Printable View
Something else that is kind of a pet-peeve of mine....
Sometimes I hear the "Golden Age" of canyoneering has come and gone. I think it has come, but we are still on the tail end of it. The number of new canyons, new routes and new techniques opened up in the last five years is outstanding. And we still have plenty of places to expand into before it's finished.
Thoughts?
:popcorn:
Agreed. And you are part of the reason for the new stuff. Thanks. There are so many canyons out there I am not sure I will even hit all the "classics" or even the "trade routes" before I am too old. Perhaps this opinion comes from those that are nearer to the "golden age" who are saying the golden age of canyoneering is over cause it is nearing an end for them. Or perhaps it is because of the increasing popularity and lack of utter solitude that they are saying that. Perhaps it is because they think all the good stuff has been discovered? I don't know but I don't think the canyoneering golden age is over or close to it. To me this attitude is kind of like shutting down the patient office cause all the inventions have been invented. I have a feeling that there are plenty of "zero gravity" type canyons out there that will still be stumbled upon.
And for heaven sakes, canyons change. Conditions change. I thought I was bored of Pine Creek until I did it with a pretty good flow of post flash flood water. Then the canyon was new again and exciting. Maybe there will be a push to do swift water canyoneering during the runoff season much like the river rats rush to certain rivers in this dry state during runoff. I used to think canyoneering was only a summer sport 'till I went on freeze fest a couple of years back. I have a feeling that as we mix climbing techniques with canyoneering (including Ice Climbing) and continue to create new canyon specific techniques, the fun and adventure will continue for many years to come.
What can screw it up is to dummy down the canyons or if many more folks start getting killed. Just a couple of off the cuff thoughts.... :popcorn:
i think i agree with you shane.
i'd be curious why some consider the golden age come and gone ... my first thought, which is likely wrong, is that they focus on the anonymity of the "underground." while that is lost to a large degree, i don't think that it exactly defines the "golden age."
i see that the shift to natural anchoring and the subsequent exploration of "new" canyons employing such techniques as part of the 'golden age' ... such an age would appear to be alive and well at this time.
but it could be said that it appears that there is a race to end it quickly ... the golden age surely will be over with the loss of most "non-betaed canyons," as they are published and measured.
No, you just misunderstood. It's actually many of the canyoneers are now passing their Golden Age. Didn't you say you were canyoneering in the 1960's? Dang, you're getting old. :moses:Quote:
Sometimes I hear the "Golden Age" of canyoneering has come and gone.
PS, just kidding.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________
Anyway, where did you hear that comment? SA says now is the golden age, at least he did in 1998, but I never heard it was over.
:lol8: Funny.... actually according the supreme commander of the ACA I began in 1997 because that is when I "discovered" Zion, started a website, began using the term "Canyoneering" and first met Tom Jones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Patterson
Actually, my friends and I were doing Powell slots in the 80's from our boats. We were using ropes but nothing like the stuff we do today. More like handlines and simple rappelling. And potholes were to be avoided at all costs. In 1985 if you had of told me potholes would one day be considered fun I would have considered you crazy.
Actually it was one of SA's pals who told me the Golden Age was finished.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Patterson
I agree we are nearing the end and picking up speed (hope I'm wrong). I think the internet also has a lot to do with this. Information is now passed at light speed, secrets are measured in dog years and skills are increasing exponentially.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan
:popcorn:
Well, ya...according to SA the Golden Age of canyoneering ended when the spotlight shifted from him to you, Tom and others who really encouraged proper ethics, as well as introduced the sport to a much broader audience.
I can't say enough bad things about SA -- he did nothing for the sport. He would publish "sterilized" versions of the now popular "classic" canyons in the Swell. In one of his canyoneering guidebooks, he mentions that The Squeeze is only doable to the very first rappel, and then you have to turn around and return to your car because "it's too dangerous to proceed." Of course, curious climbers and others who got wind of that packed down their bolt kits, and slammed in bolts at every drop. I really believe that the reason why The Squeeze is such a "bolt garden" today is because of his guidebooks claiming that passage was "too dangerous."
Instead of keeping people out of "his" canyons by publishing sterilized versions of canyons, why not take advantage of an awesome opportunity to instruct folks as to the safe alternative to bolts? He had the opportunity to publish the safe and proper way to use natural anchors to descend canyons, but instead he just decided to keep people out of the canyons altogether.
Oh come on.... I'm sure you appreciated the SA exit from the Squeeze. I mean gosh.... you didn't have to get your shoes wet and you got to hike a bunch more up hill stuff in the heat of the day. :haha:
I believe the Emperor told me he first did Knotted Rope because of the SA enter and die statement.
:popcorn:
You bet. I still have my first Swell book, with all places he says "Impassable from this point" highlighted. Moths to the flame. It's also why I placed bolts in there. Heck, if Steve Allen couldn't get down it without bolts, well, we have a solution for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
The golden age - the golden age is ALWAYS just before I got here.
Tom
OK, I have a feeling I know who it is.Quote:
Actually it was one of SA's pals who told me the Golden Age was finished.
For better or worse, about the only way you can sqeeze (no pun intended) any type of technical canyon out of SA's "technical" books is to find any place where he says "it's impossible to go down" or something similar. It just means "the canyon gets good below", or "the best part is ahead". Some have even interpeted it as "you need a bolt kit".Quote:
I believe the Emperor told me he first did Knotted Rope because of the SA enter and die statement.
The "you can't continue down canyon" is why we did Cable and other groups Segars Hole/Squeeze.
Well, several people might have said it . . . an old hand said something very similar to this last fall over on Yahoo, and after I objected, he admitted it was perhaps a little romantic, or something to that effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Patterson
But I think it takes an unusual personality AND someone who has done an uncountable number of canyons in a certain way over many years to feel that life is just a tiny bit worse now that there is a smaller and ever-shrinking number of unknown canyons. By a certain way, I mean that I get the idea that using Google Earth or Terraserver to locate unbeta'd slots is viewed, perhaps ever so slightly, as cheating. It used to take a long time just to find a slot, let alone descend it. Since all of Utah became covered with high-resolution imagery, it doesn't take long at all. I actually think it's more fun to locate "secret" canyons that show up on Tom's Rave but are unidentified than it is to find totally unknown slots. There are LOTS of those feeding Lake Powell, and access is a pain.
I bet for many of us, though, this discussion is irrelevant. Sure, everyone likes new canyons, but do you really care if someone else does them first, and then tells you about them? Do you find yourself disappointed about going to the mountains because someone else has already climbed and written about them? I don't, because they're unknown to me. But then, I've never known anything different, and some of the older folks have, and some people need more adrenaline than others, I guess. I think it was Fred Beckey himself, in his exhaustive Cascade Alpine Guide, that said the golden age of mountaineering there was over. Maybe he was just trying to define his legacy, because he probably did more to explore and publicize the climbing there than anyone. But personally, I love his books and read them eagerly. And if I was born too late to even participate in the nebulous idea of a "golden age," well, them's the breaks.
jb said.... Well, several people might have said it . . . an old hand said something very similar to this last fall over on Yahoo, and after I objected, he admitted it was perhaps a little romantic, or something to that effect.
This was the conversation
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/message/32928
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/message/32944
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/message/32946
jb said...And if I was born too late to even participate in the nebulous idea of a "golden age," well, them's the breaks.
If we look at the supposed Golden Age of Mountaineering, we are talking about the period in the Alps between the ascent of Mt. Blanc and the Matterhorn. They considered it over when the last of the peaks were climbed. If we are to look at canyoneering on the plateau in the same fashion, one could say the Golden Age ended in the day of the Anasazi....or it isn't over yet as some canyons out there probably haven't seen a modern descent or aren't known to the public. I know for me, this is a very exciting time, as I have never poked my head into unknown places at the rate I am now. It sure is my Golden Age. That said, I will admit that my drive to explore is fueled by the reality that there are way more adventure days behind me, than in front of me and also the speed at which the canyons of the plateau are becoming known. The author is rushing me, as he reveals more and more. I am thrilled that my son will be along side me next week in some unknown ones, already scouted and ready to pull the trigger on. I suspect that other folks children may not have that option. No judgment attached. Just where it seems to be going
Ram
Ditto that...my trip report from doing Gravel Canyon is titled..."In search of miscellanious (sp) perils" in honor of the SA guidebook. Canyon was extremely easy by almost any technical canyon standard. Wierd. No bolts required at all (but you can bet we had a bolt kit with us, and a ton of rope).Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Patterson
Too funny...
FWIW...I think ya'll are in the Golden Age right now. SA and friends might have been doing some canyons back a number of years ago, but, since they didn't really share their info, was hardly "golden" and more of a private club.
Look at the developement in techniques, the lingo, the approach to canyon exploration, the different styles, and the casualness that some folks bring for pretty hard stuff to the party, and, makes me think yer in the thick of it. I don't think the sport is exploding, perhaps like some predicted (and/or maybe hoped for). But, folks with a wide variety of talent are out pushing and finding and figuring things out. Plus, golden ages don't seem to last forever, but, they also aren't flash in the pan.
When will the shine be off the apple? Who knows. The golden age in the alps is long gone. Ditto the golden age of climbing in Yosemite Valley. Then comes along a different set of folks to reset some of the old standards and blow the lid off what was thought to be possible. Might be an indicator that this maybe hasn't happened in canyoneering yet.
-Brian in SLC
I get the feeling the sport has had it's explosion.... before 2000 the number of folks doing canyons was much smaller then it is now. Since about 2005 I haven't noticed any big increase happening. Lot's of folks who discovered canyoneering in 2000 have since disappeared and moved on to one of lifes other adventures. Others have stepped up to take their place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
Anyhoo.... It's just my gut feeling that the first big explosion is over with.... doesn't mean we will not get anther one.
It's interesting what will cause a major surge in popularity.... a magazine article, A terrible accident, something in a movie, a news item....
:popcorn:
Maybe this just illustrates a difference among people. For Ram, having a route written up in a book somewhere detracts a little bit from the thrill of doing. That's fine, understandable even. I suspect, though, that most people on this particular forum welcome new info, and feel enabled rather than rushed. Two different outlooks.Quote:
Originally Posted by RAM
Perhaps we're just discussing semantics. Maybe the exploration of new locations is nearer its end than its beginning. But personally, like many others, I'm having more fun than ever, so the term "golden age" is basically meaningless.
Not so. There are many times more canyons that don't have beta than ones that do.Quote:
Maybe the exploration of new locations is nearer its end than its beginning.
I tend to agree with Scott here. There are literally thousands of slot canyons out there. I think its a little presumptuous to assume that we have discovered them all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Patterson