are a lot of misconceptions among Americans as to how Israel, the Middle East, and other countries are in general. To be fair, there is a lot of misconception of what the US is like from other countries as well. I have been to 50 countries and you wouldn't believe some of the weird questions about the US that we have been asked.

My only real disagreement about what was said was the comments about liberal Jews (which are the majority of American Jews) hating Israel's government. That statement holds no truth as least with most American Jews. While it could make an interesting thread about why American Jews are liberal and vote democrat, that's probably beyond the scope of a thread on Trump. I'll start the thread after the Christmas holidays if people really are interested in such discussion.

Anyway, we should definitely take on each others challenge of a history contest. If possible, geography as well. Your terms; however you want to do it.

It would be good if Americans knew more about history and geography. To me they are much more important than they are given credit for. Most of the mistakes the US has made have been made in the past.

If you want to know the truth, the only thing you really offend me with is the constant referral of me as a liberal. In recent years I almost always side with the liberals on environmental and public land issues, often on foreign policy, much of the time on education, and sometimes health care, but I am far from being a true liberal. I am more liberal than you on many issues, but there is plenty I disagree with liberals (such as free welfare; with rare exceptions, I don't think it should be free-it should be worked for).

Although I share several viewpoints with liberals and some with conservatives, but I really do resent being called either. I have said many times that both parties are becoming more extreme and that partisanship is slowly destroying this country. I can also say that countries that are either too far left or too far right/conservative are not places I would want to live. I would assume that most here would (even if reluctantly) agree, even if they aren't on the same political spectrum.

Aren't you a libertarian, Scott? Which would explain why you don't affiliate yourself strictly with either republicans or democrats.

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Originally Posted by Scott P

I'm guessing that we both believe (correct me if wrong) that Israel has nukes, regardless if it hasn't been "officially declared".

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Israel has up to 400 nukes, and unlike some nuclear counties they have a state of the art missile delivery system.

What should be most concerning about Israel having nukes is they have refused to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

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Aren't you a libertarian, Scott

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I side with the libertarians on several issues, including on many foreign policy issues (since we are discussing those). I do not side with them on public lands though. If it weren't for that, I'd be most likely to vote for a libertarian.

LMAO.... I can appreciate a good joke.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ee7c85ab19.jpg

Guatemala follows in Trumps footsteps and announces it's moving it's embassy to Jerusalem.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/12...jerusalem.html

The Czech Republic will probably be the next to announce as others face reality and follow the US lead.

UN resolution 242 has officially shit the bed.

The Palestinians should have accepted one of the numerous generous deals offered them in the past as they are about to end up with the smelly end of the stick.

Trump makes historic mark on federal bench and 2018 could be even bigger.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...be-bigger.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

All my employees received one full months wage for their Christmas bonus. It's been a couple years since we have been able to be so generous.

I guess I should mention to them that Trump is partially responsible for the bonus as a couple of them were big Hillary supporters.

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So I told my employee's today that they all had to send Trump a card thanking him for their Christmas bonus this year and for next years tax cut on S-Corps. The liberal's in the office looked like I had just shot their dog and defiled their sister.

Some days it's good to be the king. :lol8:

Was unaware you employed liberals. This surprises me.


Perhaps even more shocking is the fact that there are liberals willing to work for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rockgremlin

Was unaware you employed liberals. This surprises me.


Perhaps even more shocking is the fact that there are liberals willing to work for you.

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Money makes for strange bedfellows.

...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6edf54c02e.jpg

Testing for 2018

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This thread delivers the LOLs