Taxes: How'd you do?

[uintafly]

I am wondering how the new tax laws affected your bottom lines, if you are comfortable disclosing. Sounds like middle class families with lots of kids are paying a little more than they expected. This being Utah and all, I wonder if that is happening here.

For me, my effective federal tax rate increased from just under 15% to just over 16%.

Not quite apples to apples because in 2017 we did an extensive remodel and I had a shit ton of D.I. receipts that helped me cut down more than normal. 2018 AGI was also 32% higher, so it is hard to say the tax laws were to blame. Too bad Turbotax doesn't show you what it would have been with the old laws. I am guessing within $4,000 either way. Not too earth shattering.

[rockgremlin]

A recent KSL article claims many Utah families got reamed - especially on the State level.

My sister is one of the casualties - they usually always got a large return but now have to pay instead. Haven't done mine yet.

https://www.ksl.com/article/46489450/extremely-shocked-utah-families-hit-hard-paying-more-under-new-tax-law

[Iceaxe]

My sister is one of the casualties - they usually always got a large return but now have to pay instead. Haven't done mine yet.


How large your return is has absolutely nothing to do with how much taxes you pay.....

....did you explain that to your sister? Does she understand that simple fact? Do you understand that math?

About 90% of those complaining about their tax return this year fail to understand they had less money withheld from their paychecks this year and are actually paying less in taxes overall. The Fed warned everyone they had readjusted the tax tables and to watch your withholdings.

If you judge the taxes you pay by the size of your refund you really need an education in basic finance.

It also didn't help our State legislators can't math and failed to adjust Utah tax tables on the state side.

/End Rant

[Iceaxe]

I'm curious to see where my taxes end up as I'm the owner of several S-Corps... it should be interesting...

One thing that will make it a little difficult for a direct comparison is both my kids moved out last spring so we're now empty nesters.

I'll let you know how everything comes out. I'm just getting company returns and stock portfolio 1099s back now so I should be able to do my personal taxes before months end.

It will be interesting....

[Sombeech]

Yeah I've heard complaints about not getting as large of return, but they can't quite figure out it's because they paid LESS during the year.

[rockgremlin]

How large your return is has absolutely nothing to do with how much taxes you pay.....

....did you explain that to your sister? Does she understand that simple fact? Do you understand that math?

About 90% of those complaining about their tax return this year fail to understand they had less money withheld from their paychecks this year and are actually paying less in taxes overall. The Fed warned everyone they had readjusted the tax tables and to watch your withholdings.

If you judge the taxes you pay by the size of your refund your really need an education in basic finance.

It also didn't help our State legislators can't math and failed to adjust Utah tax tables on the state side.

/End Rant


Trust me that would fall on deaf ears. I think that's the crux of the issue though - folks don't realize they paid incrementally less all year so there should be little room to bitch.

[Iceaxe]

Maybe send your sister a meme. People really seem to understand memes.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190216/44e5dd7440994097b2135e68dccd7719.jpg

[uintafly]

If you get a big return, congrats! You just gave the government an interest free loan. I wonder if they’d do the same for you?

What is a little scary is how many people count on their return just to survive.

[BruteForce]

I haven't seen a tax return in almost 20 years. I'm at a ~+40% tax rate and even though I hemorrhage tax, I still end up paying a mid-level's worth salary in extra tax EVERY YEAR, let alone get audited every 2 years!

[Rob L]

Shirley in the USA you only pay tax on net income (be it business or personal tax). From most of the above posts, it sounds like you:
A. Begrudge paying tax
B. Expect a refund (tax "return") every year.

Here in the UK I pay corporation (company) tax on the profits that my company makes, and personal tax on what I personally make. I might employ a good accountant to keep those taxes as low as I am allowed, but I pay the taxes due, and to be honest, I don't begrudge paying my share.

Does it operate differently in the USA?

[rockgremlin]

^^^ Here's how it operates in the U.S:

1. If you have a large family, claim Zero Dependents on all your income, basically telling the federal government that you want to give them extra money throughout the year.

2. Upon filing taxes the following year, list all of your dependents and expect a HUGE tax return.

3A. If that HUGE return comes, throw a party and plan a family trip. This is gonna be great!

3B. If your return isn't very big, or you end up having to pay, log onto the internets and complain about Trump. It's HIS fault your family can't go to Cancun this year. :roll:

[Iceaxe]

It's like this in the US. We'll use simple numbers to make the math easy.

Say you make $60,000 a year and you owe 20% in Federal taxes. That means at years end you owe $12,000 in Federal taxes.

Every paycheck the government withholds a portion of your paycheck, an amount that you choose. Ideally you will have $1000 a month withheld from your pay and then at the end of year your tax bill will be zero.

But many in the US have a little extra withheld from their pay to insure they get a refund. They use it as sort of a "zero interest savings account". And since the tax code was readjusted this year many are finding their "zero interest savings account" has no money at years end.

[dougrz]

And if we could get withholding eliminated, people would better understand the cost of government if they faced a real, single, large tax payment. Lot of lost opportunity with the Repub Congress of '17 and '18 to expose this fraudulent govt system we have, and this is one example. We're very likely to never see Repubs holding all three again.

[Iceaxe]

What amazes me is there was no Federal income taxes until 1913 and we did just fine.

[rockgremlin]

What amazes me is there was no Federal income taxes until 1913 and we did just fine.

I'm guessing we didn't fund the military nearly as aggressively back then as we do now. That's one big difference.

[dougrz]

I'm guessing we didn't fund the military nearly as aggressively back then as we do now. That's one big difference.There were essentially no federal govt "programs" back then. FDR ushered all that in in the 1930s.

[BasinCruiser]

You know you did great on taxes when your refund is enough that you can quit your min wage job.

92068


92069

[rockgremlin]

^^^WTF?!?!

How do people not see beyond a one-time lump sum payment? Good hell...:roll: :roll:

[devo_stevo]

If those are real, it's amazing. I know there are a lot of rather short sighted people in the construction industry though, so I guess it makes sense that fast food would have the same problem.

Too much "Thank God it's Friday! Oh God it's Monday!" going on around there.

[oldno7]

I don't care about Monday or Friday, I just like "Hump Day"

[Iceaxe]

So my 2018 taxes are done....

I'll end up paying 2.65% more in 2018 then I did in 2017.... but.... That's not really a fair direct comparison as my income increased 162% this year, thanks to the booming economy, and I lost 2 dependants as both my daughters moved out on their own last spring.

And for those that don't math and base how they did on their taxes by the size of their year end refund... my refund this year is almost identical to last year.

Honestly from some rough calculations if my income and dependants had of remained equal between 2017 and 2018 it appears I would have come out slightly ahead under the new tax program.

:popcorn:

[rockgremlin]

I paid less in taxes last year (more money in my pocket incrementally throughout the year), plus still got a decent refund. Granted, my return for 2018 was less than half of what it was in 2017, but I'm not complaining since I was taxed at a lower rate.

Got a slight State refund as well.

[twotimer]

My income varies from year to year, depending on how much I want to work. The taxes I paid for '18 were pretty much in line with '17. Not increased, that's for sure.

I paint houses for a living and work for people of middle class to upper class income levels. The folks that can write a check for several thousand dollars without batting an eye. If Trump's tax cuts benefit the "rich"...well that's fine with me. Sign that check, honey.

[Iceaxe]

I paint houses for a living and work for people of middle class to upper class income levels. The folks that can write a check for several thousand dollars without batting an eye. If Trump's tax cuts benefit the "rich"...well that's fine with me. Sign that check, honey.

That's called trickle down economics and the Democrats claim it doesn't work and there is no such thing....

FWIW... my businesses do extremely well making money from trickle down economics, so I understand where you're coming from.

[devo_stevo]

works for me too. I am a steel retailer and when rich people or companies build new buildings or add on to existing ones that’s when I get paid. If there were no people willing to do that I’d have to get a job working for someone else again. I like rich people.

[rockgremlin]

Concerning trickle down economics:

In 1932 Will Rogers wrote a brief snippet about this concept after the election where Herbert Hoover lost to FDR:

"This election was lost four and six years ago, not this year. They [Republicans] didn’t start thinking of the old common fellow till just as they started out on the election tour. The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover was an engineer. He knew that water trickles down. Put it uphill and let it go and it will reach the driest little spot. But he didn’t know that money trickled up. Give it to the people at the bottom and the people at the top will have it before night, anyhow. But it will at least have passed through the poor fellow's hands. They saved the big banks, but the little ones went up the flue."


Rogers was basically trying to make the point that in economics, it's actually trickle-UP that is most effective.

[devo_stevo]

92100

[twotimer]

Concerning trickle down economics:

In 1932 Will Rogers wrote a brief snippet about this concept after the election where Herbert Hoover lost to FDR:

"This election was lost four and six years ago, not this year. They [Republicans] didn’t start thinking of the old common fellow till just as they started out on the election tour. The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover was an engineer. He knew that water trickles down. Put it uphill and let it go and it will reach the driest little spot. But he didn’t know that money trickled up. Give it to the people at the bottom and the people at the top will have it before night, anyhow. But it will at least have passed through the poor fellow's hands. They saved the big banks, but the little ones went up the flue."


Rogers was basically trying to make the point that in economics, it's actually trickle-UP that is most effective.




Things were entirely different back then. I don't think a "middle class" really existed...and didn't, until after WWll.

Also, what is the definition of "rich"? Compared to some chump on a street corner with a cardboard sign every single one of us here is loaded.

I think the trick is to stay as far away from becoming that dude as possible. And if that means working at someone's "mansion" while they throw $100 bills at me, then that suits me just fine.

[Iceaxe]

Math, what's it good for....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190309/a0408177d4e3fe51dc1bed8aa3767533.jpg

[Iceaxe]

With tax day fast approaching...

I think the IRS should figure out your taxes for you. They have all the data and the rules at the end of the year so it would be easy for them to do.

We should do away with all withholding, and instead you get a bill on February 20th for the past year to pay your taxes in a lump sum. Once the people took an annual hit for taxes every year, the IRS would be burned down and Congress hanged.

When people figure out how much they are really paying a year, BAM, the revolt would be immediate the next day. It will never happen, but it would be great to have to pay it all in one check once a year of ALL federal taxes. This way you put the dick in all the way dry, rather than a millimeter at a time every pay day.

[devo_stevo]

With tax day fast approaching...

I think the IRS should figure out your taxes for you. They have all the data and the rules at the end of the year so it would be easy for them to do.

We should do away with all withholding, and instead you get a bill on February 20th for the past year to pay your taxes in a lump sum. Once the people took an annual hit for taxes every year, the IRS would be burned down and Congress hanged.

When people figure out how much they are really paying a year, BAM, the revolt would be immediate the next day. It will never happen, but it would be great to have to pay it all in one check once a year of ALL federal taxes. This way you put the dick in all the way dry, rather than a millimeter at a time every pay day.
Ever since I started working for myself and have had to send in quarterly payments, I've thought the same thing. If we all got an invoice at the end of the year for the taxes due, you can bet things would get changed really quick. Either that or everyone in Washington would get fired the next time elections came around.

[uintafly]

With tax day fast approaching...

I think the IRS should figure out your taxes for you. They have all the data and the rules at the end of the year so it would be easy for them to do.

We should do away with all withholding, and instead you get a bill on February 20th for the past year to pay your taxes in a lump sum. Once the people took an annual hit for taxes every year, the IRS would be burned down and Congress hanged.

When people figure out how much they are really paying a year, BAM, the revolt would be immediate the next day. It will never happen, but it would be great to have to pay it all in one check once a year of ALL federal taxes. This way you put the dick in all the way dry, rather than a millimeter at a time every pay day.

Both the GOP and the Dems are working on making permanent the ban on the IRS creating their own software for people to file directly with the IRS. Think how nice it would be if instead of paying Intuit to use their software, we just did it directly with the IRS. It would have the added benefit of the IRS already having 90% of the information already. But sadly, their corporate overlords won't allow it.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/congress-to-ban-the-irs-from-making-tax-filing-free-and-easy.html

[BasinCruiser]

I don’t get why this concept is so hard for people. They have been programmed with hard coding so badly that they have lost the ability to do simple logic.

In in response to this meme:

92480

this joker replied seriously in this manner:

92481

Is there seriously no hope of reason and sensibility with these people?

[Scott Card]

So on the night of April 15, I had a lot of fun. I was paying my taxes with a metered envelopment at about 10:00 p.m. I metered the envelopes because I knew the post office was closed and I was past the last pick-up time. When I arrived at the post office, there was a line of people that went out the door. They were all waiting for the self-serve postage machine. They were all going to send their taxes via certified mail (about $5.00 to send a 50-75 cent envelope) and were doing so because of a sign on the door that stated that certified mail was pretty well the only way to get a date on the envelope to satisfy the IRS that you filed on time. Well, I got an idea. I quickly drove to my office and ran about 60 envelopes through my postage meter of varying amounts and drove back to the post office. I asked if anyone wanted a prepaid metered (dated) envelope. You should have seen the response. First, people were wondering who the heck I was and were skeptical. Then after a short explanation, I quickly gave out about 30 envelopes to those in line. They were so happy and relived. The look of relief on many faces was noticeable. I stayed until about 12:15 a.m. having the time of my life.

My two favorite experiences were dealing with one person who didn't understand mail and two late comers who also didn't understand the U.S. mail system. The first person was a gal who went to the self serve machine at about 2 minutes to midnight and didn't get the certified date stamped sticker until about two minutes after midnight with "April 16" on it. She would not listen to me and thought I was crazy. ("Feel the Bern" supporter?) She insisted on using the improperly dated and certified sticker instead of my April 15th envelopes because she needed to "track the envelope". Huh??? I told her tracking the envelope was not what mattered. Oh well, pay 10 times what you needed to send in your taxes on the wrong date and pay your tax penalty so you can watch your little tracker app. Whatever. My other favorite experience happened when I was in my car about to drive off, two cars pulled in the parking lot at about 12:10 a.m. Both people looked completely frazzled. Both thought that if they just put the envelopes in the box close to midnight they would be okay. I assured them they would not be okay and gave them each two envelopes. They were so happy. It was worth the $40 or $50 I spent. I had so much fun I may do it again next year.

[twotimer]

She would not listen to me and thought I was crazy. ("Feel the Bern" supporter?) She insisted on using the improperly dated and certified sticker instead of my April 15th envelopes because she needed to "track the envelope". Huh??? I told her tracking the envelope was not what mattered. Oh well, pay 10 times what you needed to send in your taxes on the wrong date and pay your tax penalty so you can watch your little tracker app. Whatever. That is the very definition of the phrase...

"Looking a gift horse right square in the mouth".

Love you're Bernie analogy...let's operate contrary to common sense! I insist!

What you did was pretty cool...I've walked into a few chaotic situations and busted out the rally flag, too. It feels good, like putting a baby bird back in its nest.

[Iceaxe]

I'm always amazed that people wait until the last possible minute to do their taxes. It would cause me way to many sleepless nights. I like having them done and if I owe I'll wait until about April 10th to mail them just so I have a little breathing room if there is an issue.

[uintafly]

I'm always amazed that people wait until the last possible minute to do their taxes. It would cause me way to many sleepless nights. I like having them done and if I owe I'll wait until about April 10th to mail them just so I have a little breathing room if there is an issue.

This is what I did. I had them done several months ago, but owed the state a few hundred dollars. Dropped it off a week ago and waited in no line and had no stress. But I am nowhere near as nice as Scott is.

[Scott Card]

The reason I was there on the last day at 10:00 p.m. was just to pay my estimated taxes, and yes, I waited to the last minute. No need for Uncle Sam to have my money early.