How to conquer a monster pothole

Here’s a hypothetical question regarding pothole escape technique:

I have a friend, his name is Gigantor. He is the world’s largest canyoneer. He works a desk job where he spends most of his time posting questions on Bogley. From posting so much, his arms have become weak. He can’t even do a chin-up, so ‘batmanning’ up a rope is not part of his repertoire.

One weekend Gigantor decides to visit Keeper Pothole Canyon to do some canyoneering. Soon he arrives at the mother of all potholes. There is a nearby boulder from which he can easily rappel. The walls of the pothole are smooth and the water in the bottom is deep. He is dismayed when he discovers that it is 25 feet from the surface of the water to the far lip of the pothole. Past the pothole is a downward slope that looks like a suitable place to land a Potshot.

Gigantor has several Potshots on hand and figures he will need to use three or four to establish enough friction to conquer the opposing lip. Because of his weak hands he can only throw one Potshot at a time. He also has several ropes and a wide variety of ascenders and aiders. His stature is such that he hardly notices the weight of his gear.

Gigantor knows that is it a bad idea to attempt this pothole solo, but he is wearing his brand new Go-Pro and wants post a bad ass trip report on Bogley.

How should Gigantor go about conquering the pothole?

don't go alone, that's stupid. let's say his friend fell to the bottom because he was stupid and drowned. Now Gigantor isn't quite so stupid. I'd tie the first pot shot on and huck it across. Then I'd get some shoulder length slings and, attach pot shots to them, hook them onto the rope with a carabiner and toss them across on the same rope attached to the first potshot (shoulder length slings so he can swing them and toss them farther). That should give him enough weight to get up the other side. If he is worried he can't get his etriers set up right in the water, he could try sending a tibloc with a biner down the line with some etrier system attached to it, so he could climb up the other side. Then he could reflect again on how he should have brought more people with him.

Read this for some useful information and ideas...

Canyoneering Primer - A guide to Improve your Skills.

FWIW: You want to throw your potshots BEFORE you are in the soup (if possible), as its almost impossible to toss them any reasonable distance while swimming.

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Originally Posted by ghawk

don't go alone, that's stupid. let's say his friend fell to the bottom because he was stupid and drowned. Now Gigantor isn't quite so stupid. I'd tie the first pot shot on and huck it across. Then I'd get some shoulder length slings and, attach pot shots to them, hook them onto the rope with a carabiner and toss them across on the same rope attached to the first potshot (shoulder length slings so he can swing them and toss them farther). That should give him enough weight to get up the other side. If he is worried he can't get his etriers set up right in the water, he could try sending a tibloc with a biner down the line with some etrier system attached to it, so he could climb up the other side. Then he could reflect again on how he should have brought more people with him.

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Tossing Pot Shots "trolley style" (ie, with a sling clipped to the rope of the one that is already there) has been demonstrated to be ineffective. And if you blow the toss, you can't pull it back and try again.

Basically, the "drag" of the carabiner flowing along the rope really disrupts the flow. The carabiner has to pick the rope up as it flies along, which is a heavy task, unless the throw is really easy.

Tom

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Tossing Pot Shots "trolley style" (ie, with a cling clipped to the rope of the one that is already there) has been demonstrated to be ineffective. And if you blow the toss, you can't pull it back and try again.

Basically, the "drag" of the carabiner flowing along the rope really disrupts the flow. The carabiner has to pick the rope up as it flies along, which is a heavy task, unless the throw is really easy.

Tom

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Ok, so what is the best method for Gigantor to get his 3 or 4 Potshots across? He has several ropes, does he attach a rope to each Potshot? Is it possible for him to ascend 4 ropes?

Bob

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Tossing Pot Shots "trolley style" (ie, with a cling clipped to the rope of the one that is already there) has been demonstrated to be ineffective. And if you blow the toss, you can't pull it back and try again.

Basically, the "drag" of the carabiner flowing along the rope really disrupts the flow. The carabiner has to pick the rope up as it flies along, which is a heavy task, unless the throw is really easy.

Tom

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yeah, I probably shouldn't have posted that part without testing it... was planning to next time I went out :facepalm1: That makes sense about not being able to pull it back if it fails. I think last time I went we used multiple ropes and I've been trying to figure out something better because you want enough weight to be able to get you up, but if the pot hole lip is too big or overhung it might be difficult to just batman up multiple ropes and setting up ascenders across multiple ropes sounds like a major pain. So, Tom... what would you do?

which reduces to: How do we make a rope-grab that can handle several strands of rope?

The best solution I know is to bring along someone who can hand over hand up that kind of a thing. HIGHLY recommended as a solution.

But there are other solutions...

