New Bolts / Rappel in The Subway

I hiked the Subway with a group of friends yesterday and noticed there were several new bolts placed in the canyon. They also used florescent green webbing to attach the rapids. The first set was located on the 10' down climb off the large bolder at the start of the canyon, there's a redundant set of anchors about 5' up canyon and also a large tree that can be used to rappel off so the new bolts are unnecessary. The second set was located on the opposite side of the canyon from the bolts used for the last rappel. The large log that aided in stepping over the waterfall was washed away recently making it more difficult and intimidating to cross over the falls. It's about a 50' drop off the new anchors and there's a swimmer at the bottom.

I believe Mr T Jones added those new bolts earlier in the year. He made a post about it. I think he even said specifically that he placed those bolt on the last rap becuae he was worried about the logs washing away. Sounds like a good rap to me. No more handlining that last drop if it is a 50 footer.

Or you could be a badass like tommyboy on here and just downclimb by where the logs use to be, by the waterfall room and skip rappelling all together.

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Originally Posted by UtahAdventureGuide

I hiked the Subway with a group of friends yesterday and noticed there were several new bolts placed in the canyon. They also used florescent green webbing to attach the rapids. The first set was located on the 10' down climb off the large boulder at the start of the canyon, there's a redundant set of anchors about 5' up canyon and also a large tree that can be used to rappel off so the new bolts are unnecessary. The second set was located on the opposite side of the canyon from the bolts used for the last rappel. The large log that aided in stepping over the waterfall was washed away recently making it more difficult and intimidating to cross over the falls. It's about a 50' drop off the new anchors and there's a swimmer at the bottom.

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Trip report here: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/...in-the-subway/

Which was October 2012.

I'm not responsible for whatever webbing someone else throws on my anchors.

The reasoning of how I set up the first set is discussed in the Rave.

There may be new bolts put in by someone else, though I did not see them last time through, a few weeks ago.

As mentioned, the last set is for when the logs wash out. 50 feet??? Uh, 30 feet at most. Pretty sure that lands on rock in the corridor, often a swim required downstream from there when the sand is mostly washed out.

It's great that you noticed the new anchors. Did you have an opinion about them?

Tom

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Originally Posted by canyonguru

I believe Mr T Jones added those new bolts earlier in the year. He made a post about it. I think he even said specifically that he placed those bolt on the last rap becuae he was worried about the logs washing away. Sounds like a good rap to me. No more handlining that last drop if it is a 50 footer.

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What what what??? When someone finds a bolt in their backyard, they usually tend to blame it on the Europeans.

I find it hard to believe that Mr T bolted it. Over the years I heard MANY stories of Mr T blasting off bolts put in by someone else, in multiple canyons, in multiple states, even multiple countries [although some may not consider Mexico a different country]. In all those years I NEVER EVER heard a single story of Mr T putting bolts IN.
If confirmed, I'm going to extort a boatload of free Imlay Canyon gear in exchange for not reporting this to the Utah Bolt Police! :-P

Ok, now seriously, my opinion is that if bolts and chains are installed to:
a) avoid unnecessary grooves and erosion in the sandstone
b) save eyes from the damage of seeing fluorescent webbing (possible multiple colors)
c) avoid a potential rescue or future causality (in my book a life is worth more than a bolt)

then the installer may deserve a pat in the back rather than a stab.
Who deserves a stab is the idiot that buys fluerescent webbing

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Originally Posted by lucach

I find it hard to believe that Mr T bolted it... In all those years I NEVER EVER heard a single story of Mr T putting bolts IN.

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I don't think you've been paying attention then.:ne_nau: Tom's been doing a bunch of nice bolt work replacing/installing bolts in trade route canyons. Usually writes up a nice post on his site about it too.

Yeah Mr T tries to keep bolts out of non bolted canyons, but the trade routes and ones where there are already tons of bolts he tries to make sure that they are installed properly. Its interesting how my opinion on bolts has changed as I've gotten more experience. I don't think I'll ever chop a bolt or go on Jihad, but I understand alot better why bolts are unecessary in most of the places where they have been installed.

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

The reasoning of how I set up the first set is discussed in the Rave.

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After reading your description it makes sense. Our group managed to handline off the new anchors at the top of the boulder, I used a set of aiders to help with the drop at the bottom where the water was about knee deep.

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

As mentioned, the last set is for when the logs wash out. 50 feet??? Uh, 30 feet at most. Pretty sure that lands on rock in the corridor, often a swim required downstream from there when the sand is mostly washed out.

It's great that you noticed the new anchors. Did you have an opinion about them?

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The logs are completely washed out now and crossing the gap is sketchy if you're not comfortable with the jump. A couple of us jumped across and used a handline while the rest of the group rappelled into the water. I think I had 70' of rope with me so 30' sounds about right.

