Thoughts? :popcorn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM
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Thoughts? :popcorn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM
MY thoughts? I think the guy who produced this thing is a socialist...even though he denies it.
I suppose he'd like me to be angry after watching this, and if that's the case...THEREFORE, WHAT? I should drive to New York, stand in front of the stock exchange and scream bloody murder? I'd like to hear what the solution to this problem is from "Mr. Socialist".
Wealth confiscation, perhaps? Outlaw private ownership of jets, yachts, or homes worth more than a million bucks? How about taxing capital gains at 90+ percent? Should every poor person in this country be given a house, car and at least three grand direct deposited into their checking account? C'mon dude, let's hear your fix. I don't give much thought to guys like this that want me to get bent out of shape because unicorns that fart rainbows don't exist.
My boss makes more than 100 times what I make, and I say good for him. I sleep in my own bed at night, and he is constantly traveling to clients over the whole world. I think it comes down to the "How Bad Do you Want it Video from the Spartan race". Most of the wealthy (not the hollywood / celebrity millionaires but the business owners) just want it more than the rest of us. This isn't India where we live in a caste system. If you work hard, you can succeed.
http://vimeo.com/58479997
Not only do I not mind the fact that the 1% make so much more than I do, but I am grateful to most of them for their contribution. My boss makes way more each year than I ever will in my life and I applaud him for it. I'm grateful to have a job. I am grateful that my job is part of my life, but is not the primary focus of it. Even when my boss is on "vacation" he is still working 8+ hours a day and is constantly attached to his phone and fielding calls 24/7.
I came from a fairly poor family. My parents literally made no income for 6 years and lived off of my Grandpa's social security money until he died in 1989 and my the company my Dad was trying to build failed. My Dad then went back to school (on loans) and then made less than $30,000 for most of my childhood and used that money to support a family of 5 boys. To the best of my knowledge my parents never took Government welfare or any other social program (neither church, nor governmental).
My parents never once game me 10 cents for my own education. I in fact took a job at 13 and have paid for all of my clothing, educational (including high school books and tuituion, recreational, etc. expenses since I was 13). I worked through college and paid for my own education, car, etc.. I do not feel like I received a leg up over the average American but I do feel like I have had more than my fair amount of opportunity to be wealthy. I am not someone that anyone here would likely consider "wealthy", but I sometimes can't believe how much I have. I feel VERY blessed and I don't feel like those at the top owe me anything. I have opportunities offered to me where I could have made more money than I do now, but they would have required me to spend a lot more time away from my family so it wasn't worth it to me. Not to mention that as an American I have start my own company whenever I want and try and strike it out rich on my own.
Warren Buffet said that he won the genetic lottery by being born here in the U.S., and I completely agree. I have friends who did not graduate high school who currently are making 6 figures. Several of the riches people I know that are my age all come from poorer families.
If you don't feel like you have a large enough share of the wealth, then the solution is for you to work harder for it. Not to take it away from those who have already achieved it.
I totally agree :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscGo
I 10,000% agree with this statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscGo
On a practical note, I have been able to experience both the extreme poor and the extreme wealth. My first five years of my life I was raised in a single wide trailer and we were as poor as all get up. We were on the far left side of this graph, barely getting by on a single mom's salary as she was raising two kids on $3.30 an hour. But as time went on my mom busted her butt and end up making around $50,000 year by the time she retired. We felt pretty wealth by this time.
When I was 25 I was in Seattle for a job interview and on the plane ride home I sat next to the girl who I'm now married to (how I ended up in SLC). She came from a middle class family here in Utah but was born in Orange county. She then took me back to where she was orginally from. Her family in Orange county who had taken a 100 year old construction business and turned it in a multi-million dollar jaugernat.
To put the wealth into perspective; Weddings at the Ritz in Laguna Niguel, Bentleys, race horses at Santa Anita, personal assistant to drive the limo, yadayada. All of this and I can tell you one thing, I wouldn't trade places with them for the world. My wife says anytime we want to move down to Orange county I could have a job living that life and I know for a fact there is no way I would do it. It's just not what I want out this life.
I absolutely love my local government job, hiking and fishing on the weekends, reading to my daughter every night, enjoying a Uinta Cutthroat while watching Duck Dynasty, making sure my kids are well situated to go to great schools, making my family breakfast on the weekends, and overall just enjoying life.
For those that truly want to be wealthy by getting the prestigous MBA, keeping a Wall Street Journal tucked under your arm, and working day and night, I say go for it. It's there for the taking. I prefer to make a modest salary while truly making a difference in the world. It really is to each their own.