Tom

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Originally Posted by ghawk

don't go alone, that's stupid. let's say his friend fell to the bottom because he was stupid and drowned. Now Gigantor isn't quite so stupid. I'd tie the first pot shot on and huck it across. Then I'd get some shoulder length slings and, attach pot shots to them, hook them onto the rope with a carabiner and toss them across on the same rope attached to the first potshot (shoulder length slings so he can swing them and toss them farther). That should give him enough weight to get up the other side. If he is worried he can't get his etriers set up right in the water, he could try sending a tibloc with a biner down the line with some etrier system attached to it, so he could climb up the other side. Then he could reflect again on how he should have brought more people with him.

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Won't work. The best way to go about it is to use multiple ropes or both ends of a couple ropes. If he is not capable of batmanning up multiple ropes his best bet would likely be to use a friction hitch around all ropes, or a couple friction hitches around half the ropes each.

If this guy is as weak as this scenario paints he should probably stay out of the canyons, or get in to the habit of bringing a climbing gun.

Real men batman out of monster potholes!

Don't have any experience with this kind of situation yet, but couldn't you do a dual prussick setup on multiple ropes with etriers? Tedious, I know, but I'd think it would at least get you out.

Good luck Gigantor! I would just suggest bringing along several bolts kits, just in case. Also tell him to be sure to tie a couple extra knots in the ropes after the potshots, he'll be amazed at what they tend to get stuck/wedged/trapped in. Even really small cracks! One hook and he's out.

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Originally Posted by peakbaggers

Don't have any experience with this kind of situation yet, but couldn't you do a dual prussick setup on multiple ropes with etriers? Tedious, I know, but I'd think it would at least get you out.

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I would try one big Bachman Knot around all the strands first, but pretty difficult to get it to work.

With potshots, there is often a time-bomb effect, so the longer it takes to get out, the greater chance the potshots will pull.

Which is why you look spidey in the eye, point your finger at the top, and say "go"! Then he lowers a rope back down and pulls my plush derriere out of the hole...

For a non-Spidey solution, I am working on a canyon trebuchet... still in the testing phase.

Tom

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

I would try one big Bachman Knot around all the strands first, but pretty difficult to get it to work.

For a non-Spidey solution, I am working on a canyon trebuchet... still in the testing phase.

Tom

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I think I would have to have a canyon trebuchet if it were around... because that sounds awesome! :cool2:

Bob

Is this the canyoneer you speak of?:

http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-cont...t-statue_2.jpg

Weak as he may be, he should be able to belly flop on the opposing lip of the pothole in question and dispatch it without the need for a potshot, I would think.:haha::haha:

Ken

i have used a french braid successfully around multiple strands (3 ? 4 ? been a long time) of rope. but i was descending, not ascending. i seem to recall it was not too difficult to move up the rope though.

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Which is why you look spidey in the eye, point your finger at the top, and say "go"! Then he lowers a rope back down and pulls my plush derriere out of the hole...
Tom

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^^That^^ has always been my solution. Works like a charm. :mrgreen:

Conquer? You said, "conquer"?

Pssshaw, all these canyon elitists saying if you're not strong enough, stay out.

You want to conquer, you whip out the Bosch, and make a via ferrata to pass that pothole. Here's an example in Spain's Costa Blanca:

Attachment 51812
Deep, smooth sided keeper pothole...

Attachment 51813

The ol' via ferrata style run around.

You did say, "conquer."

Sweet!

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachme...7&d=1276272263

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

which reduces to: How do we make a rope-grab that can handle several strands of rope?

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I've never had a problem getting a boring old prussic to grab multiple strands of rope (admittedly never tried it with more than three, and that was just to see if it worked)

Sweet indeed...looks kinda familiar...

Attachment 51814

Take your pick:

Attachment 51815

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

Canyoneering Primer - A guide to Improve your Skills.

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There is a LOT of good stuff on this page... but your thesis contains 16,761 words. My attention span maxes out when I get to the 10,000th word. :haha: Maybe consider breaking this into a couple of pages? I did find the pothole info and it is helpful, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Spidey

Real men batman out of monster potholes!

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Gigantor is a hypothetical friend. He literally is not a real man.

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Which is why you look spidey in the eye, point your finger at the top, and say "go"! Then he lowers a rope back down and pulls my plush derriere out of the hole...

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Uh, ok... Let us all take a moment to bask in the unnecessary pretentiousness that radiates from this statement. :puke: Yes, I get it, you guys hang out. :roll: Still don't care.

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Originally Posted by Deathcricket

I would just suggest bringing along several bolts kits, just in case.

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:lol8::lol8:

"Joey Kinder loves his Bosch. Really."

:roflol:

And yes, above is a picture of my friend Gigantor. He IS real, not hypothetical. Don't judge him. Only food and canyoneering help treat his depression. :haha: