John McCain

[Iceaxe]

R.I.P. John McCain...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180827/1695f3568aff4a359ac5c54f8012dd45.jpg

Climb-Utah.com

[twotimer]

I'm with you...I don't get the hero worship. He defined the word RINO.

[twotimer]

Jeez, the drama never ends.

"A November to remember..."

[accadacca]

I didn’t realize he spent 5 1/2 years in captivity.

[rockgremlin]

I didn’t realize he spent 5 1/2 years in captivity.

I like guys who don't spend 5.5 years in captivity :haha:

Yeah he lived a pretty interesting life, politics aside.

[Iceaxe]

I didn’t realize he spent 5 1/2 years in captivity.

"He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured." - Donald Trump 2015

[twotimer]

His father was an Admiral in the Navy. When McCain was captured, the NV were going to let him go because of this...but he refused because he didn't want his release to be used a "propaganda".

I think he had a bit of dookie for brains. Live to fight another day, y'know? He should have gotten out, climbed right back into an A6 or whatever he was flying and bombed the hell out them all over again.

Funny how they ridiculed him so much when he ran for Prez yet he became a liberal darling for giving Trump the middle finger. I didn't hear one word about his involvement in the SnL crisis...check out the "Keating Five". That cost us billions.

[Iceaxe]

His father was an Admiral in the Navy. When McCain was captured, the NV were going to let him go because of this...but he refused because he didn't want his release to be used a "propaganda".

You don't have that quite right. The NVA were going to let McCain go home early AFTER the prisoner exchange agreement was signed with the US. This would have resulted in McCain arriving home a few days early ahead of the other prisoners. McCain refused this deal because of the propaganda issues and leaving the other prisoners behind. It's not like it would have saved McCain 5 years, it would have saved him a few days.

[emoji631]

[powerplay]

Nope, or "fake news" as you would call it.

McCain was offered early release in June 1968 because he followed and honored the US Code of Conduct. He was a POW until March 1973.

You can critique him for his policy as a Congressman but it cowardly and ridiculous to besmirch his service record with mistruths.

Citations can be found on his wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_McCain#cite _note-hub-451-138

[rockgremlin]

Nope, or "fake news" as you would call it.

McCain was offered early release in June 1968 because he followed and honored the US Code of Conduct. He was a POW until March 1973.

You can critique him for his policy as a Congressman but it cowardly and ridiculous to besmirch his service record with mistruths.

Citations can be found on his wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_McCain#cite _note-hub-451-138


Quite the introductory first post.


Hmmm..."powerplay"...smells kinda like catfish. :popcorn:

[Sombeech]

And just like that, the Left like John McCain

[powerplay]

Have anything more than AM radio talking points, Sombeech? Rhetorical question because after a year of lurking I haven't seen any original critical thinking in your posts.

The organized, political "left" is definitely exploiting McCain's tension with Trump. Its an easy political move with free ammunition that Trump loaded against himself. But the organized, political "right" is also stepping up to get McCain's back. I doubt either will do so for long as his death exits the news.

McCain's political service doesn't deserve to be lionized anymore than his military service deserves to be denounced by old internet trolls with misinformation. McCain was a complicated man but we don't tend to deal in nuance in this country when it comes to political conversations. "Both" sides tend to ignore inconvenient facts that conflict with their preferred political narrative. Death tends to exaggerate that reality to its limits.

[Sombeech]

Rhetorical question because after a year of lurking I haven't seen any original critical thinking in your posts.

That's the point.

[Iceaxe]

Nope, or "fake news" as you would call it.

McCain was offered early release in June 1968 because he followed and honored the US Code of Conduct. He was a POW until March 1973.

You can critique him for his policy as a Congressman but it cowardly and ridiculous to besmirch his service record with mistruths.

Citations can be found on his wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_McCain#cite _note-hub-451-138


I stand corrected... thanks :-)

I did find it interesting that he was following the military code of conduct. If he had of excepted the early release he could have been court martialed and recieved a dishonorable discharge.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-refused-early-release-as-a-pow-in-vietnam-2018-8

[emoji631]

[powerplay]

I stand corrected... thanks :-)

I did find it interesting that he was following the military code of conduct. If he had of excepted the early release he could have been court martialed and recieved a dishonorable discharge.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-refused-early-release-as-a-pow-in-vietnam-2018-8

[emoji631]

No worries and appreciate willingness to be corrected. POWs, at a minimum, deserve honesty.

[powerplay]

That's the point.

Uh huh.

Sometimes the contents of the book can be accurately judged by the cover.

[rockgremlin]

Have anything more than AM radio talking points, Sombeech? Rhetorical question because after a year of lurking I haven't seen any original critical thinking in your posts.

The organized, political "left" is definitely exploiting McCain's tension with Trump. Its an easy political move with free ammunition that Trump loaded against himself. But the organized, political "right" is also stepping up to get McCain's back. I doubt either will do so for long as his death exits the news.

McCain's political service doesn't deserve to be lionized anymore than his military service deserves to be denounced by old internet trolls with misinformation. McCain was a complicated man but we don't tend to deal in nuance in this country when it comes to political conversations. "Both" sides tend to ignore inconvenient facts that conflict with their preferred political narrative. Death tends to exaggerate that reality to its limits.


Breaking silence by calling bullshit on two prominent forum members. :lol8:

I really hope this guy sticks around. Things just got a little more interesting.

[Sombeech]

Uh huh.

Sometimes the contents of the book can be accurately judged by the cover.
Thank you for the compliment. The contents of the book are incredibly good looking.

[Sombeech]

If you are looking to me for quality political insight, I've got some bad news for you.

[powerplay]

I stand corrected... thanks :-)

I did find it interesting that he was following the military code of conduct. If he had of excepted the early release he could have been court martialed and recieved a dishonorable discharge.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-refused-early-release-as-a-pow-in-vietnam-2018-8

[emoji631]

You do seem hellbent on finding a negative to his POW status and choices in those five + years. I am curious if you challenge all POWs that way? Is it cathartic to point out some detail like the above?

There is a reason the country developed the US Code of Conduct and specific training for evasion and capture. What American soldiers faced in the mid-20th century was a highly skilled means of torture, information extraction and propoganda designed to use the captured soldier's sense of survival against them. Vaguely arguing those who succeeded at adhering to the code did so to just avoid legal repercussions flies directly in the face of the courage and honor it takes to deal with years of coordinated torture at the hands of a foreign government.

[Iceaxe]

Breaking silence by calling bullshit on two prominent forum members. [emoji38]8:

I really hope this guy sticks around. Things just got a little more interesting.
Ditto....

[Iceaxe]

You do seem hellbent on finding a negative to his POW status and choices in those five + years. I am curious if you challenge all POWs that way? Is it cathartic to point out some detail like the above?

You have it all wrong. I found the situation that McCain was placed in very intriguing. He was placed between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

McCain comes from a military family where both father and grandfather were 4 star admirals, to come home in disgrace (at least militarily) would have been a difficult situation. The military code of conduct is there for a reason.

Or as the Spartans women would tell their husbands and sons as they headed into battle "come home with your shield or upon it."

I find it interesting to contemplate what path I would have chosen. YMMV

[emoji631]

[powerplay]

Thanks for the clarity. The was room for interpretation in the direction of my concern given your earlier use of the Trump quote.

I can't remotely imagine the choice I would take faced with those forms of torture.

[Iceaxe]

The Trump quote was Trump's quote, I never said I agreed with it, however I did find it humorous.

By staying a POW McCain was simply following orders (code of conduct). He was given the choice of do the right thing or do the selfish thing, and put every other POW in peril. I believe to a man raised in a military family the decision was a rather easy one to make.

[emoji631]

Climb-Utah.com

[twotimer]

Yeah well...I still say the dude was a dickwad. I voted for him in '08 but in hindsight he may have actually been worse than Obama.

Also, nice job he did pissing all over Palin. Says he lost the election because of her, when I think he would have lost worse without her.

The Code of Conduct? I would have gotten out by any means possible. Unless of course, I could have set up a network like "Hogan's Heroes"...but I reckon those Vietnamese were a bit smarter than Klink or Schultz.

[Iceaxe]

The Code of Conduct? I would have gotten out by any means possible.

Even if it meant placing the other US POW's into greater danger and peril? Perhaps resulting in the death of other POW's? That was the Choice given to McCain.

[Sombeech]

Still a bitter dude towards Trump at the end of his life, not wanting him at his funeral. Yeah that was quite the comment to say about McCain about being captured and all, but damn, at the end of your life it's a commitment to hold these grudges even on your death bed. I wonder if he still holds as big of grudge towards his captors from the POW days?

I hope I'm qualified to make such commentary, I didn't listen to any AM radio or watch Fox News, in like, 9 years. Maybe that's why I'm lacking in "original critical thinking" because I don't give a shit and I'm not wasting my life away listening to a daily political program.

I'm too busy getting outdoors, and these are just my simple minded comments on the matter, I hope it's not too shallow. Talking points or not, it's either correct or incorrect.

Welcome to Bogley by the way

[oldno7]

Gotta agree with beech, I've never been a Rush L. follower, probably ever listened to him for 15 minutes combined.

Fox news? started out with good intentions, ended up at this point, very similar to the others.(news sensationalist/creators) not "reporters"

I don't watch much tv, I get all my information strictly from bogley.:peepwall::gap:

[twotimer]

Even if it meant placing the other US POW's into greater danger and peril? Perhaps resulting in the death of other POW's? That was the Choice given to McCain.If you could direct me to where I can read up on this, I'd appreciate it. 'Cuz I've never heard anything about other men being executed if they released him. Seems to me that they were already in great danger and peril.

I never married or had kids, so there is no other human being on this planet that I'd give my life for. Staying healthy and strong to a ripe old age is the grand prize. I guess I can't "relate" to what he decided to do.

Was he a war hero? Oh, absolutely. But IMO he was detestable otherwise.

[Iceaxe]

If you could direct me to where I can read up on this, I'd appreciate it. 'Cuz I've never heard anything about other men being executed if they released him. Seems to me that they were already in great danger and peril.

No one ever mentioned executions. The NVA would have used McCain's release to break other POW's. More info here:

https://amp.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-refused-early-release-as-a-pow-in-vietnam-2018-8

[emoji631]


Climb-Utah.com

[twotimer]

So the captors could say "The Admiral's son got out, and you didn't"? Like that would make a difference? They got their asses kicked anyway.

They all broke. Even McCain did. Six of one, half friggin' dozen of the other.

Still don't see where anybody's lives were threatened...aside from the daily ass whoopin's.

It was a matter of honor, I suppose.

[powerplay]

So the captors could say "The Admiral's son got out, and you didn't"? Like that would make a difference? They got their asses kicked anyway.

They all broke. Even McCain did. Six of one, half friggin' dozen of the other.

Still don't see where anybody's lives were threatened...aside from the daily ass whoopin's.

It was a matter of honor, I suppose.

Yes, it makes a difference. Its why they developed the Code. Read up on the affects of POW flipping and collaboration in Korean War camps due to torture.

These types of camps thrived on pysch ops torture as much as physical torture, as they go hand in hand. They slowly chipped away at any remaining moral, loyalty, training, etc by any means available. So yeah, as McCain said, exploiting other soldiers with class differences and privileges if McCain had accepted the offer is a fair accurate conclusion. A high ranking officer with higher ranking family leaving the camp would have provided a ton of tools for the Vietnamese camp personnel to use against our country and the remaining POWs.

I don't know of a definitive source on the subject but its still being talked about:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/09/22/traitors-or-patriots-eight-vietnam-pows-were-charged-with-collaborating-with-the-enemy/

[oldno7]

,,..,

[oldno7]

...

[oldno7]

,.,

[DirkHammergate]

Yes, it makes a difference. Its why they developed the Code. Read up on the affects of POW flipping and collaboration in Korean War camps due to torture.

These types of camps thrived on pysch ops torture as much as physical torture, as they go hand in hand. They slowly chipped away at any remaining moral, loyalty, training, etc by any means available. So yeah, as McCain said, exploiting other soldiers with class differences and privileges if McCain had accepted the offer is a fair accurate conclusion. A high ranking officer with higher ranking family leaving the camp would have provided a ton of tools for the Vietnamese camp personnel to use against our country and the remaining POWs.

I don't know of a definitive source on the subject but its still being talked about:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/09/22/traitors-or-patriots-eight-vietnam-pows-were-charged-with-collaborating-with-the-enemy/

hmmmm, new guy uses words and sources instead of a meme generator?? What has happened to this forum??

[DirkHammergate]

Powerplay,

oldno7 is a tough meme generating nut to crack. At least most of these posters can muster words so I give them credit.

[oldno7]

Powerplay,

oldno7 is a tough meme generating nut to crack. At least most of these posters can muster words so I give them credit.

I've posted more material comments than most, sorry your education failed and you cant read.

Theres always room for a good pooper scooper in your hometown.

[oldno7]

and look--184K a year,

https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-poop-patrol-employees-make-184000-a-year-2018-8

[Sombeech]

hmmmm, new guy uses words and sources instead of a meme generator?? What has happened to this forum??

Maybe it's not a guy :cool2:

[DirkHammergate]

and look--184K a year,

https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-poop-patrol-employees-make-184000-a-year-2018-8

That's right, I forgot the thread where San Francisco was the worst place on earth to live. I'm sure you've got a meme for that.

[oldno7]

That's right, I forgot the thread where San Francisco was the worst place on earth to live. I'm sure you've got a meme for that.

Well of course I do.....

Just figure you liberals are way into the "arts" so knowing you have no ability to reason or use common sense--I bring you art...

[oldno7]

the dirk(jimmy):crazy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apa0nG1OfUc

[Iceaxe]

Nothing wrong with a good meme to get your point across... it allows you to point out what a dumbshit someone is without actually using the word dumbshit... that is pure genius....

[emoji106]

[Sombeech]

The memes are the only reason I take a peek at the political crap anyways. Otherwise this is boring as hell.

[oldno7]

It's all good---we're just monkeying around...

[powerplay]

Powerplay,

oldno7 is a tough meme generating nut to crack. At least most of these posters can muster words so I give them credit.

Yeah, plenty of users here trying to think for themselves and that remain curious; interesting place.

I love a well-timed meme or gif but damn. I'm sure there is some substance in that half empty bottle of Jack Daniels but he hides it behind lazy memes. Still cracks me up how his concept of liberal is anything left of drunk uncle. Luckily most of his memes don't show up on the platforms I use 90% of the time.

[Sombeech]

Luckily most of his memes don't show up on the platforms I use 90% of the time.
Surely you must mean some other sites with greater political sophistication than an outdoor forum!

A political platform without memes, please never show me this place.

[DirkHammergate]

It's all good---we're just monkeying around...


90450

[DirkHammergate]

Nothing wrong with a good meme to get your point across... it allows you to point out what a dumbshit someone is without actually using the word dumbshit... that is pure genius....

[emoji106]

Saying that I'm an anti-memetic is #fakenews

[powerplay]

Still a bitter dude towards Trump at the end of his life, not wanting him at his funeral. Yeah that was quite the comment to say about McCain about being captured and all, but damn, at the end of your life it's a commitment to hold these grudges even on your death bed. I wonder if he still holds as big of grudge towards his captors from the POW days?


You do realize funerals are for the living, right? Families don't normally invite guests who actively and consistently disrespect the life and character of the deceased. And its some twisted partisan logic to make that about petty grudges instead of honoring an individual's and family's values. I don't think McCain the politician was some saint or hyped up political hero. I disagreed with him often but it seems consistent and proper for him and his family to disinvite someone who so brazenly disrespects so much of their family.

And whatever his opinions on POW captors and camp officials was well earned. You spend 1/16 of your life being tortured to the point of disability and 2 years locked in a solitary box the size of bathtub and it tends to inform the rest of your life in some fashion. Seems like a petty critique on your part ironically.

[powerplay]

Surely you must mean some other sites with greater political sophistication than an outdoor forum!

A political platform without memes, please never show me this place.

Nope, I mean this site. Grateful for the error placeholder that covers up oldno7's inane memes.

[DirkHammergate]

Out of curiosity, was Hatch at the Senate memorial? I didn't see him, must be suddenly feverish about investigating Google, oh wait!

[powerplay]

Out of curiosity, was Hatch at the Senate memorial? I didn't see him, must be suddenly feverish about investigating Google, oh wait!

Yeah, he was there next to Durbin:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/31/us/politics/mccain-memorial-democrats-republicans.html

Seems like it was a respectful affair. Mixed thoughts on Hatch but the man had the grace and humility to apologize for his statement earlier this year.

[twotimer]

Kurt is a badass. McCain is still a douche.

Like that one in "Sausage Party". All pissed off.

[accadacca]

From the funeral.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180902/365b193bb63a7c2a010378ba011b8de7.jpg

[Sombeech]

So it turns out that John McCain was a real son of a bitch in 2016, being butthurt from Trump winning, McCain played a crucial part in leaking the Russian Collusion fake dossier and starting this whole investigation. Sorry powerplay, I know you loved the guy.

[Iceaxe]

McCain was an egotistical ass...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/d4fbfccecf645ccd7040f4563720da1d.jpg