The "other" Oak Creek.

So after browsing my maps I've noticed that there are 2 oak creeks in or near Zion. The one directly behind and west of the museum in the main canyon, and the one up on the terrace that meets kolob creek just outside the park boundary. I know the one oak creek drainage near the park entrance is private land and is closed. Does anyone have beta on the othe oak creek up north? Worth the effort? In addition to doing kolob, I'm looking to get off the beaten path a little and find some stuff kind of off the radar. Any info would be great.

Boots

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Originally Posted by Bootboy

Does anyone have beta on the othe oak creek up north? Worth the effort? In addition to doing kolob, I'm looking to get off the beaten path a little and find some stuff kind of off the radar. Any info would be great.

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Oak Creek - South Fork
aka: Eye of the Needle
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/oc-sf1.htm

http://climb-utah.com/Zion/Files/oc-sf1.jpg

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Originally Posted by BW123

The other Oak Creek is a tributary of Kolob Creek (or visa-versa depending on who you ask). Even though it is listed in guidebooks and on the web, nearly the entire Oak Creek drainage lies within private land.

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No need to yell (type in bold or all caps)....

The Oak Creek slot itself is on public land. You must cross private property to access the Canyon.

The south fork requires that you cross about 1/3 mile of private property to access the slot. The private property is owned by the Logandale Stake of the LDS church and is known as Camp Kolob. The church group that owns the property is not happy about canyoneers crossing their property, particularly when they are hosting a young women's group. I assume the problem stems from all the raping and pillaging canyoneers are noted for.

It concerns me greatly when a private landowner can essentially lock up thousands of acres of public land by limiting access.

:cool2:

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Ok, let's get a parcel up there. Seriously.

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Shotgun shack!

Bet there's cheaper...but...a few of us could split something like the below...Bushwacker, what say ye?

List Price: 49,500

Total Bedrooms:

Total Bathrooms:

City: Virgin

Lot Acres: 1.11

Listing Office: ERA BROKERS CONSOLIDATED CEDAR

This 1.11 acre lot has apermitted septic tank for a 5 BR Cabin. It also had three RV pad sites, 1500Gallon Water Tank (not installed), and a shed / bunkhouse with a bathroom.Association Water is with property. Beautiful setting in the meadows with lotsof trees. Barbeque area is also set up. GPS coordinants are N37* 24' 25.7'' W112* 58' 33.0''

Geez, 10 people go in on this one?

Ask about nearby waterfalls? Heck, rappel them!

List Price: 18,000

Total Bedrooms:

Total Bathrooms:

City: Virgin

Lot Acres: 0.43

Listing Office: REALTY ABSOLUTE

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This beautifulrecreation site, on the edge of Zion Park, is the perfect place for your familyretreat. Home to world class hunting, fishing, and ATV trails, Kolob is aparadise for the outdoor enthusiast. Ask about nearby hidden waterfalls.

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Originally Posted by Brian in SLC

Geez, 10 people go in on this one?

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If this lot will give canyoneers access to Oak Creek I'd be happy to pony up for a 1/10th share.... and I bet it wouldn't be to difficult to find nine more benefactors.

Parking for about 4 cars, two pads for tents with access to Oak Creek would be a great gift to canyoneers.

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

If this lot will give canyoneers access to Oak Creek I'd be happy to pony up for a 1/10th share.... and I bet it wouldn't be to difficult to find nine more benefactors.

Parking for about 4 cars, two pads for tents with access to Oak Creek would be a great gift to canyoneers.

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I'm in. What parcel is it exactly?

Kipper? Sniffed out a lot for 15k... We needs a local (or ten) in the mix and maybe a few lawyer types too...ha ha...

Wonder if there's a real estate agent who's saavy on this area. Market's down, prices are good.

I still think it'd be fun to find a spot with water and a shack...

I'll throw down

I'm in for 1/10th and I will build the cabin/yurt or whatever.

The South Fork of Oak Creek is entirely on private land. Oak Creek crosses onto BLM land a few hundred feet below the South Fork / Oak Creek Junction. There has been considerable mis-information on this topic over the years.

Tom

Well...welcome to the party Tom. Nice to see you catch up.

The real access problem for the general public (but not ZAC) is the South Fork which has "church" property on the N and private homes/cabins on the SW. One potentially could/would be charged with trespass if caught walking on posted private land, or if walking on non posted land, was given notice, but did not retreat. One needs to drive a private road to get to the Middle and Main forks of Oak, but there are no structures or buildings in the areas, but there are private property signs?

Buying property into and through the association does not guarantee access to the S Fork. Unless one obtains property abutting the drainage, one would still need to obtain permission for passage. And if property was purchased, annual property taxes and association assessments relating to road rehab, water, etc could/would be annually assessed. A few years back when portions of the road needed repairing, property owners were assessed.

To date, I've never met a reported property owner in the area that knew anything about canyoneering or that had been in the 3 drainages. I have met a regular number of Nevada folk, visiting at the girls camp, that are familiar with the canyons and have descended them. In a few cases, I've met them in the bottom of the canyons.

Tension heightened a few years ago. One web site led folk into the girl scout camp, past structures, past a building where girls wash and shower. Another map surfaced later leading folk down the N side of the drainage, down a party's long (private property) driveway, down through private property and then down to the first rap. Finally the Caretaker of the church property hit the brake, called law enforcement...on the other side of canyon, a private land owner saw/found canyoneers walking through his property, in some early cases he would escort them down to the canyon, but soon thereafter the no go signs went up. Unfortunate in both cases, that better communication didn't predate the posting of S Fork info on the web sites. Whatever. Interesting reminder though, when folks ask and are told it's closed, and then others post photos. Maybe I've never been in the canyons, or driven down the road into the area? Maybe never or maybe more than a dozen times? I don't remember. It's all history at best, and what does it matter? Private property rights trump all? And to heck with public easements, right of ways and gentleman/ladies agreements? For a hefty fee though, ZAC will take your there, or at least they use to, down S Oak and ascending back up Chute; 2-4 folk with a guide.

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Originally Posted by BW123

It might also take someone being arrested and prosecuted to challenge access. Any volunteers?

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Tim DeChristopher gets out of jail in 2014. Or maybe someone from Peaceful Uprising? :haha: