Pine creek in the evening
I always do pine creek in the evening these days an an appetizer canyon. Right now since the days are so long, you can drop into pine creek at 5:30 or 6 and get out in time to go up to keyhole and drop into keyhole right as the sunlight goes away and complete keyhole by headlamps.
Never seen any other person in pine creek or keyhole when I've started it at 5pm.
(of course, now that I post this secret...)
Re: Pine creek in the evening
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryebrye
I always do pine creek in the evening these days an an appetizer canyon. Right now since the days are so long, you can drop into pine creek at 5:30 or 6 and get out in time to go up to keyhole and drop into keyhole right as the sunlight goes away and complete keyhole by headlamps.
Never seen any other person in pine creek or keyhole when I've started it at 5pm.
(of course, now that I post this secret...)
Thanks. Your secret is safe with me... and the rest of the Bogley community. (Plan on bottlenecks from now on. :mrgreen: )
Most dont want help, it's true
Yeah, they tend to not want help. You can increase the chances of them accepting your help if you approach it in a non-judgmental and friendly way.
Just start out by saying something like "I don't want to seem like one of those canyoneer know-it-all assholes who tries to tell everyone what to do - but would you mind if I shared with you a few things that might help? Some of it you might already know."
Remember - even if they are making stupid decisions they are most likely still rational people and they are just like you - trying to have fun in a canyon. Once you start telling yourself stories about the people like "Oh, look at these idiots..." or anything along those lines you will probably have a hard time sharing anything worthwhile with them.
There's always a little bit of resentment when you get to a spot in a canyon and you have to wait for another group to finish.
If you remember two key things: 1) You yourself don't know everything there is to know about canyoneering - and are always learning too. 2) They are trying to have fun just like you. 3) They want to learn stuff too.
If it's just a matter of preference or style, and if after offering suggestions they don't want to take them... bite your tongue. Not everyone has to do canyons the way you do canyons in order to survive.
If you notice them using unsafe gear - such as a "not for climbing" 'biner, a hardware store rope, I would point out to them in a polite way that they are using stuff that is increasing their risk of death to a very high point. "It looks to me like you are using a normal hardware store rope. Did it come with anything saying it was rated for a certain load?" Then when they explain that they did in fact buy it at Ace hardware, you tell them "You know, a few years ago they had to rescue some people in Pine Creek because they were using hardware store rope... It's not rated for climbing and it could break at any minute. Just to be safe, why don't you use our ropes..."
Even if you ask as nice as possible, or are as nice as possible, they still might refuse your help.
Now, the scenarios I'm talking about have to do with fining someone in a n00b canyon. If you see someone with hardware store rope and keychain 'biners in Heaps or Imlay, I'd play it differently.
Shane has a story like that on his site: http://climb-utah.com/Zion/germantourists.htm
Re: Most dont want help, it's true
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryebrye
Just start out by saying something like "I don't want to seem like one of those canyoneer know-it-all assholes who tries to tell everyone what to do - but would you mind if I shared with you a few things that might help? Some of it you might already know."
Let me tell you a little story about the know-it-all asshole..... first time I ever climbed Grand Teton I saw this "noob" up near the upper saddle.... this ass clown was dressed in t-shirt, shorts and gym shoes..... so I walk over decked out in my finest mountaineering know-it-all asshole gore-tex clothing to offer the noob some instruction on what real mountaineers wear and what gear they use.... I start to tell the noob he probably doesn't belong on The Grand.....
At that moment this noob in t-shirt and gym shoes turns around and looks at me..... it was Alex Lowe..... who for those that don't know.... Alex was probably my generation's finest all-around mountaineer.
Boy did I fell like a dumbass.....
:asshat: