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This I know is a very subjective question, but which do you all feel is more difficult? Heaps or Imlay and why?
I have done Imlay when it was full of water which I hear is much easier than dry. While it was a LONG day it didn't feel overly difficult.
Heaps as of Saturday is full - no potshots, no keepers, no partner-assists.
The hardest part about heaps is its a very long day especially the final 3 raps.
On Saturday there was a 3hr wait at the last rap for two previous groups to go through! (That's what my friend Jeff said tagging along with Trackrunner)
Imlay is great and has a few options of routes too. Imlay has colder water IMO, but it's just as fun as Heaps, although Imlay doesn't end in a 290ft free-rap which is the ultimate ending to a canyon.
Start earlier? the 15 or so trips I've done.....no waiting? Better yet...take a parachute :nod:Quote:
Originally Posted by jman
IOh goodness! Heaps can have some pretty cooooooool water too! Only been in Imlay half dozen or so times so hard to compare? They both can have some real shrinkage factor dependant on conditions for sure! And BTW...it's 275'Quote:
Originally Posted by jman
How long was "Trackrunners" descent C To C? Jus wonderin' if my 9 hrs was easily shattered. I did hear that another group did 8hrs. With Rich, Dan, Shaun and party they shoulda eaisily gotten done in 8 or less?
Six of one.... half a dozen of the other....Quote:
Originally Posted by USofCS
They both have their demons to defeat, water level in Imlay makes a huge difference.... and that final rappel sequence in Heaps is not to be underestimated.
:cool2:
Water Level in Heaps makes a HUGE difference as well.
My friend Jeff was saying his (Shaun's group) started at 3:45am and hit the final 3raps at about 3:30-4pm. Then waited 3 hours for the 2 groups ahead of them to finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo_Beck
True Bo, cold is cold. 40degrees or 35 degrees doesn't make that much a difference.
Random thought: how deep are the potholes in Heaps when it's considered "dry"?
Did it in what I'd heard from the previous week (weeks more likely) party in quite low conditions, and, couldn't reach their drilled holes to ascend out of the potholes. In one, I think I had to drill twice to reach their first hole, it had dropped so much. Mid August, 2002. Still, wasn't "dry" by any stretch as there was gobs of swimming. My notes say, "pothole escape nirvana". The keepers were as deep as dry Imlay, or, thereabouts (have done Imlay in really low conditions when Stevee B went through sans clothes, and, no wetsuits for either of us. I really need to get a slide scanner...those pic's are hilarious).Quote:
Originally Posted by jman
Full Imlay is a bigger deal than the sneak Imlay. My notes from 1999 on the Full Imlay was 40 rappels.
I dunno. Kinda depends on conditions.
I might go with Heaps as harder, but, full Imlay is a long deal.
Interesting to see Buzz, Jared and Ryan's time for the Trifecta. Full Imlay, first rappel to river touchdown in 4:38. Heaps, first rappel to Grotto in 5:10. Heaps after Imlay, so, pretty comparable, time wise. Imlay time from trailhead at West Rim to TOS in 6:32 and Heaps Grotto to Grotto in 7:38. Given the uphill to start Heaps (and add in full Imlay), pretty similar times for both. Hmmm...
I know a couple weekends before Jared, Ryan and Buzz did the Trifecta, they "practised" on Heaps, and, Grotto to Grotto their time was 7 hours. Jared thinks could be done in 5, car-to-car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo_Beck
Those guys are ANIMALS! Buzz came into the store a year or so back and I asked what he was up to? He explained that they just did a quick run up Cowboy Ridge! Couple hours I think is what he said!??:eek2: 12 hours for me! I did East Temple last fall...I wasn't trying for a record (good thing as I tore my rotator cuff part way up) but when I watch Buzz's and Jareds "Run" up East Temple on youtube in under 2 hours, my 11 hour ascent is pretty lame!:haha: I'm still pretty proud of my personal best in Heaps with Steve at 9hrs. a decade or so ago. I'll never be doin' it that fast again!:crazy: I did hike West Temple a few years back with Dave on our first ascent and did it 8hrs. car to car. Not bad for me. I'll be slowin' down now! Injuries (and lack of training) have a way of making this involuntary! Just did South Guardian Angel last friday....12:45....a far cry from my first time of 8hrs!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
Clark, Caleb, and myself did it in 7:45- 8:00 hrs about. We were from the west rim to the grotto, with the purpose of the trip being fun not records. I'll bet jared is right fit focused crew could go from grotto in 5-6 hours. Guess someone better find out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
Forgive me I'm new to this activity...Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey
But isn't the point of all of this is to get out and enjoy the outdoors? You guys are, what appears to be, running passed all of it. :stud:
Sometimes I find it fun to challenge myself in this way. Dang...I've hiked Heaps with a rope a few times now and one increased speed descent never came across as not enjoyable? Hiking across Zion in a day is another fun way to see "The Park" in a day if time is limited! :-) Try it sometime....you may find a thrill in it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Redpb
I had heard that someone had done it in around 8 hours. Now I know who! If you start at the Grotto and end at the Grotto....there's a cold one waiting at the car and no shuttle to retrieve ta-boot! I have no doubt that Jared and crew could get it done really fast! Heck...It took us over 2 hours just to get to the drop-in point at Phantom Valley. They could easily chop off an hour right there! Running thru Phantom would chop another 30 min. Suiting up faster another 20 min. Efficiency on rappels....another 45 Min. Running the alley instead of a lunch break another 45 min. Not floundering at the last series...another 1 hour!.....Heck chop off 4-5 hours on my 9 hours and voila!...a 4-5 hour descent! Would be fun to see and know!Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey
I 'member' packtossing, squirming, hooking, tugging and just downright wearin' myself out on the first descent I had in Heaps! None of the potholes were super deep, yet deep enough that it wasn't easy by any means! I personally found even my first descent of the full Imlay with 2 deep pothole escapes was a much less tiring experience than my first Heaps experience. I have to admit that I was with more experienced folks in Imlay though. Heck..my first trip thru Heaps was with a guy that I had taken thru Mystery the week prior as his first Canyon and the other guy had never even rappeled until the day before our trip thru Heaps :roflol:
Didn't Dean and/or Joe F or some of them guys do it in around 8 too? I dimly recall...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo_Beck
Yeah, "the point of all this"...ha ha. I think speed descents especially can help understand the relative difficulty of a canyon. Its just another measurement/data point. Not to mention, efficient movement, the gear, techniques, that come with it all benefit the gen pop with the trickle down of information.
I think folks that have trained to climb fast, especially on big rock faces (ie, El Cap Nose route), benefit from speed climbing techniques. Canyons would be ditto.
Having done both several times, I consider Heaps to take almost half-again more effort than Imlay. Part of it is ya gotta have your act together at the end of Heaps, while at the end of Imlay you do a short rap then stumble down the Narrows.
Tom
Full Imlay, or, sneak route?Quote:
Originally Posted by ratagonia
I think they're pretty close...but...I'd probably give the head nod to Heaps too. It's not really the final rappel for me. There's a few little risky problem solving things that I think just seem more sleeper to me. That, and I think that crumbly ridge thing is kinda spooky on the now regular approach.
Full Imlay from West Rim TH seems about the same as the Sneak Route from the Canyon Floor. Maybe an extra hour or two on the Full, to the intersection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
Also, Imlay currently has a whole lot of sand in it, and is consistently easier than it was 5 years ago. Heaps is still Heaps, though big floods blowing out a bunch of stump plugs a couple years ago made it somewhat less physical, especially the last narrows near the end.
Tom :moses;