Why We Are a Republic, Not a Democracy

[oldno7]

So many fail to understand this basic tenet of our founding





Walter E. Williams | January 19, 2018



Many people whine that using the Electoral College instead of the popular vote and majority rule is undemocratic. I’d say that they are absolutely right. Not deciding who will be the president by majority rule is not democracy.But the Founding Fathers went to great lengths to ensure that we were a republic and not a democracy. In fact, the word democracy does not appear in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, or any other of our founding documents.
Many people whine that using the Electoral College instead of the popular vote and majority rule is undemocratic. I’d say that they are absolutely right. Not deciding who will be the president by majority rule is not democracy.

But the Founding Fathers went to great lengths to ensure that we were a republic and not a democracy. In fact, the word democracy does not appear in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, or any other of our founding documents.

How about a few quotations expressed by the Founders about democracy?

In Federalist Paper No. 10, James Madison wanted to prevent rule by majority faction, saying, “Measures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority.”

John Adams warned in a letter, “Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”

Edmund Randolph said, “That in tracing these evils to their origin, every man had found it in the turbulence and follies of democracy.”

Then-Chief Justice John Marshall observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.”

My question is: Is it ignorance of or contempt for our Constitution that fuels the movement to abolish the Electoral College?


https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/why-we-are-republic-not-democracy?fbclid=IwAR0Et3LNh3N0Uqtn8a8g4xCleI1WpKq Iv7Fi9HCff3MsfMOZilcpGZzAFJE

[rockgremlin]

Why would anybody aspire to a majority rule anyway? The majority of people are idiots.

[Iceaxe]

https://pics.me.me/democracy-two-wolves-and-a-sheep-voting-on-whats-for-44931516.png

[Iceaxe]

Democracy - three guys an a girl voting on who is going to get raped.

https://i.imgflip.com/23x9ms.jpg

[Sombeech]

This only became an issue when Trump won. If he gets the popular vote in 2020, this debate may quiet down.

[Iceaxe]

Abraham Lincoln won the presidential election, but only had 39.8% of the popular vote..... The Democrat's have never been happy since we took away their slaves... So there is that.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Flag_of_the_United_States_%281859%E2%80%931861%29. svg/50px-Flag_of_the_United_States_%281859%E2%80%931861%29. svg.png

[double moo]

Didn't Bush (W) also lose the popular vote to Gore?

Think of the shit mess we would be in if we had really gone Clinton, Gore, Obama, Clinton....

[stefan]

Why We Are a Republic, Not a Democracy


the 'republic' of the US is a type of 'representative democracy.'

[Iceaxe]

the 'republic' of the US is a type of 'representative democracy.'We are a "Democratic Republic" if you want to use the correct term.

Climb-Utah.com

[Iceaxe]

Federal court undercuts progressive efforts to nullify Electoral College, rules electors can vote freely

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/federal-appeals-court-undercuts-progressive-efforts-to-nullify-electoral-college-rules-electors-can-vote-freely

Climb-Utah.com

[twotimer]

the 'republic' of the US is a type of 'representative democracy.'Yeah...of States. Y'know...the 50 little countries that we're comprised of.

That's what it all boils down to. Liberals outside the big cities wouldn't even need to bother voting. The big cities will win it all for them.

San Francisco has a new term for convicted felons..."Justice Involved Person". Soon they'll order landlords to rent to them. I personally don't want people that do these things running the show...or granted indefinite power. A lot of the electorate can be bought, you know. The Dems are making offers as we speak.

[oldno7]

both Shanes and stefans adjectives for our republic I believe are inter changeable.

The FACT remains--we are not nor ever have been a genuine democracy.

Feel free to correct the ignorant, you'll hear it incessantly online and on a tv for those who listen to such.

I've heard several of the democrat pres. candidates call us a democracy, are they that stupid or them just dreaming?

[oldno7]

And to that end---A victory this week.

Federal court undercuts progressive efforts to nullify Electoral College, rules electors can vote freely




In a major blow to state-by-state progressive efforts (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dems-nationwide-effort-to-override-electoral-college-hits-major-stumble-in-nevada) to effectively replace the Electoral College with a nationwide popular vote, a federal appeals court ruled on Tuesday (https://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinions/18/18-1173.pdf) that presidential electors in the Electoral College have the absolute right to vote for presidential candidates of their choice.
Democrats have increasingly sought to erase the Electoral College's influence by promoting state laws that would force electors to vote for the national popular vote winner -- and those laws were now in jeopardy as a result of the court's ruling, legal experts said.
The decision (https://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinions/18/18-1173.pdf), however, also raised the prospect that electors could legally defect at the last minute, and decide the occupant of the White House on their own in dramatic fashion, weeks after Election Day.
The 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals held (https://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinions/18/18-1173.pdf) that the Colorado secretary of state violated the Constitution in 2016 when he removed an elector and nullified his vote because the elector refused to cast his ballot for Democrat Hillary Clinton, who received a plurality of the popular vote both nationally and in Colorado.
The rogue elector was part of an unsuccessful scheme to convince enough members of the Electoral College to unite behind an alternative candidate and deny Donald Trump the presidency.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/federal-appeals-court-undercuts-progressive-efforts-to-nullify-electoral-college-rules-electors-can-vote-freely

[Iceaxe]

This is why we should bring back the Pledge of Allegiance to grade school.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190823/19a87e4d1299ad63ce437efbe597d5ba.jpg

Climb-Utah.com

[Iceaxe]

The US form of government can also be correctly referred to as a "Constitutional Democracy".

FWIW - most people, including most Americans, are surprised to learn the word "Democracy" is not used in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.

Climb-Utah.com

[Rob L]

"...to the Flag"..

But not actually to the United States itself ..

"..to the Republic for which it stands"

et al does not mean any pledge to the USA

Your founding Fathers were quite clever in their wording; something that has been slightly lost in the intervening 250 or so years.

Discuss.

[dougrz]

"...to the Flag"..

But not actually to the United States itself ..

"..to the Republic for which it stands"

et al does not mean any pledge to the USA

Is not "the republic" a direct reference to the USA?

But given the pledge was written in 1892 and not intended for the US only, if at all, having been adapted, I don't think it's as cleverly worded as you might think.

[oldno7]

"...to the Flag"..

But not actually to the United States itself ..

"..to the Republic for which it stands"

et al does not mean any pledge to the USA

Your founding Fathers were quite clever in their wording; something that has been slightly lost in the intervening 250 or so years.

Discuss.

2019-1891=128:ne_nau:

You brits have different math?

It was revised from it's origin to denote the USA as the Republic(clarity), then again to add "one nation under God.",

due to the onset of communism in this country(hmm, sounds like a recurrence)

[Rob L]

2019-1891=128:ne_nau:

You brits have different math?

It's maths if you don't mind, short for mathematics, with an "s" at the end, damn you! :naughty:
Anyway, I thought you were formed in 1776, when you didn't like tea, and then started lulling all those injuns and buffaloes to their deaths?

Mathematics is plural because it is the sum of algebra, triginometry, geometry etc


It was revised from it's origin to denote the USA as the Republic(clarity), then again to add "one nation under God."
One nation under God, but which one, eh? Perhaps that's where a lot of your religious zealots get their calling?

Take care :wave:
Rob

[oldno7]

One nation under God, but which one, eh? Perhaps that's where a lot of your religious zealots get their calling?

Take care :wave:
Rob

Dang--you're too easy to correct.

Injecting "GOD" has been challenged many times here, in the good ol' USA

It has been ruled a non starter by the Supreme court.(go ahead search)

Saying--In God we trust or One nation under God, has no direct association with any one Religion.(zealots included)


Ummm---we were talking about the Pledge of allegiance, not when we Declared independence from a corrupt, "her majesties government"...:haha:

But we do seem to be making a concerted effort to follow you islanders down the moslem,communist rabbit hole.

[Rob L]

I'm just glad I don't have to do your "pledge of allegiance". It's not far off Nationalism from The Third Reich in the 1930's

[Rob L]

I don't mean offence, of course...it's just that you and I are of different cultures.

Rob

[oldno7]

Well we've sent an American over to improve your "royal" family genes/jeans...:naughty:

no offence meant or taken....

I'm glad I don't live on a tiny island....

[Rob L]

Well we've sent an American over to improve your "royal" family genes/jeans...:naughty:

no offence meant or taken....

I'm glad I don't live on a tiny island....
A north american is what I assume you meant :roll:

I'm glad I don't live on a big island. :cool2:

[Iceaxe]

I don't mean offence, of course...it's just that you and I are of different cultures.

Rob
That's because you are subjects = unarmed.

And we are citizens = armed

If we don't like the why things are going shit hits the fan, whie you get to bend over and enjoy the no lube prostrate exam....

:-)

Climb-Utah.com

[oldno7]

Rob

No reason to pm




Visiting the USA


The irony is that I spend so much time in the USA (3 times a year at least) because I love it so much, and the people.

But I could never live there, because of the extreme Nationalism and the ultra-religious nature of your nation.

But I do like to visit. I hope I do not cause offence.

All the best,
Rob








Your idea of nationalism, likely differs from those of us you would deem "nationalist".

A nationalist that I understand is one who takes care of their own people first, then if the wealth is growing, spread it among those who deserve/need it.(pretty simple huh)

Generally after sharing wealth with others, they feel a bit of gratitude and happily repay when they are prosperous.

The current and last 75+ years, the United states has bailed out and virtually helped every nation on earth, only to be despised at a later date.

This condition is what brings us back to--take care of your own first(USA Nationalism)

I'll bet you fall into the same description(Nationalist), knowingly or not.

As far as "ultra religious" could you leave me with an example or 2 as to how our Nation is just that?:ne_nau:

[oldno7]

And---when you think of "our" government giving money to nations that hate us---remember, our government only gives away "our" the US taxpayers money.

They treat it as there personal slush fund to gather favor but it comes from us--the Nationalist, as you refer.

[Rob L]

I'll bet you fall into the same description(Nationalist), knowingly or not.

As far as "ultra religious" could you leave me with an example or 2 as to how our Nation is just that?:ne_nau:


1. TV Evangelism
2. Huge churches only ever used just before lunchtime on a Sunday
3. Cracker Barrel restauraunts heaving with people just after lunchtime on a Sunday
4. Holding ones hand across the heart at every national anthem and teaching the tiny children the same.

But perhaps you are quite right, Oldno7, but I'm a Royalist.
I don't see that my UK "Democratic" government has done me any good. "One Man One Vote"? That's a load of hogwash.

But I have to live in and with the society that the majority votes for.

I doubt that helps, really, but it's just my small opinion.

Rob

[oldno7]

I'm just glad I never have to bow to a member of a "royal" family...

monarchies are so 1700's

But like I said--at least theres new jeans in the royalty(she probably isn't allowed to wear them anymore, though)

Those royal families can be so stifling.

[oldno7]

your right, at least the church of england doesn't do any of that and has no correlation with your government.

https://www1.cbn.com/sites/default/files/styles/video_ratio_16_9/public/canterburycathederalchurchenglandas_hdv.jpg?itok=n _kMrtXm

[oldno7]

2. Huge churches only ever used just before lunchtime on a Sunday
b

you must be so comforted knowing england doesn't do this.

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/09/07/12/canterbury-cathedral.jpg?w968h681

[twotimer]

But I have to live in and with the society that the majority votes for.



RobI think this may highlight the difference between us...you brits take it on the chin and go along with the program. We don't.

You seem to enjoy taking jabs at our country...on a few occasions you've criticized the "flag waving Christians"...yet you want to come here and have a party with these nazi rednecks?

You're a funny guy, Rob.

[twotimer]

But like I said--at least theres new jeans in the royalty(she probably isn't allowed to wear them anymore, though)

Nah...that happened back when William Wallace boinked the Queen.

[uintafly]

I'm just glad I never have to bow to a member of a "royal" family...

monarchies are so 1700's

But like I said--at least theres new jeans in the royalty(she probably isn't allowed to wear them anymore, though)

Those royal families can be so stifling.

There is a joke one could make about the majority of this board being more than willing to to strap on the kneepads if trump whipped it out, but I won't make it.

Hey Rob, I am going to be in London in a few months, where should I stay and what should I do? (other than drink lots of beer)

[oldno7]

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/388563/C57C1B09-3E22-47BD-9FFC-C9243E000C54-1066599.jpg

[oldno7]

https://i.imgur.com/tVnT3qW.gif

[Iceaxe]

There is a joke one could make about the majority of this board being more than willing to to strap on the kneepads if trump whipped it out, but I won't make it.

I'm not going that far, but I would like to shake his hand and say "Thank you Mr. President".

:flag:

[Rob L]

you must be so comforted knowing england doesn't do this.



https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/09/07/12/canterbury-cathedral.jpg?w968h681

It's England with a capital E, if you don't mind.

In answer to your question "you must be so comforted knowing england doesn't do this."

It doesn't any more, and I am not.

But it did,centuries ago (a city must have a Cathedral to be termed such). Most of these structures are old , very old, before the time of you and me and our parents; our grandparents, our great-great ....how far back to I have to go?. (I happen to like them as architectural masterpieces).

[oldno7]

1. TV Evangelism
2. Huge churches only ever used just before lunchtime on a Sunday



ummm---so it's o.k. to be a hypocrite in jolly ol "ENGLAND" but un savory to you in the US?:ne_nau:

Well---alrighty then...

I don't like them anywhere.

And seriously--If you watched TV evangelism while here:roflol:

You and 2 others were the only ones...

[rockgremlin]

And seriously--If you watched TV evangelism while here:roflol:

You and 2 others were the only ones...


This is so true. I know of literally noone who watches that crap. And if it comes up in conversation it is only ever in jest.

[erial]

Visiting the USA

The irony is that I spend so much time in the USA (3 times a year at least) because I love it so much, and the people.

But I could never live there, because of the extreme Nationalism and the ultra-religious nature of your nation.

But I do like to visit. I hope I do not cause offence.

All the best,
Rob


I'm thinking under the right circumstances you could live happily just about anywhere in the USA. I once lived a whole year in Kansas. Wasn't so bad. When I'd get a day off I'd drive over to Joplin and gaze at a tree. Now if I had to live in England I think it would be Midsomer. Such lovely murders there.

[oldno7]

There is a joke one could make about the majority of this board being more than willing to to strap on the kneepads if trump whipped it out,


ummm,No---that would require one to be a liberal democrat and none of us will ever stoop so low.

[Rob L]

ummm---so it's o.k. to be a hypocrite in jolly ol "ENGLAND" but un savory to you in the US?:ne_nau:

Well---alrighty then...

I don't like them anywhere.

And seriously--If you watched TV evangelism while here:roflol:

You and 2 others were the only ones...

It was not, and is not my intention to be a hypocirte, so my apologies if you are offended.

I'll bow out of this discussion.

[twotimer]

Ahhh...no one is offended. I'm not.

We Yanks and you Brits have been going on about stuff like this for ages. I've got a couple Brit friends...they just agree with me when I say things like "America's great" and we get along wonderfully.

[Scott Card]

From my Facebook feed:

"Taco Bell was voted the best Mexican Restaurant in America.

That, folks, is why we have the Electoral College"

True dat! :haha:

[BasinCruiser]

93644

[Sombeech]

93644

Most Americans don't realize it's completely NY and CA running the Impeachment show

[BasinCruiser]

Most Americans don't realize it's completely NY and CA running the Impeachment show

Sadly, a lot of them don’t even realize it (impeachment) is going on.

[2065toyota]

Sadly, a lot of them don’t even realize it (impeachment) is going on.

Or what impeachment even is

[Scott Card]

Or what impeachment even is

"Impeachment" is made up of three parts. "Im" which means "no" and peach which means peach and we all love peaches. Finally there is "ment" which means " the means of doing something". Impeachment means the means of having no peaches. Seriously, why do democrats what to get rid of all the peaches? :crazy:

[BasinCruiser]

94146


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/02/26/across-country-rural-communities-secede-states-why-column/4851817002/

[Iceaxe]

^^^Good read