Fig 8 contingency jamming

So on the final rap in Pine last week, I had the need to lower my partner from the get go.

I had a Bluewater Fig 8 (forged and beefy) rigged for the lower against the rapide. This was on the regular anchor, not the alternate. When he stepped out and pendulumed, the 8 dragged along the face and flipped over, pinching the rope and making a lower impossible.

As I pondered the situation and tugged and pulled, my partner nearly passed out from fear. He did not appreciate being hung up and dangling off the deck. Eventually, with enough force and pulling, and a bit of help from his legs, we got the 8 flipped in such a way as to allow the uneventful lower.

Questions:

-- It seems this can happen on many raps. I hadn't given it thought before, as the use of the contingency is rare. I got the 8 on its edge, which unpinched the rope. I'd rather not have to get lucky to make a good lower. Thoughts and comments.

-- Say I wasn't able to get the 8 flipped and unpinched. I'd need to lock the contingency and rig a raise. What are your suggestions? I had a plan in mind, but want to hear others. Keep in mind there are two bolts, one large and one small, in roughly a vertical alignment with each other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dougr

So on the final rap in Pine last week, I had the need to lower my partner from the get go.

I had a Bluewater Fig 8 (forged and beefy) rigged for the lower against the rapide. This was on the regular anchor, not the alternate. When he stepped out and pendulumed, the 8 dragged along the face and flipped over, pinching the rope and making a lower impossible.

As I pondered the situation and tugged and pulled, my partner nearly passed out from fear. He did not appreciate being hung up and dangling off the deck. Eventually, with enough force and pulling, and a bit of help from his legs, we got the 8 flipped in such a way as to allow the uneventful lower.

Questions:

-- It seems this can happen on many raps. I hadn't given it thought before, as the use of the contingency is rare. I got the 8 on its edge, which unpinched the rope. I'd rather not have to get lucky to make a good lower. Thoughts and comments.

-- Say I wasn't able to get the 8 flipped and unpinched. I'd need to lock the contingency and rig a raise. What are your suggestions? I had a plan in mind, but want to hear others. Keep in mind there are two anchors, one large and one small, in roughly a vertical alignment with each other.

---

A good example of that whatever techniques you expect to use need to be practiced in a variety of real-world situations, so you can figure out what works and what does not.

There are lots of ways to do a lower - like a contingency 8 would not be my first choice. But then again, I do not USE a contingency 8 so I would not even consider this a choice.

I would like to point out that there are two BOLTS, but there is only one anchor. Thankfully, both bolts are quite robust.

Tom

Tom,

What would be your contending lower riggings? I use the 8 as my go to contingency, but when faced with a lower from the get go, I'm not well versed. Thinking back, I can see many cases where a pinch would have affected a lower, so I need to learn more.

Thanks.

OP edited --> anchors to bolts. Of course!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dougr

I had a Bluewater Fig 8 (forged and beefy) rigged for the lower against the rapide. This was on the regular anchor, not the alternate. When he stepped out and pendulumed, the 8 dragged along the face and flipped over, pinching the rope and making a lower impossible.

---

When you say you had it "rigged for lower against the rapide"...how, exactly, did you have it rigged? Do you have a picture? Ie, how did you rig the figure eight? Did you have a draw clipped to the small end hole? Etc.

When I know I have to lower someone, I don't lower through a fixed anchor as that wears the anchor out and I should be using my own carabiners for a lower. So, while I might feed the rope through the rapide to save time, I'll add a quickdraw or locking carabiner that actually takes the weight and wear of the lower.

Then, I set up to lower from my harness with usually an ATC, and its a slingshot set up with the rope from the device to the anchor then to my partner. I'll add friction at the start if my partner is large, and, the rope is small.

My bet is Tom uses a Munter/mule for contingency, but, if he knew he had to lower...not sure. What say ye, Tom?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dougr

What would be your contending lower riggings? I use the 8 as my go to contingency, but when faced with a lower from the get go, I'm not well versed. Thinking back, I can see many cases where a pinch would have affected a lower, so I need to learn more.

---

dougr, you are about to see the most dorked up over-complex thread you have ever seen. I predict at least 80 posts. :haha: Go ahead and ask for a refund from the dude that taught you about a contingency 8.

I like how you've shared a hardship. Please don't take any of my commentary as snarkiness aimed in your direction.

My solution: I'd throw a sling around that little arch a few feet back from the final anchor in Pine Creek, then clip an ATC to the sling (or an 8 in your case). Thread your rope through the ATC, then through the anchor, then tie it to your partner. Then lower him, just like you would when lowering a climbing partner.

If the arch wasn't there, then I'd be a meat anchor for the ATC. We do this all of the time. My friend uses this setup as a "shock absorber" when he is a meat anchor. He just lets out a bit of rope when somebody bounces hard, to take the stress off his harness. Very clever. So subtle that person on the rope doesn't even notice.

I don't smoke, but if I did, I'd enjoy one while lowing my partner. It is that easy.

Tom @ratagonia (joking and friendly tone), why not throw out how you would do it on your first post? Be a friend to the Bogleyites man! :mrgreen: :haha:

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20121015190236@brian in slc, I had the 8 blocked like the attached photo. That's how I tie it in contingency form as well, the "Tom Jones" way. But in this case it wasn't tied off from the get go, but rather in lowering mode from the get go. Hence I didn't have a draw clipped to the small hole.