:2thumbs:Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscGo
Jealousy from some that thinks the rich don't deserve to be. Sure they should. Stop being that little pansy-ass in the sandbox that whines all the time.
Socialism always fails.
Discgo, how do you feel about the rich getting rich from shady finances, helping cause a worldwide financial crisis, getting bailed out by "the gov't" (that means your tax dollars), then getting appointed to gov't positions that help ensure they can continue to do more of the same? This is the rich getting richer, while taking away from you and yours. Do you support that?
After watching the video my thought was "so, what is your solution?"
I believe the top 10% might be skewed a little unfairly, but I don't trust the government to redistribute the wealth in any fashion....
As for the bottom 20%, most of them are receiving exactly what they worked for their entire life. You can't be a high school drop out, meth head, dope smoker, and expect to have money fall into your lap.
I would like to see a portion of the top 10% of the wealth redistributed into the middle of the curve, but I have no clue how to do it. Outside of taxing the crap out of the super rich and relaxing the tax on the middle class. But the government wants to tax the crap out of the super rich and give it to the bottom 20%, who for the most part are a waste of good air and contribute nothing to society.
:soapbox:
But...that is exactly what is happening right now. Great wealth is not simply the result of "hard work" - it is primarily the result of being in control of how wealth is generated, regulated, etc. Currently, a tiny minority is in control of that (including the government). The laws and regulations of this country are skewed to kick money up that tiny minority, while draining it from you and me. You can see it in any essential industry, most notably the food and energy sectors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
There are many ways short of "socialism" that can help mitigate the ongoing re-distribution of wealth, among them:
- reducing the influence of corporations and their lobbyists on our gov't
- increasing our personal participation in government
I'm all for hard work being properly rewarded, meaning, as long as that work does not undermine our principles of government and unduly take away from the fruits of my own hard work.
Quoting yourself in favor of yourself...priceless. I've done that a few times b4, so I understand the humor. :mrgreen:Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscGo
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
Excellent post. :nod:
@hank moon-
I don't blame the rich for the bailouts but the Government. And that is not the free market. The free market says if you fail, then you fail. The Government says if you fail and you have donated enough funds to the right people then the American people fail and you still succeed. I'm VERY against that.
But most of the 1% are people that you can name for what they have accomplished (like founding Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Facebook, etc. being an oil tycoon, etc.). Warren Buffet is the only billionaire of which I know who made a killing on the bailouts and his company wasn't bailed out. He invested money in the companies which had already "failed" banking on the Government bailing them out which they did.
I am not in favor of the work of the people funding extravagance in Government. Shady finances should have penalties and not be rewarded by the Government. But most people who are millionaires are business owners who have worked hard for they have, and not the Wall Street Elite.
I also think it is kind of funny that people point their fingers at Wall Street for "ruining things" but some how nobody gives them credit for what they have built up. Like @Iceaxe, I too believe that most of the 20% at the bottom receiving exactly what they deserve. And many are receiving a lot more than they have earned.
When you look at how much better the poor are in this country than the poor of so many other countries, we are still very blessed. I believe the problem is that people don't look at how blessed they are for what they have, they look at what their neighbor has and they feel like they don't have enough. You look at the poor in South America (where I have lived) and they are on a whole nother playing field than the majority of our "poor" here. Happiness isn't about getting what you want, but wanting what you go (Sheryl Crow doctrine there). I believe if you were to equally distribute all the wealth in the world today, it would all end up back in the hand of the rich eventually because of their work ethics, spending habits, and business tactics.
Having worked in tourism for 7 years, I have a lot of friends from a lot of different backgrounds. Some of those friends left very successful jobs at prestigious firms in Chicago and New York because they hated the work environment. Now they drive buses, work for REI, and travel around the world doing odd jobs. You look at someone worth a billion dollars and believe they were rewarded too much, but I know plenty of people who believe the lives they live are more rewarding.
I believe our financial problems lie in Washington and not on Wall Street.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hank moon
Along the same vein, Nevada one of the states that DOES NOT tax personal income. This is made possible by the generous donations from the gambling and prostitution industries. Is this "right?"
As I said before my boss is not one of the 1% but he is very wealthy. His travel expenses for a week are often on par with what I make in the year. I do not feel entitled to more money than I receive. His success is in no way a reflection of some form of failure in me. If he can get his clients to pay him to travel first class, good for him. I think the difference comes down to education as well. My boss may not work 200 times harder than the average worker, but less than 1 in 200 can do what he does.
