The Utah Opiod Epidemic

[Sombeech]

I think we're all familiar with this phrase now in the last year or 2. My wife as she's continuing her Nurse education to become a Nurse Practitioner, is doing some interviews and essays on the Opiod Epidemic in Utah.

She as a Registered Nurse in a surgical center, and I with a history of opiate use from multiple knee surgeries, have had some healthy back and forth debate on the topic.

One of the first assumptions about Utah and the "opiodemic" here, is that because the LDS Church opposes alcohol and tobacco, Mormons must then think they get an allowance for prescription meds.

At a glance, this theory makes perfect sense, but asking a few questions, I think we can see there are a few holes. What about the non LDS that use and abuse opiates? They have no alliance against alcohol. I know plenty of non LDS people that have used and abused opiates, so the LDS rules have no part to play in their reasoning. Also, the LDS faith holds just as much contempt for improper medication abuse as alcohol or tobacco, and believe me, Mormons know about it.

So there must be other reasons besides religion that might explain the high ratio of opiate use here in Utah.

What are your thoughts? As part of her assignment, she will be holding a phone interview with Lieutenant Governor Cox about this topic. She is also looking for some key questions to ask him, so if you can think of some great questions she should ask, please post them here.

Thanks!

[rockgremlin]

To me, it's simple: LDS folks are counseled against drinking alcohol - a substance that many, many people use the world over to take the edge off after a hard day's work. So if you can't turn to alcohol, what's the logical substitute?

Opiates....provided that you have a prescription from a doctor -- which in a way is kind of like permission.

I have other insights about this. Hit me up sideband...

[Sandstone Addiction]

What irritates me about this whole deal is how opiates have been demonized.

I've never abused them, but I have taken them on numerous occasions and glad I had them. I took Percocet for 1 week following ACL reconstruction and couldn't imagine going through that without it.

So now, with all talk on the media and the banners at the DR office displaying how evil painkillers are, I almost feel embarrassed and guilty asking for something to take the edge off of occasional back pain, etc. I'm sure the first thing that goes through the Docs mind is "Yea right...I'll bet this guy doesn't really need them for pain..."

I'm sure the vast majority of patients, like myself, benefiting from their use don't get hooked, so why are people like me being punished for the actions of a few?

[Sandstone Addiction]

The only faithful LDS people I know that have been hooked have had chronic pain and became addicted from legitimate use.

At least in my neighborhood, no one that I see every week at church is just popping pills.

But then again, I might just be naive??

[rockgremlin]

What irritates me about this whole deal is how opiates have been demonized.

I've never abused them, but I have taken them on numerous occasions and glad I had them. I took Percocet for 1 week following ACL reconstruction and couldn't imagine going through that without it.

So now, with all talk on the media and the banners at the DR office displaying how evil painkillers are, I almost feel embarrassed and guilty asking for something to take the edge off of occasional back pain, etc. I'm sure the first thing that goes through the Docs mind is "Yea right...I'll bet this guy doesn't really need them for pain..."

I'm sure the vast majority of patients, like myself, benefiting from their use don't get hooked, so why are people like me being punished for the actions of a few?


You're spot on with this post. I too am angry about the current media blitz directed at demonizing opiates. I have close family members who suffer from chronic pain who can't get opiate pain killers because their doctors are mortified to prescribe them. So they take work off and spend days writhing in agony in bed, taking Ibuprofen to no effect. It's bullshit.

The fact is....of all of the people who take opiates, only 8-10% may become addicted. The other 90+% are perfectly capable of taking them responsibly with no threat of addiction. Statistics and iterative data analysis has proven this. But that's all now swept under the rug by the media frenzy directed at opiates.

[rockgremlin]

But hey -- if you can't get much needed opiate pain relief legitimately through a doctor, there are other avenues that one may pursue -- like street heroin, or cannabis from neighboring states, right?

[Sombeech]

So she's been trying to think of some questions to ask leutenant governor cox. I said she may even ask what his thoughts are on the herb "Kratom", as it has been known to ease withdrawals from opiates, which I believe is the key to avoiding addiction.

And again, I believe the issue is much deeper than an LDS population. Skip the Mormons for now and consider why non Mormons are addicted to opiates. It's not because of LDS teachings.

