Stuck on Rappel needing rescue.

It's cold and snowy so there's not much to do so I was wondering how many of you seasoned or noob canyoneers have had someone get stuck while rappeling and needed assistance? Or any other screw ups while rappeling. If you have had this experience and had to get creative to solve the problem what did you do?

I have been fortunate in 5+ years have never had a single problem other then a girl one time getting her hair stuck for a second.

If you want to play along, lets hear about some of the train wrecks.

I did screw up one time though and leave my pack at the top and had to jug up and get it.

Mark

oh man, i know of a couple golden mishaps... getting stuck on rappel has happened to a few people. both times, it was a girl, hair got stuck...

one guy i know might be coerced into sharing one from pine creek.

the other happened in death valley, here's a chat about it:

Girl: i have a CRAZY canyoneering story for you...
me: what happened?
8:36 AM Girl: i almost died
me: whaaa
who were you with
8:39 AM Girl: I was with _____ and like 6 other people. Basically, my hair got TOTALLY tangled in the ropes on a 200ft rappel and I was stuck 100ft off the ground for over an hour

For me shirt caught in device ( I have short hair and wear a helmet most times caving so no worries. Now have a hole in that shirt.)
Rigged a device incorrectly at the top of a 60 footer, I was resting with my back on a chockstone and my feet on the wall. I was looking at it and said to my boyfriend "this looks wrong". He shrugged and said try it anyway, looks like plenty of friction. I rerigged correctly and looked at him and said "yeah, and you'll sleep by yourself tonite"
We have a great relationship....

I sucked my shirt through the rappel device once.

My pony tail went through once!

And the tip of my thumb briefly before I pulled it back.. OUCH!!!!

another one of hair stuck - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/message/32219

This from the archives, maybe 7-8 years ago

Got a knife?

On my recent 16 day Zion trip, we were blessed with fine weather,
great friends, both new and old and wonderful adventure and fun, day
after day. On day 3 we did have a mishap. We were a group of 10,
doing Pine Creek. There were 5 adults (Loosely) and 5 children, ages
12,11,11,9, and 7 from 3 families. The 7 year old, my daughter Amy,
was doing the last free rap of 100 feet. When you weigh 60Lbs, you
actually need to feed the rope through to make progress and progress
she was making in a cool and collected fashion which gave me great
pride. About 30 feet from the bottom she cried out that her hair was
stuck and started to scream. In a calm, that belied my real state, I
called up and asked her to calm down and be quiet so we could solve
the problem for her. To her credit, she complied immediately and I
could hear her hum softly, which has been her preferred method of
self control for years.

We had a second rope, by which an adult from above could have
descended, but by shear luck, she was at the exact height, where, I
could, with parental adrenaline pumping, climb the spring and the
rib above, and with help from below guiding her over to me, cut the
hair and allow her to continue down.

The hair was in the devise and the devise was right against her
scalp. Delicate work.

Epilogue-The thread, a couple of months ago, about hair getting
stuck had not been missed. Yet we still found trouble. Amy had been
wearing a baseball cap all day and had the hair going through the
hole in the back. She had taken her hat off on top of the rap and no
one had caught it. OOPS! Tying into a bun became the religious
practice for the rest of the trip.

Special thanx to Roy Serati, who
was sharing fireman duty with me, for being calm, when I was dazed,
and handing the knife into my shaking hand. Also, thanx to Mike
Hickey, who was prepared to descent and solve the problem. Finally,
kudos to Mom, Saint Judy, for being so collected, when busting, was
probably the first instinct.

Mom and I did get to listen to Amy talk in her sleep the next two
nights, with the sound of anxiety in her voice, as she worked out
her trauma. We would wake her and ask her what she was dreaming
about. She would tell some tale about school, but Mom and Dad would
imagine other issues working themselves out. Amy wears the cut hair,
all 4 inches of it, as a bracelet when the mood suits her and
appears no worse for the wear. She did Mystery, in style, 2 days
later and gave her slide show to the 1st grade with flare. Lucky are
we.

Ram and Clan

My neighbor has a buddy that had the same experience at pine creek. His daughter got her hair caught on the last rappel. He rappeled down and cut her free. The funny part was the next day she had a school dance. Her dad had to spring for major extenstions for her hair. According to him they are pricey. :frustrated:

Mark

I was lucky... my pony tail just began to go in and I pulled it out quickly so there was no problem and no one even knew it happened, but me --- it hurt! ~whew~

Just wonder how many of these "problems" could have been resolved easily by having the rope rigged with a contingency block?

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Originally Posted by Pelon1

Just wonder how many of these "problems" could have been resolved easily by having the rope rigged with a contingency block?

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well, the shirt/hair/nipple/thumb suck wouldn't be solved...unless I'm missing something.

Here's another one: guide hand caught under rope at sharp lip. ouch.

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Originally Posted by hank moon

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Originally Posted by Pelon1

Just wonder how many of these "problems" could have been resolved easily by having the rope rigged with a contingency block?

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well, the shirt/hair/nipple/thumb suck wouldn't be solved...unless I'm missing something.

Here's another one: guide hand caught under rope at sharp lip. ouch.

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Releasing a rope and lowering someone sure seems easier than setting up another rope and rappelling down and cutting hair or shirt to release someone on a rope? Especially a child.
[quote=CarpeyBiggs]Basically, my hair got TOTALLY tangled in the ropes on a 200ft rappel and I was stuck 100ft off the ground for over an hour

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Originally Posted by Pelon1

Just wonder how many of these "problems" could have been resolved easily by having the rope rigged with a contingency block?

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Actually, as much as I prefer having a contingency set up when I find myself in trouble, my experience has been that the better, overall solution is to have your conversion to a lower (from, say, a block) down pat, so that it can be performed in about 30 seconds. yes, that's 30 seconds longer than pulling the ripcord on a contingency, but...

The problem with setting a contingency, every time, is that you get tired of it. No, it does not take real long, but considering the rate of problems is very, very low, even rigging-nazis like me become fed up with it. Since I have the conversion down pat, it also helps because almost anyone can set up the anchor (with a block or a stone knot) - it doesn't have to be me.

If there is a takeaway, it is this: get yourself trained, and practice regularly. And don't let me see ya doin' those mis-guided double rope rappels - a sure formula for making things tough, should problems arise.

Of course, then again, come to think of it, rigging a contingency anchor is the easiest of rescue skills to learn, practice and keep current on - so for many, it WOULD be the best choice, every time, every rappel.

Tom :moses:

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Originally Posted by moab mark

It's cold and snowy so there's not much to do so I was wondering how many of you seasoned or noob canyoneers have had someone get stuck while rappeling and needed assistance? Or any other screw ups while rappeling. If you have had this experience and had to get creative to solve the problem what did you do?

Mark

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Two days before I went and did 'Canyon Rescue' (with Rich/ACA), in Pine Creek, on the last rappel, my buddy John rapped into a snarl and got stuck about 8 feet off the ground. I went down to 'rescue him' (had a separate rope available), but did not have a real good idea of what to do. Good context for taking a Rescue course the next week. It also convinced me to start using a Pirana as my device, so that various rescue operations are easier and faster.

In 110 days of guiding in the last three years, I have had clients get stuck on rappel three times. At ZAC we use autoblocs for self-belay because it provides the best experience (of several available flavors of belay), but even with full control over the parameters, the autoblocs get stuck on occassion. My three stuck clients were all stuck autoblocs, and all kids. (All ages stated are approximate).

A. First was a 7 yr old boy on a short rappel, and I rapped down next to him and helped him free it up, and he completed to the ground. Then I jugged back up (only a 25 foot rappel).

B. Second was a 9 yr old girl (from Scotland!) stuck on a free-hanging rappel about 15 feet off the ground. Again I rapped down and helped her free it up, and we rapped to the ground. Since I had an assistant guide on this trip, I did not have to jug back up (70 foot rappel, all free-hanging).

C. Third was a 13 yr old girl on the same rappel, who was about 10 feet off the ground. In this case, I converted to a lower, with the help of the father who was right next to me, and put her quickly on the ground.

Comments on choice of rescue technique:

My choice is mainly driven by what is going to work best psychologically for the client. Safety is of course job one, but after that, I want the experience for them to be as dignified as possible. Especially with young kids (under 11/12), this is perhaps their first opportunity to be treated as an adult, and do EVERYTHING for themselves. So, we do not rig them up on rappel, we teach them how to rig themselves up, and they do it themselves. If they miss something or forget, we playfully remind them or suggest or re-teach, but we don't do it for them. In the first two cases, the kids are left with the experience of "they did it themselves, under Tom's watchful eye and with a teeny bit of help", rather than "I screwed up and the guide had to rescue me". In the third instance, the 13 yr old girl was uncomfortable hanging in the harness (not enough ice cream in her diet) and it was clear that the problem was an equipment problem, so I thought the quicker solution of putting her on the ground was better. That the dad got to help (pull up on the rope) was a bonus, though that was partly due to the fact that pulling up on the rope was much harder than I expected. The gal only weighed 90 lbs, but the rope crossed the edge at about a 135 degree angle, and there was more friction than I would have guessed.

In my private travels, other than the one time with John, I cannot think of another instance of "stuck on rappel". (knock on wood). thanks be to the Gods - Jupiter Optimus Maximus, the first among equals.

Tom :moses:

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Originally Posted by Pelon1

Just wonder how many of these "problems" could have been resolved easily by having the rope rigged with a contingency block?

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They all could be resolved easier with a contingency if there is enough rope up top. 100' rope 60' rappel?

Tom,

When using a biner how long of a tail are you leaving now a days?

Mark

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Originally Posted by Pelon1

Releasing a rope and lowering someone sure seems easier than setting up another rope and rappelling down and cutting hair or shirt to release someone on a rope? Especially a child.

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A contingency might be useful in some situations, but not necessarily (e.g. awkward body position into swim or other awkward landing and/or rap path). I dunno about the "especially a child" part. Might take little more discipline to be lowered. Besides, this is about pickoffs isn't it? Good skill to practice.

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Originally Posted by hank moon

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Originally Posted by Pelon1

Releasing a rope and lowering someone sure seems easier than setting up another rope and rappelling down and cutting hair or shirt to release someone on a rope? Especially a child.

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A contingency might be useful in some situations, but not necessarily (e.g. awkward body position into swim or other awkward landing and/or rap path). I dunno about the "especially a child" part. Might take little more discipline to be lowered. Besides, this is about pickoffs isn't it? Good skill to practice.

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This is just my 2 cents but I am not a fan of lowering someone. You usually cannot see what is going on , there is no belay in place, and what if when lowering the person gets comfortable and is not holding on with their brake hand and now there hair pulls loose. I would not allow any of my family to be lowered because the rope was not set to the right length so now we have to let out some more. If it is an emergency then yes but not to adjust the length and before I released their anchor I would of had some one else rappel down and see if they could fix the problem.
I can see where the contingency concept has merit in class c canyons. But not with my wife on the end.

Just my 2 cents.

Mark

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

The problem with setting a contingency, every time, is that you get tired of it. No, it does not take real long, but considering the rate of problems is very, very low, even rigging-nazis like me become fed up with it.

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I chuckle when I think of our debate on munter/mule v the figure eight contingency and how easy and fast one is/was v the other...

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

And don't let me see ya doin' those mis-guided double rope rappels - a sure formula for making things tough, should problems arise.

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Hey! I resemble that remark...

Mis-guided. Funny.

When you consider how many more people climb, say, user days in the U.S., and rappel as climbers, and how many get stuck on a double rope rap's, which all climbers use, then, given the number of canyoneers who have experienced someone stuck on rappel...and...run on sentences...

My point is that, sure, I've heard of climbers who get stuck on rappel. Can't recall I've seen it personally, but, I've know folks who've been "stuck" (girth hitched figure eight on the free hanging rappel on the lost arrow spire in the City of Rocks is about the only one I can recall from someone I know personally). But, I've heard of a TON of canyon folks who get stuck on rappel. A few I know.

So, makes me wonder, why the difference in apparent numbers? Maybe its that canyoneering's essence is going down so that's a primary activity. And, most climbers seem to hate rappelling. Maybe that hate of rappelling acts like some kind of "stuck avoidance" or some such? Just postulating...but...since the point of "free climbing" is to not rely on gear, then, to have to rely on gear for a rappel, the senses are heightened in a way that folks pay closer attention? Dunno. Just brainstorming.

Maybe a double rope rappel is inherantly easier to control on rappel, leaving margin for important things like position and hair, etc?

Getting stuck on single OR double ropes would be unpleasant, in the least. Best to be avoided.

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC

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Originally Posted by moab mark

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Originally Posted by hank moon

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Originally Posted by Pelon1

Releasing a rope and lowering someone sure seems easier than setting up another rope and rappelling down and cutting hair or shirt to release someone on a rope? Especially a child.

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A contingency might be useful in some situations, but not necessarily (e.g. awkward body position into swim or other awkward landing and/or rap path). I dunno about the "especially a child" part. Might take little more discipline to be lowered. Besides, this is about pickoffs isn't it? Good skill to practice.

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This is just my 2 cents but I am not a fan of lowering someone. You usually cannot see what is going on , there is no belay in place, and what if when lowering the person gets comfortable and is not holding on with their brake hand and now there hair pulls loose. I would not allow any of my family to be lowered because the rope was not set to the right length so now we have to let out some more. If it is an emergency then yes but not to adjust the length and before I released their anchor I would of had some one else rappel down and see if they could fix the problem.
I can see where the contingency concept has merit in class c canyons. But not with my wife on the end.

Just my 2 cents.