Nevada has higher taxes than 8 other states, most of which do not allow gambling.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
Source:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...owest/1654071/
So I don't believe the answer is as cut as dry and legalizing gambling. That said, I have no problem with a state allowing gambling, prostitution, alcohol, etc.. I much prefer a situation where prostitution is legalized, and taxed heavily than a system in which underage girls are exploited.
I have known wealthy people during my life, but only recently have my eyes been opened to how much wealth there really is in the world. I believe the more we rely on the Government to extend humanity, the less we will extend of ourselves to humanity. You can't allow the Government to determine morality, and the majority cannot determine morality either. The more we depend on the Government, the less we depend on each other.
If you have followed my posts before you will know I often state.... People are not poor because they have no money, they are poor because the don't know how to manage (generate) money.Quote:
Originally Posted by hank moon
Yes, I do have a problem with the Super Rich being able to buy their way into government handouts and tax breaks... but I think I also stated earlier I don't trust the government to handle the distribution of wealth... Yup, it would be great if we had an honest government... but we don't... it's just not nearly as crooked as most others...
Until the middle class rises up and says... enough... it will not change.
:cool2:
Awesome post. :2thumbs:Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
I'm sure if you were to ask Mr. Socialist Video Producer up there who should be in charge of "making it right" the answer would surely be the government...like DiscGo said, they actually constitute a great deal of the problem. Ahhh...those multi-colored farts smell so wonderful!
Dayamm! I came into this thread to deliver some justice but I see it has already been handed out. Stop being such jealous sad people, get off your butts, and quit asking for handouts. :2thumbs:
This is key. When we assign blame to the gov't, we sometimes forget who is ultimately responsible for the gov't (us).Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Was it Obama that was supposed to fix all this? :lol8: More like the fox guarding the hen house.
I hope I copied this correctly. Maybe I should post this on the favorite quote thread, but I think it fits here.
"It is a great pity there is so much strife between capital and labor...Workingmen should not regard capitalists as their enemies. Workingmen should take the view that it is the miser, he who hoards his gold in an old stocking-those are the who should be despised by the workingmen. In this country, with the wages paid, the workingman by denying himself of what he would otherwise spend, can become a capitalist himself, the same as I did... A capitalist is a man who lives on less then he earns"
Robert Dunsmuir
Indentured to the Hudson
Nice post, witt...I have several very wealthy clients, and the richest of them all ( a man who's worth tens, if not hundreds of millions) told me he has very little of his net worth in cash...most is tied up in investments, doing good things for many people. Very few of these folks have giant wads of cash stashed in a vault somewhere, collecting dust until they pay a visit to grab a few hand fulls for the next high dollar materialist purchase.
Last May I was on a houseboat trip with some friends. It was just starting to get busy on the lake and at one point the yacht cruised by...man, that thing was off the hook! It was three times the size of our houseboat, and looked to be absolutely top end. I considered the scores, probably hundreds of people involved in the construction of that thing, and it would all come to naught if that man hadn't made the purchase.
Same thing goes for someone selling high end bedding, or expensive shoes...I own a skateboard that's worth $250, should I feel bad about that? Who defines what's "fair" and what's not? Yacht, no good...skateboard OK? Mind your own damn business and get your ass to work, I like to say.
Hank, you sound like the kid in the sandbox. Don't be mad you haven't found the key to unlock the riches :haha: Some have whether it was some "shady deals" or honest way of making it. Money makes money, once you hit that vein, you're in. I don't feel their money should be redistributed, it's theirs. You made it, you own it. You want it, I'll give you a job. To think here in America someone else deserves your money is asinine. Even if you didn't work hard for it, it's yours. How is this not a socialist idea?Quote:
Originally Posted by hank moon
JP, I agree completely. Folks who first fleeced* us with shady finances (aka subprime mortgages), then double fleeced* us by taking our tax dollars in the form of bailouts, then triple fleeced* us by taking bailout funds that were meant to generate (less shady) new lending to the public and instead paying themselves massive bonuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by JP
*That is some serious redistribution. But no, it's not socialism. Maybe sociopathism.
Simple, get the government out of businesses they have no business being in. It's all about power grabs and control. They show us time and time again, they cannot run what they already have. How's that Post Office doing? I won't even get into social security and the rest :haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by hank moon
^^^THIS^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by JP
The government did a great job of redistributing the wealth.... They just went in a different direction then most of us were hoping for.
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
Success is uncommon, therefore not to be enjoyed by the common man... Life goes on. Everybody has an opportunity whether they know it or not.
Marissa Mayer, the new Yahoo CEO will get more than 35 million over 5 years. That amounts to $798 per hour, if she were to work 24 hours a day. Is there anyone in the world who can produce $798 per hour of value? No there is not. Companies are socialist organizations that redistribute wealth from the people that produce it, the programmers, laborers, etc and they redistribute to those that do not, mainly upper managers. What would yahoo be without a CEO? Simply a company without a CEO, what would it be without programmer? Certainly not an IT company.
Good for her. That's the advantages of being a boss. I'm taking it that Yahoo is not unionized, probably a good thing or they wouldn't be around anymore. You don't see Yahoo employees going around saying they're not being treated fairly.
So Steve Jobs was just a CEO... and all those engineers and such that made millions riding on his coat tails could have done it without him? Surely you must get that the CEOs set the tone, direct the vision, and bust their ass for what they get - just go read Discgo's description of what his boss works like.Quote:
Originally Posted by reverse_dyno
So Brad Pitt gets $25m to act in a movie, this has a filming duration of 2 to 6 months... and we had over all our spare cash to watch him - and his kind - pretend to be somebody else. Let's examine that last note... pretend to be somebody else. The people these actors pretend to be typically made nothing, or next to it, and to pretend to be them one gets paid quite possibly more than the original person made in 10 lifetimes. Seems fair - but we can say that they generate huge revenues to the studios so they are paid whatever the traffic will bear.
Same can be said for most of our professional athletes, recording artists, etc...
Yet Marrissa Mayer probably is working 12 hrs a day 350 days a year... and phone accessible the other 12 hrs a day and 365 days a year for a mere $7m. I'd say she's getting bent over and plowed. If she turns the company huge profits for her efforts then they should pay her whatever it takes... if she bombs they'll find a way to bail on her.
Companies aren't these massive evil empires, they are simply made up of people working to make as much as they can while taking risks and providing jobs to many others. Engineers change positions to make more money... so they must be even more evil as they leave the company spending more to hire and retrain... and add burden to those that remain. Maybe we need an Evil, Greedy, Bastard Engineer thread - then we can add one for the programmers, IT boys, and plumbers that screw their companies to look out for themselves.
Outstanding double moo...now that's how ya do it! Epic dude!
Hey, welcome to the group, Boom! I gotta ask though...do they have spell check in Paradise? I read your post and just though...Wha?Quote:
Originally Posted by boom
Please leave Steve Jobs out of the discussion. He was with Apple therefore exempt from any negativity. Subaru, Starbucks and hemp clothing companies should also be exempt from this discussion. Thank you, that is all. Carry on.Quote:
Originally Posted by double moo
:lol8:Quote:
Originally Posted by reverse_dyno
Hahaha.... you have obviously never spent any time in a corporate board room or negotiated million dollar deals... a top CEO is worth every penny.
A good CEO doesn't make their money grinding, a good CEO will make their pay for the year in 10 minutes in negotiations.... the trick is to know which 10 minutes are the important 10 minutes, and that is what you are paying for.
And the proof to what I'm saying is top companies are always headhunting top CEO's.
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
The funny thing is that the 'government' is financed by you, but your elected officials are financed by the 1%. :lol8: And I have been in a few board meetings; it's all about connections, not necessarily hard work or how you got there. Sure, a lot of them are very bright, but it's the network of other C level folks that have been cultivated that determine their real value.
Bright and brilliant people surround themselves with bright and brilliant people. And the best of the best can manage that group and get paid well to do so. If you think you are underpaid you should find a new job that appreciates your talents, or maybe what you are being paid is all your worth. A top CEO would not be afraid to take the risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by cchoc
As the owner of a company I can tell you my employees are paid what they are worth, if I don't pay them well the good ones are soon gone and I have to fire the deadwood. And its pretty easy to know what an employee is worth. I just look at how much they make the company. A companies C tiered employees are some of the very easist to evaluate.
If you don't like the current situation it might be time to start your own company. If you are really good at what you do there is always a market and the owner of a good company will make some nice coin (and deal with a lot of headaches).
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
I retired when I was 55, so I don't need or want to start my own company. :cool2: My point was simply that above a certain level it's all about your network.
I've done my share of evaluations and hiring and firing, so I know how that works. I also know how to get to C level and that once someone puts you there, as long as that person is still around, you are golden since they will never admit they screwed up by putting you there. :lol8:
I have worked at several private companies that went public. Typically the investors appoint most of the board and, after the consummation generally bring in their own 'C' team as the former owner gradually steps aside and moves one. The new 'C' team is there because of 80% networking and 20% talent.