It looks like the canyon had flashed more than once this season so I kept a close eye on the water levels and weather patterns in the area. I knew we had to be out of the canyon by about 2:00 in the afternoon (we missed our target by about 45 minutes). We heard thunder overhead as we made our way up the hike out and this was the view from the parking lot. There were 6 people that I know of that were hiking from the bottom up so I hope they turned around when they heard the thunder.
Attachment 68160

I still don't know why ANYONE rappels the boulder obstacle. There is a simple walk down at that location it's just a little hidden. If the bolts were not there to suck people to poor locations more folks would discover the walk down.

The following is from: http://climb-utah.com/Zion/subway.htm

The first major obstacle is a large boulder. Experienced canyoneers can downclimb (or rappel) the front of the boulder. There is a route around the north (right) side of the boulder that looks inviting but that is the worst of the options and requires an awkward rappel. The best way around the boulder is to look over against the south (left) canyon wall. If you look carefully you will notice a large hole that you can downclimb through. The hole is somewhat hidden and is overlooked by most parties, but finding the hole will make this obstacle easy to bypass. Crawl through the hole and you will find yourself standing in a large chamber. Scramble down to the bottom of the chamber and you will find anther large opening through some boulders. Crawl through the opening and you will find yourself standing in ankle deep water at the base of the large boulder that was your initial obstacle. This turns the boulder obstacle into an easy bypass, the two holes are not tight or difficult to crawl through.

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

I still don't know why ANYONE rappels the boulder obstacle. There is a simple walk down at that location it's just a little hidden. If the bolts were not there to suck people to poor locations more folks would discover the walk down.

The following is from: http://climb-utah.com/Zion/subway.htm

The first major obstacle is a large boulder. Experienced canyoneers can downclimb (or rappel) the front of the boulder. There is a route around the north (right) side of the boulder that looks inviting but that is the worst of the options and requires an awkward rappel. The best way around the boulder is to look over against the south (left) canyon wall. If you look carefully you will notice a large hole that you can downclimb through. The hole is somewhat hidden and is overlooked by most parties, but finding the hole will make this obstacle easy to bypass. Crawl through the hole and you will find yourself standing in a large chamber. Scramble down to the bottom of the chamber and you will find anther large opening through some boulders. Crawl through the opening and you will find yourself standing in ankle deep water at the base of the large boulder that was your initial obstacle. This turns the boulder obstacle into an easy bypass, the two holes are not tight or difficult to crawl through.

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X2. I agree, it is a simple one to miss. I've seen people easily waste an hour trying to rappel this rock with a group of 6 or so when they could of used that time.

I saw this same thing where a downclimb in Keyhole is. Where there is old webbing around a rock in the upper slot that is no more than 5 feet tall, I've seen people rappel that. And I also remember talking to a noob group at the end of keyhole who said it took their group 4 hours to do the canyon and it's "6 rappels". Hmm...Complicating things when they shouldn't be...

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

I still don't know why ANYONE rappels the boulder obstacle. There is a simple walk down at that location it's just a little hidden. If the bolts were not there to suck people to poor locations more folks would discover the walk down.

The following is from: http://climb-utah.com/Zion/subway.htm

The first major obstacle is a large boulder. Experienced canyoneers can downclimb (or rappel) the front of the boulder. There is a route around the north (right) side of the boulder that looks inviting but that is the worst of the options and requires an awkward rappel. The best way around the boulder is to look over against the south (left) canyon wall. If you look carefully you will notice a large hole that you can downclimb through. The hole is somewhat hidden and is overlooked by most parties, but finding the hole will make this obstacle easy to bypass. Crawl through the hole and you will find yourself standing in a large chamber. Scramble down to the bottom of the chamber and you will find anther large opening through some boulders. Crawl through the opening and you will find yourself standing in ankle deep water at the base of the large boulder that was your initial obstacle. This turns the boulder obstacle into an easy bypass, the two holes are not tight or difficult to crawl through.

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Before there were bolts there, very few found the unlikely crawl-through. People who handlined through, while I was drilling bolts there, had done the canyon 20+ times, and had no interest in the crawl-through, preferring to handline down the hole. So it is not the bolts that "suck people to poor locations".

Tom

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

had no interest in the crawl-through, preferring to handline down the hole.

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I should know this.... two years ago we came through and three groups (approx. 15 people) were queued up at the boulder waiting their turn to try and break a leg on the crappy right side anchors. My group just blew through the rabbit holes and were around all three groups while they were still trying to get one scared girl down. I figured someone would follow us, but nope, last I saw they were all still queued at the top of the boulder trying to get the same scared girl down as when we arrived. We never saw any of those groups again... you can't fix stupid.

:popcorn: