Medical Marijuana in Utah

[accadacca]

Looks like it’s going to pass.

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[rockgremlin]

I read that the results were heavily in favor in Salt Lake and Weber counties, but heavily opposed in Davis and Utah counties. No surprise there ~ with the heavy LDS population and the diligent efforts the church invested in last minute campaigning against it.

I was questioning why the church was so diligent at campaigning at the last second even after all parties had to agreed to hold off on campaigning either for or against after that compromise with the Gov was struck. :ne_nau:

Guess it doesn't really matter now.

[uintafly]

I read that the results were heavily in favor in Salt Lake and Weber counties, but heavily opposed in Davis and Utah counties. No surprise there ~ with the heavy LDS population and the diligent efforts the church invested in last minute campaigning against it.

I was questioning why the church was so diligent at campaigning at the last second even after all parties had to agreed to hold off on campaigning either for or against after that compromise with the Gov was struck. :ne_nau:

Guess it doesn't really matter now.

Because if it failed there is no chance in hell they would have actually done anything about it. This forces their hand.

[DirkHammergate]

Because if it failed there is no chance in hell they would have actually done anything about it. This forces their hand.

"I know this Church is True, Joseph Smith was a prophet and it's better to stick with Prozac, Xanax and Opiods over something that comes from the earth."

[Sombeech]

And just like that, the Mormons weren't as oppressively controlling as people said they were.

[uintafly]

And just like that, the Mormons weren't as oppressively controlling as people said they were.

lol. You really are interested in how people view the Mormons. Is there a thread on here where you haven't brought up the poor picked on Mormons?

[Sombeech]

lol. You really are interested in how people view the Mormons. Is there a thread on here where you haven't brought up the poor picked on Mormons?

Funny, I only reply to prior comments about the Mormons.

Are you conflicted now that it passed, but the Mormons are supposed to be super controlling?

What now?

[uintafly]

Funny, I only reply to prior comments about the Mormons.

Are you conflicted now that it passed, but the Mormons are supposed to be super controlling?

What now?

lol, yes I am super conflicted. What will I ever do?

For some reason, though I don't have any ill will toward the Mormon Church or Mormons in general, you still love to play the "he's picking on me" card. Oh and the church can still be considered "super controlling" and the prop can pass. I would bet if you looked at the stats, had only Mormons voted, it would have went down in flames. And the church did come out loud and often in opposition, so to somehow try to spin this as the church isn't controlling is a bit of a stretch.

[DirkHammergate]

lol. You really are interested in how people view the Mormons. Is there a thread on here where you haven't brought up the poor picked on Mormons?

I am Mormon.... just a terrible one. I like to pick on them.

[rockgremlin]

lAnd the church did come out loud and often in opposition, so to somehow try to spin this as the church isn't controlling is a bit of a stretch.


This is exactly my point. The church breached the "silent agreement" that all parties agreed to by coming out in the eleventh hour in strong opposition to Prop 2 here:

https://www.ksl.com/article/46419486/church-leader-sees-confusion-over-medical-marijuana-initiative-urges-utahns-to-vote-no


That one was a bit of a head-scratcher...everybody else agreed to maintain silence as per the agreements laid out in the compromise with the Governor. Why did the church feel they needed to renege on that in a last ditch message in opposition? It just looks desperate.

[Sombeech]

So, is it not a valid point that this proposition passed with ease, despite all of the talk of the monopolistic oppression from the LDS Church?

I thought it was a valid point. 3 mentions of the church in opposition and I'm the one that gets called out for my 1 comment? OK I guess, I know it's fun to complain about the super oppressive nazi Mormon church, but you shouldn't get so upset that once in a while somebody might have the balls to give a proper rebuttal with facts.

If Prop 2 passed in Utah, all of your comments about the super controlling Mormon church are complete bullshit.

I don't care either way, but whenever I read something posted here that doesn't make sense, I like to give some educational feedback.

Cheers.

[Sombeech]

Like it never happenedhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181107/0ade6584ad00740dc9d397eebe5eab0d.jpg

[DirkHammergate]

If Prop 2 passed in Utah, all of your comments about the super controlling Mormon church are complete bullshit.

That's not necessarily true, a majority of Mormon's were in favor of Prop 2 before the Church came out against it. It went from roughly 77% down to 55% in approval once their opposition was voiced. Surely many Mormon's went against the Church's opposition and voted for it. That doesn't mean the Church isn't super controlling, just possibly losing its control on membership.

[rockgremlin]

Just because Prop 2 passed doesn't mean the church isn't controlling.

As I stated earlier, and which I'll repeat here, the church broke a previously agreed to silence to aggressively campaign against Prop 2 in the eleventh hour, just days before the election. Why would they do that? Nobody else had a problem holding their tongue.

As Uintah stated, if it were up to strictly the church members the Prop would have failed miserably. Heck, it failed miserably in Utah and Davis counties -- what does that tell you?

[Iceaxe]

The LDS church came out at the last minute against marijuana in hope of torpedoing the idea completely... plain and simple.

[Sombeech]

but hey if I suggest the other side of the argument, @uintafly (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=19157) is gonna call me out on it.

4 arguments countering the LDS church's stance, and 1 stating the LDS isn't as controlling as accused, and I'm the one called out on it. Hilarious.

[Scott Card]

Funny, I've never felt controlled. And I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[rockgremlin]

No what's hilarious is that you can't see the plain truth even when it's dangled in front of you 4 different ways. Sometimes ya gotta just embrace that the other side MIGHT just have a point.

The LDS church controls politics here in Utah. So what? Everybody knows that. If you argue differently you've gotta be deluded.

I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. The church was here first, I think there's a certain expectation that they are going to maintain a controlling voice in all affairs here. Quit assigning the negative label. I'm not saying it's bad, but it definitely does exist.

[rockgremlin]

Funny, I've never felt controlled. And I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.


That's because you don't drink alcohol, and aren't a cancer patient on chemo. If you were either of those you might have a different opinion.

[Scott Card]

LOL.... the Church issues opinions and statements. People choose to follow or not.

As for me Rock, I embrace "the other side" on a daily basis. I am an attorney who considers both sides of arguments every working day of my life. If I didn't, I would have been ousted from my profession long ago.

[Scott Card]

Rock, you forget that I represent a CBD company. My daughter has chronic pain. I am a fan of CBD, not THC. Oh, trust me. I have been all over this issue. I stated that in another thread.

[uintafly]

That's because you don't drink alcohol, and aren't a cancer patient on chemo. If you were either of those you might have a different opinion.

Or had a gay child.

Sombeech, I am too lazy to search, but you often bring up LDS complaints as a complete non sequitur. One example off the top of my head was last week when I called out the fake craigslist ad looking for Obama supporters. It's not a big deal, you just happen to be real sensitive, lots of people are.

[Iceaxe]

LOL.... the Church issues opinions and statements. People choose to follow or not.


This is true.... but... we both know a large number of people that take any opinion or statement the LDS church gives as meaning it came directly from God, to the prophet, to them....

The other side of that is the LDS church also teaches free agency.... but for better or worse a large number of people, both in and out of the church, fail to think for themselves and would rather be told what to think.

Anyhoo... bottom line.... the LDS church has a massive influence in Utah and on Utah politics. Anyone that denies that fact is fooling themselves.

YMMV

[Scott Card]

I agree the church has a large political influence in this state when it issues statements. The word "controlling" doesn't sit well with me. That word, frankly goes against everything I know and love about the Church, of which I am a member.

[Sombeech]

Sombeech, I am too lazy to search, but you often bring up LDS complaints as a complete non sequitur.

It sounds like you can't counter the points I make so you just mention that I make them often.

I'm ok with that, but I'd rather hear your opposing point of view.

[Iceaxe]

Here is the road map to how Prop 2 will be torpedoed...

Here’s how and why the Legislature could change Proposition 2 — even if it passes
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=46422829&nid=968

Climb-Utah.com

[devo_stevo]

Yes, the church obviously has a major part to play in politics in Utah. I also agree with Scott that I hate the idea of them controlling what I do and think. If I'm honest, it bothered me to receive an email from them telling me how I should vote. That was a line that I didn't think they'd cross, but they did. It felt weird to me.

[rockgremlin]

To all those who voted against Prop 2 -- please read the following question with an open mind - I'm sincerely not trying to be obnoxious or snarky:


What is so "bad" about recreational MJ? Most folks who voted to axe Prop 2 claimed that "it would open the door to recreational use."

So? Why is that so bad?

You folks do know that MJ is everywhere right now, right? I'll bet there are at least a half dozen folks who live within a mile radius of your house who possess (or have possessed) MJ and have probably even lit up once or twice recently. IT IS EVERYWHERE.

Prop 2 isn't proposing to import MJ into the State of Utah once it has passed -- MJ is already here in massive quantities. People are just so deep in denial they refuse to acknowledge that. So, since it's already here, and it's so ubiquitous, why not profit from it? Because the only folks who profit from it when it's illegal are drug dealers and Mexican cartels. Is that what you'd prefer? To pad the pockets of the drug cartels?

[DirkHammergate]

To all those who voted against Prop 2 -- please read the following question with an open mind - I'm sincerely not trying to be obnoxious or snarky:


What is so "bad" about recreational MJ? Most folks who voted to axe Prop 2 claimed that "it would open the door to recreational use."

So? Why is that so bad?

You folks do know that MJ is everywhere right now, right? I'll bet there are at least a half dozen folks who live within a mile radius of your house who possess (or have possessed) MJ and have probably even lit up once or twice recently. IT IS EVERYWHERE.

Prop 2 isn't proposing to import MJ into the State of Utah once it has passed -- MJ is already here in massive quantities. People are just so deep in denial they refuse to acknowledge that. So, since it's already here, and it's so ubiquitous, why not profit from it? Because the only folks who profit from it when it's illegal are drug dealers and Mexican cartels. Is that what you'd prefer? To pad the pockets of the drug cartels?

^^^^

My 98 year old devout Mormon Grandmother believes in legalization cause she knows it's everywhere and controlling, dispensing and advising people on variety is far more safe and we, as a State, reap the financial benefit. She passed about 8 years ago and couldn't see so she'd just listen to talk radio and was very informed on issues. She was most adamant about legalization feeling it would solve a lot of the ripple effect social problems of MJ being illegal.

[uintafly]

It sounds like you can't counter the points I make so you just mention that I make them often.

I'm ok with that, but I'd rather hear your opposing point of view.

What opposing point of view? That the LDS church is controlling? Maybe you tell me how an institution that tells its members the following couldn't be considered controlling: how to dress, what to eat and drink, how many and where they can get piercings and tattoos, how to vote, what gender you can bang, whether kids can masturbate, have the byu honor code, what you can do on Sunday, etc. etc. etc.

I'm probably coming off as a bit of a dick, though I am not trying to. I don't personally believe in the theology and the culture and rules are certainly not for me, but if it's for others, great. Do what makes you happy. But I don't see how anyone could say the LDS church(and a whole hell of a lot of other religions) isn't controlling.

[uintafly]

To all those who voted against Prop 2 -- please read the following question with an open mind - I'm sincerely not trying to be obnoxious or snarky:


What is so "bad" about recreational MJ? Most folks who voted to axe Prop 2 claimed that "it would open the door to recreational use."

So? Why is that so bad?

You folks do know that MJ is everywhere right now, right? I'll bet there are at least a half dozen folks who live within a mile radius of your house who possess (or have possessed) MJ and have probably even lit up once or twice recently. IT IS EVERYWHERE.

Prop 2 isn't proposing to import MJ into the State of Utah once it has passed -- MJ is already here in massive quantities. People are just so deep in denial they refuse to acknowledge that. So, since it's already here, and it's so ubiquitous, why not profit from it? Because the only folks who profit from it when it's illegal are drug dealers and Mexican cartels. Is that what you'd prefer? To pad the pockets of the drug cartels?


X2.
Also, I think many people would be truly shocked to learn how many educated, highly successful people that you know, occasionally partake. I prefer a few beers personally and am not a fan of playing legal roulette with pot being illegal, but off the top of my head I personally know of business owners, engineers, lawyers, architects, financial planners, r/e agents and a Dr among others that smoke. I do know some real losers that smoke too, but that goes with pretty much everything.

[Sombeech]

Yes, the church obviously has a major part to play in politics in Utah. I also agree with Scott that I hate the idea of them controlling what I do and think. If I'm honest, it bothered me to receive an email from them telling me how I should vote. That was a line that I didn't think they'd cross, but they did. It felt weird to me.

That's odd, I never received an email. Who did it come from? What did it say?

[qedcook]

lol. You really are interested in how people view the Mormons. Is there a thread on here where you haven't brought up the poor picked on Mormons?

What a silly critique!!! Sombeech expresses a valid opinion in what he thinks is true, and he gets mocked for it?? uintafly must be a liberal. Name calling is the argument of the child/liberal. But this is the internet. There are trolls and liberal "logic" everywhere you look. If you're going to be a part of the psuedo-public arena, you've got to be able to handle criticism. I'm just surprised how silly this particular criticism is.

[Sombeech]

What a silly critique!!! Sombeech expresses a valid opinion in what he thinks is true, and he gets mocked for it?? uintafly must be a liberal. Name calling is the argument of the child/liberal. But this is the internet. There are trolls and liberal "logic" everywhere you look. If you're going to be a part of the psuedo-public arena, you've got to be able to handle criticism. I'm just surprised how silly this particular criticism is.
Nah, he must be getting irritated that there's somebody sticking up for the Mormons. It would piss me off too if I hated them.

[devo_stevo]

That's odd, I never received an email. Who did it come from? What did it say?
It came from the church. Written by the president of the Utah area. It basically said that they're cool with the idea of medical marijuana, but not the bill as proposed. I'm cool with that statement. What I didn't really like was the line where they said in bold type "As a member of the coalition, we urge voters of Utah to vote NO on Proposition 2."

