Winter Wash

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08-10-2012, 12:09 PM
Mountaineer

4 Attachment(s)

MMI/Lost & Found/Winter Wash

Hit these canyons this week. Some water, but all avoidable. Besides the heat, we had a great time. We loved the discovery and each challenge. Down climbs, setting up the raps, negotiating some precarious boulders...Always makes for a fun outing. My seven year had a blast, and by continually pouring water over his head made it back OK. :hair: We ended up doing Winter camp wash late in the evening (headlamps out).

Stopped at Rays after all the work, and found the place packed! I overheard that the park rangers are recommending it, so the secret is out.

This was my first time in these canyons, and the rope grooves here are pronounced and horrible. Please everyone be careful on how you place and pull your ropes. We ended up extending the webbing on the last rap on MMI another 40' or so (still safe) to help reduce all the marks. Winter camp wash is getting a lot of wear also. May be a good place to consider a stone/fiddlestick or set it up as 2 raps.

He needs a harness and tether for that pic!
Attachment 57464

MMI Rap to the boulders
Attachment 57465

Overlooking Winter Camp Wash. Very cool geology and view here!
Attachment 57466

Rope grooves at Winter Camp Wash. Moved the rope over to the other side after we were done for a clean pull.
Attachment 57467
08-10-2012, 12:27 PM
Eric Holden

Very pretty cool pics! Can't wait till my own little one is old enough to come with daddy!
08-10-2012, 02:26 PM
moab mark

Nice, ya I would bet hiking out was a bit toasty. Did your Son do both MM1 and Lost and Found in the same day? Is Lost and Found the same as Undercover?
08-10-2012, 02:40 PM
jman

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

Nice, ya I would bet hiking out was a bit toasty. Did your Son do both MM1 and Lost and Found in the same day? Is Lost and Found the same as Undercover?

yup same canyon. Undercover=shane, Lost and Found=AJ

Thanks Mountaineer for the TR. Which did you like better out of the two canyons? My group thinks that MMI is a skippable one, but Undercover is the "best" one out in that area.
08-10-2012, 02:47 PM
moab mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by jman

yup same canyon. Undercover=shane, Lost and Found=AJ

Thanks Mountaineer for the TR. Which did you like better out of the two canyons? My group thinks that MMI is a skippable one, but Undercover is the "best" one out in that area.

That's what I thought.
08-10-2012, 03:20 PM
Iceaxe

Undercover is the historic name used by the Moab guides for the past 15 plus years.... its not my name as I seldom/ never create new names if I can find a known name.

The one rule on this is don't show up after I post your secret route and expect me to switch the name. About 99% of the time I use the name given to me with the beta if its not a route I "pioneered".

YMMV

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08-10-2012, 03:45 PM
Mountaineer

Quote:

Originally Posted by jman

Thanks Mountaineer for the TR. Which did you like better out of the two canyons? My group thinks that MMI is a skippable one, but Undercover is the "best" one out in that area.

We enjoyed Undercover/Lost&Found the most. More scenic. Although MMI is fun with the steep ramp to boulder challenge. We did Undercover and Winter the same day, and then MMI early the next one. If it wasn't so hot, a strong group could easily do all 3 in a day (with maybe Winter Camp at dusk).
08-11-2012, 10:22 AM
moabmatt

We called it Undercover because of Covert Arch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceaxe

Undercover is the historic name used by the Moab guides for the past 15 plus years.... its not my name as I seldom/ never create new names if I can find a known name.
08-11-2012, 02:17 PM
Sandstone Addiction

Great pics and TR! Thanks for sharing. :2thumbs:

Does your boy rappel on his own, or does he do something else?
08-11-2012, 05:12 PM
Mountaineer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandstone Addiction

Great pics and TR! Thanks for sharing. :2thumbs:

Does your boy rappel on his own, or does he do something else?

No, we belay him carefully down with a rope guard. I wouldn't trust him on a rappel yet. And when ready in a couple of years, with a fireman below and belay from above. He is actually really good at figure eights, the clove hitch, and bowline. :2thumbs:
08-12-2012, 01:29 AM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

No, we belay him carefully down with a rope guard. I wouldn't trust him on a rappel yet. And when ready in a couple of years, with a fireman below and belay from above. He is actually really good at figure eights, the clove hitch, and bowline. :2thumbs:

I'm sorry. What?

Do you lower him, using a ropeguard to protect the edge?

In the future, you plan to have him rappel "on his own" with both a bottom belay and a top belay using a separate rope?

Tom
08-12-2012, 06:14 PM
Mountaineer

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

I'm sorry. What?

Do you lower him, using a ropeguard to protect the edge?

In the future, you plan to have him rappel "on his own" with both a bottom belay and a top belay using a separate rope?

Tom

Yes - a rope guard to protect the sandstone from getting cut up. Although it is hard to keep in position (on a tether to an anchor works OK).
As a next step with my older kids, I've done a top belay with a separate rope with another adult below (not the best). If the anchor is in a good position, belaying from the bottom (top rope) is much easier. They rap on a separate rope.
08-12-2012, 06:51 PM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Yes - a rope guard to protect the sandstone from getting cut up. Although it is hard to keep in position (on a tether to an anchor works OK).
As a next step with my older kids, I've done a top belay with a separate rope with another adult below (not the best). If the anchor is in a good position, belaying from the bottom (top rope) is much easier. They rap on a separate rope.

May I suggest that you can have him be 100% safe with an attentive bottom belay, and that the top belay is redundant. Now, it is true that the top belay gives an overwhelming sense of security - granted. In guiding, we like to use the bottom belay (and the autobloc) because they DON'T give an overwhelming sense of security. An overwhelming sense of security tends to get in the way of a feeling of accomplishment.

When appropriate.

Tom
08-12-2012, 07:04 PM
Mountaineer

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

May I suggest that you can have him be 100% safe with an attentive bottom belay, and that the top belay is redundant. Now, it is true that the top belay gives an overwhelming sense of security - granted. In guiding, we like to use the bottom belay (and the autobloc) because they DON'T give an overwhelming sense of security. An overwhelming sense of security tends to get in the way of a feeling of accomplishment.

When appropriate.

Tom

When you say a bottom belay, you mean using the same rope (aka fireman ready?), or another rope as a belay? Great suggestion, especially granting additional feeling of accomplishment. Thanks Tom.
08-12-2012, 07:41 PM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

When you say a bottom belay, you mean using the same rope (aka fireman ready?), or another rope as a belay? Great suggestion, especially granting additional feeling of accomplishment. Thanks Tom.

Yes, bottom belay = fireman's belay.

Tom