A few questions abput hikes in the area between Zion and Escalante

Hi,

right now we're planning another trip to the Southwest. At the moment I'm collecting information about hikes we could do. We prefer the less crowded trails.

One that I found is Mineral Gulch. I've read the information on zionnational-park.com but two questions were left:

- We just want to do a day trip and 16 Miles is far above our limit. I would say 7-8 miles would be our limit. So one idea would be to walk a few miles and then turn back. But the questions is: Is it worth? Can some of the interesting narrows be found in the first 3-4 miles?

- Also the website says: "however there may be steep scrambling involved depending on the course taken." We're probably better hikers than the average tourist, but compared to the experienced hikers here I would rate us as beginners. So which course doesn't involve scrambling?

I also have questions about different hikes but I guess it's better to do first things first.

Richie

EDIT: I corrected a typo in the title, but in the overview the typo is still there.. Why?

You might do better to ask that in the Canyoneering Forum, and also in the Zion Hiking Yahoo Group:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/forumdis...5-Canyoneering

I live here in Mt Carmel, and have not done the Mineral Gulch Hike. It does not look all that appealing.

One other question would be WHEN? Makes a big difference, spring, summer or fall. I recommend Fall!!!

Tom

Mineral Gulch would probably NOT be a good hike for what you are looking for. Most of the Goodies are located near the end of the hike (near the East Fork of the Virgin River).

Have you looked into doing any of these?

Wire Pass - this is just a section of the Buckskin Gulch hike that is easy for hikers.

Bull Valley Gorge

Willis Creek

Lick Wash


Just below the confluence of Wire Pass and Buckskin Gulch

http://climb-utah.com/Escalante/Files/buckskin3.jpg

Hi Richie
It might depend on the vehicle you drive. I've done Mineral from the bottom. I accessed the bottom from a road that turns off Highway 9 just West of the Buffalo Ranch.
It is a very 4x4 type of road, once you reach the cliffband, but doable for those with good offroad driving skills and a high clearance vehicle. Another option is to hire Zion Ponderosa to take you down
and pick you back up at a desired time. They drive the road frequently. The narrows just above Parunaweap is probably the most scenic part of the canyon. I called a canyon several miles above the narrows
#7 canyon, as well as the arch within, #7 arch. There is a nice Petroglyph panel at the canyons entrance in a blind arch, it is getting very faded.
Hope some of this helps
Kurt

Thanks for your answers.

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I live here in Mt Carmel, and have not done the Mineral Gulch Hike. It does not look all that appealing.

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Really? I've seen a few pictures here canyonwandern.de/bilder/0592e69c840796604/o000.html and I liked them a lot.

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Wire Pass / Bull Valley Gorge / Lick Wash /Willis Creek

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Willis Creek and Wire Pass we've already seen. Willis Creek is great but Wire Pass was somehow disappointing.
Bull Valley Gorge and Lick Wash are already planned. But we have seven days so there are few other things to do.
A lot of the "Mainstream Hikes" that can be found in every guide book we've already done (CBS, CBN, Paw Hole, White Pocket, Big Horn, Escalante Natural Bridge, Volcano, Yellow Rock and a few others). We prefer the hikes that are not crowded by tourists. What we like most is colored sandstone (like Yellow Rock, Big Horn or White Pocket), Slot Canyons come second. The problem is that we're hikers but because I have a fear of height now scrambling should be involved.

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It is a very 4x4 type of road, once you reach the cliffband, but doable for those with good offroad driving skills

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We've done a few dirt roads but when you say "VERY 4x4" I guess it's over our limit.

Any recommendations are welcome.

Richie

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Originally Posted by oldno7

Another option is to hire Zion Ponderosa to take you down and pick you back up at a desired time. They drive the road frequently. The narrows just above Parunaweap is probably the most scenic part of the canyon.

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Just curious? why does Zion Ponderosa drive the road?

And I agree with Kurt, that section of canyon (The Barracks) is very scenic, its just not easy to access.


The Barracks
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/Files/rock7.jpg

I believe they do a shuttle for Rock Canyon as well as Parunaweap hikers.
Probably also, a beer drinking hot spot on a warm Summers eve...........
You can drive to within 200' of the river. Ah yes----beer, women and rivers.........(In no particular order)

Also, I meant the first 3 sets of Narrows heading up Mineral, from Parunaweap, were the best parts of Mineral.
But how could one not like a hike from Poverty to the park boundary and out the Fat Mans trail. Our own Tyler did it in one
day, even though he packed full bivy gear.(YOUTH)

OK.... here is a route for you that gets you the best of The Barracks.

The route is noted on the map below. If you do this route I highly suggest you take along a copy of my Rock Canyon Route Description.

To do this as a hike you will enter the Barracks using what I call the "Emergency Rock Canyon Exit". You will hike down the Virgin River and exit using French Canyon. The emergency exits allows you to skip the technical stuff but get everything else.... kinda like getting married and skipping the bachelor party :haha:.

The route is for experienced hikers only. The route has some minor scrambling but no real exposure or scary stuff. There is some Poison Ivy along the ay that you have to watch out for but its avoidable if you know what to look for.

Trailhead to trailhead time is about 6 hours.

The route requires a 4x4 to reach the trailhead.

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Originally Posted by Richie

We prefer the hikes that are not crowded by tourists. What we like most is colored sandstone (like Yellow Rock, Big Horn or White Pocket), Slot Canyons come second. The problem is that we're hikers but because I have a fear of height now scrambling should be involved.

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Richie, where are you coming from? You sound like the type a hiker that would really enjoy hiking Cedar Mesa.

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Originally Posted by oldno7

But how could one not like a hike from Poverty to the park boundary and out the Fat Mans trail. Our own Tyler did it in one
day, even though he packed full bivy gear.(YOUTH)

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I've been down Fat Man's Misery and out both French and Rock Canyons with large groups. That was a pretty easy day hike. It's now my preferred way of doing Fat Man's Misery. The route is much easier and more adventuerous then hiking back out over Checkerboard Mesa... setting up the shuttle kinda sucks but I get the youngin's to do it for me. :nod:

Wow, so many answers. Great.

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Richie, where are you coming from?

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Bavaria (were the good beer is coming from) - This also explains my English :mrgreen::mrgreen: . I have a thread in the Newbies Section were I introduced myself.

I guess there so much stuff that I spent the next weeks just searching for all the places you're mentioning.

Richie

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kinda like getting married and skipping the bachelor party

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That expression is great. Have to keep that one i mind. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

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Originally Posted by Richie

EDIT: I corrected a typo in the title, but in the overview the typo is still there.. Why?

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When editing a post, hit the "Go Advanced" button and you can change your original title. :mrgreen:

Cobra Arch? I was able to drive to within a 30 minutes walk of the trailhead. The road at that point was too sandy for a 2wd car. From the trailhead it is 90 minutes to 2 hours to reach the arch. The hike is mostly level class 1. Ron Adkison in his Falcon guidebook has a good description.

Have you done any hikes in the east canyon area of Zion: Many Pools, Center of the Universe, Crawford Wash? No formal trails, no crowds, occasional steepness, but fear of heights should not be an issue.

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Originally Posted by Sombeech

When editing a post, hit the "Go Advanced" button and you can change your original title. :mrgreen:

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Hey beech.... that doesn't work. It fixes the title in the thread but the typo still shows up in the menu. I checked it out and he fixed his post correctly, but for some reason the typo remains in the menu.

FYI: I tried flushing my cashe and forcing a hard refresh but the typo remains... you can try fixing it and see for yourself...

North and South Coyote Butte?
The Wave?

The good stuff is at the end Richie. Sorry... but the guys have given you some great alternatives. Its a long hike. We took another guy in with us and we were lucky Bo did not have to carry him out! It did not seem long to us because we were hiking long hikes all the time, but for someone that does not, that is a very long hike.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/mineral-gulch.htm

North and South Coyote Buttes we have already seen. Cobra Arch seems to be interesting but not enough for a whole day hike.

