LDS Church Meeting Times

[DirkHammergate]

This just in, LDS Church Meeting Times reduced by an hour.

Dallin Oaks still hates anyone remotely different.

[rockgremlin]

Dallin Oaks still hates anyone remotely different.

Elaborate, please.

[Sombeech]

Gotta love it when critics of the church can't wait to post topics discussed during conference, before it's even over :haha:

[DirkHammergate]

I think the meeting reduction time is a great thing actually. Long over due.

[rockgremlin]

I think the meeting reduction time is a great thing actually. Long over due.

Completely sidestepped my question.

[DirkHammergate]

Elaborate, please.

Oh he just played bad cop to Deiter's Good Cop. I found it odd that Deiter gave a pretty good speech about less active members "coming back" and they "need them" while Oaks was casting out a very small net. Deiter called himself a German Shepard too, that made even me laugh.

Nothing nobody doesn't know anyway... https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/10/06/mormon-leader-dallin-h/

[DirkHammergate]

90867

[Sombeech]

Oh he just played bad cop to Deiter's Good Cop. I found it odd that Deiter gave a pretty good speech about less active members "coming back" and they "need them" while Oaks was casting out a very small net. Deiter called himself a German Shepard too, that made even me laugh.

Nothing nobody doesn't know anyway... https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/10/06/mormon-leader-dallin-h/

Wait, so you were watching LDS conference?

Or did you scour the internet for articles about LDS conference and wait to be offended?

[accadacca]

The German Shepherd

https://www.instagram.com/p/BopYSphHLWg/

https://www.instagram.com/p/BopYza8nFqK/

[DirkHammergate]

Wait, so you were watching LDS conference?

Or did you scour the internet for articles about LDS conference and wait to be offended?

Yeah, I watched the first part where they reduced meeting times and heard about Oaks via my Brother. I was picking up some Pho during Deiter's speech cause I'd been listening to KSL Friday (Cavanaugh stuff) and it was just on. That crack made me laugh plus he seems pretty reasonable by comparison to the others. I like to keep abreast their moving target to keep members from leaving.

[DirkHammergate]

Yeah, I watched the first part where they reduced meeting times and heard about Oaks via my Brother. I was picking up some Pho during Deiter's speech cause I'd been listening to KSL Friday (Cavanaugh stuff) and it was just on. That crack made me laugh plus he seems pretty reasonable by comparison to the others. I like to keep abreast their moving target to keep members from leaving.

I can't stomach more than 20 minutes though, they're the same talks I heard growing up 35 years ago.

My Brother is really active, Elder's Quorum prez in his new ward in Holladay, he moved in and 3 weeks later they called him cause he's pretty sharp along with his wife. I was like "dude, what's up with that??" and he's like "basically we're the youngest couple in the ward by 25 years..." He's 55. Also he stays pretty abreast of anything the churchs says about the LGBTQ community as his daughter was one of the first to marry her same sex partner in Utah. He was the one who sent my that tweet meme yesterday after conference. Not an Oaks guy is he.

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181008/dbd79272997b0c05d918a0c7e7ce6190.jpg

[rockgremlin]

90867

Yeah I get it. I cringe every time Oaks takes the stand. Just very polarizing and lacking empathy.

Maybe it's a generational thing or maybe it's just his style, I don't know.

[Sombeech]

I must admit, I missed Oaks' talk, and I haven't gone out and Googled something to get offended over.

Can somebody tell me the most offensive thing he said, without posting a big link for me to read? Can you tell me what you found offensive without googling it?

Just curious, as I missed it and I haven't heard much about it.

[rockgremlin]

^^^ Basically he minimizes the issues surrounding LBGT as "gender confusion."

Anything that has to do with LBGT is unapologetically and unequivocally an affront to God and a very grave sin.

[Sombeech]

I can sympathize that it's a tough thing to hear, that the Church isn't going to budge on accepting homosexual activity.

On one hand, somebody, probably Oaks, is the guy to remind the church members of this, just in case a lot of people are getting their hopes up because of some recent facebook polls. If it's not stated clearly, people are going to wonder if the church will start to get lenient.

On the other hand, and I haven't looked through any of his talk yet, but I'll bet he stated that we should show love, kindness and/or respect towards those with same sex attraction.

There are plenty of people, billions in fact, that will never join the church. We will never be told by any church authority that we should treat them any different.

One of these days it'll be time to stop getting shocked at a policy that has never changed. But nah, next General Conference in 6 months, all the very same people will be like "oh I can't believe they think homosexuality is a sin, I just can't believe they would say that". And then in a year, and then in 18 months..... and the church will be called hateful bigots and then we'll all move on to the next hot political topic that week.

[rockgremlin]

Not expecting a policy change. May as well expect the sun not to rise.

And not "shocked" that homosexuality is a sin. Just merely pointing out that it is an extremely sensitive subject, and one that is very likely to offend a very large group of people no matter how it's addressed.

This subject hits very close to home, so I guess you can lump me into that group of people you think are too sensitive.

[oldno7]

I can't stomach more than 20 minutes though, they're the same talks I heard growing up 35 years ago.

My Brother is really active, Elder's Quorum prez in his new ward in Holladay, he moved in and 3 weeks later they called him cause he's pretty sharp along with his wife. I was like "dude, what's up with that??" and he's like "basically we're the youngest couple in the ward by 25 years..." He's 55. Also he stays pretty abreast of anything the churchs says about the LGBTQ community as his daughter was one of the first to marry her same sex partner in Utah. He was the one who sent my that tweet meme yesterday.

So--your family has a history of meme:ne_nau:(kinda thought so)


On a more serious note;

Why does the lgbqt community feel they have a right to be in a church that doesn't accept them?

This is akin to trying to drive square pegs into round holes and then yelling at the sky because they don't fit.

Wouldn't it be more sensical to find or create their own method of worship based on those traits rather than trying to force them on a un willing group(square peg/round hole)

This seems very similar to the boy scouts being forced to accept girls, the group didn't want them.

Why is there a need to create the hate and drama.

Seems like it would be more fun to go up big cottonwood with a group of like minded individuals and praise and honor whomever/whatever they want, then sing kumbaya.

But noo, lets go down and march on temple square and be spiteful and hateful, yea that sounds like way more fun.

Nope--I ain't mormon/LDS or whichever is the currently correct name.

Just a follower of the church of logic and reason.

(for the meme's sake, we'll pretend the old guy is an L--no, that won't work, guys love being the L, he's a G, yep, old guy yelling at cloud is a G.)

[Sombeech]

I'm definitely sensitive to it as well, I've got 3 gay family members and several gay friends, and a few more that I talk to once in a while.

The thing is, these messages about treating them with respect and kindness are being shared all year long. If we choose to only listen to it once every 6 months, it might come across as a bit blunt. These topics are being discussed on a weekly basis, articles written, talks given, broadcasts, they are happening all year long. But those of us that have minimal contact with the church will only read about it every 6 months in the headlines, which have been worded to get 'dem clicks.

The church has donated money and worked to gain some relationships with LBGT groups, but these things aren't in the headlines. The church even had a presence in the Pride parades. Without googling, I can't remember, but they may have even been in the actual parade. The church wants to build this relationship.

It's similar in a way, how the LDS church works with other religions, Christian and Non, building relationships and working toward common goals. They aren't trying to convert, and they don't expect to change any minds, but true "open mindedness" includes accepting people for how they are, and not demanding that they change.

The church isn't demanding ANYBODY change, they just clearly say this is what we believe, you're welcome to go our way or not. Whatever you choose, we can still be friendly. The other side, however, is demanding every damned day that the church changes.

[Sombeech]

Think of it this way, and forget if it sounds blunt for just a minute and tell me if I'm wrong.

The LDS Church says you are welcome to live a certain lifestyle, and our program is not for you if you choose that path. We will still treat you with respect, we can still be friends and family.

But that is much more tolerant that the other side, you must agree. If they are demanding that the LDS Church change it's rules to include a majority of people that have zero interest in joining anyways, you must see this is the definition of intolerance.

Demanding somebody change because they do not think like you, is intolerance. The LDS Church is not demanding ANYBODY to change their lifestyle. They simply say go your own way and we will happily keep our same rules.

When I hear somebody tell me how the Mormons tell them not to drink alcohol, I can't think of a single person that has ever told any of my friends that they shouldn't drink alcohol. Not a single one. People say the church has these demands of people, to tell them what to do, and it just doesn't happen. The church doesn't tell you what to do. The church lets you do whatever the hell you want, go your own way, but if you want to participate with us, here are the rules we have for our group.

[twotimer]

Oldno7's post nails it...along with that Libertarian type mantra that I have that says "Don't like it, go somewhere else".

If one goes thru life expecting other people to do what they would do, one will be very disappointed.

Why broadcast the sex stuff? Anybody out there can boink a rock for all I care. If the ones that act like dumbasses would knock it off, perhaps they'd get more respect.

[DirkHammergate]

Oldno7's post nails it...along with that Libertarian type mantra that I have that says "Don't like it, go somewhere else".

If one goes thru life expecting other people to do what they would do, one will be very disappointed.

Why broadcast the sex stuff? Anybody out there can boink a rock for all I care. If the ones that act like dumbasses would knock it off, perhaps they'd get more respect.

But that’s really not how it works, many LGBTQ members, yes they are still members, have some sort of deep seeded ties or feelings about the church. It’s a real quandary for them. Nobody is equipped to deal with membership that is different and still wanting to be apart of it. I get the argument about just moving on, I did easily. Letting go was easy for me. I’m not about to speak as to why they want to be accepted but it clearly upsets them and it’s spills into more modern families.

When I think something is bunk I tend to scoff at it and walk away. Then again I did listen to Russell and a bit of the German. Missed out on the stop saying Mormon stuff though

[DirkHammergate]

Why broadcast the sex stuff? Anybody out there can boink a rock for all I care. If the ones that act like dumbasses would knock it off, perhaps they'd get more respect.

A Rock seems rough boink but yeah. I’d lead with a gospel of Love, you know, like Jesus did??

[DirkHammergate]

On one hand, somebody, probably Oaks, is the guy to remind the church members of this, just in case a lot of people are getting their hopes up because of some recent facebook polls. If it's not stated clearly, people are going to wonder if the church will start to get lenient.

On the other hand, and I haven't looked through any of his talk yet, but I'll bet he stated that we should show love, kindness and/or respect towards those with same sex attraction.

True on the first point, Oaks is the point man for Oaks.

On the talk, don't bother Brother.

[DirkHammergate]

One of these days it'll be time to stop getting shocked at a policy that has never changed. But nah, next General Conference in 6 months, all the very same people will be like "oh I can't believe they think homosexuality is a sin, I just can't believe they would say that". And then in a year, and then in 18 months..... and the church will be called hateful bigots and then we'll all move on to the next hot political topic that week.

Yep, that's why the German Shepard needs to take over. I'm telling you, this biz is ending fast. Maybe not in Utah but everywhere else. I actually like Nelson but when you fixate of never saying Mormon again? Isn't that a little desperate or weird?

#GermanShepard

[DirkHammergate]

#ServeMeCoffeeandbagels
#Inthecultrualhall
#Imightcomeback
#takeitdown2morehours
#prollynot
#letsgoUnitarian
#meh

[Sombeech]

On the talk, don't bother Brother.

Well it seemed to make an impression on you, I was just curious what he said.

[DirkHammergate]

Well it seemed to make an impression on you, I was just curious what he said.

Look it up, I’m just going on my older brothers word. Blood is thicker than water. I’m pretty sure you’re fighting an Oaks battle you can’t win. Bother if you want to Brother, you’re best served spending your time shooting drone footage. Peace, I’m sleeping.

[Sombeech]

I was reading some Reddit threads somebody pointed me to, they were discussing my recent viral video, somebody had posted it there. When they said it was in Utah, there were a few people that said it's a nice place to live once you can get over all of the people saying you're going to hell for not being Mormon.

Why do people lie about this? Nobody told these people they are going to hell for not being Mormon, especially when they just moved into the state. So we can see how there are a lot of little fibs out there, how oppressive the Mormons are, telling gays they need to do this or that. I've heard non Mormons tell me, that Mormons teach each other to not talk to non Mormons.

The sad part is, when there is a subject as truly sensitive as homosexuality in Utah, all of the other lies about how oppressive the Mormons are to others, really just muck everything else up that might be serious. Did you know you can still attend church meetings every Sunday even if you are openly gay? Did you know if you were openly gay, you would have an overwhelming number of ward members making an effort to come and say hi to you and make you feel welcome at church? Of course, it goes both ways, pun intended, if you're an asshole, maybe people won't feel welcome saying hi to you. When I go say hi to somebody, I don't confirm their sexuality first, and neither do most people out there.

No Mormon is telling you not to drink coffee. No Mormon is telling their kids not to play with your kids because they aren't Mormon. No Mormon is excluding you from neighborhood BBQs because you aren't Mormon. And no Mormon is taught - EVER- to treat anybody with any kind of disrespect because they are gay.

If they do, it's because they're an asshole, not because they are Mormon. We all know this though, I'm not shedding light on anything new, but sometimes we just wanna be mad.

[DirkHammergate]

I was reading some Reddit threads somebody pointed me to, they were discussing my recent viral video, somebody had posted it there. When they said it was in Utah, there were a few people that said it's a nice place to live once you can get over all of the people saying you're going to hell for not being Mormon.

Why do people lie about this? Nobody told these people they are going to hell for not being Mormon, especially when they just moved into the state. So we can see how there are a lot of little fibs out there, how oppressive the Mormons are, telling gays they need to do this or that. I've heard non Mormons tell me, that Mormons teach each other to not talk to non Mormons.

The sad part is, when there is a subject as truly sensitive as homosexuality in Utah, all of the other lies about how oppressive the Mormons are to others, really just muck everything else up that might be serious. Did you know you can still attend church meetings every Sunday even if you are openly gay? Did you know if you were openly gay, you would have an overwhelming number of ward members making an effort to come and say hi to you and make you feel welcome at church? Of course, it goes both ways, pun intended, if you're an asshole, maybe people won't feel welcome saying hi to you. When I go say hi to somebody, I don't confirm their sexuality first, and neither do most people out there.

No Mormon is telling you not to drink coffee. No Mormon is telling their kids not to play with your kids because they aren't Mormon. No Mormon is excluding you from neighborhood BBQs because you aren't Mormon. And no Mormon is taught - EVER- to treat anybody with any kind of disrespect because they are gay.

If they do, it's because they're an asshole, not because they are Mormon. We all know this though, I'm not shedding light on anything new, but sometimes we just wanna be mad.

Anyone want this??

[DirkHammergate]

Anyone want this??
So many question marks

[DirkHammergate]

Go thee back to Reddit Somebeech saith the Lord

[Iceaxe]

Letting go was easy for me.

ROFLMAO

Yeah, I can see it was.

[devo_stevo]

For anyone that didn't catch it, he restated the part of the proclamation to the world on families where it talks about gender being eternal.

Basically, he went all Ben Shapiro about it. Said that if you're born female or male, that's what you are forever.

[jman]

I was reading some Reddit threads somebody pointed me to, they were discussing my recent viral video, somebody had posted it there. When they said it was in Utah, there were a few people that said it's a nice place to live once you can get over all of the people saying you're going to hell for not being Mormon.

Why do people lie about this? Nobody told these people they are going to hell for not being Mormon, especially when they just moved into the state. So we can see how there are a lot of little fibs out there, how oppressive the Mormons are, telling gays they need to do this or that. I've heard non Mormons tell me, that Mormons teach each other to not talk to non Mormons.

The sad part is, when there is a subject as truly sensitive as homosexuality in Utah, all of the other lies about how oppressive the Mormons are to others, really just muck everything else up that might be serious. Did you know you can still attend church meetings every Sunday even if you are openly gay? Did you know if you were openly gay, you would have an overwhelming number of ward members making an effort to come and say hi to you and make you feel welcome at church? Of course, it goes both ways, pun intended, if you're an asshole, maybe people won't feel welcome saying hi to you. When I go say hi to somebody, I don't confirm their sexuality first, and neither do most people out there.

No Mormon is telling you not to drink coffee. No Mormon is telling their kids not to play with your kids because they aren't Mormon. No Mormon is excluding you from neighborhood BBQs because you aren't Mormon. And no Mormon is taught - EVER- to treat anybody with any kind of disrespect because they are gay.

If they do, it's because they're an asshole, not because they are Mormon. We all know this though, I'm not shedding light on anything new, but sometimes we just wanna be mad.

X2.

It’s a strategy former members use all the time: poisoning the well. I have two former members in my family and I and (hopefully) the rest of the family never tell the other siblings of what to do or not to do. We don’t call on them to say prayers or anything similar. Sure, when they are in our house we are gonna say a prayer, but so what, it’s my house. If I went to your house and ask me to bow my head while you pray to the spaghetti monster, then sure I’ll be quiet and won’t rebel or snicker, etc.

At work, my cube mate next to me is a bishop of a family ward and the other cube-mate is a recent grad from Penn state and loves, loves, loves the f-word. Not once, has the bishop asked him to mind his language or tell him he’s damned or anything similar. Do you know what he does do? Laugh at his jokes, says hi to him all the time, doesn’t talk religion with him unless he brings it up...you know, actually be a great friendly person to him.

Remember when the so called “gay policy” was leaked on reddit and former members where doing memes galore about it? There were some pretty nasty ones out there with pictures of Jesus and little kids with the captions of “ewwww...get away from me you little fa**ots!” That was extremely blasphemous to me. But to your point, a person who didn’t know better thought that’s how Jesus and members thought and how we should treat homosexuality. THEY made it way worse for everyone. If you were gay and read that particular meme from that former-member you would be even more crushed and fall into a deeper depression. That’s messed up.

It would be similar to a discussion where you just told your friend that you are lonely and depressed and needed help or something and then your so-called “friend” would respond with “yea, that’s right man! You are alone. So very alone. Nobody loves you or cares about you. Everyone hates you. “. That’s what that meme reminded me of. I would even dare call it iniquitous.


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[tallsteve]

A little side topic: have you heard the conspiracy theory that the reason Pres. Nelson asked all women of the church (in the General Women's meeting Saturday night) to go on a 10 day social media "fast" is because Pres. Nelson is such a Trump and Kavanaugh lover that he doesn't want LDS women bashing and wailing on social media about the Kavanaugh confirmation? Seriously. This is what a former LDS member friend posted on facebook. The supporting and "Right on" comments from her like-minded friends made me want to gag. The tin hat mentality is strong with them. My friend is always depressed, negative and angry and doesn't understand why no one wants to hang around with her anymore. I don't get people who leave the church but can't leave it alone.

[tallsteve]

Back on the original topic: I've said this before- I do musical theater so I have many, many gay friends. From what I saw on social media after Elder Oaks' talk, my gay friends weren't "offended" until my so called active LDS member gay promoting friends told them they needed to be offended.

[devo_stevo]

A little side topic: have you heard the conspiracy theory that the reason Pres. Nelson asked all women of the church (in the General Women's meeting Saturday night) to go on a 10 day social media "fast" is because Pres. Nelson is such a Trump and Kavanaugh lover that he doesn't want LDS women bashing and wailing on social media about the Kavanaugh confirmation? Seriously. This is what a former LDS member friend posted on facebook. The supporting and "Right on" comments from her like-minded friends made me want to gag. The tin hat mentality is strong with them. My friend is always depressed, negative and angry and doesn't understand why no one wants to hang around with her anymore. I don't get people who leave the church but can't leave it alone.
That's a new one. I did hear all about a what a sexist and misogynistic thing that is that an "old white man" would only ask the women to do that, and not everyone.

Those old white men really hate free will and freedom of thought. It couldn't possibly be that social media and media in general is becoming a very ugly and divisive place to spend our time lately. It would probably do us all a lot of good to unplug for a while from all that crap to be honest.

[jman]

Back on the original topic: I've said this before- I do musical theater so I have many, many gay friends. From what I saw on social media after Elder Oaks' talk, my gay friends weren't "offended" until my so called active LDS member gay promoting friends told them they needed to be offended.

Exactly. That’s my entire point with the meme explanation above. You just said it in one paragraph. Lol.

People who are actual members and still want to be members, didn’t hear anything they didn’t know already. Nothing new, just re-iterating the point of our belief system currently.











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[rockgremlin]

A little side topic: have you heard the conspiracy theory that the reason Pres. Nelson asked all women of the church (in the General Women's meeting Saturday night) to go on a 10 day social media "fast" is because Pres. Nelson is such a Trump and Kavanaugh lover that he doesn't want LDS women bashing and wailing on social media about the Kavanaugh confirmation?


Whu......???

Never heard that. Sounds pretty out there. I highly doubt Nelson is a huge fan of Mr. "Grab-them-in-the-p***y."

[DirkHammergate]

A little side topic: have you heard the conspiracy theory that the reason Pres. Nelson asked all women of the church (in the General Women's meeting Saturday night) to go on a 10 day social media "fast" is because Pres. Nelson is such a Trump and Kavanaugh lover that he doesn't want LDS women bashing and wailing on social media about the Kavanaugh confirmation? Seriously. This is what a former LDS member friend posted on facebook. The supporting and "Right on" comments from her like-minded friends made me want to gag. The tin hat mentality is strong with them. My friend is always depressed, negative and angry and doesn't understand why no one wants to hang around with her anymore. I don't get people who leave the church but can't leave it alone.

I thought it was the youth that were to "fast" on social media. That explains my Aunt posting "I'm going to take a fast on social media" post on Sunday morning. Social media does blow...

[Sombeech]

A little side topic: have you heard the conspiracy theory that the reason Pres. Nelson asked all women of the church (in the General Women's meeting Saturday night) to go on a 10 day social media "fast" is because Pres. Nelson is such a Trump and Kavanaugh lover that he doesn't want LDS women bashing and wailing on social media about the Kavanaugh confirmation? Seriously. This is what a former LDS member friend posted on facebook. The supporting and "Right on" comments from her like-minded friends made me want to gag. The tin hat mentality is strong with them. My friend is always depressed, negative and angry and doesn't understand why no one wants to hang around with her anymore. I don't get people who leave the church but can't leave it alone.

I'll bet it's just to get them off of their phones and back into the kitchen!

[uintafly]

I was reading some Reddit threads somebody pointed me to, they were discussing my recent viral video, somebody had posted it there. When they said it was in Utah, there were a few people that said it's a nice place to live once you can get over all of the people saying you're going to hell for not being Mormon.

Why do people lie about this? Nobody told these people they are going to hell for not being Mormon, especially when they just moved into the state. So we can see how there are a lot of little fibs out there, how oppressive the Mormons are, telling gays they need to do this or that. I've heard non Mormons tell me, that Mormons teach each other to not talk to non Mormons.

The sad part is, when there is a subject as truly sensitive as homosexuality in Utah, all of the other lies about how oppressive the Mormons are to others, really just muck everything else up that might be serious. Did you know you can still attend church meetings every Sunday even if you are openly gay? Did you know if you were openly gay, you would have an overwhelming number of ward members making an effort to come and say hi to you and make you feel welcome at church? Of course, it goes both ways, pun intended, if you're an asshole, maybe people won't feel welcome saying hi to you. When I go say hi to somebody, I don't confirm their sexuality first, and neither do most people out there.

No Mormon is telling you not to drink coffee. No Mormon is telling their kids not to play with your kids because they aren't Mormon. No Mormon is excluding you from neighborhood BBQs because you aren't Mormon. And no Mormon is taught - EVER- to treat anybody with any kind of disrespect because they are gay.

If they do, it's because they're an asshole, not because they are Mormon. We all know this though, I'm not shedding light on anything new, but sometimes we just wanna be mad.

I'd say you're painting with a awful big brush to say that stuff never happens. Probably a lot less often now, but when I was growing up I had several Mormon friends who weren't allowed to hang out with non Mormon's. I grew up of the faith so I was exempted from the ban. What I find in my neighborhood now though is the opposite. Probably once a month or so I'll be chatting with a neighbor and at some point they will throw in the "Hey, we'd love to see you at church next Sunday" comment. Doesn't bother me but it is pretty funny. I am guessing that since my name in on the membership rolls and I am such a friendly SOB that I am the local project family.

[DirkHammergate]

I don't get people who leave the church but can't leave it alone.

I'm sure there is a doctoral dissertation waiting in the works for it. It's certainly a thing, seems more so with Mormons than Catholics per say. Maybe its level of commitment required, being told the origin story since birth and when that comes crashing down it shatters their belief system to a core. I dunno, that's just a guess, I don't claim to know. I just find Mormonism pretty fascinating on a social level.

[DirkHammergate]

Probably once a month or so I'll be chatting with a neighbor and at some point they will throw in the "Hey, we'd love to see you at church next Sunday" comment. Doesn't bother me but it is pretty funny. I am guessing that since my name in on the membership rolls and I am such a friendly SOB that I am the local project family.

You've been Ministered to. My next door neighbors Minister me once a week, I give them all my extra garden veggies.

Ministering = Being a good neighbor

[twotimer]

I like Mormon guys. I have a lot of canyoneering friends that are Mormon. They're well mannered and nice...they don't cuss or act like cads. Quite frankly, I feel compelled to temper my rather crass personality when I'm with them. That's a good thing.

[Sombeech]

I'd say you're painting with a awful big brush to say that stuff never happens.
Yeah and I'm going to be so bold as to stand by my statement.

It sounds nice, saying Mormons tell people not to drink coffee, but it just doesn't happen. It doesn't. There might be the odd duck out there, I mean anything can happen, there could be a guy pulling his pants down and crossing the street, saying it's because he's Mormon. But we all know that Mormons aren't walking up to anybody during a drink and saying you're going to hell because you're drinking beer. It does NOT happen, but I've heard plenty of lies, saying crap like that does happen. Nope.


Probably a lot less often now, but when I was growing up I had several Mormon friends who weren't allowed to hang out with non Mormon's.
I don't doubt this happens, but it's not because Mormons practice this, it's because the parent is an asshole. A parent forcing their kids to exclude somebody because they aren't Mormon is bad parenting.

My son's 3 best friends are non Mormon. My best friend growing up 40 years ago was non Mormon. Not once was I told not to play with him. Did my parents ask if he was Mormon? Sure, but just as a general interest in who I'm hanging out with. They would ask if they go to church. I would say No. Then they would ask, Is he a good kid? I'd say yes, and that was that.

If a kid is excluded, it's not because he's not Mormon. But this is the jump to conclusions assumption. Maybe the kid is a straight up weirdo. Maybe they have nothing in common. Maybe they play Pokemon and the other kids play Minecraft.

I've heard it so many damned times, that "my kid has no friends because he's not Mormon" and it's because the parents tell their kids not to play with my kid. It's false, it doesn't happen, and it's one big giant assumption that is dead wrong. The parents need to step out of their box and go talk to the other parents, and set up a play date or whatever. Introduce your kids. They need to stop being a victim and do what's right for their kids, and meet up with the parents. They'd be very surprised to find out that they aren't all Mormon either, they rarely are. So it's one big assumption and they've let it eat them up inside at the expense of their kids' childhood.

If there's a group that excludes 1 kid, it's easy to say the Mormons aren't inclusive. But you know what, nowadays, more often than not, the 1 kid excluded is Mormon, and the group is non Mormon. That's the way it is in my neighborhood, a majority are non Mormon. Most of my kids' friends are non Mormon. So I'll say it one more time, the idea that kids are excluded because of a Mormon clique, it just isn't true.

[rockgremlin]

OK Sombeech....you sure are desperate to convince everybody that Mormons are genuinely great people. It's almost like you're trying to destroy a long standing stereotype that Mormons are categorically judgmental and exclusionary. I think the majority of folks on here would agree with everything you've said so far, but stereotypes exist for a reason. They aren't just dreamed up out of the blue for no reason without any context.

Mormons are fundamentally people...and people by their very nature are selfish and prideful. There are plenty of selfish prideful Mormons out there -- enough to perpetuate these stereotypes that you claim are nonsense. If you don't believe that Mormons are exclusionary I would assert that you haven't seen enough Mormons. Or maybe you're in denial. There are a few places right here within Utah where a large part of the ward we were in were blatantly arrogant and judgmental -- now granted, they lived in a small town of 2000 people, so you could probably chalk that up to the "small town" mentality, but still -- their prideful attitudes was shocking behavior for folks who claimed to be LDS. And I'll also add that probably of anywhere where we've lived, by far the friendliest folks we've ever had the pleasure of living among were the folks in Green River, Wyoming. And that applies to Mormons and non Mormons alike. Maybe it was something in the water...

And about the coffee thing -- when I was a missionary, we routinely told folks not to drink coffee because we were routinely asked "what exactly constitutes a hot drink?" So there ya go -- an example of a Mormon telling somebody else not to drink coffee. :coffee:

[devo_stevo]

I could be wrong, but I think the point Sombeech is trying to make is that while that stuff happens, it's not because they are being taught in Sunday School to go out and be mean to other people and exclude them because they aren't "one of us". If that's happening, it's because people are, like you said, people. I'll agree that it happens. A lot more than it should (shouldn't happen at all). Really, it shouldn't matter as long as they're good kids. There are several non members in my neighborhood that my kids play with. I don't really care if they go to church or not, and neither do they.

As for the coffee thing. When you're a missionary, teaching the gospel, and you get to the part about the word of wisdom, you tell them not to drink coffee. It should be done, like everything else, with the right approach and spirit of helping them understand. Not quite the same as walking into a cafe and declaring that everyone there is going to hell for drinking the infernal fire water that is coffee. But you knew that already.

[Iceaxe]

I thought the reason you go the church is to learn how to judge other people?

[rockgremlin]

I could be wrong, but I think the point Sombeech is trying to make is that while that stuff happens, it's not because they are being taught in Sunday School to go out and be mean to other people and exclude them because they aren't "one of us". If that's happening, it's because people are, like you said, people. I'll agree that it happens. A lot more than it should (shouldn't happen at all). Really, it shouldn't matter as long as they're good kids. There are several non members in my neighborhood that my kids play with. I don't really care if they go to church or not, and neither do they.

As for the coffee thing. When you're a missionary, teaching the gospel, and you get to the part about the word of wisdom, you tell them not to drink coffee. It should be done, like everything else, with the right approach and spirit of helping them understand. Not quite the same as walking into a cafe and declaring that everyone there is going to hell for drinking the infernal fire water that is coffee. But you knew that already.

Yeah, I agree and I'm sincerely trying not to be Mr. Snarky-pants about all of this.

I think your opinions are frequently colored by your immediate environment. For example, if my only contact with Mormons was with folks similar to the Green River populace, I think my opinion would forever be rosy and positive. On the other hand, if my only contact was with folks similar to the likes of this town-in-Utah-that-will-remain-unnamed, then I think I'd spend the rest of my life throwing rocks at the church and labeling them as hypocrites.

I think the Church's biggest problem is PR. The Church has a PR problem. They always have, and I think they've made some concerted effort in recent years to improve this. And I think much of this will change with the ushering in of the up and coming generation. Keep in mind, most (if not all) of the the members of the Presidency and Quorum of the 12 were alive to see the day when Mormons dealt with homosexuals in radically different ways.

[Sombeech]

OK Sombeech....you sure are desperate to convince everybody that Mormons are genuinely great people.

No, I know there are a bunch of assholes out there. If somebody is claiming a Mormon is telling them what to do, I'm calling it out.

Mormons have rules for themselves, basically if you want to be in this club, here are the rules. If you are not in this club and you have no interest in this club, there's no reason for Mormons to tell you what to do.

So for everybody claiming that they've been told by the church they are going to hell for drinking coffee, it's a straight up lie and we all know it.

If you're not in the club, they really don't care what you do, just don't start expecting the church to change and cater to your needs either.

Tolerance both ways and everything is great.

[DirkHammergate]

So there ya go -- an example of a Mormon telling somebody else not to drink coffee. :coffee:

I find it funny its been discovered coffee has numerous dietary benefits. Nobody really dies of coffee or gets sick over it, it's actually beneficial. The word of wisdom, as far as I was taught was a "Recommended Guideline" but not required cause Emma Smith was sick of cleaning up pull tobacco messes during their meetings. My great great grandpa was one of the pioneers who settled Provo and was the guy that had the key to the town liquor cabinet.Town Alderman or something. The bar definitely got moved later but not really sure how and when.

[devo_stevo]

Yeah, I agree and I'm sincerely trying not to be Mr. Snarky-pants about all of this.

I think your opinions are frequently colored by your immediate environment. For example, if my only contact with Mormons was with folks similar to the Green River populace, I think my opinion would forever be rosy and positive. On the other hand, if my only contact was with folks similar to the likes of this town-in-Utah-that-will-remain-unnamed, then I think I'd spend the rest of my life throwing rocks at the church and labeling them as hypocrites.

I think the Church's biggest problem is PR. The Church has a PR problem. They always have, and I think they've made some concerted effort in recent years to improve this. And I think much of this will change with the ushering in of the up and coming generation. Keep in mind, most (if not all) of the the members of the Presidency and Quorum of the 12 were alive to see the day when Mormons dealt with homosexuals in radically different ways.
I can't really argue with any of this.

Heck, I go to church, and there are people that make me not want to sometimes.

[Sombeech]

And about the coffee thing -- when I was a missionary, we routinely told folks not to drink coffee because we were routinely asked "what exactly constitutes a hot drink?" So there ya go -- an example of a Mormon telling somebody else not to drink coffee. :coffee:

Right, we tell people all the time what we believe and what we practice. But we don't, or shouldn't tell people what they should do or what they should practice. If they want to be in the club, we don't drink coffee.

If I shared my belief that I try not to Jaywalk, I'm not telling you to not Jaywalk. And in my daily struggles, trying not to Jaywalk and I slip up and run across the street, it doesn't make me a hypocrite. I would be a hypocrite if I told you not to Jaywalk, while I know I am guilty of Jaywalking.

But I'm not telling anybody not to Jaywalk, I'm just telling you I am trying not to do it.

When the church says let's strive to not shop on Sundays, it is in no way telling non Mormons not to shop on Sundays. Mormons do not tell non Mormons not to shop on Sunday. Mormons are not telling non Mormons what to do. Mormons don't "shove religion" down anybody's throat. They have a conference every 6 months, and then non mormons will actively search out the controversial topics and cry about being oppressed by the church, when they sought out the topics, hence the original post in this thread.

If Mormons are oppressing others, then watch out because I've got a whole list of how the Mormons are getting falsely accused and blamed for BS nonsense.

[rockgremlin]

Wait....so am I supposed to jaywalk then? :becca:


Just kiddin'. I get your analogies. You seem very defensive about this topic. I'm doing my best to try and find common ground and it seems like I'm always met with another lengthy rant about the injustices the LDS are continually subjected to. I think we can all agree that if a Mormon acts like an asshole that it's not because that's acceptable doctrine -- it's just cuz he's an asshole.

[DirkHammergate]

Mormons don't "shove religion" down anybody's throat.


What's the purpose of the 80,000k missionary program?

[uintafly]

I guess it comes down to semantics, but what about when the church heavily campaigns against the rights of gay people to get married (Prop 8)? Sure seems like the church telling other people how to live to me. And on a less important issue, how do things like the Zion Curtain get accounted? Medical MJ? Sunday beer sales in Highland, Utah?

I choose to live in Utah because I love to ski and recreate in our mountains and because my family is here. 95% of the time the strong Mormon influence here doesn't bother me at all, but there are some annoyances for sure when an organization has so much control on our government and laws. But even with the annoyances I like I here and get along with most just fine. But the idea that the church doesn't try to control many aspects of peoples lives is laughable. And certainly they did a lot more 20 years ago.

[Sombeech]

Nah, I'm just clarifying. People will bring up the gay topic and expect Mormons to cower away, but I'm just not afraid to discuss it.

If people want Mormons to not tell them what to do, then people should stop telling Mormons what to do.

Tolerance.

[rockgremlin]

I guess it comes down to semantics, but what about when the church heavily campaigns against the rights of gay people to get married (Prop 8)? Sure seems like the church telling other people how to live to me. And on a less important issue, how do things like the Zion Curtain get accounted? Medical MJ? Sunday beer sales in Highland, Utah?

I choose to live in Utah because I love to ski and recreate in our mountains and because my family is here. 95% of the time the strong Mormon influence here doesn't bother me at all, but there are some annoyances for sure when an organization has so much control on our government and laws. But even with the annoyances I like I here and get along with most just fine. But the idea that the church doesn't try to control many aspects of peoples lives is laughable. And certainly they did a lot more 20 years ago.


See....I was going to bring up examples like these but I was afraid that Sombeech would drop another half dozen metaphors on me so I capitulated.
uintafly has a point. The most glaring example is Prop 8 in California when the church actually went as far as to fund campaign efforts. This one really boiled my blood. Utah's quirky liquor laws are another example of how the local religion does influence others. And it's not just coincidence that Utah is the only state in the entire Union that doesn't have some form of legalized gambling -- the Utah legislature is predominantly LDS. Go figure.

[Sombeech]

It's like the Marijuana topic. I'm very objective in my reasons, I try to leave emotions out of it. When I hear my fellow Mormons talk about Marijuana and how dangerous it is, I openly, and politely correct them and let them know it's not addictive like they think, and you cannot die from an overdose of weed or THC.

This does not mean I'm voting to legalize it, I just have no motivation to do it. If somebody presents a good argument to legalize it, and it motivates me to go vote, I'll do it. But while I'll correct people that it's not as dangerous as they think, I'll also correct others when they say it's illegal only because of the Mormons, because that's far from true also.

I don't need to defend the LDS Church. I don't care what y'all think of me or the church. But if somebody says their kid has no friends because they are not Mormon, I'm going to step in and object because it's not true. If somebody wants to ridicule Mormons and say they are quirky and nerdy, you're right, there are a ton of dweebs that are also Mormon. They laugh at bland things, some people get shocked at mild occurrences, that's all true. I'm just objecting to things that are not true. The LDS church doesn't need my defense, it'll do fine on it's own.

And when somebody wants to talk about the gay community vs the LDS church, I'll go all the way down that road with you and we will discover that one of the two sides is usually intolerant of the other, while spray painting the very word tolerance on the protest signs.

[Sombeech]

Anyways, so how about them new Church hours!

[DirkHammergate]

Anyways, so how about them new Church hours!

Take it down to 50 minutes, serve coffee and bagels after and I might consider.

[Sombeech]

Take it down to 50 minutes, serve coffee and bagels after and I might consider.
no, you still won't :haha:

[uintafly]

no, you still won't :haha:

Probably not, but you could get Iceaxe if you start having southern girls in confederate bikinis pass the sacrament. :roflol:

By the way, a compelling argument for legal weed: I don't need the government to tell me what I can and can't consume. Or better yet, think of all of the money we will save by not having non violent pot users tie up the court system. Or taxes.

When I was at the U, I took a class called the economics of drugs, crime and sex. Lots of compelling evidence that legalizing vices ends up in lower crime rates and drug abuse rates. Alcohol Prohibition is a good example. Also a piece of trivia for you, Utah was the deciding state to overturn prohibition. The voters went against the church in that election, let's hope they do the same next month, because my back has been hurtin and I am not a fan of opiates. :lol8:

[Iceaxe]

Probably not, but you could get Iceaxe if you start having southern girls in confederate bikinis pass the sacrament. :roflol:

Nope... not even if the sacrament was a bottle of fine India pale ale.

I have nothing against peaceful religions, but I can't wrap my head around any church being the one true religion and anyone failing to worship at said church being doomed to hell. I don't think God actually works that way.

If God didn't truly love gays, and blacks, and women, and old white guys he would not have made so many of each.

[emoji889]



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