Looking to do a canyon in Zion early/mid Nov - need advice

[nkanarik]

I'm going to be in Las Vegas area early/Mid Nov, and was thinking of doing a canyon or two...not looking for a freeze fest like :)

Any advice?

I was thinking of Behunin.

Thx

[Iceaxe]

Behunin is the biggest waste of a day possible in Zion. If you like long walks in the woods combined with a couple of rappels it's OK at best. If you want real Canyoneering in slot canyons you can just about toss a dart and do better... YMMV

Climb-Utah.com

[oldno7]

dang---rough crowd.

I like Behunin

[nkanarik]

Shane - Any suggestion for a good canyon during this time of the year in the LAS / Zion area?

[Iceaxe]

I'd do Fat Man's Misery long before I'd do Behunin. About the same skill set and time, but probably 100 times better. Misery is one of the best routes in Zion and even better is no permit is required as the tech section is outside the park.

Some other thoughts, it's had to say without knowing your skill set and fitness,
Birch Hollow
Boundary Canyon
Checkerboard Canyon
Das Boot with Subway
Echo Canyon
Englestead Hollow
Heaps Canyon
Imlay Canyon
Keyhole Canyon
Kolob Canyon
Mystery Canyon
Orderville Gulch
Pine Creek Canyon
Rock Canyon
Water Canyon
Yankee Doodle

There is a video of many of these canyons on my YouTube channel if you want to see more.
https://www.youtube.com/user/CanyoneerUT

Unfortunately I don't have a video of Misery. But if anyone would like to donate a video of Misery hit me up sideband.

Fat Man's Misery
93113

[Scott Card]

^^^^^^^ If he doesn't want a Freezefest experience in mid November, about 70% of those drop off the list including Dasboot and Subway. I like Behunin. Misery is also a great canyon but you will get wet and depending on air temps and water level a wetsuit would be highly recommended. I have done Heaps and Kolob at the end of October and beginning of November and brrrrrrrrrr.

[Iceaxe]

Hey... I just gave him a big long list of canyons that are all much better than "the waste of a good day" some call Behunin.

[nkanarik]

Yep...the key was to get suggestion for relevant canyons in Nov (i.e. not going to freeze my ass :))
I've done Birch, Mystery in the past so have them as backup.
Is there any nice ~Dry canyon / Canyon w/o long time in the water I should consider?

[Scott Card]

Yep...the key was to get suggestion for relevant canyons in Nov (i.e. not going to freeze my ass :))
I've done Birch, Mystery in the past so have them as backup.
Is there any nice ~Dry canyon / Canyon w/o long time in the water I should consider?
1. Behunin
2. Englestead if you go UP Orderville rather than head left down canyon into the pools and ultimately into the Narrows.
3. Rock Canyon (short) if you exit before you get into the East Fork of the Virgin.

Englestead is a favorite although I have never gone up canyon. Behunin is fun and I personally think the big walls and scenery are spectacular, particular if you catch the fall leaves. Iceaxe doesn't like big long open rappels. :haha:

[Iceaxe]

Up Englstead blows big time.

Englestead is great when combined with the Orderville waterpark... it's just Behunin on a larger scale with a long boring hike if exiting upstream.

I've never used a wetsuit in Misery as the water in the upper canyon is short or nonexistent and the water in the lower canyon is fed by a warm spring.

Yankee Doodle meets your needs and is actually a really good slot. It can be combined with Boltergiest for a great day. Boltergiest is Behunin on a smaller scale.

Spry meets your needs but I also don't rank it very high, but certainly better tha n Behunin.

Climb-Utah.com

[Iceaxe]

Also... Rock Canyon without hiking the Barracks and out French Canyon is also the waste of a good day.

And Scott's statement would be correct if he said Iceaxe doesn't like big wide open canyons. I like slot canyons, which to me means you can reach out and touch both walls at the same time.

If you like long walks in the woods combined with several long rappels and zero slot canyon you will like Behunin

YMMV

Climb-Utah.com

[oldno7]

https://i.imgflip.com/38ys3w.jpg

[Iceaxe]

Hey, I don't like banging fat chicks either, but some guys enjoy it so I guess whatever floats your boat.

:-)

Climb-Utah.com

[nkanarik]

I'm always amazed how a simple question can trigger such discussion :)
I will consult with my guys and decide on: Behunin, Misery, Englestead/Birch-Narrows, and Mystery (did many times, but never get tired of it)
I will most likely skip: Yankee Doodle / Boltergiest and Spry as I have done does multiple times in the past. Rock canyon - I believe this require a real 4WD car, so will probably skip.

thanks for the advice!

[Iceaxe]

Or you could buy a $50 wetsuit and really expand your menu options.