Utah isn't the top opiate addicted state either, although this is a popular theme, usually perpetrated by those who haven't stepped outside of Utah.

I think it's the absence of strategy for tapering off of the pain meds. You'll get 30 or 60 pills after a surgery with absolutely zero instruction of how to stop when the pills run out. I believe this is key.

[tallsteve]

The worst pain I've ever felt has been tooth pain from an abscess. The ONLY thing that made the pain subside was an opiate. I've also taken them right after 3 knee surgeries and back and neck surgery. I'm glad I had them but, quit taking them within 24-36 hours or so post surgery. I don't like the "loopy" feeling. Maybe it's because I've never been drunk or had alcohol in my life, haha! I still have several prescription bottles of the stuff in my medicine cabinet. I need to go through them and throw out the really old stuff. Every once in a while I'll take one for really bad back pain but, it's rare.

[Sombeech]

I still have several prescription bottles of the stuff in my medicine cabinet.
That's one thing I wouldn't admit to too many people. I know people that would come up with the strangest excuse to come over and see you.

Want a free estimate for carpet cleaning? How about a free test for C02 in your house? Addicts are very creative when they know somebody's got some pills, especially if they aren't being used and counted.

Then some people will just break in and steal them when you aren't home. Friends have had this happen. And then if they think you'll get them replaced because they're gone now, watch out.


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[Sombeech]

While I'm on topic, here are some methods that addicts will use, and have used.

They come over to see you, ask to use the bathroom. Not in that one? They'll wait for that bathroom to be in use then they'll REALLY need to go RIGHT NOW so they can go check out the other bathroom.

You gotta go somewhere? Oh is it ok if they just let themselves out?

Hey I'm on my way to meet you guys at the picnic but I forgot something, can I swing by your house to grab it and let myself in?

Can my kids come play with your kids? Hey I'm watching them if you need to run on an errand or something.

Hey is your water pressure weird in your shower? Mine is. Are you sure? No? Can I just come over and check?



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[tallsteve]

That's one thing I wouldn't admit to too many people. I know people that would come up with the strangest excuse to come over and see you.


I don't. Except here on Bogley! So, unless there's a bunch of addicts on here, I'm not too worried about it. Plus, I don't keep them in the "normal" places someone with an addiction would look. They'd never find them unless they had a week or so to search.

[uintafly]

So she's been trying to think of some questions to ask leutenant governor cox. I said she may even ask what his thoughts are on the herb "Kratom", as it has been known to ease withdrawals from opiates, which I believe is the key to avoiding addiction.

And again, I believe the issue is much deeper than an LDS population. Skip the Mormons for now and consider why non Mormons are addicted to opiates. It's not because of LDS teachings.

Utah isn't the top opiate addicted state either, although this is a popular theme, usually perpetrated by those who haven't stepped outside of Utah.

I think it's the absence of strategy for tapering off of the pain meds. You'll get 30 or 60 pills after a surgery with absolutely zero instruction of how to stop when the pills run out. I believe this is key.

Are there really people out there saying Utah is #1 in opiate addiction? lol, they need to go to KY or West Virginia some time. A while back I spent a day in family court in Eastern KY. Without a doubt it was the most disturbing day of my life. I lost some faith in humanity that day. Grandpas arrested for DUI with grandkids in car (parents already lost custody), 8 year old boy screaming "I WANT MY MOMMYYYY!!!" as the bailiff leads her out and the dad tries to wrestle the boy. 3 hours of destroyed families dealing with the consequences of drugs and shitty parenting. Just thinking about it has ruined my day. Thanks bogley.

But back to more happy things: tallsteve, what's your address?

[middlefork]

My $.02 is that it is much easier to hide opiate use than some other substances.

People use all kinds of substances and actions to affect the way they feel. But most are more or less visible to others, think smoking or drinking. Even running or adventure sports (Endorphin, Adrenalin). Prescription opiates are a simple small action that will produce a known response.

The problems begin when a given dose stops creating the desired affect or an illegal substance starts to be substituted because of supply or demand.It is also my understanding that people become somewhat immune to the effects of a certain dosage after time.

I think most people refer the the opiate problem as a problem with the overdoses caused by excessive use. I believe this is a dosage problem. Much like if a little is good , a lot is better type thinking.

[rockgremlin]

But back to more happy things: tallsteve, what's your address?