The hikes in East Zion that were recommended I will google this evening.

Thank you all for your replies.

Richie

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Have you done any hikes in the east canyon area of Zion: Many Pools, Center of the Universe, Crawford Wash?

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Ok, just judging by the pictures "Many Pools" isn't really what we're looking for.
Center of the Universe: I googled for that one and received a few thousand links, but not really a route description
While googling for Crawford Wash I saw a picture that shows what we're looking for (although this particular hike seems to be too much for us). It was on Tanyas website (by the way that's an incredible good website!): http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-parunuweap.htm

Richie

EDIT: Hikes don't have to be only in Zion. Everything between Zion and Boulder, UT is fine.

Has someone been in Neon Canyon - HITRR? This canyon seems to be so beautiful, but when I read travel reports it always sounds like the canyon is very short. I'm not sure if the hike to the canyon is also nice. Don't want to do a long, rather boring hike just for 20 minutes in a slot. Can someone tell me about the hike?

Richie

Thanks Richie.... Many Pools can be a nice easy stroll or a tough hike all the way to Zion's East Rim. Its best done on a dry winter day or anytime there has been a lot of water. Its lack luster in the summer. On the http://www.zionnational-park.com website the hikes are listed from easiest to hardest. Many Pools is near the top -easier. You might want to look at the hikes between the 2. http://www.zionnational-park.com/hik...ional-park.htm

You can do Parunuweap (East Fork of the Virgin River) in the winter - and its a good all day hike with great scenery that takes you to the river and back the same way you came. These directions avoid the technical section of Fat Mans Misery.... You would have to carry a wet/dry suit, etc... to explore in the river, but I like just the hike to the Powell Plaque and back this time of year.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/parunuweap-hike.htm

Thanks Tanya. The time of travelling there is our biggest problem we have right now. Because right now it looks like we do half Oregon and half Southwest. First one almost summer is better, in Southwest earlier would be better. Altough we hiked Big Horn Canyon last year in July and it was ok. Just camping at the Valley of Fire was horrible. I was sweating that I should have worn a wetsuit in the tent :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

I had a look at your great album of Parunuweap Canyon. When you do this hike in late spring, how far can we hike it without a wetsuit? Is it possible to see some of the Narrows or is Powell Plaque the end of the trip?

I don't like to be in cold water so I opt for this as a summer trip and also avoid taking a wet/drysuit when I can. Others might have different opinions but I would think the best time to do Pweap is late summer/early fall while the water is warm, lower and yet its not as hot as mid-summer. Perhaps late August to early September. You have to hike in the water to see the narrows. What you would see in a winter hike without the wet/drysuit would be the river and the plaque. Bo just always walks right to things, so its never been a problem, its like he has some bat radar or something, but others have a hard time finding it. You enter the river right by it though. I went through the first time when the water was high and it was a challenge getting through the river! Lost a camera, and was exhausted at its end!

Thank you Tanya.
Right now it looks like we will be there in the last 10 days of June.

Another hike that is wonderful that time of year, and which has a small window in which its usually done is Bridge Mountain to Crawford Arch.
You would need one climber with you, but Bo is usually up for taking new people out.

There are 2 arches along this hike. Its one of my favorites.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/zio...e-mountain.htm

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Thanks Tanya. I already saw that one on your website. You see, I spent a lot of time on your website :mrgreen:

Guess I will make more plans this weekend because I ordered Kelseys' book yesterday. Then I can decide how many days we need in GSENM area and how many in the Zion Area.

:wink:

Another idea "off the beaten path" in Zion : East Temple Loop. Beautiful scenery, no trail and just slickrock most of the hike, nobody, needs just a couple of hours. You can see some pictures of it in the fifth part of my report of my 2009 trip, at day 18 (Google translation do an acceptable job)

Philippe

Has anyone of you ever been to Deer Canyon and/or Tank Canyon near Skutumpah Road?