Here's the email. I received it on 8-23.



Dear Brothers and Sisters,
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In November, Proposition 2, an initiative which would legalize the sale and use of marijuana, will appear on the ballot. Its proponents assert that it will make medical marijuana available to those suffering with debilitating pain and other infirmities. However, in truth it goes much further, creating a serious threat to health and public safety, especially for our youth and young adults, by making marijuana generally available with few controls.
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The Church joins a coalition of medical experts, public officials, and community stakeholders in calling for a safe and compassionate approach to providing medical marijuana to those in need. The Church does not object to the medicinal use of marijuana, if doctor prescribed, in dosage form, through a licensed pharmacy.
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As a member of the coalition, we urge voters of Utah to vote NO on Proposition 2, and join us in a call to state elected officials to promptly work with medical experts, patients, and community leaders to find a solution that will work for all Utahns, without the harmful effects that will come to pass if Proposition 2 becomes law.
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For more information on Proposition 2 please refer to this legal analysis (http://click.email.ldschurch.org/?qs=4772a10af4fc330d0b3ca12a44edd8989ba35fb1e209e1 15e6856b8cccfc9ecc8e20a3f26e0807305b671ba2dd15d6db 89981e8c111722e1) prepared for the Church by Kirton McConkie.
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Elder Craig C. Christensen
President, Utah Area



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Statement on Proposition 2

Medical Marijuana Initiative
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Medical marijuana is an issue that has generated strong emotions and opinions among proponents and opponents alike. On one hand, initiatives to legalize marijuana in other states have led to increased drug use among youth, higher risk of impaired driving, and an increase in hospital emergency room visits, among other significant public health and safety concerns. On the other hand, patients suffering from debilitating pain and other medical conditions have struggled as traditional treatment strategies have failed to provide relief. The marijuana initiative appearing as Proposition 2 on the ballot this November does not strike the appropriate balance in ensuring safe and reasonable access for patients while also protecting youth and preventing other societal harms.
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We are firmly opposed to Proposition 2. However, we do not object to marijuana derivatives being used in medicinal form—so long as appropriate controls and safeguards are in place to ensure vulnerable populations are protected and access is limited to truly medicinal purposes. Moreover, though continued research into the risks and benefits of medical marijuana use remains paramount, current scientific evidence suggests marijuana contains components that may be of benefit to some patients.
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We urge the voters of Utah to vote no on Proposition 2. We also urge lawmakers, patients, and community stakeholders to work together to find a solution that works for all Utahns. The hallmarks of Utah’s unique policy accomplishments in the past have been civility, compassion, and a spirit of compromise, and we are confident an approach guided by these principles will yield similarly effective policies.
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Sincerely,
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Utah Medical Association
Salt Lake Chamber of Commerce
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Utah Episcopal Diocese
Utah Hospital Association
Utah PTA
Fraternal Order of Police
Family Policy Resource
Utah Narcotics Officers Association
Islamic Society of Greater Salt Lake
Latinos in Action
Utah Sheriff's Association
Salt Lake City Police Association
Sutherland Institute
Utah Hispanic Chamber of Commerce
Utah Eagle Forum
Utah Society of Anesthesiologists
Family First Foundation
Meridian Magazine
Newquist Group
Citizens for Strong Families
American College of Emergency Physicians, Utah Chapter
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Wayne Niederhauser—Utah Senate President
Greg Hughes—Speaker of the Utah House
Scott Anderson—President and CEO, Zions Bank
Gail Miller—Owner & Chair of the LHM Group of Companies
Karen Huntsman
Mike Leavitt—Former Governor, Secretary of HHS
David Huntsman, President, Huntsman Foundation
Mitt Romney—Former U.S. Presidential Candidate
Jim Jardine—Lawyer, Education Leader
Kem Gardner—Chairman, Gardner Company
Dave Mallinak, Pastor, Berean Baptism Church, Ogden
Steve Starks—President, Utah Jazz, and LHM Sports & Entertainment
Spencer P. Eccles—Former Exec. Dir. Governor's Office of Economic Development
Nathan Frodsham—Patient Advocate
Aimee Winder Newton—Chair Salt Lake County Council
Kim R. Wilson—Attorney
Enedina Stanger—Patient Advocate
Walt Plumb—Developer
Derek Miller—President and CEO, Salt Lake Chamber of Commerce
Todd Moon—Patient Advocate
Rev. Gregory Johnson, President of Standing Together
Carlton Christensen—Former Salt Lake City Council Member
Karen Hale—Former Utah State Senator
Mike Kennedy—MD
Ed Kennedy—President, Truth about Prop. 2
Jennifer Brown, DDS—Dentist
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*"There are a significant number of Utah elected officials and others running for office this year, who have signed the statement. We have chosen not to include their names here."



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[Sombeech]

It came from the church. Written by the president of the Utah area. It basically said that they're cool with the idea of medical marijuana, but not the bill as proposed. I'm cool with that statement. What I didn't really like was the line where they said in bold type "As a member of the coalition, we urge voters of Utah to vote NO on Proposition 2."

I see. I must not be on that email list lol.

Yeah that seems like a strong suggestion, but in the end there will be no retaliation against the members that did vote for Prop 2. They can urge us to vote a certain way just like they can urge to go to church on Sundays.

But we can see that in the end, the choice is up to us and we would receive zero punishment for voting a certain way. No shunning, no shaming, no special invitation to the bishops office, no banning, no whatever. We truly are allowed to make our own decisions, and they are truly allowed to urge us to vote a certain way without consequences.

It might look like overreaching, but I'm getting suggestions and advice on something every single Sunday, so it is what it is.

And yet, there's still not one person that knows which way I voted ;)

[Scott Card]

What opposing point of view? That the LDS church is controlling? Maybe you tell me how an institution that tells its members the following couldn't be considered controlling: how to dress, what to eat and drink, how many and where they can get piercings and tattoos, how to vote, what gender you can bang, whether kids can masturbate, have the byu honor code, what you can do on Sunday, etc. etc. etc.

I'm probably coming off as a bit of a dick, though I am not trying to. I don't personally believe in the theology and the culture and rules are certainly not for me, but if it's for others, great. Do what makes you happy. But I don't see how anyone could say the LDS church(and a whole hell of a lot of other religions) isn't controlling.

Why does this bother you so much? Every organization has "rules". My profession has rules and requirements to get in, a dress code, a conduct/ethics code, and a continuing behavior and education code. To be a lawyer I had to go to college, law school and pass the bar. I have to wear a suit and tie in court or risk contempt. If I commit certain crimes I lose my license. I have to attend so many hours of continuing legal education. So tell me again why an organizations rules are so offensive to you if you don't believe in the theology and culture and rules? You voluntarily join organizations. You voluntarily stay with organizations. You can leave the organization anytime you wish. If you get kicked out due to rules, well, yup, they have rules.

So what if the church renders an opinion on an issue before the voters. Freedom of thought and speech are the fundamental rights that make this country great and from which every other right flows. All of this hate and animosity towards others, their opinions, and their organization is what is making America less great.

[uintafly]

What a silly critique!!! Sombeech expresses a valid opinion in what he thinks is true, and he gets mocked for it?? uintafly must be a liberal. Name calling is the argument of the child/liberal. But this is the internet. There are trolls and liberal "logic" everywhere you look. If you're going to be a part of the psuedo-public arena, you've got to be able to handle criticism. I'm just surprised how silly this particular criticism is.

So true, the high minded conservatives are above such low brow humor as name calling and mocking. Only the snowflake libtards in their safespaces while collecting participation trophies and living off welfare in their moms basement would stoop so low as to generalize and mock! Conservatives have risen above it all, led my Mr. respectful himself, Donald J. Trump! Though I am confused, your post seems to have some name calling in it, so does that make you a liberal?

[devo_stevo]

I see. I must not be on that email list lol.

Yeah that seems like a strong suggestion, but in the end there will be no retaliation against the members that did vote for Prop 2. They can urge us to vote a certain way just like they can urge to go to church on Sundays.

But we can see that in the end, the choice is up to us and we would receive zero punishment for voting a certain way. No shunning, no shaming, no special invitation to the bishops office, no banning, no whatever. We truly are allowed to make our own decisions, and they are truly allowed to urge us to vote a certain way without consequences.

It might look like overreaching, but I'm getting suggestions and advice on something every single Sunday, so it is what it is.

And yet, there's still not one person that knows which way I voted ;)
Very true. I haven't had the bishop ask me which way I voted and I don't expect that to happen either. I just thought it was strange that they actually came out and suggested that we vote in a certain direction. Typically, it's more of a suggestion to study out the subject and vote according to your conscience as to what you think is right. That's all.

[uintafly]

Why does this bother you so much? Every organization has "rules". My profession has rules and requirements to get in, a dress code, a conduct/ethics code, and a continuing behavior and education code. To be a lawyer I had to go to college, law school and pass the bar. I have to wear a suit and tie in court or risk contempt. If I commit certain crimes I lose my license. I have to attend so many hours of continuing legal education. So tell me again why an organizations rules are so offensive to you if you don't believe in the theology and culture and rules? You voluntarily join organizations. You voluntarily stay with organizations. You can leave the organization anytime you wish. If you get kicked out due to rules, well, yup, they have rules.

So what if the church renders an opinion on an issue before the voters. Freedom of thought and speech are the fundamental rights that make this country great and from which every other right flows. All of this hate and animosity towards others, their opinions, and their organization is what is making America less great.


Nah, he must be getting irritated that there's somebody sticking up for the Mormons. It would piss me off too if I hated them.

Please for the love of God point out where I have ever said I hate Mormons??? Or even where I said their rules were "offensive" to me? It sure would be a surprise to many of my close friends and family that I secretly hate them all. Just pointing out that the LDS church is controlling (an opinion that is shared by a lot of members and non members alike btw) does not constitute me hating the Mormons. Since when does stating what many believe is a valid criticism of a group constitute "hate and animosity". It's absurd.

[jman]

Please for the love of God point out where I have ever said I hate Mormons??? Or even where I said their rules were "offensive" to me? It sure would be a surprise to many of my close friends and family that I secretly hate them all. Just pointing out that the LDS church is controlling (an opinion that is shared by a lot of members and non members alike btw) does not constitute me hating the Mormons. Since when does stating what many believe is a valid criticism of a group constitute "hate and animosity". It's absurd.

I believe the point of Scott’s post was that he isn’t a fan of YOUR word “controlling”.

He then gave an example of his law firm that, like a church, is “controlling”.

Perhaps you should rethink your usage of the word “controlling”. Controlling, means to domineer.

If you want to submit yourself to an organization, church, company, family, etc. there are expectations, statements, and proclamations that are given if one wants to join. That’s all there is to it.

If you want to be a temple worthy member, then you need to abstain from alcohol, coffee, pay tithing, etc. If you just want to be a member, you can still drink and smoke all you want, you just won’t be able to get a temple-recommend. You can still come to church, listen, interact and be a great contributing member despite your love/dependence on alcohol, prop2, etc! So again, not “controlling”. It’s a personal sacrifice giving up vices if you want to pursue a temple-recommend.

Now, if you abuse, hurt, are violent and “control” others, then the church membership can be revoked.

That is all cogent to me.

Again, perhaps relook at your usage of the word “controlling”.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DirkHammergate]

Jesus Christ did I miss something??

[devo_stevo]

Are you asking Him or us?

[Scott Card]

Please for the love of God point out where I have ever said I hate Mormons??? Or even where I said their rules were "offensive" to me? It sure would be a surprise to many of my close friends and family that I secretly hate them all. Just pointing out that the LDS church is controlling (an opinion that is shared by a lot of members and non members alike btw) does not constitute me hating the Mormons. Since when does stating what many believe is a valid criticism of a group constitute "hate and animosity". It's absurd.
My apologies. I was less than articulate in my post. My last comment about "all of the hate and animosity...." was a general observation as to the political climate in general, not you specifically. I am disappointed in the nastiness from both sides of the isle on virtually every issue in the news today. I am also disappointed with some inside and outside of my church as to the pointed and ignorant comments.

While I acknowledge there are churches in this world who do actually control people through governmental power and church power being the same thing, in the case of churches in this country, because of the wisdom of the founding fathers, church and state are separate. God be thanked for that principle. By in large, no one in this country is controlled. Exceptions being certain cult type organizations or whackadoodle parents brainwashing their kids.

I would welcome any discussion on my beliefs and the issue of agency or choice and accountability. Too many people want to relieve themselves for their problems by blaming someone or something else for their own choices. By extension, we get what we deserve when it comes to our politicians. It is a lazy argument to just throw out there that because of "x" church or "x" organization that person belonging to it is somehow controlled. I call bologna on that argument.

[Iceaxe]

Here's the email. I received it on 8-23.

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

My big problem with this email is I believe it violates the separation of church and state.

If you want to be a tax exempt religious organization that's fine, but then you should not be allowed to endorse candidates, judges, propositions, ect.

If you want to endorse candidates, judges, propositions that makes you an advocate and you should be paying taxes.

[Scott Card]

My big problem with this email is I believe it violates the separation of church and state.

If you want to be a tax exempt religious organization that's fine, but then you should not be allowed to endorse candidates, judges, propositions, ect.

If you want to endorse candidates, judges, propositions that makes you an advocate and you should be paying taxes.

Case law doesn't support your statement. And no, I don't have time to write you a brief... ;)

[uintafly]

Are you asking Him or us?

I laughed. Well done.

[Iceaxe]

Case law doesn't support your statement. And no, I don't have time to write you a brief... ;)
That's because churches have the money and political power to buy the case law outcomes they desire. It's a catch 22 :-)

Climb-Utah.com

[Scott Card]

Ice, my friend, You probably ought to rethink that statement again. So your saying the supreme court is bought and paid for? Nah.... Too many rulings "against" religion: Prayer in school, displaying the ten commandments, nativity scenes, discrimination actions...etc.

[Sombeech]

My big problem with this email is I believe it violates the separation of church and state..

No, a church can even go as far as to force their members to vote a certain way or threaten excommunication. The members have the freedom to leave that church, or that's where the State could get involved. But with church policies? No, unless they break the law.

The State however, cannot sponsor a certain religion.

Separation of Church and State only means the State cannot sponsor a religion, but the freedom of religion means a church can worship squirrels and nacho cheese and tell it's members to vote a specific way, and the State can't do a damned thing about it.

[Iceaxe]

Thanks for the education...

...still doesn't mean I have to like it ;-)

[emoji631]

[Sombeech]

Thanks for the education...


Consider it baptism

[devo_stevo]

Consider it baptism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE_0F3EAyu4

[accadacca]

“The cost is absolutely a problem. Insurance doesn’t pay for this, and it costs people usually at least $100, maybe up to $1,000 per month.”

https://www.ksl.com/article/46424274/what-minnesota-has-learned-about-cost-side-effects-of-medical-marijuana

[devo_stevo]

Back to buying it on the streets, I guess.

[rockgremlin]

Back to buying it on the streets, I guess.

Exactly. And that's precisely what's going to happen as well.

It's kinda like when folks go buy heroin on the street when their doctor cuts off their Oxycontin.

[accadacca]

Think about it, before you light up.

——

Court Rules That Medical Marijuana Card Holders Can't Buy Firearms

http://fortune.com/2016/09/01/medical-marijuana-gun/?utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR1HS5xbaLwnQQR5MOep85PS4tjHZCIsdP1InWCAL II_16BzF-jgvQyEeN8

[Iceaxe]

Here is the real problem with our healthcare... this is a bill... for ONE MONTH of chemo. And yet everyone is worried about medical marijuana being a problem...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181111/ece3aca5a8a48f6453c31a9cb37e73ec.jpg

Climb-Utah.com

[Iceaxe]

...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181111/853f66ae57a6a7423798d5814e658450.jpg

Climb-Utah.com

[uintafly]

Holy shit that’s painful. Basically an automatic bankruptcy for almost anyone without insurance. Hopefully not a member of your family, but if so good luck with the fight and f@&$ cancer.

[rockgremlin]

^^^ "Pay this amount..."


Good hell!! How do they sleep at night?

[Sombeech]

Think about it, before you light up.

——

Court Rules That Medical Marijuana Card Holders Can't Buy Firearms

http://fortune.com/2016/09/01/medical-marijuana-gun/?utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR1HS5xbaLwnQQR5MOep85PS4tjHZCIsdP1InWCAL II_16BzF-jgvQyEeN8

This will shock some people, but Marijuana is a drug, and it's a bad combo to be on drugs and have a firearm.

[DirkHammergate]

This will shock some people, but Marijuana is a drug, and it's a bad combo to be on drugs and have a firearm.

Fair enough, too bad you can't do that with Alcohol and firearms.

[Iceaxe]

Fair enough, too bad you can't do that with Alcohol and firearms.

Alcohol and firearms turn any day into a fun day....

:roflol:

Big difference between alcohol and marijuana in that one is legal on a Federal level and one is a felony.

But I get your drift, and if marijuana ever becomes legal on a Federal level I'm betting you see it's use related to firearm and the law mirror each other.

It's interesting to remember that alcohol while being legal on a federal level might not be legal on a state level. Three states, Kansas, Mississippi, and Tennessee, are entirely dry by default (counties can authorize the sale of alcohol). Utah has 9 cities that are dry.

:soapbox:

[rockgremlin]

This will shock some people, but Marijuana is a drug, and it's a bad combo to be on drugs and have a firearm.

And yet you can still lawfully own and use a firearm while having a prescription for morphine, Oxycontin, Xanax, Adderal, etc, etc...

#DoubleStandard

[middlefork]

I think drugs or alcohol is covered by "possession of a firearm by a restricted person".

If you are under the influence of alcohol or drugs you automatically become "restricted". But hey I'm no lawyer.

I suck at finding Utah code.

[Sombeech]

And yet you can still lawfully own and use a firearm while having a prescription for morphine, Oxycontin, Xanax, Adderal, etc, etc...

#DoubleStandard


I agree but it will take a long time to start rolling back firearms from these people that already have prescriptions and already conceal. Marijuana is an easy point to start at fresh.

[Sombeech]

To jump to another tangent on the same subject, we all know one of the major reasons that Medical Marijuana is so popular is because the big pharmaceutical companies are so profitable, they are the 1%, they lobby the government, yadda yadda yadda. And yes I spelled pharmaceutical correctly without spellcheck or Google on the first try.

We know the argument, Marijuana is good because the damned Opiod pharma firms are trying to block it and protect their profits!

When Marijuana becomes legal and is involved more and more in medicine, who do you think will capitalize on it? Yep, big pharma. If you guys think big pharma is afraid of marijuana because it will cut into their profits, WRONG. They are the very same firms and R&D departments RIGHT NOW developing and testing THC medicines. They've got the labs, scientists, manufacturing and distribution. They probably already have the ads created, just waiting to spam your social media accounts. Just a few more states to hop on board and here it comes!

If they get to experiment with heroin, for some reason we think they won't be allowed to work with Marijuana? Or do we think big pharma won't touch it because it's icky or for lower class, or that they truly don't know much about it, but they know about Cocaine, Heroin, Speed, Crack Fentanyl, and every other substance except for Marijuana?

Do we think the Marijuana market share will stay with the local guy growing it in the basement? By legalizing Marijuana, the people giving the middle finger to big pharma are unknowingly enabling a whole new level of profits and products to these firms.

And big pharma is sitting back, waiting, laughing, and creating new advertisements and promotions ready to launch when Marijuana is legal in more and more states. Thanks to those who "gave the middle finger to big pharma" by voting for Marijuana legalization.

It's the same false argument that the big cigarette companies were fighting hard against marijuana. Wrong, they have the infrastructure to whip up a million machine rolled joints within a month, they've got the factories, got the skilled employees, they've got the distribution, all they need is our vote to make Marijuana legal to "fight the cigarette companies". And they are laughing hysterically at all of us who think our vote for Marijuana is fighting them.

Do you know what would be GENIUS? If some of the most effective ads in favor of Marijuana legalization were created by big pharma funding... what else could get people motivated to vote for a drug, than to think you are fighting against a certain tyrannical oppression like big pharma? Genius strategy, and I'll bet big money that some of the ads and articles were funded by big pharma, but they will be slow to admit it. Just think about it.

Does that wool get itchy and sweaty when it's pulled over our eyes for so long?

[rockgremlin]

^^^Ugh could you summarize all of this with a meme please?

[Sombeech]

^^^Ugh could you summarize all of this with a meme please?

Voting for Marijuana legalization to hurt big pharma is exactly what big pharma is waiting for you to do. They need another product market.

[rockgremlin]

Voting for Marijuana legalization to hurt big pharma is exactly what big pharma is waiting for you to do. They need another product market.


Who is doing that? I know of nobody who voted for medical MJ who walked out of the voting booth pumping their fist and declaring victory over big pharma.


???:ne_nau:???


My reasons for voting for it were more pragmatic -- it's already everywhere, why not allow the State to benefit from it instead of the black market? Or our neighboring states who have already legalized it?

Another reason I voted for it is because I'm sick and tired of hearing about how those who might benefit from it are be treated like criminals.

[jman]

Who is doing that? I know of nobody who voted for medical MJ who walked out of the voting booth pumping their fist and declaring victory over big pharma.

???:ne_nau:???


I saw a lot of this in the KSL comment boards and on FB feeds from the local news media, of “the LDS church is heavily invested in Big Pharma and that’s why they want you to vote against it!!!! RAWR!!!!!”

“The church is worried about their billions invested in big pharma if this prop passes!!! RAWR!!”

“I hope this prop passes and hurts the church’s profits soooo bad! RAWRRR!”

Anyways, Sombeech’s explanation reminds me of a movie called the Promised Land with Matt Damon and Jon Krasinksi about fracking in these small farmland communities. But the kick is that Global (the company who wants to buy the farmers land) is playing both the good and bad guy having representatives play on both sides.

It’s actually a pretty interesting narrative about local politics and manipulation of public opinion. Give it a watch if you have two hours to spare.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rockgremlin]

I saw a lot of this in the KSL comment boards and on FB feeds from the local news media, of “the LDS church is heavily invested in Big Pharma and that’s why they want you to vote against it!!!! RAWR!!!!!”

“The church is worried about their billions invested in big pharma if this prop passes!!! RAWR!!”

“I hope this prop passes and hurts the church’s profits soooo bad! RAWRRR!”



:lol8: That's funny.

Nope, I didn't side with the conspiracy theorist "Down with Big Pharma, and down with the LDS agenda" mentality. This is actually the first I've heard of such a thing. Sounds pretty non-sensical. But then again, there are many folks that believe the moon landing was orchestrated in a warehouse in Area 51. People will believe anything.

[uintafly]

Big pharma has campaigned against MJ in other states, though I am not sure it was in Utah. Alcohol too for that matter.

But like rock said, I have never met anyone who was for mj just to stick it to big pharma. That'd be a pretty dumb reason to vote imo.

But big pharma will have a more difficult time taking over the industry for many reasons anyway. Mainly, It's probably super difficult to make oxy, but granny can grow pot in her backyard. Also it still is federally illegal, and I can't see giant pharma companies wanting to take the risks for pot.

[Sombeech]

Seriously guys? You've never seen people blaming "big pharma" for keeping Marijuana illegal?

I just looked up the very first "Medical Marijuana Utah" topic on Facebook, showed the first comments, hit Control F for "pharma" and here we go, I didn't even hit "Show More Comments".

Maybe you guys don't read other comments, but "big pharma" so called oppressive opponents to legalized marijuana.

If you guys still think big pharma is afraid of Marijuana, you be high.

91086

91087

91088

[rockgremlin]

I don't pay any attention to what others say or think. Maybe that's your problem. :haha:

[Sombeech]

The whole #RESIST movement voted against big pharma because ORANGE MAN BAD and 1% evil doesn't pay taxes, but when they realize big pharma has been waiting for us to legalize it the whole time so they can create a whole new profit sku, the poor SJWs will be like

https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohuAwaX6Q13W78tdS/giphy.gif

[accadacca]

rockgremiln and uintafly rolling state in a couple years... lol

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SnarlingMixedKomododragon-size_restricted.gif

[rockgremlin]

Far out maaaaan...I'm digging that chain link steering wheel...

[Iceaxe]

...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181115/8a5d44e2798ae432db6a20eb0ec7ea53.jpg

Climb-Utah.com

[accadacca]

Utah’s medical marijuana initiative is about to get swapped out with a compromise bill in the legislature

"What the public is going to see in the final special session is, from our perspective, about 90% of what was in Proposition 2"

https://fox13now.com/2018/11/14/utahs-medical-marijuana-initiative-is-about-to-get-swapped-out-with-a-compromise-bill-in-the-legislature/

[Iceaxe]

Utah’s medical marijuana initiative is about to get swapped out with a compromise bill in the legislature

"What the public is going to see in the final special session is, from our perspective, about 90% of what was in Proposition 2"

https://fox13now.com/2018/11/14/utahs-medical-marijuana-initiative-is-about-to-get-swapped-out-with-a-compromise-bill-in-the-legislature/

We shall see... when politicians use words like "compromise", "swapped out" and "90%", I'm betting they really mean "the compromise was that 90% of the original initiative has been swapped out".

Climb-Utah.com

[accadacca]

BREAKING: A medical marijuana advocacy group has threatened a lawsuit over involvement The LDS Church has had with members of the Utah State Legislature in crafting a “compromise” bill to replace Proposition 2.

https://fox13now.com/2018/11/15/medical-marijuana-advocacy-group-threatens-lawsuit-over-lds-church-involvement-in-prop-2-compromise/

[rockgremlin]

BREAKING: A medical marijuana advocacy group has threatened a lawsuit over involvement The LDS Church has had with members of the Utah State Legislature in crafting a “compromise” bill to replace Proposition 2.

https://fox13now.com/2018/11/15/medical-marijuana-advocacy-group-threatens-lawsuit-over-lds-church-involvement-in-prop-2-compromise/


Yeah I kinda figured that would happen.

“The Church of Jesus Christ has caused the sponsorship, passage, and/or defeat of many public laws—state, county, and municipal—for many years. It is common knowledge that no liquor bill, sex education bill, gambling bill, or sexual orientation/gender identity bill will be passed by the Legislature without the support of The Church of Jesus Christ.” -- Rocky Anderson


It's time for the LDS church to get out of politics. It's getting them deeper and deeper into hot water, and pissing people off to the point where it is now negatively affecting their image.

[uintafly]

Yeah I kinda figured that would happen.

“The Church of Jesus Christ has caused the sponsorship, passage, and/or defeat of many public laws—state, county, and municipal—for many years. It is common knowledge that no liquor bill, sex education bill, gambling bill, or sexual orientation/gender identity bill will be passed by the Legislature without the support of The Church of Jesus Christ.” -- Rocky Anderson


It's time for the LDS church to get out of politics. It's getting them deeper and deeper into hot water, and pissing people off to the point where it is now negatively affecting their image.

Queue Sombeech in 3, 2, 1... :twisted:

I've missed Rocky in my life. Welcome back old man, where have you been the last few years?

[Sombeech]

Queue Sombeech in 3, 2, 1... :twisted:

I know you'd rather nobody provide a contrary point of view, but we practice diversity and tolerance here.

[twotimer]

Anybody that indulges in pot on a regular basis is a loser. If the church is trying to keep it out of Utah, that's fine with me.

I'd rather hang out with a bunch of nice Mormon dudes that some doped up bums.

I don't buy the medicinal "miracle" that weed provides...you can drink two glasses of wine and it does the same damn thing.

