kolob inquiry

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06-04-2009, 09:47 AM
moab mark

If planning a 2 day trip down oak-kolob-boundary and then out the narrows. Which one is the best? My teenage son and his buddies want to do a overnight bacpack trip. Would be going in late august or early sept. We would have a group of 6-8. 3-4 17 year olds and their dads. They have all been doing Zions since they were 12 year old scouts.
On the zion permit site I do not see Kolob? What is right fork?
Those of you that have seen climb utahs map of oak creek, do you feel the hike in is on lds property the whole way?

Does anyone know the Stake Presidents name for the logandale stake?

Thanks
Mark
06-04-2009, 10:46 AM
trackrunner

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

If planning a 2 day trip down oak-kolob-boundary and then out the narrows. Which one is the best? My teenage son and his buddies want to do a overnight bacpack trip. Would be going in late august or early sept. We would have a group of 6-8. 3-4 17 year olds and their dads.

Haven't done it but heard people rave about Kolob out the narrows. I want to do this option one of these days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

On the zion permit site I do not see Kolob? What is right fork?

Understand Kolob is a special canyon that requires a permit in person. Some argue you may not need a permit if you stay on the north side of the canyon and out of park boundry.

Subway is the Left Fork of North Creek the next big drainage to the southwest is Right Fork of North Creek. Several ways to do and acces the Right Fork. Heard some people like Hammer Head the best.

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/right.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

Zions

http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17392
06-04-2009, 11:03 AM
Brian in SLC

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

If planning a 2 day trip down oak-kolob-boundary and then out the narrows. Which one is the best?

Assuming you all are saavy on the whole technical canyoneering thing (and the judgement that goes along with)...

Best gig in Zion might be full Kolob out the Narrows.

If you can, try to reserve a spot up high in the Narrows, maybe near or at the confluence. Makes for a nice shorter out the next day, and, its a beauty spot, nicely situated to avoid mid-day traffic. If you get out of that camp at a decent hour, you really avoid the Chamerlain Ranch through hikers and don't run into folks coming up until way down by Orderville or so.

Also, as a suggestion, not sure how heavy you pack, but, if you can limit folks overnight gear to 30 lbs or less, that makes a huge difference. No jeans, tents, heavy sleeping bags, etc. The lighter that pack, the better.

Another trick for the full hike, would be to take a mule or two along and give them your ropes for the hike up the MIA. Would really lighten the pack for the hike out. That would give a couple of folks the option to day hike and pick up the car up at Lava Point.

Boundary and the Oak Forks are nice, but, Kolob is at least top three in Zion, and, maybe, for the full canyon system, the finest in Zion.

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC
06-04-2009, 11:13 AM
Iceaxe

Oak Creek is really nice, but it is also really short.... almost Keyhole short for the actual slot. I also though Kolob was pretty short. Kolob was the last of the big 3 in Zion I did (Heaps, Imlay, Kolob) and I was expecting more Heaps/Imlay type length, not Pinecreek type length for the tech section.

But both a really good slots if you get the chance to do them.

I've done both Kolob and Oak, out the narrows and up the MIA. I think out the Narrows is awesome and the MIA sucks. If you have never done the Narrows than that should be the "for sure" way of doing the route.

Bonus: If you read my Kolob route description it details both ways, including which campsites in the narrows will work for you in order of first to last choice.

Kolob Route w/Narrows and MIA Exits
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/kolob2.htm

:cool2:
06-04-2009, 12:03 PM
moab mark

Since kolob is not listed I imagine it only allows 6?
Mark
06-04-2009, 02:58 PM
Scott Card

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

Since kolob is not listed I imagine it only allows 6?
Mark

The actual canyon can fit many people in a day. I felt the canyon yearning for more attention. However, on Zion Park paper only six are allowed. :haha:
06-04-2009, 03:15 PM
moab mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Card

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

Since kolob is not listed I imagine it only allows 6?
Mark

The actual canyon can fit many people in a day. I felt the canyon yearning for more attention. However, on Zion Park paper only six are allowed. :haha:

So if I am reading the zion permit for the narrows right, they have one spot that allows 12? So maybe kolob could support more............ :haha: Eight would be more mules.

Oh what is the best time of the year to due Kolob?

Mark
06-04-2009, 03:30 PM
Scott Card

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Card

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

Since kolob is not listed I imagine it only allows 6?
Mark

The actual canyon can fit many people in a day. I felt the canyon yearning for more attention. However, on Zion Park paper only six are allowed. :haha:

So if I am reading the zion permit for the narrows right, they have one spot that allows 12? So maybe kolob could support more............ :haha: Eight would be more mules.

Oh what is the best time of the year to due Kolob?

Mark

When the flow is 5cfs or less. I know, dumb answer but really, the problem of late has been the water district won't give you a stright answer on the water release from the dam above the canyon. It is their way of intentionally or unintentionally keeping people out of the canyon. They do stop releasing water in the fall so that may be the best time so long as the Water District keeps up their current smoke screen of bad information.
06-05-2009, 10:22 PM
ratagonia

Mark - bad form! Start a new thread when you start a new topic, puh-lease!!!

The Imperial One :moses:

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

If planning a 2 day trip down oak-kolob-boundary and then out the narrows. Which one is the best? My teenage son and his buddies want to do a overnight bacpack trip. Would be going in late august or early sept. We would have a group of 6-8. 3-4 17 year olds and their dads. They have all been doing Zions since they were 12 year old scouts.
On the zion permit site I do not see Kolob? What is right fork?
Those of you that have seen climb utahs map of oak creek, do you feel the hike in is on lds property the whole way?

Does anyone know the Stake Presidents name for the logandale stake?

Thanks
Mark
06-05-2009, 10:30 PM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

If planning a 2 day trip down oak-kolob-boundary and then out the narrows. Which one is the best? My teenage son and his buddies want to do a overnight bacpack trip. Would be going in late august or early sept. We would have a group of 6-8. 3-4 17 year olds and their dads. They have all been doing Zions since they were 12 year old scouts.

On the zion permit site I do not see Kolob? What is right fork?
Those of you that have seen climb utahs map of oak creek, do you feel the hike in is on lds property the whole way?

Thanks
Mark

OK, may I be snide tonight? (but of course, Tom, we expect no less).

"Zions" is a bank. That the kids have been going to the bank for a while is admirable, but I see little that this has to do with their canyoneering skills, other than they can afford decent equipment... :haha:

OK, back on topic...

Since you have not done ANY of these, they would be hard to lead kids down. I would recommend Boundary for a late-summer overnight. It is fairly technical, but would be dry. You would not need substantial wetsuits as you would for Oak or Kolob. It is the shortest total route, which I think would be good for your group.

It has a couple of swims, but only low down in Kolob Canyon. You can do it without wetsuits, but WITH drybags.

The group size limit is 6. As it is throughout the backcountry, other than the Narrows and the Subway; even though it makes little sense, and is based on falsification of the data.

Complaints to:

Superintendent
Zion National Park
Springdale UT 84767

It is also possible to descend the MIA trail without rappels to do an overnight trip out the Narrows. Can the kids rappel with their overnight packs? The first rap in Boundary is long and steep.

Tom
06-06-2009, 05:14 AM
oldno7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

If planning a 2 day trip down oak-kolob-boundary and then out the narrows. Which one is the best? My teenage son and his buddies want to do a overnight bacpack trip. Would be going in late august or early sept. We would have a group of 6-8. 3-4 17 year olds and their dads. They have all been doing Zions since they were 12 year old scouts.

On the zion permit site I do not see Kolob? What is right fork?
Those of you that have seen climb utahs map of oak creek, do you feel the hike in is on lds property the whole way?

Thanks
Mark

The first rap in Boundary is long and steep.

Tom

This is true.... but, not necessary. You can stay in the watercourse instead and it breaks up the long entry rappel nicely. I believe you will still need all of a 200' rope though.(plus pull). I don't know why more people don't use the watercourse and avoid the ugly, scarred, left wall entry.
06-06-2009, 11:44 AM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldno7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

The first rap in Boundary is long and steep.

Tom

This is true.... but, not necessary. You can stay in the watercourse instead and it breaks up the long entry rappel nicely. I believe you will still need all of a 200' rope though.(plus pull). I don't know why more people don't use the watercourse and avoid the ugly, scarred, left wall entry.

Rapping the watercourse works, but pulling the rope through all those opportunites for rope-sticking misadventure may not be a good idea. The straight shot is, at least, a straight shot, and pulls rather easily.

Tom :moses:
06-06-2009, 12:10 PM
moab mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by moab mark

If planning a 2 day trip down oak-kolob-boundary and then out the narrows. Which one is the best? My teenage son and his buddies want to do a overnight bacpack trip. Would be going in late august or early sept. We would have a group of 6-8. 3-4 17 year olds and their dads. They have all been doing Zions since they were 12 year old scouts.

On the zion permit site I do not see Kolob? What is right fork?
Those of you that have seen climb utahs map of oak creek, do you feel the hike in is on lds property the whole way?

Thanks
Mark

OK, may I be snide tonight? (but of course, Tom, we expect no less).

"Zions" is a bank. That the kids have been going to the bank for a while is admirable, but I see little that this has to do with their canyoneering skills, other than they can afford decent equipment... :haha:

OK, back on topic...

Since you have not done ANY of these, they would be hard to lead kids down. I would recommend Boundary for a late-summer overnight. It is fairly technical, but would be dry. You would not need substantial wetsuits as you would for Oak or Kolob. It is the shortest total route, which I think would be good for your group.

It has a couple of swims, but only low down in Kolob Canyon. You can do it without wetsuits, but WITH drybags.

The group size limit is 6. As it is throughout the backcountry, other than the Narrows and the Subway; even though it makes little sense, and is based on falsification of the data.

Complaints to:

Superintendent
Zion National Park
Springdale UT 84767

It is also possible to descend the MIA trail without rappels to do an overnight trip out the Narrows. Can the kids rappel with their overnight packs? The first rap in Boundary is long and steep.

Tom

This is really to bad, looks like I need to find someone to take me down Kolob first. The conversation will go something like this, Honey, the guys on bogley say I cannot take the kids without going first, may I please have a kitchen pass. Works everytime. :2thumbs:

Mark