He said he'd tell me and nobody else. I have Right of Discovery here. Get in line...

[tallsteve]

But back to more happy things: tallsteve, what's your address?

Hmmmmm..... wondering now what the street value is!

[Sombeech]

Are there really people out there saying Utah is #1 in opiate addiction? lol, they need to go to KY or West Virginia some time.
Yeah it's usually some post on Facebook. Just like I'm sure we've all heard somebody say Utah has the highest gay suicide rate, and it's followed by the standard reasoning "because of the Mormon church". I've even read people think Utah has bad air pollution because of the Mormons! I tell ya, anything to pin on that Mormon cult just sounds so right.

I mean, we all know the outdoor retail show left Utah because of Mormons, and now the oil rigs are knocking down goblins and Hoodoos, so it's all linked. Circle of life. Mormons hate nature.

In my wife's study, it turns out utah ranks 7th. But when I ask what that means, is it usage per capita? Is it overdoses? Is it the number of prescriptions? I like details, and when I start digging in, that's when... it starts..... to get fuzzy......... So who knows. It could mean any number of things, because "7th in the nation for opiate use" doesn't really define anything.


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[rockgremlin]

because "7th in the nation for opiate use" doesn't really define anything.

You're absolutely right.

So what are the statistics broken down according to total overdoses, opioid deaths per capita, etc, etc? And who is supposedly in the top 3 if Utah is 7th?

[Iceaxe]

Interesting.....

89548

[Sombeech]

Interesting.....

89548Imma call a big ol batch of bullshit on this I one. Either that calculation is misleading, or they are counting ibuprofen and anti inflatories as painkillers.

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[rockgremlin]

^^^ NSAIDs - Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatant Drugs = Aspirin, Naproxen (Aleve), Ibuprofen, etc. Acetaminophen (Tylenol) isn't an NSAID.

[double moo]

would need to knoe how many prescription the average user get tomake much sense of this.

[rockgremlin]

I have found the very best thing for pain relief - even better than opiates, weed, alcohol or NSAIDs - is running. Running is the cure-all for everything. Everything from back pain to hangnails to labor pains can all be cured by just getting out there and pounding the pavement in your pretentious yet lightweight new Asics and a slick pair of undersized lycra clinging to your sweaty thighs. I can't believe anybody would even consider polluting their bodies with substances when the secret to pain relief is really as simple as a perky jog along the shoulder of almost any paved avenue. I heard that running can even cure cancer and male pattern baldness. And is it really true that running may bring peace to the middle east? The world may never know...

[Sombeech]

I have found the very best thing for pain relief - even better than opiates, weed, alcohol or NSAIDs - is running. Running is the cure-all for everything. Everything from back pain to hangnails to labor pains can all be cured by just getting out there and pounding the pavement in your pretentious yet lightweight new Asics and a slick pair of undersized lycra clinging to your sweaty thighs. I can't believe anybody would even consider polluting their bodies with substances when the secret to pain relief is really as simple as a perky jog along the shoulder of almost any paved avenue. I heard that running can even cure cancer and male pattern baldness. And is it really true that running may bring peace to the middle east? The world may never know...Imma smack you

[qedcook]

Imma smack you

Lol. Nice.

[Udink]

would need to knoe how many prescription the average user get tomake much sense of this.
How mayn do yuohave? :lol8:

[accadacca]

Millions of opioid pills poured into southeast Utah’s sparsely populated coal country

But the small Main Street shop ordered 4.8 million oxycodone and hydrocodone pills to dispense from 2006 to 2012, according to data recently obtained by The Washington Post.

That’s the fourth highest number of pills delivered to more than 1,000 pharmacies statewide. It’s the only rural one in the top 10, a list dominated by pharmacies on the urban Wasatch Front and in southern Utah’s booming St. George.

That’s the highest per capita rate among all Utah counties, and rivals rates in some Virginia counties in the Appalachian mining region, according to an analysis by The Post. Emery County’s much lower rate — at 64.9 pills per resident per year — still ranked second in Utah.

The death rate for Carbon County’s 20,000 residents, calculated from 2011 to 2016, rose to more than three times the state average, according to data compiled for the Utah Legislature last year.

“We just were so tired of looking at the obituaries every week when we were losing so many people to overdose deaths,” said Karen Dolan, CEO of Four Corners Community Behavioral Health, a nonprofit that provides mental health and substance abuse treatment in Carbon, Emery and Grand counties.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/08/18/millions-opioid-pills/

[rockgremlin]

It's the pills' fault.

Nevermind personal accountability. Nevermind personal responsibility.

It's the pills' fault. Those damned opiates.

Emery County should file a lawsuit against the pharmaceutical industry to get millions of dollars because the opiates killed so many people in their community.

Right? :roll:


To me, the Opiate problem is just as insidious as the gun problem -- I guarantee that any idiot who blames guns for mass shooting deaths will also blame pills and big pharma for Opiate overdose deaths.

Whatever you do, do NOT bring up personal accountability. It must always be the fault of someone or something else. Blame pharma or blame the NRA, but never blame your own shitty choices.

[Sombeech]

65 pills per year? PSSHHHTTTT, lightweights

[Scott Card]

It's the pills' fault.

Nevermind personal accountability. Nevermind personal responsibility.

It's the pills' fault. Those damned opiates.

Emery County should file a lawsuit against the pharmaceutical industry to get millions of dollars because the opiates killed so many people in their community.

Right? :roll:


To me, the Opiate problem is just as insidious as the gun problem -- I guarantee that any idiot who blames guns for mass shooting deaths will also blame pills and big pharma for Opiate overdose deaths.

Whatever you do, do NOT bring up personal accountability. It must always be the fault of someone or something else. Blame pharma or blame the NRA, but never blame your own shitty choices. Is this a serious post or are you justa trollin'? I have no idea how to respond to this having seen very responsible people become addicted by trying to follow doctors orders, get out of pain, and/or having a genetic predisposition to addiction that they didn't know they had. Also, your comparison of guns to opiods is just not cogent. Being physically addicted and using a gun improperly is apples and Sherman tanks in comparison-- not apples to apples. Yes, there is an element of personal responsibility, but addiction is a whole different beast and yes, big pharma has some responsibility for the problem.

[rockgremlin]

^^^ It's a general statement of the current attitude these days of folks not wanting to take personal responsibility for their actions.

The current trend in our society these days is to blame all of your troubles and problems on something or someone else. NOT saying the pharmaceutical industries haven't contributed to the problem -- heck when Oxycontin first came out it was widely marketed as a "non-addictive" solution to pain management. Doctors were told to just prescribe it without fear of addiction. Today we all know that is patently false, but that knowledge had to be gleaned from years of evidence to the contrary, unfortunately.

Nevertheless, many folks want to pawn off their bad decisions onto the Pharmaceutical industry instead of admitting that maybe they shouldn't have lied to multiple doctors for years to get their fix. To place the blame solely on Big Pharma is a cop out and a lie.

It's like personal accountability is a dirty word/s.

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190916/9e33a97c67b7e786c5c07849b5ef16a3.jpg

Deadly tale of a dropout, the mail and a half-million pills

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — The photo that flashed onto the courtroom screen showed a young man dead on his bedroom floor, bare feet poking from the cuffs of his rolled-up jeans. Lurking on a trash can at the edge of the picture was what prosecutors said delivered this death: an ordinary, U.S. Postal Service envelope.

It had arrived with 10 round, blue pills inside, the markings of pharmaceutical-grade oxycodone stamped onto the surface. The young man took out two, crushed and snorted them. But the pills were poison, prosecutors said: counterfeits containing fatal grains of fentanyl, a potent synthetic opioid that has written a deadly new chapter in the American opioid epidemic.

The envelope was postmarked from the suburbs of Salt Lake City.

That's where a clean-cut, 29-year-old college dropout and Eagle Scout named Aaron Shamo made himself a millionaire by building a fentanyl trafficking empire with not much more than his computer and the help of a few friends.

Full Story:

https://www.ksl.com/article/46638158/deadly-tale-of-a-dropout-the-mail-and-a-half-million-pills

[Sombeech]

Stories of Fentanyl sound like every user will die, but it makes me wonder how many others have been using it for years. If it's so deadly, the customer base would be gone, I would think. It sounds like it's the odd bad batch that is killing people, if there are hundreds of thousands of users out there.

Scary stuff though, if you need opiates make sure you're going through a proper prescription, using it as prescribed, and you'll be alright.