Mark

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Hank
Pick-off's should not be the first line of thought for a person stuck on rappel. It takes considerable time to effect and is a complex maneuver most would not know how to perform.
Your first thought should be a remote rescue, ie--lowering this person from above or if a troublesome lowering area--hauling them back up. Pre-rigging for contingency is a simple method of rigging that should probably be used more, especially by beginners. Or as Tom pointed out, be able to convert a block to a lower, and I'll throw in a haul. It is even more complex to perform these operation's(lower/haul) when double strand rigging is used.
Mark
You have an unfounded fear about lowering, it is simple and safe. It takes a person knowing what they are doing, but that can be anyone. I've taught this to 12 year old kids and watched them lower adult's in a canyon. One must pay attention, but not much more than when they are rappelling and not letting go of a brake hand.
This ties in nicely to your question elsewhere, about tossing down the rope bag. It is alway's prudent to have enough extra rope left up top, that the last person can take care of these simple problem's. If you block the tail of your rope and throw down the bag, you just threw down your ability to correct a potential problem.
I think in the not to distant future, due to the popularity of canyoneering, we are going to start seeing a lot more problem's involving those who fail to take into consideration, before every trip--"What If"

Brian,
This is way off of the original topic but I know nuttin about climbing. When free climbing as they go up they place gear along the way and have somene belaying them on the ground? When they get to the top how do they get the rope set to rappel double? When rappeling back down how is the gear cleaned up? Basically looking for a rudimentary understanding of how it works.

Mark

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Originally Posted by oldno7

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Originally Posted by moab mark

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Originally Posted by hank moon

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Originally Posted by Pelon1

Releasing a rope and lowering someone sure seems easier than setting up another rope and rappelling down and cutting hair or shirt to release someone on a rope? Especially a child.

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A contingency might be useful in some situations, but not necessarily (e.g. awkward body position into swim or other awkward landing and/or rap path). I dunno about the "especially a child" part. Might take little more discipline to be lowered. Besides, this is about pickoffs isn't it? Good skill to practice.

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This is just my 2 cents but I am not a fan of lowering someone. You usually cannot see what is going on , there is no belay in place, and what if when lowering the person gets comfortable and is not holding on with their brake hand and now there hair pulls loose. I would not allow any of my family to be lowered because the rope was not set to the right length so now we have to let out some more. If it is an emergency then yes but not to adjust the length and before I released their anchor I would of had some one else rappel down and see if they could fix the problem.
I can see where the contingency concept has merit in class c canyons. But not with my wife on the end.

Just my 2 cents.

Mark

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Hank
Pick-off's should not be the first line of thought for a person stuck on rappel. It takes considerable time to effect and is a complex maneuver most would not know how to perform.
Your first thought should be a remote rescue, ie--lowering this person from above or if a troublesome lowering area--hauling them back up. Pre-rigging for contingency is a simple method of rigging that should probably be used more, especially by beginners. Or as Tom pointed out, be able to convert a block to a lower, and I'll throw in a haul. It is even more complex to perform these operation's(lower/haul) when double strand rigging is used.
Mark
You have an unfounded fear about lowering, it is simple and safe. It takes a person knowing what they are doing, but that can be anyone. I've taught this to 12 year old kids and watched them lower adult's in a canyon. One must pay attention, but not much more than when they are rappelling and not letting go of a brake hand.
This ties in nicely to your question elsewhere, about tossing down the rope bag. It is alway's prudent to have enough extra rope left up top, that the last person can take care of these simple problem's. If you block the tail of your rope and throw down the bag, you just threw down your ability to correct a potential problem.
I think in the not to distant future, due to the popularity of canyoneering, we are going to start seeing a lot more problem's involving those who fail to take into consideration, before every trip--"What If"

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I don't have a fear of it, I do set up releasable at times. I just don't think it is prudent to toss down some rope, have someone go over the edge then yell up were 20' short and then make adjustments with someone hanging that's all. Why take the chance. I have lowered in a controlled environment. Made nasty rope grooves in the rock. Doesn't having a 2nd rope at the top make it possible to resolve most problems? I never toss the bag and then be in a position of that is all we have.


Every situation is different but maybe this will help explain my thinking. Unless you are hauling a 200' rope most of the rappels I am doing require 2 ropes or some webbing etc involved to make the pull on a single. So if the rope won't double on it's own the contingency probably will not get them to the ground. I try to only haul lengths that will double the longest rappel. With a "what if" 40' rope as you so nicely showed me the benefits of in moab. :2thumbs:

I guess what it comes down to is what are people comfortable with. I feel comfortable with an extra rope up top and the ability to remove the biner and then lower as a last resort.

Mark