:cool2:

Something else you might consider is going elsewhere. Zion is not really "in season" in November... but just about everywhere else is just hitting some of their best canyoneering of the year.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD_TJvAti7g

[nkanarik]

Capitol Reef...Kind of a far drive, but I'm listening :)...I'm pretty experienced canyoneer (I've done many of Zion's canyons including Heaps and Imlay, and few in Escelante including Headless Hen). If we end up driving there, we may want to do stay there for two days...I believe Cassidy Arch is the quivalent to Pine Creek. Anything else I should consider (BTW...I'm a large frame (fit) canyoneer 6'0, 220 lbs, 45" chest - so not sure if Pandora's Box is an option for me :))

[Iceaxe]

Where are you driving from?

Capitol Reef, North Wash, The Roost, San Rafael Swell, Moab are all prime in November.

I just posted the Cassidy Arch Canyon to get you thinking. Burro Wash is good. And I've taken guys as big as you through Pandora's Box, but you will have to work for it.

Climb-Utah.com

[nkanarik]

One of the guys will be in Vegas. We were thinking the easiest would be flying there from CA, and drive towards Zion, but this is negotiable :)

[2065toyota]

If you want to do Behunin then just do it. Or pick one off of master Shane's list :haha:

It doesn't really matter where you are, it's really who you are with and enjoying the experience

[ibarro]

Unfortunately I don't have a video of Misery. But if anyone would like to donate a video of Misery hit me up sideband.

Fat Man's Misery
93113

Shane, I did Misery 4 days ago and have a lot of GoPro footage - once I've edited it all together I'll share it with you.

[Iceaxe]

^^^That would be awesome, thanks. For the past several years I've been trying to gather video of all the popular canyons as I think it's a big help if you've never done the route before.

Climb-Utah.com

[nkanarik]

Ok..trip is next weekend, and we settled on Mystery, Behunin, and one other canyon.
Contemplating between Englestead, Lodge, Not Imlay, and and Rock Canyon (haven't done any of them).

Our leading candidates are Englestead and Rock.

As for Rock canyon - We do have two Jeep Wrenglers (rental), but the problem is that according to Climb-UT, Parunuweap Canyon normal flow is <50Cfs, and seems like these days it's flowing at ~55-65 cfs (https://waterdata.usgs.gov/ut/nwis/uv?09404900). I know that for some rivers, it can be a major deal, and for some it doesn't really matter. Was wondering, what would be an acceptable flow.

Thx

[Iceaxe]

I have hiked UP Parunuweap at 60 cfs from Misery to French. Hiking down from Rock to French should not be an issue to experienced canyoneers as there are no major obstacles. I try to be conservative with flow rate recommendations when posting beta, hope that helps.

If you are driving out to Rock Canyon I just added this which is nearby and would be a nice way to round out the day.

Indian Canyon Pictographs
climb-utah.com/Zion/indiancanyon.htm

Climb-Utah.com

[nkanarik]

I have hiked UP Parunuweap at 60 cfs from Misery to French. Hiking down from Rock to French should not be an issue to experienced canyoneers as there are no major obstacles. I try to be conservative with flow rate recommendations when posting beta, hope that helps.

If you are driving out to Rock Canyon I just added this which is nearby and would be a nice way to round out the day.

Indian Canyon Pictographs
climb-utah.com/Zion/indiancanyon.htm

Climb-Utah.com

Yep - this helps!
Thank for the top on Indian Canyon, will visit if time allows.

[ratagonia]

Capitol Reef...Kind of a far drive, but I'm listening :)...I'm pretty experienced canyoneer (I've done many of Zion's canyons including Heaps and Imlay, and few in Escelante including Headless Hen). If we end up driving there, we may want to do stay there for two days...I believe Cassidy Arch is the quivalent to Pine Creek. Anything else I should consider (BTW...I'm a large frame (fit) canyoneer 6'0, 220 lbs, 45" chest - so not sure if Pandora's Box is an option for me :))

Seems like a good time of year to do the Canyons in Vegas... jus' sayin'...

Or Death Valley.

Tom

[ratagonia]

Ok..trip is next weekend, and we settled on Mystery, Behunin, and one other canyon.
Contemplating between Englestead, Lodge, Not Imlay, and and Rock Canyon (haven't done any of them).

Our leading candidates are Englestead and Rock.

As for Rock canyon - We do have two Jeep Wrenglers (rental), but the problem is that according to Climb-UT, Parunuweap Canyon normal flow is <50Cfs, and seems like these days it's flowing at ~55-65 cfs (https://waterdata.usgs.gov/ut/nwis/uv?09404900). I know that for some rivers, it can be a major deal, and for some it doesn't really matter. Was wondering, what would be an acceptable flow.

Thx

That gauge is the one NEAR Springdale. Divide by two and you get the flow in the area.

Rock Canyon is a fine canyon, but there is a LOT of Soft Sand Adventure driving (plus other driving) to get there. If you like driving...

Englestead makes for a long day. Not Imlay is good, assuming no beginners and a 300' rope are in your group. Lodge is a short day but add Mt of the Sun and it is a fullish day (but shorter then EStead).

Tom