And I don't need any of you guys coming in to school me about the "realities" of pot. I'd just laugh it off. I like the church and fully back it trying to protect their families and communities.

Sometimes ya gotta take sides, man.

[rockgremlin]

^^^ Two glasses of wine don't instill a desire to eat in terminal cancer patients undergoing chemo.

And I wouldn't give my 7 year old two glasses of wine to treat his epileptic seizures.

Go ahead and queue the laughter.

[twotimer]

^^^ Two glasses of wine don't instill a desire to eat in terminal cancer patients undergoing chemo.

And I wouldn't give my 7 year old two glasses of wine to treat his epileptic seizures.

Go ahead and queue the laughter.People can snort bleach for all I care, but hey man, you've got your side, I've got mine.

I don't know anyone who is sick and needs pot to feel better. Sure hear a lot of talk about it, though. All I know is that I'm working 20 miles away from downtown and these ate up people are popping out of the bushes. Seems to me that there's two things they want to live by...a McDonald's and a dispensary.

I reckon you've got a homeless problem in Utah, eh? Well, now there's going to be a lot more of them.

And if you have a kid who's having seizures then I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

[rockgremlin]

So since you don't know of somebody personally who is benefiting from the medical aspects of MJ then medical marijuana must therefore be hogwash...all just a ruse to get high.

Damn. I thought we had you fooled!

[uintafly]

Anybody that indulges in pot on a regular basis is a loser. If the church is trying to keep it out of Utah, that's fine with me.

I'd rather hang out with a bunch of nice Mormon dudes that some doped up bums.

I don't buy the medicinal "miracle" that weed provides...you can drink two glasses of wine and it does the same damn thing.

And I don't need any of you guys coming in to school me about the "realities" of pot. I'd just laugh it off. I like the church and fully back it trying to protect their families and communities.

Sometimes ya gotta take sides, man.

Damn, twotimer has the same reefer madness thoughts as Jeff Sessions. I wonder if you feel the same way about guys like me that have a few beers a couple nights a week, or if it is pot specific? I never understand people that view everything in such strong black and white terms. I do a lot of business with a guy that ran a very successful company sold it a decade or so ago and has been very involved with local real estate development and rentals. Has a net worth north of $20 mill, hasn't made less than $800,000 in any of the last 4 years and is just a really nice generous guy. Successful kids, nice wife, but smokes fairly regularly so must be a loser.

As for the loser dopeheads that basically just sit around and get high all day, does the pot cause that or would they do that regardless? Because there seems to be a lot of losers that don't use pot.

Personally, I just don't need government bureaucrats making decisions about what I can do with my own body. I always figured I can make my own decisions and deal with the consequences. Some folks really like big government control and lots of laws and regulations, I just don't happen to be one of those guys. YMMV.

[twotimer]

Funny thing is, I'd share a joint with ya right now. :roflol:

I just see pot tearin' a lot of people up, that's all.

[Iceaxe]

How about pot doesn't create losers, it's that losers are drawn to pot... Anyhoo, food for thought.

And yes, the same could be said for alcohol.

Climb-Utah.com

[bertha]

subscribed, this seems like a very interesting threadhttp://gshort.click/isna/8/o.png

[Scott Card]

How about pot doesn't create losers, it's that losers are drawn to pot... Anyhoo, food for thought.

And yes, the same could be said for alcohol.

Climb-Utah.com

Actually....... otherwise good/sharp people can get sucked (no pun intended) into this world and become really stupid. Pot has never made any of my clients smarter. Just my experience after more than a 1000 criminal cases, mostly involving drugs and/or alcohol. It is, after all, called "dope" rather than "intelligence" for a reason. :haha:

[Sombeech]

Pot has never made any of my clients smarter. Just my experience after more than a 1000 criminal cases

Nobody can argue this.

[DirkHammergate]

Nobody can argue this.

I haven't seen anyone on this thread argue that point.

[DirkHammergate]

I've seen arguments that it helps people with anxiety, chronic pain, epileptic seizures, glaucoma, and cancer patients. I could go on.

[rockgremlin]

Nobody can argue this.

Who are you talking to about weed? So far you keep insisting that it won't make you smarter, and that voting for Prop 2 won't bankrupt big Pharma.

But nobody I know is arguing those two things. I thought that stuff was common knowledge.

Regardless, it kinda sounds like folks are getting off track again...Prop 2 is for MEDICINAL not RECREATIONAL marijuana usage. There's a huge difference.

[rockgremlin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&noapp=1&v=0D8RRFnbOdg


Check out Sombeech in the tan butterfly collar "blast off to kicks-ville..." :roflol:

[Sombeech]

I've seen arguments that it helps people with anxiety, chronic pain, epileptic seizures, glaucoma, and cancer patients. I could go on.

yeah I've seen the arguments that it cures cancer too :roflol:

[jman]

Who are you talking to about weed? So far you keep insisting that it won't make you smarter, and that voting for Prop 2 won't bankrupt big Pharma.

But nobody I know is arguing those two things. I thought that stuff was common knowledge.

Regardless, it kinda sounds like folks are getting off track again...Prop 2 is for MEDICINAL not RECREATIONAL marijuana usage. There's a huge difference.

Well...unless you happen to live something like 100 miles away from a dispensary, then you would be “allowed” to grow it recreationally...but I mean...for “medicinal” use.

Watch out rural Utah, you are soon going to be seeing a influx of “visitors” and “new neighbors”. [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rockgremlin]

yeah I've seen the arguments that it cures cancer too :roflol:


Used to treat the symptoms of cancer....absolutely. Even the National Cancer Institute believes this: https://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatments-and-side-effects/complementary-and-alternative-medicine/marijuana-and-cancer.html

As far as curing or defeating cancer itself...wellllll, yeah that's mostly speculative. But even all but the most hardened stoner will concede this.


Just curious....what narrative are you promoting anyway? That pot has absolutely ZERO medicinal benefits, and all of these propositions that have sprung up all over the U.S. are just well crafted lies to promote the widespread use of recreational MJ? Cuz that's the vibe you're putting out.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[twotimer]

Just curious....what narrative are you promoting anyway? That pot has absolutely ZERO medicinal benefits, and all of these propositions that have sprung up all over the U.S. are just well crafted lies to promote the widespread use of recreational MJ? Cuz that's the vibe you're putting out.

Correct me if I'm wrong.Speaking for myself...yes.

And you don't need to be corrected, because opinions vary.

[rockgremlin]

Speaking for myself...yes.

And you don't need to be corrected, because opinions vary.


WOW. I guess placebo is a powerful thing eh? All those folks who are/were suffering from seizures and chemo -- they're all just benefiting from the placebo effect because MJ has absolutely zero medicinal value. Crazy...

[twotimer]

WOW. I guess placebo is a powerful thing eh? All those folks who are/were suffering from seizures and chemo -- they're all just benefiting from the placebo effect because MJ has absolutely zero medicinal value. Crazy...Oh yeah! I'm crazy alright...crazy man with crazy opinions. No denying that.

You should take a chill pill, Mr. Gremlin. Seems like you're taking this all a bit personally. Besides, you're swingin' the big dick now, as it passed. You got to see the church get kicked in the teeth, too.

It was legal here in for years as "medicine", and my friends were joyously pouring hash oil on top of the buds.

[uintafly]

Nobody can argue this.

Who is? I haven't seen people (other than a very few kooks) argue that it makes anyone smarter? To me that isn't the point though. It can't be argued that a super sized Big Mac meal is healthy, but I don't personally need the government to make my meal choices for me. There is currently an estimated 12.7 million obese kids in America. If they all become obese adults, what is the societal costs? And yet, when Michelle Obama tried to push for healthier school lunch options the right screeched about freedom. Now I am supposed to listen to these same people say pot should be illegal because of societal costs?

Annual healthcare costs for obesity related illness is $190 billion though, so maybe you guys are correct and we need the all knowing government to step in and help get us into shape. We can call it the war on cellulite and create a big agency called the Fatass Enforcement Agency. Based on the glowing success of the war on drugs, I am sure we will have it whipped in just a few months.

[Sombeech]

Just curious....what narrative are you promoting anyway?
I'm not promoting any point of view, no narrative. I'm just the guy providing a balanced check to odd claims. I've still never said whether or not I'm opposed to Medical Marijuana, or Prop 2. I'm just replying to BS claims whenever they are made.

I'm sure we've heard the conspiracy theory that Marijuana does cure / help with cancer, but big pharma is once again suppressing it because it would cut into their profits. Of course, this line of logic, once followed through, would have to see big pharma investing in Marijuana healing properties for BILLIONS more in profit.

This was the reason the LDS church was opposed first of all, because of their stock profile invested in big pharma, I remember reading that theory many a time.

So I don't buy for one second that big pharma is opposing Marijuana and that it actually does curb cancer, because they would be all over it for the profits if nothing else. Big pharma would have the finest pot growing fields with the best strains, much better than a stoner in his basement.

If there is a decent chance it helps with Cancer, big pharma would be in a race to take all of the glory for finding the cure to cancer.

[rockgremlin]

You should take a chill pill, Mr. Gremlin.


When you say "chill pill" are you referring to an edible? :lol8:


Perhaps you're right and I need to back off. I think maybe this "Platinum Status" has gone to my head. For all of this rhetoric on behalf of marijuana you'd think that I toke up on the regular, but alas 'tis not so. I can't recall when the last time it was...

[uintafly]

I'm not promoting any point of view, no narrative. I'm just the guy providing a balanced check to odd claims. I've still never said whether or not I'm opposed to Medical Marijuana, or Prop 2. I'm just replying to BS claims whenever they are made.

I'm sure we've heard the conspiracy theory that Marijuana does cure / help with cancer, but big pharma is once again suppressing it because it would cut into their profits. Of course, this line of logic, once followed through, would have to see big pharma investing in Marijuana healing properties for BILLIONS more in profit.

This was the reason the LDS church was opposed first of all, because of their stock profile invested in big pharma, I remember reading that theory many a time.

So I don't buy for one second that big pharma is opposing Marijuana and that it actually does curb cancer, because they would be all over it for the profits if nothing else. Big pharma would have the finest pot growing fields with the best strains, much better than a stoner in his basement.

If there is a decent chance it helps with Cancer, big pharma would be in a race to take all of the glory for finding the cure to cancer.

Come on man. Nobody with any brains believes that conspiracy theory. Sure, you can probably find a few nut jobs on facebook repeating it, but you can also find a few nut jobs who thought Hillary was running an underground sec ring out of a pizza place. I'd say 98% of legalization folks are either like me and think the government should mind their own business, or people that want to use it for whatever reason (medical* or recreational) and don't want to have to risk jail.

*as an appetite enhancer, mild pain killer, or for the proven effects on seizures.

[Scott Card]

For all of this rhetoric on behalf of marijuana you'd think that I toke up on the regular, but alas 'tis not so. I can't recall when the last time it was...
Well, that proves my point..... :lol8:

[rockgremlin]

Well, that proves my point..... :lol8:



I KNEW THAT WAS COMING!!! :lol8:

[Sombeech]

Nobody with any brains believes that conspiracy theory.

I agree

[twotimer]

When you say "chill pill" are you referring to an edible? :lol8:


Watch out for those damn things! I was in Hawaii a couple years ago when a girlfriend of mine came out to join me. She brought some edibles when we went backpacking in the National Park. I'd never had one.

We were going on a big dayhike and I dropped one into my morning tea...a jelly like thing about the size of a silver dollar. It dissolved and I drank it.

It hit me within 15 minutes and I spent the next 3 hours laid out in the tent. I'll never do that again.

[accadacca]

West Wendover has approved the sale of recreational marijuana.

"I’m sure their sales are going to be high," Mayor Daniel Corona told FOX 13 after the vote, adding: "Pun not intended."

https://fox13now.com/2018/11/20/west-wendover-approves-recreational-marijuana-sales/

[uintafly]

Watch out for those damn things! I was in Hawaii a couple years ago when a girlfriend of mine came out to join me. She brought some edibles when we went backpacking in the National Park. I'd never had one.

We were going on a big dayhike and I dropped one into my morning tea...a jelly like thing about the size of a silver dollar. It dissolved and I drank it.

It hit me within 15 minutes and I spent the next 3 hours laid out in the tent. I'll never do that again.

I had a similar experience about 5 years ago when a coworker gave me a homemade "cookie". It took about an hour to fully hit, but when it did I legitimately couldn't move. I remember laying there and thinking "I'm pretty sure my body will keep breathing for me, but no other muscle is working so who knows." Fast forward a few years and I was skiing in Steamboat and had a friend buy a special chocolate bar. No amount of coaxing was getting me to take a bite of that thing.

[rockgremlin]

West Wendover has approved the sale of recreational marijuana.

"I’m sure their sales are going to be high," Mayor Daniel Corona told FOX 13 after the vote, adding: "Pun not intended."

https://fox13now.com/2018/11/20/west-wendover-approves-recreational-marijuana-sales/


Rah Roh...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/79/17/be/7917be078fc97c2d2d7a19618e1e80ac.jpg


I'm 100% certain that the UHP will spend a LOT more time along that stretch of I-80. If you thought enforcement was tight along the Wyoming/Utah border trolling for fireworks, you ain't seen nothing yet!

[Sombeech]

My first edible experience was like most, I waited 45 minutes and it didn't hit, so I took another. There's a whole lotta more complicated detail to where I was and who I was with that night, but I think I barely made it out alive. Sometimes you're convinced that if you don't remember to breathe, you'll stop.

[uintafly]

My first edible experience was like most, I waited 45 minutes and it didn't hit, so I took another. There's a whole lotta more complicated detail to where I was and who I was with that night, but I think I barely made it out alive. Sometimes you're convinced that if you don't remember to breathe, you'll stop.

Sounds like many have been there before, it is really such a terrible feeling, but it makes me laugh to remember it. :roflol::roflol:

I remember reading about some journalist who went to Colorado shortly after they legalized it. She had never smoked pot before and somehow thought it would be a good idea to take a bunch of edibles and sit in her hotel room all by herself. Sounded like she had a pretty terrible few hours and didn't think she would make it out alive.

[twotimer]

I remember hearing about that gal, too. I recall thinking she was a total lightweight...and then I went and did the same thing.

[accadacca]

For Rockgremiln and the Bogley Stoner Club.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181122/598632b8765fe277ab9873ab53bf695c.jpg

[rockgremlin]

For Rockgremiln and the Bogley Stoner Club.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181122/598632b8765fe277ab9873ab53bf695c.jpg

LOL you know what? I hadn't even heard of this event, and if you wouldn't have posted it here I would've just ignored it. But now just to be silly I'm marking my calendar and planning on attending.

I can "buzz" on down on my lunch break and check out the circus.

Anyone else down? Maybe we can grab something to eat and call it an unofficial Bogley lunch. :lol8:

C'mon who's with me?

[Iceaxe]

Can I attend with an AR-15 slung over my shoulder?

Climb-Utah.com

[qedcook]

So true, the high minded conservatives are above such low brow humor as name calling and mocking. Only the snowflake libtards in their safespaces while collecting participation trophies and living off welfare in their moms basement would stoop so low as to generalize and mock! Conservatives have risen above it all, led my Mr. respectful himself, Donald J. Trump! Though I am confused, your post seems to have some name calling in it, so does that make you a liberal?

Sorry, never got around to replying to this. I'm sure we could get into a cyclical "no, you're a name-caller" match, but in the spirit of thanksgiving, I'm going to take the higher road. Just kidding, just kidding. I just think it's lame for everyone to be allowed to have all sorts of different ideas--and to have all sorts of different motivations for their ideas--but as soon as someone's motivation could even hint at being partially religious in nature, they can be instantly attacked and discredited??? It's presumptuous to automatically jump to the conclusion that religion has anything to do with a person's reasoning. And, so what if it does?

On a sidenote, I was joking about the liberal thing. I agree totally that republicans can be just as bad at mocking and name-calling.

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181128/dfc068e56b10d804e3a3f8f3b7c8ebe3.jpg

[Sombeech]

So what is the current status of this, I don't even follow it and I almost don't care. Bogley is my news about the Marijuana in Utah LOL

[Iceaxe]

It's so cute that people think the LDS Church will ever allow marijuana to be sold in Utah. The state legislature and governor have already completely gutted Prop 2.

[rockgremlin]

It's so cute that people think the LDS Church will ever allow marijuana to be sold in Utah. The state legislature and governor have already completely gutted Prop 2.


This is why you need to come up and picket with me this Monday at the Capitol. :haha:


Truth is, what the legislature is doing is a complete miscarriage of our democratic process -- and I'm predicting that this is FAR from over. We will be seeing lawsuits and litigation for years to come over this.

[Sombeech]

Oh come on, surely all of the Likes on Facebook about the little girl who has seizures was enough to change everybody's minds.

[rockgremlin]

Oh come on, surely all of the Likes on Facebook about the little girl who has seizures was enough to change everybody's minds.


I sincerely hope you don't have a family member who ever has medical issues that could be improved by cannabis.

Because boy wouldn't you be in a quandary? On the one hand you wanna do everything you can to improve their quality of life...but on the other you've so completely established yourself at odds with the pro-cannabis agenda.

Whatever would you do?

[uintafly]

Doesn't it seem insane that the people can vote in support of a proposition and the all-mighty legislators can just step forward and completely change it? I know that government knows best in all things, but can't the populace occasionally make a bad on our own? I mean if this was California or New York it would make sense, but I always thought Utah believed in personal responsibility and limited government.

[Scott Card]

It seems to me that if don't like what the legislature does to a proposition you don't go out and vote on a new proposition, you vote for a new legislator. You don't file lawsuits, you file to run for an office. :ne_nau:

[rockgremlin]

It seems to me that if don't like what the legislature does to a proposition you don't go out and vote on a new proposition, you vote for a new legislator. You don't file lawsuits, you file to run for an office. :ne_nau:


Many if not most folks are not qualified to run for office or are unable due to financial or personal reasons. This is one of the reasons why propositions are so popular with the people.

So your solution to not liking the POTUS is to run for POTUS yourself? :ne_nau:

[twotimer]

Whatever floats yer boat...

[Sombeech]

On the one hand you wanna do everything you can to improve their quality of life...

Would that include pursuing some of the dozens of existing remedies for seizures, including the already legal CBD oil?

[rockgremlin]

Would that include pursuing some of the dozens of existing remedies for seizures, including the already legal CBD oil?

OR the THC side of the coin that does the following:


-- Treats neuropathic pain

-- Enhances food intake in HIV patients

-- Treats nausea and/or vomiting in Cancer patients suffering from chemotherapy


Here's the source of those claims: https://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatments-and-side-effects/complementary-and-alternative-medicine/marijuana-and-cancer.html

Though I doubt you'll click that link because these claims fly in the face of your mantra that Medical Marijuana = a ruse for stoners to legalize weed :roll:

[Scott Card]

Many if not most folks are not qualified to run for office or are unable due to financial or personal reasons. This is one of the reasons why propositions are so popular with the people.

So your solution to not liking the POTUS is to run for POTUS yourself? :ne_nau: I was only speaking of the the state legislator in your local voting district. The POTUS can't change a state proposition. :crazy: The qualifications to run for President of the United States of America or your local neighborhood legislator aren't that rigorous. It really is something like are you a citizen, breath, and out of the juvenile justice system plus a couple of years. :haha:

Most people don't want to run for the local offices on the state or local level because they don't want to. Most people don't like confrontation or to defend themselves. Most people lack the passion for the job. Most people are happy with the status quo and won't get involved unless something is wrong or the person in office messes up really badly. Stated another way, most people are mostly bark then walk back to their house.

A state office campaign, other than governor or attorney general (statewide offices), is not that expensive to run in most cases. Many times, the legislator in your district runs unopposed. And so, if you don't like how the legislator in your districts votes, run for office. If you are so in favor of marijuana and your legislator does not share your viewpoint, the direct approach is to run against him and engage in the debate directly and publicly. Ferret out his opinions. Persuade people against his views and get elected to cast your vote where it really matters - the language of the actual law. Until then, your legislator will do what he/she is elected to do, vote on stuff and make laws based upon what he/she thinks.

[Scott Card]

OR the THC side of the coin that does the following:


-- Treats neuropathic pain

-- Enhances food intake in HIV patients

-- Treats nausea and/or vomiting in Cancer patients suffering from chemotherapy


Here's the source of those claims: https://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatments-and-side-effects/complementary-and-alternative-medicine/marijuana-and-cancer.html

Though I doubt you'll click that link because these claims fly in the face of your mantra that Medical Marijuana = a ruse for stoners to legalize weed :roll: I clicked the link. Your claims above relate to the approved and legal prescription form of THC and a synthetic that acts a lot like THC. Is there a problem that there is a prescription form? At a $1.56 per pill, is that unreasonable? So why, again, do we need to legalize THC if there is a legal prescription form that is pretty cheap?

[rockgremlin]

^^^ no problem really, but I'd like to see all forms of THC approved for medical purposes - not just Marinol. A buck and a half is pretty cheap per pill, but I'll bet in whole form right from the plant is even cheaper and easier to access. Besides, any and all THC is (or was) illegal in Utah. And THC is still illegal as per federal regulations -- "has no medicinal value" -- I still can't see how the feds can claim that with a straight face when so much documented research has proven otherwise.

Thanks for the thoughts regarding legislators -- I had no idea it was so wide open. It's almost tempting...

I'm honestly advocating for an open mind on medicinal, but it's an uphill battle because there's so much closed mindedness on the topic. You say medical marijuana and immediately many folks get really cynical and roll their eyes because they conflate medical and recreational.

[Scott Card]

I'm honestly advocating for an open mind on medicinal, but it's an uphill battle because there's so much closed mindedness on the topic. You say medical marijuana and immediately many folks get really cynical and roll their eyes because they conflate medical and recreational. My mind is wide open. I think the eye-roll from many folks is a result of what has happened in other states. The definition of "Medicinal" in many states like California and Colorado is defined a wee bit too loosely for most conservatives. Sore feet? Get a marijuana card!!!! :lol8::nono:

[windminstrel]

My mind is wide open. I think the eye-roll from many folks is a result of what has happened in other states. The definition of "Medicinal" in many states like California and Colorado is defined a wee bit too loosely for most conservatives. Sore feet? Get a marijuana card!!!! :lol8::nono:

91171

[uintafly]

My mind is wide open. I think the eye-roll from many folks is a result of what has happened in other states. The definition of "Medicinal" in many states like California and Colorado is defined a wee bit too loosely for most conservatives. Sore feet? Get a marijuana card!!!! :lol8::nono:

My question though is why do you care? If someone wants to sit in their house and smoke pot for recreational purposes, why does it bother you? Would you also support alcohol prohibition again? It reminds me a bit of the gay marriage debate. You don't want to get gay married, don't. If you don't want to smoke pot, don't! But why do you get to decide for everyone else?

Maybe it is just the independent, freedom loving American in me, but I don't need a government bureaucrat to tell me what I can eat or drink. And that goes well beyond pot, If I want to drink a 64 oz. soda in NYC why is that a problem? If I have a painful terminal illness, why should the government tell me I can't end it peaceably? Probably the same reason I was pissed they closed Nutty Putty closed. Let people take responsibility for their own lives.


It seems to me that if don't like what the legislature does to a proposition you don't go out and vote on a new proposition, you vote for a new legislator. You don't file lawsuits, you file to run for an office. :ne_nau:

Seems like if the leg didn't think prop 2 was good for us, they should have done a better job of convincing a majority of the voters.

[rockgremlin]

My question though is why do you care? If someone wants to sit in their house and smoke pot for recreational purposes, why does it bother you? Would you also support alcohol prohibition again? It reminds me a bit of the gay marriage debate. You don't want to get gay married, don't. If you don't want to smoke pot, don't! But why do you get to decide for everyone else?

Maybe it is just the independent, freedom loving American in me, but I don't need a government bureaucrat to tell me what I can eat or drink. And that goes well beyond pot, If I want to drink a 64 oz. soda in NYC why is that a problem? If I have a painful terminal illness, why should the government tell me I can't end it peaceably? Probably the same reason I was pissed they closed Nutty Putty closed. Let people take responsibility for their own lives.



Seems like if the leg didn't think prop 2 was good for us, they should have done a better job of convincing a majority of the voters.


^^^THIS^^^

I've always wondered what the big deal with recreational is anyway. As I have stated previously ad nausem -- it's already present everywhere in massive quantities. Why not profit from it?

[twotimer]

My question though is why do you care? But why do you get to decide for everyone else?

Seems to me he was just expressing his opinion. That doesn't go over very well with you liberal types, now does it?

Personally, I think prostitution should be legal. Any woman over 18. Got any daughters, Mr. Fly?

[rockgremlin]

Personally, I think prostitution should be legal. Any woman over 18.

You should pick up and move to Nevada - where prostitution IS legal. :naughty:

[uintafly]

Seems to me he was just expressing his opinion. That doesn't go over very well with you liberal types, now does it?

Personally, I think prostitution should be legal. Any woman over 18. Got any daughters, Mr. Fly?

He gave his opinion, I gave mine. It's not my fault that his opinion is wrong. :twisted: I am not sure what it has to do with liberal/conservative honestly. I'd say my pov in this is closer to the Libertarian pov honestly. Since when is "get government out of my life" a liberal viewpoint? I am just requesting the government stop treading on me. :roflol:

By the way, we agree on the prostitution thing too, and I have a daughter. Luckily not a prostitute though. Regulate it, tax it, and segregate it to certain areas and I am just fine with it. It's done all over Europe. Better than streetwalkers in my opinion. The hard part (see what I did there) about prostitution is making sure that even legal brothels are "human trafficking" free.

[rockgremlin]

The hard part (see what I did there)....


:lol8: This is the reason why a long time ago I made it a point to replace the word "hard" in my vocabulary with "difficult."

[Iceaxe]

I'm a big believer that the worse thing you can do is keep vice hidden in the dark shadows. That goes for drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc. By forcing these vices into the shadows you create crime and victims who are afraid to report the crimes. But the dumbest thing of all is you can't legislature vice or morals, despite what our Utah legislators think.

Climb-Utah.com

[twotimer]

He gave his opinion, I gave mine. It's not my fault that his opinion is wrong. :twisted: I am not sure what it has to do with liberal/conservative honestly. Yeah...but in your opinion, he'd favor outlawing alcohol and is possibly against gay marriage? Liberals IMO, tend to "pile on" with the accusations...when in reality, he didn't mention any of those subjects. I didn't notice him saying he was definitively against rec. mj, either.

Of course, Scott can speak for himself...I just thought the way you pigeonholed him was a bit heavy.

[twotimer]

You should pick up and move to Nevada - where prostitution IS legal. :naughty:Damn near did that a few years ago. I decided to take a break from women after the most recent girlfriend but after about 2 years I started to get jacked up. I was going to take a road trip to that whorehouse south of Vegas (figured it would cost me about $1000 to get leveled out) when one of my neighbors came around all flirty and shaking her hips.

She came out to Hawaii with me and I ended up spending that grandad anyway...picking up the lion's share of food and lodging. Worth it though...nothing like the warmth of a woman to square you away.

[rockgremlin]

I'm a big believer that the worse thing you can do is keep vice hidden in the dark shadows. That goes for drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc. By forcing these vices into the shadows you create crime and victims who are afraid to report the crimes. But the dumbest thing of all is you can't legislature vice or morals, despite what our Utah legislators think.

Climb-Utah.com

^^^^This is so true.^^^^

And it's one of the major reasons the war on drugs is a colossal failure.

[rockgremlin]

I decided to take a break from women after the most recent girlfriend....


And give men a try? :haha:

[Scott Card]

My question though is why do you care? If someone wants to sit in their house and smoke pot for recreational purposes, why does it bother you? Would you also support alcohol prohibition again? It reminds me a bit of the gay marriage debate. You don't want to get gay married, don't. If you don't want to smoke pot, don't! But why do you get to decide for everyone else?

Maybe it is just the independent, freedom loving American in me, but I don't need a government bureaucrat to tell me what I can eat or drink. And that goes well beyond pot, If I want to drink a 64 oz. soda in NYC why is that a problem? If I have a painful terminal illness, why should the government tell me I can't end it peaceably? Probably the same reason I was pissed they closed Nutty Putty closed. Let people take responsibility for their own lives.



Seems like if the leg didn't think prop 2 was good for us, they should have done a better job of convincing a majority of the voters. I think I will avoid responding to the ad hominem and other fallacious comments in your statement. I will however tell you that I care, just like you care, about rights, our community, and our country. I care based upon my life experience and what I believe is best for my community and my country. I don't believe that unrestricted use of marijuana is good for society. Yep, there it is, my opinion. :)

[Scott Card]

I'm a big believer that the worse thing you can do is keep vice hidden in the dark shadows. That goes for drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc. By forcing these vices into the shadows you create crime and victims who are afraid to report the crimes. But the dumbest thing of all is you can't legislature vice or morals, despite what our Utah legislators think.

Climb-Utah.com
I am not sure where to start with this comment. I have said this many times to many groups and individuals. The Law is very simply societies' definition of the lowest moral standard. In other words, for virtually every law, there is a moral reason. If you fall below the law, you have fallen below the lowest acceptable standard established by society. Think of trying to make a dollar in any business. There are rules about how to do that for the benefit of society founded upon principles of honesty and fairness -- moral principles. The criminal code, child support, alimony, etc. etc. are all based on morality or controlling "vices", or doing what you ought to be doing as a (moral) human being (supporting kids you brought into this world so society doesn't have to). To be blunt, legislatures can and do legislate morality. In fact, it is about all they do.

This is why I say, if you have an opposing view from your neighbors, run for office and persuade those in your voting district that your views (of morality) are correct.

[rockgremlin]

So....it follows then that by those standards partaking of medical marijuana is immoral....which is categorically untrue.


The same logic somehow endorses alcohol and tobacco consumption. Huge double standard there.


You're treading into reallllly grey areas by trying to legislate and enforce morality. That is a line that differs from person to person. Why then did Canada as a country vote to legalize recreational marijuana? Because they are immoral? :ne_nau:

[Scott Card]

So....it follows then that by those standards partaking of medical marijuana is immoral....which is categorically untrue.


The same logic somehow endorses alcohol and tobacco consumption. Huge double standard there.


You're treading into reallllly grey areas by trying to legislate and enforce morality. That is a line that differs from person to person. Why then did Canada as a country vote to legalize recreational marijuana? Because they are immoral? :ne_nau: :facepalm1::facepalm1::facepalm1:

"mo·ral·i·ty
/məˈralədē/
noun



principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.
...."



Sorry, but it is true. Society chooses its moral code of conduct. It is called the law. Society has defined marijuana use as "immoral" because it is behavior that is not accepted. It is bad under the law. The law IS the legal definition of right and wrong, good and bad, as defined by the government -- people we elected. It is the lowest moral code accepted by society. Seems that our nature is to not be controlled or to be told what is right or wrong, moral or immoral. So, welcome to the law and welcome to the purpose of governments, and welcome to defining morality for the masses.

Yes, I'd agree as to the double standard regarding alcohol and tobacco. Are there any health benefits whatsoever to tobacco??? Why is it still legal?

As to Canada, they lowered the bar/definition of morality or legality regarding marijuana. It used to be immoral/illegal now it is not.

[Sombeech]

My question though is why do you care?
What you are missing, for those of us who DON'T CARE, if you want to change the law you need to make a better arguments than:
Mormons are controlling,
Marijuana isn't terrible. ..

YOU need to do better work at convincing us to go support it. It's not us that need to open our minds, it's you that needs to do a better job at selling it.

The guilt trip doesn't motivate me to vote for something, except against it.

[twotimer]

And give men a try? :haha:Oh heck...I wouldn't have to drive all the way to Nevada to get some nookie in that case...There's a gay bar "The Mineshaft" just a mile up the road.

[rockgremlin]

What you are missing, for those of us who DON'T CARE, if you want to change the law you need to make a better arguments than:
Mormons are controlling,
Marijuana isn't terrible. ..




I did. Did you click the link I posted?

Or are you still insistent that "medical marijuana" is just a concept dreamed up by Willie Nelson and Cheech and Chong to finally legalize what they've been indulging in for the last 5 decades? And the notion that cannabis could ever be medicinal is just a well crafted lie meant to benefit all of those hippy stoners out there who are sick of running from the law to get their puff on?

[rockgremlin]

"mo·ral·i·ty
/məˈralədē/
noun


principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.



:lol8: I see what you did there...couching your response in dictionary format...:lol8:

The problem as I see it are those two words that I highlighted: Right and Wrong. So, so subjective. Your right might be my wrong, and vice versa. And if my wrong doesn't impact you or anybody else, then why are you poking your beak in?

[twotimer]

Ahhhh...pick a side. There's winners and losers. In the meantime, anybody wanna get high?



91183

[Scott Card]

:lol8: I see what you did there...couching your response in dictionary format...:lol8:

The problem as I see it are those two words that I highlighted: Right and Wrong. So, so subjective. Your right might be my wrong, and vice versa. And if my wrong doesn't impact you or anybody else, then why are you poking your beak in? Actually, I cut and pasted from the dictionary. The point was that morality is defining right and wrong. Legislators define "right and wrong" and we call it "law". You are correct about definitions of right and wrong. My definition may not be your definition of right and wrong or good and bad. That is why I may vote one way and you may vote another way. America is just awesome that way! We vote for who we think will best represent our values, our morality, our definition of right and wrong.

[uintafly]

I think I will avoid responding to the ad hominem and other fallacious comments in your statement. I will however tell you that I care, just like you care, about rights, our community, and our country. I care based upon my life experience and what I believe is best for my community and my country. I don't believe that unrestricted use of marijuana is good for society. Yep, there it is, my opinion. :)

Not to keep poking you, but where is the ad hominem? Nothing in my post was really directed at you, other to ask why you care what other people do. And I do think the anti pot folks use the same arguments about the good of society as the anti gay marriage and anti death with dignity folks.

[Sombeech]

there is a consistent accusation that I'm against the legalization of Marijuana, only because I'm offering countering argument points. (Same thing with Gay Marriage or any other hot topic)

I'm not against marijuana.

I'm not against marijuana

I'm not against marijuana

But if you want it legalized, the articles about kids with seizures won't do the trick because there are dozens of existing legal medications, INCLUDING EXISTING LEGAL cannabis products already.

And to push the "Mormon Church is super controlling of Utah", then when it looked like it might pass to backpedal away from that accusation like you never said it, , well that point doesn't change minds either.

You guys sure have spent a lot of time arguing against me for the merits of Marijuana when I never EVER EVER EVER said I oppose it. I've used and abused it many times, much more than the average Utahn. Those days are in the past though, but I'm still not taking a side. Explain how it's going to benefit lives where there is NO other alternative.

But I'll tell ya what, every time I'm accused of opposing it because of some suggestion that I think I'm better than others because of morals or religion, well that's just enough to make me choose a side and work against you. If we've learned anything about Trump vs Hillary, it's that the persistent labeling of conservatives as bigots and racists will only motivate them more to come out and vote. Same thing here, if we are going to be labeled as religious prudes, that's going to make me want to actually cast a vote, in the negative.

[Scott Card]

Not to keep poking you, but where is the ad hominem? Nothing in my post was really directed at you, other to ask why you care what other people do. And I do think the anti pot folks use the same arguments about the good of society as the anti gay marriage and anti death with dignity folks. I think it was all the "you's" . :)

[rockgremlin]

there is a consistent accusation that I'm against the legalization of Marijuana, only because I'm offering countering argument points. (Same thing with Gay Marriage or any other hot topic)

I'm not against marijuana.

I'm not against marijuana

I'm not against marijuana

But if you want it legalized, the articles about kids with seizures won't do the trick because there are dozens of existing legal medications, INCLUDING EXISTING LEGAL cannabis products already.

And to push the "Mormon Church is super controlling of Utah", then when it looked like it might pass to backpedal away from that accusation like you never said it, , well that point doesn't change minds either.

You guys sure have spent a lot of time arguing against me for the merits of Marijuana when I never EVER EVER EVER said I oppose it. I've used and abused it many times, much more than the average Utahn. Those days are in the past though, but I'm still not taking a side. Explain how it's going to benefit lives where there is NO other alternative.

But I'll tell ya what, every time I'm accused of opposing it because of some suggestion that I think I'm better than others because of morals or religion, well that's just enough to make me choose a side and work against you. If we've learned anything about Trump vs Hillary, it's that the persistent labeling of conservatives as bigots and racists will only motivate them more to come out and vote. Same thing here, if we are going to be labeled as religious prudes, that's going to make me want to actually cast a vote, in the negative.

Nothing to refute here.

My apologies if it felt like I was misrepresenting you.

That is all.

[uintafly]

I think it was all the "you's" . :)

rhetorical yous. :haha:

[accadacca]

Herbert calls special legislative session on medical marijuana for Monday

https://www.ksl.com/article/46438414/herbert-calls-special-legislative-session-on-medical-marijuana-for-monday

[Iceaxe]

Herbert calls special legislative session on medical marijuana for Monday

https://www.ksl.com/article/46438414/herbert-calls-special-legislative-session-on-medical-marijuana-for-monday
That's because Prop 2 is the law until they gut it. For the next 48 hours pot is actually legal for some people in the state of Utah. The sky is falling... the sky is falling....

[DirkHammergate]

This is pretty funny.... wanna be Governor.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/local/2018/12/02/two-days-before-election/

[DirkHammergate]

The main changes

The compromise bill sponsored by Hughes proposes significant changes to how medical marijuana could legally be recommended, sold and consumed. It removes a hotly contested provision allowing patients living a certain distance from a dispensary to grow up to six marijuana plants. It also narrows a controversial provision that gives a person an "affirmative defense" to marijuana use or possession charges if they can prove their medical need despite not possessing a medical cannabis card.

[accadacca]

The main changes

The compromise bill sponsored by Hughes proposes significant changes to how medical marijuana could legally be recommended, sold and consumed. It removes a hotly contested provision allowing patients living a certain distance from a dispensary to grow up to six marijuana plants. It also narrows a controversial provision that gives a person an "affirmative defense" to marijuana use or possession charges if they can prove their medical need despite not possessing a medical cannabis card.





Following the comments on Fox 13...it would seem the changes were so drastic that the LDS church needs to be taxed, run out of town and burned at the stake!

[accadacca]

Gov. Gary Herbert has signed into law a medical marijuana bill to replace the ballot initiative that voters approved on Nov. 6.

The Medical Cannabis Act was passed through both houses of the Utah Legislature during a special session Monday and signed into law Monday night.

After signing the bill, Herbert released a statement saying, in part: "This is a historic day. With the passage of the Utah Medical Cannabis Act, Utah now has the best-designed medical cannabis program in the country."

[Sombeech]

So in the end, will patients have access to Medical Marijuana? If so, that's a win, right? After all, that's what the campaigns were fighting for.

I hardly think people will be satisfied at that though.

[double moo]

I like that this passed so that it can be of benefit to those who need it. My bitch is this... legislature wont do shit about it until enough people sign a petition to get it on the ballot. Then they go into high gear to try to negotiate an alternate plan, hoping to derail the ballot initiative. At the same time the opponents go apeshit trying to slander the bill, then to try to persuade the majority to vote no on religious grounds. When the dust settles WE THE PEOPLE vote to go with the proposition. And our elected officials are flipping us the bird and doing what they believe they know is best for us. I don't really care about the specifics of the bill... or the compromise... I care that we just got screwed by the man without so much as a reach around.

I'd be just as pissed if the compromise allowed recreational pot... the issue is circumventing the Democratic voting process. Worse is that they do the special session now, not after the new crop of legislators is sworn in, not after we let it run for a bit then try to resolve the holes in the law. This is worse than "executive order" issues as the entire legislative body is in on it (except the 13 who voted against).

The lawsuits are lining up - so now we get to waste tax dollars to defend our dumbassery.

Rant over.

[rockgremlin]

I like that this passed so that it can be of benefit to those who need it. My bitch is this... legislature wont do shit about it until enough people sign a petition to get it on the ballot. Then they go into high gear to try to negotiate an alternate plan, hoping to derail the ballot initiative. At the same time the opponents go apeshit trying to slander the bill, then to try to persuade the majority to vote no on religious grounds. When the dust settles WE THE PEOPLE vote to go with the proposition. And our elected officials are flipping us the bird and doing what they believe they know is best for us. I don't really care about the specifics of the bill... or the compromise... I care that we just got screwed by the man without so much as a reach around.

I'd be just as pissed if the compromise allowed recreational pot... the issue is circumventing the Democratic voting process. Worse is that they do the special session now, not after the new crop of legislators is sworn in, not after we let it run for a bit then try to resolve the holes in the law. This is worse than "executive order" issues as the entire legislative body is in on it (except the 13 who voted against).

The lawsuits are lining up - so now we get to waste tax dollars to defend our dumbassery.

Rant over.


X2

Blatant miscarriage of the democratic process.

[Scott Card]

X2

Blatant miscarriage of the democratic process. But, this constitutional democratic republic of a state is working perfectly.

[rockgremlin]

But, this constitutional democratic republic of a state is working perfectly.

When the legislators can just do whatever they want to the Propositions that the people put forward and a majority voted for -- where's the democratic process in that?

Why even put forward a Proposition at all if the will of the people is just going to be trampled?

[Sombeech]

So help me understand, in the end will medical marijuana be available to those who need it? If so, what's the problem? That was the sole purpose, right?

I hate politics as much as the next guy, except for the memes, but from what I'm hearing from the good folks at Bogley, it sounds like this medicine will be available to those who qualify. Or is this not correct? Serious question, because I'm not reading political articles like everybody else.

[Scott Card]

Here you go, 'Beech. From KSL.com:

"Gov. Gary Herbert announced Monday evening he had signed the bill, saying Utah "now has the best-designed medical cannabis program in the country."

"Working with trained medical professionals, qualified patients in Utah will be able to receive quality-controlled cannabis products from a licensed pharmacist in medical dosage form. And this will be done in a way that prevents diversion of product into a black market."

Here is the link to the article at KSL.com. It addresses the promised lawsuits also:
https://www.ksl.com/article/46439801/gov-herbert-signs-medical-marijuana-compromise-into-law

[Sombeech]

OK so cool, the patients have a way to get this Medical Marijuana. That's the goal, right?

Just curious what the complaints are. What is the different outcome that was wanted?

Or was it secretly about recreational use, when we heard over and over and over again that it was only for medical use, that we don't need to worry?

[rockgremlin]

OK so cool, the patients have a way to get this Medical Marijuana. That's the goal, right?

Just curious what the complaints are. What is the different outcome that was wanted?

Or was it secretly about recreational use, when we heard over and over and over again that it was only for medical use, that we don't need to worry?


No it's just the fact that lawmakers can basically do whatever they want with impunity. The taxpayers did what was required of them to get the Proposition on the ballot -- they jumped through all of the required hoops, and played by all of the rules. Only to have the government basically gut the thing and install what they wanted, how they wanted it. The Proposition that was signed into law was effectively adulterated with a version nobody who voted for Prop 2 wanted. That's a travesty of the democratic process.

You make the point that patients have access to Cannabis. Well sort of. In some ways it is actually MORE difficult to access under the new rules.

Regardless, you can see why those who voted for Prop 2 might be disappointed, right?

[Sombeech]

Well I do keep hearing that it was gutted, and the voters got something completely different than what they wanted, but I guess I haven't heard of any major conclusion that is different.

The voters wanted Medical Marijuana to be available to those who need it, and it sounds like this is what they got.

If the complaint is that lawmakers got their hands all over it and changed it drastically, yes welcome to politics of ANY State. I would expect Medical Marijuana to NOT be legal to these patients.

I keep hearing Medical Marijuana will be finally available, but... but..... but..... and I'm not hearing a major groundbreaking slap in the face that robbed the voters, except the lawmakers stuck their hands in it. I've yet to hear what they screwed up though. Did any of us expect it to go through the process with nobody touching it?

[Sombeech]

I guess it sounds like being given a $20 bill but complain because it wasn't crisp.

[uintafly]

OK so cool, the patients have a way to get this Medical Marijuana. That's the goal, right?

Just curious what the complaints are. What is the different outcome that was wanted?

Or was it secretly about recreational use, when we heard over and over and over again that it was only for medical use, that we don't need to worry?

I was always up front that I thought it should be legal for recreational purposes. Hopefully this is a first step.

[rockgremlin]

I guess it sounds like being given a $20 bill but complain because it wasn't crisp.


More like being given a $20 bill and then having it taken away and replaced with $11 in nickels.

[Scott Card]

The taxpayers did what was required of them to get the Proposition on the ballot -- they jumped through all of the required hoops, and played by all of the rules. Only to have the government basically gut the thing and install what they wanted, how they wanted it. The Proposition that was signed into law was effectively adulterated with a version nobody who voted for Prop 2 wanted. That's a travesty of the democratic process.

You make the point that patients have access to Cannabis. Well sort of. In some ways it is actually MORE difficult to access under the new rules.

Regardless, you can see why those who voted for Prop 2 might be disappointed, right?

I think you are assuming too much of the voter. Many I know voted to legalize medical marijuana because the legislature wasn't doing anything. They didn't necessarily vote for the specific terms of Prop. 2. Many flat don't care that the legislature modified the Proposition because it still accomplishes the purpose of getting it into the hands of those who need it. Others I know voted so that the legislature would get on the stick and actually do something about medicinal marijuana.

As for recreational use, I think that is quite a ways off in this state.

[Sombeech]

More like being given a $20 bill and then having it taken away and replaced with $11 in nickels.Make medical marijuana available to patients = $20
It will be available to patients = $20
I still don't see where the shortage is, what is the variance? If it's that the voter really wanted to be able to grow their own and prescribe it to themselves or sell it commercially or privately, then that was never in the original proposition, right?

It's amazing how UNDER prepared the voters actually were for this to pass.

Example, imagine the patient going to see the doctor who has finally agreed to prescribe this. Now what? What does the doctor prescribe? Does the patient have seizures? If so, what is the dosage of the prescription? Is it one joint a day? Or is it oils (that are already legal, by the way)

What strain of Marijuana is prescribed? What's the follow up plan for the physician? What signs of improvements or long term plan is in place? How will the healing be measured?

Where does the patient get the medicine from? Will the local pharmacy start distributing a month of pot in those orange prescription pill bottles?

Or were we absolutely completely stupid enough to think this prop would give us the right to grow our own weed and self medicate?

Not even in Colorado does it give them the right to smoke it in public, contrary to popular belief. They are allowed to smoke but only in the privacy of their own homes.

I think a lot of people made a lot of stupid assumptions of what this meant if it passes, and when it does they think they were screwed, but in reality they got exactly what they voted for.

[rockgremlin]

^^^Valid points, Beech.

I still wonder about the patients in rural towns. I think the plan calls for 7 dispensaries in Utah...but where will those be located? Would the patients in Kanab have to drive to SLC to access a State licensed "pharmacy?" That would kinda suck.

[Iceaxe]

Denying medicine to sick people in pain because you're worried there's a chance someone might recreationally smoke pot isn't really a moral high ground.... just sayin'


:soapbox:

[Sombeech]

Denying medicine to sick people in pain because you're worried there's a chance someone might recreationally smoke pot isn't really a moral high ground.... just sayin'


:soapbox:I think it's even worse to assume this is the mindset of everybody opposing the bill.

It's also irresponsible to assume marijuana is the only solution, or even the best one for these cases.

There are legit reasons to oppose it because so much has not been considered, like the points I mentioned. Those are straight from the mouth of a pain physician I spoke to today, telling me he has turned away so many people asking for medical marijuana already because of this prop, with absolutely no idea how it will work. Literally today he has turned people away asking for marijuana prescriptions because of pain.

Morals had nothing to do with it. Zero.

[Sombeech]

If it were me, personally, and I felt some right or benefit had been stripped out of a prop I voted on, I wouldn't need to search the Internet to figure out what it was.

If it's not obvious, it must not be important to the voters. I'm not saying it's right or wrong what happened, but if I was mad as hell that a feature had been taken away, I'd sure as hell already know what it was. Or how could I possibly be angry if I didn't know what was altered?????

I'll repeat myself by saying, if medical marijuana will be legal now, the voters got what they voted for.

But some people just like to be mad.

[rockgremlin]

So your doctor turned away dozens of people asking for medical MJ...because what, opiates are better?

In the midst of an OPIADEMIC folks need options to treat their pain. I'd rather give hundreds an option to treat their pain and risk there being a few junkies out there getting high over denying hundreds of folks pain management options to preserve some imaginary moral high ground.

[accadacca]

The Cure All MAGIC drug!!!!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181205/b19dfeab619b96ae6cdc1e91da0b8e94.jpg

[Iceaxe]

^^^You left out the number 1 use of cannabis... helping ugly guys get laid.

[rockgremlin]

The Cure All MAGIC drug!!!!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181205/b19dfeab619b96ae6cdc1e91da0b8e94.jpg

Man talk about a super troll. :lol8:

You're gonna get Sombeech all triggered again.

[Sombeech]

So your doctor turned away dozens of people asking for medical MJ...because what, opiates are better?


What was the Dr going to do, honestly? Which pharmacy would he send the patient to grab the Bubba Kush strain? How many puffs a day should he write up?

Opiates are addictive, yes, and they have pros and cons. BUT... we only know this about Opiates because of the vast medical history data, which is non existent with Marijuana except that it makes you hungry and worthless to the world. Oh yeah, it cures cancer :roflol::roflol::roflol:

The problem is there is no standardized data yet for MJ. I mean what is the physician going to prescribe, really? Right now it's an absolute guessing game, taking suggestions from literal stoners on what worked well for them for a kinked neck.

Even the infamous seizure tearjerker stories, how much of which CBD product works for them, and why? What is the long term plan? NONE. ZILCH.

People were in such a hurry to legalize medical MJ that they all voted without having a single clue about how it will all work, absolutely no thought to Logistics except for "oh the tax money from weed will give more tax money to schools, think of the kids", and other far fetched stories.

But back to how Prop 2 was gutted and the voters were bent over the barrel, No they weren't. I'm still waiting for somebody to explain to me what was removed from the proposition that would have been better. NOBODY can answer this, without performing a web search for why they should be so upset :lol8: I'm still going to say it's because people wanted to legally grow their own and smoke it in public and buy from whomever they wanted, at the same time trying to convince us all it was strictly a medical marijuana bill and we shouldn't be worried at all about recreational use.

Some people just wanna be mad.

[accadacca]

Some people just wanna be mad.

Exactly. Especially if they can throw the LDS Church under the bus. Comments like, they need to “tax them” and “where is the separation of church and state” or “I hope they get sued.” All these brilliant comments without any clue what they are talking about.

[twotimer]

^^^You left out the number 1 use of cannabis... helping ugly guys get laid.Nah man...coke did a much better job at that.

[Sombeech]

Exactly. Especially if they can throw the LDS Church under the bus. Comments like, they need to “tax them” and “where is the separation of church and state” or “I hope they get sued.” All these brilliant comments without any clue what they are talking about.

:roflol:I've seen people go as far as to say the LDS Church are hypocrites because they are withholding medicine from those that need it. And then even further in the SJW camp, the church is murdering people when they die from no access to medical marijuana.

RIP Rebecca Hansen
Cause of Death - no Marijuana

And then those that just can't wait to tell us all they left the church because of the position on "life saving medicine". Oh shit, legalize, legalize! Bring these asshats back to church!

Then you remember they said they left the church over the gay parents with a kid interested in the church.

Oh no wait, no they REALLY left the church when they wouldn't give women the priesthood.

Meanwhile the church is up in arms, just complete panic upon learning how people that already weren't coming to church, will continue not coming to church.

actual MormonCam when people announce their departure:
https://media.giphy.com/media/3bLhqnqJjMNtC/giphy.gif

[rockgremlin]

Some people just wanna be mad.


Right now the only person who appears mad is you.

Just sayin'

[uintafly]

For those of you who have admitted to smoking in the past, what is your opinion of thousands of Americans having their lives ruined just because they were caught? Do you really think getting fired, going to jail and having a conviction on someone's record is a fair trade for smoking pot?

[rockgremlin]

For those of you who have admitted to smoking in the past, what is your opinion of thousands of Americans having their lives ruined just because they were caught? Do you really think getting fired, going to jail and having a conviction on someone's record is a fair trade for smoking pot?


Nope.

Additionally, those of the African-American persuasion have been particularly affected by this since it appears they have been unfairly targeted over white folks in this regard.

[Sombeech]

Right now the only person who appears mad is you.

Just sayin'


I appear mad? I'm not sure how. Lots of folks are angry because the proposition was supposedly gutted and the voters were screwed, I'm definitely not in that crowd.

I'm just curious, still, how the voters got screwed, because nobody can step up to the plate and describe what was stolen from them.

To the question uintafly asked, I don't think it's fair to go to prison for smoking marijuana. And if we look a little deeper, we will see that hardly anybody goes to jail just for possessing or smoking marijuana. It will be on the list of charges, like not wearing a seatbelt when the main offense was speeding.

People aren't going to jail primarily for marijuana. It's because they skipped bail for something else and they now have a warrant out. Just another little fib told.

[uintafly]

Best I can find is that 3.4% of the state prison population in the country are in on possession only charges, though that isn't broken down by specific drug so there is no way to tell how many are in due strictly to pot. But even if it is a small amount, it doesn't equal 0. It also doesn't account for all of the rest of the issues. I don't know about you, but if I was arrested for pot, even if I never went to jail, I would still be fired. And I'd still have a scarlet letter on my record anytime I applied for a new job. Hell, I'd say I'd personally rather spend a few months in jail than have a drug conviction on my record for the rest of my life. Still seems a harsh lesson to pay when our last 3 presidents (but not trump as far as I know) all admitted to using it in the past.

[rockgremlin]

People aren't going to jail primarily for marijuana. It's because they skipped bail for something else and they now have a warrant out. Just another little fib told.


WRONG --- Google is your friend:


Number of people arrested for a marijuana law violation in 2017: 659,700

Number of those charged with marijuana law violations who were arrested for possession only: 599,282 (90.8 percent)


Source: http://www.drugpolicy.org/issues/drug-war-statistics

[Scott Card]

Oh Uinta and Rock,

"Arrest" and jail are two completely different things. Many people don't know that being issued a citation is recorded on the official transcript as an "arrest" when it comes to marijuana and most other non-traffic charges. Simply put, being charged, or an "arrest", DOES NOT equal jail time.

Even in Utah, a marijuana ticket ("arrest") is not a big deal and on most first offenses prosecutors will offer a plea in abeyance. This means if they comply with probation the charge will be dismissed and the "arrest" can be immediately expunged. That equals no record at all. Yes, it can be time consuming and with the wrong lawyer, expensive.

Question: So if most people don't think marijuana is a big deal then wouldn't employers just look the other way? I submit that many employers DO think that marijuana is an issue of concern.

And Rock, pulling the race card to back up your argument? :nono:

[Sombeech]

You do not go to jail or prison for a seatbelt violation. But if you don't pay the Speeding ticket for which it was appended to, and you get a warrant out for your arrest, and you skip bail, and you keep avoiding it, you just might eventually go to jail. So in the same line of logic, if you don't wear a seatbelt, you go to prison.

This is the same for smoking Marijuana. I know you guys are smart enough to know that people aren't sent to prison merely for smoking marijuana. Don't make me prove y'all wrong again, it's getting old.

[rockgremlin]

You do not go to jail or prison for a seatbelt violation. But if you don't pay the Speeding ticket for which it was appended to, and you get a warrant out for your arrest, and you skip bail, and you keep avoiding it, you just might eventually go to jail. So in the same line of logic, if you don't wear a seatbelt, you go to prison.

This is the same for smoking Marijuana. I know you guys are smart enough to know that people aren't sent to prison merely for smoking marijuana. Don't make me prove y'all wrong again, it's getting old.


I'm surprised you guys don't check your facts before you make your claims. Please READ this article:

https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/sentencing-reform/war-marijuana-black-and-white

It's from a credible source, and uncovers some shocking information.

You don't have a monopoly on the truth. Read this article in its entirety and then we can resume this discussion.



P.S. Notice I didn't drag the LDS church into this most recent discussion, so if you decide to go there its on you. :bandit:

[Sombeech]

I'm surprised you guys don't check your facts before you make your claims. Please READ this article:

https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/sentencing-reform/war-marijuana-black-and-white

It's from a credible source, and uncovers some shocking information.

You don't have a monopoly on the truth. Read this article in its entirety and then we can resume this discussion.



P.S. Notice I didn't drag the LDS church into this most recent discussion, so if you decide to go there its on you. :bandit:

Like Scott says, arrests don't mean jail time, nor prison time. Plus when it says they were arrested simply for possessing marijuana, it leaves out the CRUCIAL factor of possessing marijuana while on probation. Big difference.

And another plus, the study ended almost 10 years ago, a lot has changed.

So again, simply for possessing marijuana as a first time offense, no other misdemeanors, no probation, no warrants, no other factors, you are NOT going to jail. Absolutely not. This ACLU article is the equivalent of a handgun accidentally going off on school grounds and racking it up as a school shooting.

You guys are still arguing against the big penalties for marijuana. And I'm right there with you, I think these big consequences for weed is a huge injustice. Fortunately though, it doesn't happen. :mrgreen:

You guys just need to take the win. Medical Marijuana will be available for patients. People aren't going to prison for merely smoking marijuana. The LDS Church didn't murder kids with seizures by stopping this prop. The bill wasn't gutted like people want to say it was because they still want to blame the Mormon controlled government.

Take the win! It's a victory, why aren't you guys celebrating?

[rockgremlin]

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/58473180.jpg

I'm prepared to put this baby to bed...at least until Acca comes in here trolling with more sarcasm laced images.

[goomba271]

In this day and age it's surprising to me that this issue still exists. If you wish to smoke it (or eat it), move on over here to California. I can go to a pot store, browse around, and just purchase whatever I want. I do not have to make up any BS excuse. I'm a grown adult. I do not need some fat-cat politician telling me what I can or can not do. I'll do as I please, thank you very much.

Sooner or later the rest of the country will wake up to the bigger issue at hand and leave this one behind. (Hint: It isn't about who is winning tonight's basketball game, football game, or whatever the latest smoke-screen/mirror that has been set up and may be blocking your vision.)

[Iceaxe]

Lawsuit filed over Prop 2 replacement
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=46441994&nid=148

[rockgremlin]

Lawsuit filed over Prop 2 replacement
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=46441994&nid=148


Good ole' Rocky...and his disdain for the local political establishment.


**DISCLAIMER**
I did not mention nor allude to the LDS church anywhere in this post. If you claim otherwise it's on you.

[accadacca]

Good ole' Rocky...and his disdain for the local political establishment.


**DISCLAIMER**
I did not mention nor allude to the LDS church anywhere in this post. If you claim otherwise it's on you.
https://i.imgflip.com/qv5hg.jpg

[rockgremlin]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/L0ZA3Eg0ZxM/maxresdefault.jpg

[Sombeech]

Lawsuit filed over Prop 2 replacement
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=46441994&nid=148

"Their lawsuit argues the bill "unconstitutionally undermines or entirely defeats core purposes of Proposition 2"

Umm... if the "core purpose" of prop 2 is to give medical marijuana to people, and the bill accomplishes this, how does it "ENTIRELY DEFEAT the purpose?

Nobody can answer this. Not on Social Media, not on KSL, not on Bogley. Nobody knows what rights were stripped away from the people, but they just keep repeating it.

It's time to celebrate, folks. Medical Marijuana will be available to patients. I think some people are mad because they expected it to not pass, and now they don't know what to do with all of their protest signs.

[DirkHammergate]

https://i.imgflip.com/qv5hg.jpg

Imma gonna start following the Prophet on this.... super wise, in touch with reality, talks to Jesus all the time verbatim, apparently.

Dirk has been Born Again!!! I do believe I need a baptism... Sombeech?? I am a willing soul?

[rockgremlin]

The problem they will be facing is that Utah is completely within their rights to alter Prop 2 because it is written into Utah's constitution that they can lawfully change propositions. Read on:

Under Utah law, any initiative passed by a statewide vote can be amended or changed by the Legislature once it becomes law. Proposition 2 is really no different, it’s just getting special attention. Utah is one of 11 states that does not place restrictions on the Legislature when it comes to amending citizen ballot initiatives.

Source: https://www.ksl.com/article/46422829/heres-how-and-why-the-legislature-could-change-proposition-2--even-if-it-passes

[accadacca]

Wait a minute...

I thought it was the miracle drug?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181207/4ad3ab1f2a2e5446c8198f8d80bc7b73.jpg

[rockgremlin]

Wait a minute...

I thought it was the miracle drug?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181207/4ad3ab1f2a2e5446c8198f8d80bc7b73.jpg

TROLL ALERT.


Btw, there were a bunch of posts that just disappeared from this thread.

Why? I thought Bogley didn't moderate because we're not intolerant, etc, etc.

What gives?:ne_nau:

[twotimer]

Yeah...is there some kind of glitch? My post here from last night is gone. No swear words, no naked women.

[accadacca]

I’m not sure what happened. Looks like a glitch. I was deleting my own post with a link to the lawsuit article because Ice already shared it. Looks like a few others got deleted by accident. Sorry about that. I was using my phone and must have hit the wrong post.

We can’t blame this one on Mary Jane legislation.

[Sombeech]

We deleted some points that I had no rebuttal for, sorry about that.

[rockgremlin]

We deleted some points that I had no rebuttal for, sorry about that.

:roflol:

If ya can't beat em, delete em! :lol8:

[DirkHammergate]

We deleted some points that I had no rebuttal for, sorry about that.

Baptize me Brother Beech

[accadacca]

Marlboro maker places $1.8 billion bet on marijuana

Consumers are expected to spend $57 billion per year worldwide on legal cannabis by 2027, according to Arcview Market Research, a cannabis-focused investment firm. In North America, that spending is expected to grow from $9.2 billion in 2017 to $47.3 billion in 2027.

https://www.ksl.com/article/46442606/marlboro-maker-places-24-billion-bet-on-marijuana

[Iceaxe]

Here is the problem with not legalizing drugs....

Cruelty of El Chapo's Sinaloa cartel knows no bounds: Beheadings by chainsaw, body parts strewn in the streets

https://www.foxnews.com/world/cruelty-of-el-chapos-sinaloa-cartel-knows-no-bounds-beheadings-by-chainsaw-body-parts-strewn-in-the-streets

[DirkHammergate]

Baptize me Brother Beech

Never mind....

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181211/f863f506f252ed13cef988a15ec1988b.jpg

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/945be1ed6c7c1d1580fbe12cf76a34ac.jpg

[Iceaxe]

There are so many pitfalls to buying "legal" marijuana right now there is no way in hell I'd do it. If I were a doper I'd still be buying on the down low.

FWIW: in the near future I expect the government to denie the purchase of a firearm to anyone who has purchased marijuana.

Climb-Utah.com

[rockgremlin]

FWIW: in the near future I expect the government to denie the purchase of a firearm to anyone who has purchased marijuana.


As well they should. Marijuana is the most dangerous and addictive drug in America.

My uncle did three Marijuanas a few years ago and now he's completely brain dead. Just wandering the streets like the Walking Dead.

Sad.

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181221/855aef65d9bde384445bb94630073d22.jpg

[Iceaxe]

Interesting read on marijuana sales in NV and Wendover. One stat that jumped out at me was the state made one billion dollars in taxes last year. That's a pretty healthy number.

https://fox13now.com/2018/12/26/west-wendover-formally-adopts-recreational-marijuana-sales-ordinance-gives-permit-to-dispensary/

Climb-Utah.com

[Sombeech]

For some "unpopular" news regarding the lofty expectations of massive tax revenue, here are some articles:
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1SQJL_enUS825US825&ei=oAYlXNL3F8WPjwTD7qCoCg&q=colorado+marijuana+tax+revenue+false+expectation s&oq=colorado+marijuana+tax+revenue+false+expectatio ns&gs_l=psy-ab.3...134747.136510..136633...0.0..0.149.1093.0j9 ......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.E85-hZ0UXrc

It seems Marijuana sales aren't holding up to the promises to resolve huge state spending deficits.

It's also an extremely poor assumption to compare tax revenues from neighboring states with Marijuana sales. If Utah legalizes, some expect to mirror Colorado or Nevada tax revenue. Not even close. Why would people travel to Utah just to buy Marijuana when the other states have it? Colorado and Nevada have higher revenue because people are coming in from out of state to buy it. There would be an initial spike, sure, everybody coming to check it out. Then it would fizzle out.

[uintafly]

You probably wouldn't get a ton of income from people coming just for teh pot, but I bet a lot of out of state skiers choose Colorado over Utah for that. You can recapture that market.

And if the liquor taxes are any indication, there is a healthy market for it.

[accadacca]

Wow, bring on the pot I guess...

Charges: Utah man rams school bus to get away from Satan

After he was arrested, Diediker allegedly told investigators he had smoked "dab" earlier that day, which is a concentrated dose of cannabis extract. Inside Diediker's wrecked truck, which had to be towed, police found dab, according to charging documents.

https://www.ksl.com/article/46456713/charges-utah-man-rams-school-bus-to-get-away-from-satan

[rockgremlin]

^^^"Dab" is to marijuana as Everclear is to alcohol. If you're smoking dab you're into the extremely potent stuff. It's by no means mainstream.

[Iceaxe]

...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190110/b21e80e6689aea8f77fd6d2715cba9ad.jpg

Climb-Utah.com

[rockgremlin]

...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190110/b21e80e6689aea8f77fd6d2715cba9ad.jpg

Climb-Utah.com


This is what everyone who is blindly naive about all things drug related envisions what marijuana looks like. LMAO :roflol:


Yup, ya gotta cook that pot in a spoon before you slam it back with some Red Bull. That's what the kids call a "Slow Ball." :lol8:

[twotimer]

This is what everyone who is blindly naive about all things drug related envisions what marijuana looks like. LMAO :roflol:


Yup, ya gotta cook that pot in a spoon before you slam it back with some Red Bull. That's what the kids call a "Slow Ball." :lol8:Actually, that's how you cook up a dab. Kind of a poor man's way. I know this because a girlfriend of mine a few years ago got into this. That's why I broke up with her.

[Iceaxe]

Actually, that's how you cook up a dab. Kind of a poor man's way. I know this because a girlfriend of mine a few years ago got into this. That's why I broke up with her.

I'm so uncool.... I have no clue what dab even is.

I've honestly snorted coke off a strippers ass... but that was back in the Miami Vice days.

Climb-Utah.com

[twotimer]

Dab is like smoking a gooey hash. you've got to heat it up real good. Most use a small blowtorch, glass bong, heavy dense smoke.

You can do it with a spoon and a water bottle if you don't have a "rig".

Seeing a few of my friends going heavy with this stuff is why pot has fallen out of favor with me. Like seeing someone consume more harder alcohol.

[Sombeech]

This is a dab

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GRpJk1uERKA/maxresdefault.jpg

[uintafly]

Funny story about the dab. I was coaching a baseball team of 5 year olds, and the kids loved to do the dab. I had a parent come up and tell me that it was "disrespectful to the game" to let the kids do that on the field. I politely told him he should have volunteered his own time if he was that interested in the small details. Of course, being the a-hole that I am, we did a whole team dab after the next game.

[rockgremlin]

Funny story about the dab. I was coaching a baseball team of 5 year olds, and the kids loved to do the dab. I had a parent come up and tell me that it was "disrespectful to the game" to let the kids do that on the field. I politely told him he should have volunteered his own time if he was that interested in the small details. Of course, being the a-hole that I am, we did a whole team dab after the next game.

:roflol::roflol::roflol:

My hero.

[Iceaxe]

Utahns ask Utah Supreme Court to restore voter-approved medical marijuana law
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=46517738&nid=960

[accadacca]

PTA President-elect Of School Asked To Resign After Taking CBD Oil

“I am the president-elect in our PTA,” said Washburn, who lives in Eagle Mountain. Make that former president-elect of her local PTA.

After telling friends, “I guess someone told the principal that I had taken marijuana or something.”

Soon after, the Utah PTA asked to meet with her.

“They needed me to turn in my resignation, and I was shocked,” Washburn said.

https://ksltv.com/415779/pta-president-elect-of-school-asked-to-resign-after-taking-cbd-oil/

[rockgremlin]

^^^Reefer Madness at its finest.