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I'm a newbie, with Keyhole, Pine Creek, and a 3-day course making up my entire resume. I have a permit for Das Boot for May 5th. I've read some route descriptions, and I'm coming up with varying degrees of how difficult it is. Am I doing something similar to what I've already done? Or am I in for something more difficult? Any thoughts would be appreciated!
First thought, much, MUCH, MUCH colder in Das Boot for a much longer period of time in the canyon than any other canyon you have done. . You may (likly?) encounter flowing water this time of year. A couple of the raps are awkward. It is a ton of fun but, again, very little sunlight and super cold, particularly if you are going through with snow runoff. Technically it is not terribly challenging unless something changed during the winter which without a current report is entirely possible. The last anchor that used to be there a few years ago was blown out one winter by a another tree falling on it probably due to an avalance of sorts...??? (If memory serves me correctly, that is) Anyway, I hope others pipe up with current beta for you if that is all the experience you have. I am not dissing your experience I just know how darn cold it is in runoff in there and one little hiccup in there could be very dangerous.
IMHO.... Das Boot is a step up, but its a reasonable step for you to take. None of the routes you have listed required navigation. The biggest difference is Das Boot requires the ability to read a map, route find and navigate.
I assume you are exiting out the Subway, because the other alternative blows.
Das Boot Route Description
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/Files/boot1.jpg http://climb-utah.com/Zion/Files/boot7.jpg
You'll be fine. I think the water temps in Pine Creek and Das Boot are similar. Wetsuit or drysuit definitely required! I don't think it's an order of the magnitude tougher than Pine Creek though. Little tougher but you should be ok, unless you felt Pine Creek was super rough. That reminds me, I need to get some insulated gloves so all my pictures don't turn out like this. Raise yo hands! :lol8:
Attachment 53489
This was back in 2003. I went thru it with Kelsy. That was a seriously dry year but there was plenty of water in there and it was cold, hence the drysuit. This was in June. Don't go in there with just shorts and a tank top!
Hmmmmm.
Depends WHEN you did Pine Creek and what condition it was in then. Das Boot in normal conditions is similar to Pine Creek at its coldest. Generally Das Boot will give you 2 hours in the water. Raps in there vary from year to year.
The other difference - Das Boot is 'backcountry', Pine Creek is next to the road.
Tom :moses:
Agree!! BIG HMMMMMM. Pine Creek you are in and out of water, even with the swims. And now also have spring snow runoff. IMHO be prepared for cold cold.:cold::cold:Quote:
Originally Posted by ratagonia
We did Das Boot on the 4th. Much colder than Pine Creek and flowing lightly (2 cfs best estimate) Navigation is important as the entrance is 100x more difficult to locate than Pine Creek.....which tunnel do I start at? :lol8:
Thanks to everybody for the responses! I ended up doing Pine Creek and Keyhole this last weekend, but Das Boot seems a little less "unknown" now. From your responses, it seems less difficult due to technical issues, and more so due to cold. That I can do!
We did das boot then out the subway last sunday the 6th. conditions were great. lots of cold flowing water made the canyon good. 5mm socks, 3mm gloves. 4/3 full suit with a 3 or 2 shorty stacked worked perfect for us. After finishing das boot, pull the shorty off and do the Subway with the 4/3 full. Entrance is definitely tricky to find. Bluugnome lists all the gps coordinates if you want them.
http://s1070.photobucket.com/albums/...bway%20050612/