@ Philippe : Just read your report 2009 (by the way: google translation can sometimes be so funny :mrgreen::mrgreen: - Unfortunately it always did only translate the first half of the page).

The pictures are so incredible beautiful :hail2thechief::hail2thechief::hail2thechief:

Hi Richie,

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Originally Posted by Richie

@ Philippe : Just read your report 2009 (by the way: google translation can sometimes be so funny :mrgreen::mrgreen: - Unfortunately it always did only translate the first half of the page).

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Did you translate it in English or in German ?

Which part did you read ?

I just tried the Google translation in English (using the button on the Google bar) and the whole text that I wrote was translated in English, but some of the comments further on the page were not trandslated.

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The pictures are so incredible beautiful :hail2thechief::hail2thechief::hail2thechief:

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Thank you very much, I am happy to read that you appreciated them.

Philippe

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Did you translate it in English or in German ?

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Tried to translate it in German. But probably it could also been caused by my internet connection. It was very slow.

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Thank you very much, I am happy to read that you appreciated them.

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Really. Some of the best shots I've ever seen in my life.

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Really. Some of the best shots I've ever seen in my life.

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:oops::oops::oops:

I especially love that one where it says "Un petit dinosaure :" Also the Devils Garden at sunset pictures are great.

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Originally Posted by Richie

I especially love that one where it says "Un petit dinosaure :"

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I like this one too (it won an award at a contest organized by the photoclub of the big company where I work).

Little Finland, Nevada :

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Also the Devils Garden at sunset pictures are great.

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The light was great during a short time and I was nearly runing from one place to another shooting handeld. Sometimes, we are lucky with the light...

Philippe

Wow! Spectacular!:eek2:

Tanya, you said you want to visit the Brainrocks Area near Buckskin Trailhead?
Do you own "Hiking and Exploring the Paria River 5th Edition"? There's a very good chapter about that area in this book, including directions.

@ Philippe:

Have you been just exploring the Edmaiers Secret area north of the dome shaped mountain. Had a look into Kelseys book today and he describes the area south of that mountain as much more photogenic.

I am sure I do. I have most of Kelsy's books! He is amazing!

Tried to make a "time-shedule". The trip will be 22 days overall with half Southwest - half Oregon coast (flight from L.V. to Portland)

So the Southwest-part will look like this:

Day 1: Arriva at L.V.
Day 2: L.V. - Valley of Fire State Park -Kanab
Day 3: Kanab - Water Pockets (West Clark Bench)
Day 4: Kanab - Middle Reservoir / Sand Hills if we can make it there, if not: Cobra Arch and Paria Rimrocks or Sidestep Canyon
Day 5: Kanab - Deer Canyon / Tank Canyon - Escalante
Day 6: Escalante - Phipps Arch (but not starting at Escalante River Trailhead but Old Sheffield Road)
Day 7: Escalante - Not planned yet
Day 8: Escalante - Cannonville Slot Canyons - Springdale
Day 9: Zion - East Temple Look
Day 10: Zion - Not planned yet
Day 11: Half Day at Zion - Las Vegas
Day 12: Flight to Portland

I'm not sure about a few things:
The day that is not planned in Escalante: We could either go to a slot canyon, then Zebra and Tunnel Slot come to my mind. But we prefer colorful slickrock (like Yellow Rock or Big Hor Canyon). But I'm not sure which area would be a nice spot for that. I#ve seen a lot of great picks from around Sheffield Road but not much of directions.

Deer Canyon and/or Tank Canyon: I found that one on Kelseys book. There are not many picks around in the internet. Has anyone been there and can say somethings about those canyons?

Richie

Interesting schedule with seldom seen places !

I did appreciate the loop Zebra Slot - Tunnel Slot with nice slickrock in Zebra and between the 2 slots.

I've never been in Deer Canyon and Tank Canyon but Isa & Steffen were not so enthusiastic than Kelsey when they wrote a short report about it here.

Philippe