More info: I decided to use the Fig 8 lower rather than through a belay device on my harness since I was concerned about getting tugged over (or jerked in any way) when he pendulumed out. That last rap has the obvious quick 0 to 100% loading and I didn't know what to expect in the way of dynamics. In hindsight I was a bit hopped up since he was unable to rap, and was being extra cautious not to get myself in a fix as well. Can imagine hanging from my tie in while lowering him through my rap device. Geeze.

@Slot Machine I actually do use the belay device on my harness w/redirect through the anchor. I did that on the immediately previous rap in Pine that day, as my partner was done at that point. I did not use my own biner to save wear on the rapide, I will do so from now on. I'll consider the meat anchor or other anchor approach as well. I'm not enthralled with the idea at first blush, as it involves more gear and setup, but maybe moving everything from that edge would have been better, since the geometry is such that any lowering setup at the anchor would seem to be susceptible to pinching under load against that face there. That to me is the real question. How to avoid a bollux there like I had. Hence moving to a harness device lowering might be best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dougr

More info: I decided to use the Fig 8 lower rather than through a belay device on my harness since I was concerned about getting tugged over (or jerked in any way) when he pendulumed out. That last rap has the obvious quick 0 to 100% loading and I didn't know what to expect in the way of dynamics. In hindsight I was a bit hopped up since he was unable to rap, and was being extra cautious not to get myself in a fix as well. Can imagine hanging from my tie in while lowering him through my rap device. Geeze.

---

Ah. That all makes sense. That last rap is bit unusual. Being hopped up there is common. That was my second canyon, so I know I was. :eek2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dougr

Slot Machine I actually do use the belay device on my harness w/redirect through the anchor. I did that on the immediately previous rap in Pine that day, as my partner was done at that point. I did not use my own biner to save wear on the rapide, I will do so from now on. I'll consider the meat anchor or other anchor approach as well. I'm not enthralled with the idea at first blush, as it involves more gear and setup, but maybe moving everything from that edge would have been better, since the geometry is such that any lowering setup at the anchor would seem to be susceptible to pinching under load against that face there. That to me is the real question. How to avoid a bollux there like I had. Hence moving to a harness device lowering might be best.

---

It has been a few years since I've been there, so my memory is foggy. I'm pretty sure my suggested setup would pull the rapide away from the wall and eliminate the chance of a pinch. But I can't remember how vertical that wall is... Doesn't that rapide hang free in the first place, for a perfectly clean pull? Could somebody post a photo of this rap station?

figure 8 contingency is fine for a lower.

At the last rap station, you could tether yourself to the anchor, with a long tether.(you'll need to do this regardless of method of lower)

Then hook the figure 8 device with a shorter tether, lean back to free the eight from the rapide and lower.

Pretty basic straight forward stuff, BUT--stuff that needs to be practiced prior to dangling your partner 85' off the deck.:facepalm1:

A Petzl spelegyca works great or just use sewn runners.

Basic, did I mention anywhere--basic!

And DO NOT lower from your harness unless you are tethered solidly to a large object, or strategically positioned so as to avoid going over the edge following your lowering victim :crazy:

If it's not basic to you, you shouldn't be there.

and practice

basic stuff

don't die

darwin always wins

don't be a statistic

an 85' sudden stop can kill you

basic

if you want thrill, base jump

practice

basic stuff,

in a safe location

don't practice in canyons

body's at the bottom of raps, slows subsequent groups

don't die at bottom of rap

basic

practice

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slot Machine

Tom @ratagonia (joking and friendly tone), why not throw out how you would do it on your first post? Be a friend to the Bogleyites man! :mrgreen: :haha:

---

I like to let my Bogleyite friends chime in first, before turning over all the cards...

The anchor can be rigged short or long. With a short-rigged webbing, there will be a tendency of any lowering system off the anchor to be trapped against the rock. I more often see it rigged long, which makes the start quite a bit more awkward, especially for beginners.

When setting up a lowering system, one should not become over-fascinated with also setting up the rope for retrieval at the same time. Set up the best system for the lower; then set up the best system for the rope retrieval. Setting up for retrieval can make the lowering considerably more difficult.

I would lower off a munter on the anchor, although I might put a chain of locking biners there to make sure the orientation would not trap the munter against the rock. I like putting a sling around the arch, and using that for my safety attachment, which also lets me pull the munter (or other lowering system) out from the rock, as Kurty suggested.

While the "top rope" lower works, with only a short distance between the anchor and the lowerer, it CAN be difficult to lower smoothly. I would definitely want to be tied in behind me to the arch if doing this.

Tom

Note for future setups:

- anchor from behind for me

- tether to the lowering setup to allow body pulling to unstick

- a biner or two extension off the anchor to allow easier reorientation of the lowering setup

Thanks for the comments. Will get out and practice these dynamics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slot Machine

But I can't remember how vertical that wall is... Doesn't that rapide hang free in the first place, for a perfectly clean pull? Could somebody post a photo of this rap station?

---

This is exaggerated but how I recall the hanging. If it was purely vert I don't see how it could have been pinched with such force?

http://i.imgur.com/6fXlLlW.jpg

pendulum-ing out on an anchor (even a bomber one) would make me nervous

The surface is at about 80 degrees... maybe 70 degrees at the least.

Tom