LDS Church: Legal analysis ‘raises grave concerns’ about medical marijuana initiative

[accadacca]

SALT LAKE CITY — The LDS Church on Friday released a legal analysis it commissioned into a proposed Utah medical marijuana initiative, saying the report "raises grave concerns" over "the serious adverse consequences that could follow if it were adopted."

"We invite all to read (the analysis) and to make their own judgement," The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also said in its statement.

https://www.scribd.com/document/378959648/Legal-Analysis-of-Utah-Medical-Marijuana-Initiative#from_embed

[Iceaxe]

And the marijuana initiative just took an LDS torpedo broadside and is sinking fast. No amount of rearranging the deck chairs will save it without the blessing of God's chosen.

[rockgremlin]

Ok, now you're just trolling...:fishing::fishing:

You know my stance on this.

If the LDS church is so concerned about the welfare of everyone in Utah, why didn't they come out years ago in protest about opiates....before thousands of people died of opiate overdoses?

Why can't the church seem to keep their beak out of politics?

Why is the report they commissioned nothing but fiercely negative, not recognizing one iota any benefits of cannabis, even though it has benefited literally millions throughout the ages?

It's articles like this that make me wonder how anybody can claim with a straight face that the LDS church doesn't influence Utah politics.

#separationofchurchandstate

[accadacca]

Of course the LDS Church is involved in Utah politics. They run the freaking state. What percentage is Mormon here?

[Iceaxe]

Of course the LDS Church is involved in Utah politics. They run the freaking state. What percentage is Mormon here?

From a mathematical perspective the issue is not the percentage, it's that the LDS vote in a block.

This block voting creates a huge hurtle to any issue with an opposing view.

[emoji631]

[DirkHammergate]

Ok, now you're just trolling...:fishing::fishing:

You know my stance on this.

If the LDS church is so concerned about the welfare of everyone in Utah, why didn't they come out years ago in protest about opiates....before thousands of people died of opiate overdoses?

Why can't the church seem to keep their beak out of politics?

Why is the report they commissioned nothing but fiercely negative, not recognizing one iota any benefits of cannabis, even though it has benefited literally millions throughout the ages?

It's articles like this that make me wonder how anybody can claim with a straight face that the LDS church doesn't influence Utah politics.

#separationofchurchandstate

Well said. Did you also hear the news that coffee has a real health benefit to your body???

It's interesting how the LDS seems to want to be relevant. It's not relevant anywhere outside Utah, little parts maybe in Idaho and Arizona. It's a marvelous work and a wonder to me how faithful Members don't actually understand that.

[DirkHammergate]

Legal analysis

The 31-point analysis (https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/multimedia/file/Legal-Analysis-of-Utah-Medical-Marijuana-Initiative.pdf) referred to by the LDS Church was completed by Salt Lake law firm Kirton McConkie. Among the report's assertions:
• The initiative would require the state "to destroy records of cannabis sales after 60 days, which will hamper law enforcement."
• The measure would make marijuana "the only serious controlled substance in Utah sold for alleged medicinal purposes without a prescription and outside of licensed pharmacies."
• Illnesses that would qualify a person for a medical cannabis card include "conditions that are difficult to diagnose and can afflict many people in varying degrees, such as 'chronic pain,' which by some estimates includes over 15 (percent) of the population."
• A large amount of marijuana could be recommended by a small group of doctors. (The analysis claims that about 70 percent of such recommendations in Colorado were "at one point" made by fewer than 15 physicians.)
• The initiative "doesn't require physicians … to have any training or experience with the effects of marijuana."
• Marijuana use among youth, per federal research, is "generally significantly higher in states that have legalized recreational and medicinal use."
• The initiative would allow medical cannabis cardholders more than 100 miles from a cannabis dispensary "to grow their own marijuana" and there isn't an enforcement mechanism to ensure they don't possess more than what is otherwise the legal limit.
• Under the initiative, a doctor could "routinely rubber stamp recommendations for a medical cannabis card after a brief visit, or mistakenly recommend marijuana use under conditions where it would do harm," and be legally exempted from civil and criminal liabilities, as well as licensure discipline.
• Marijuana possession would be legalized "before medical cannabis cards are distributed," meaning a person in suspicion of having it for recreational purposes can demonstrate they legally possess it if they are able to show they would be eligible for such a card if they were in circulation.
• The initiative "appears to narrow liability for driving under the influence of marijuana" to include only a person who ingests marijuana while operating a vehicle.
• Possessing marijuana could "affect (an) immigrant if ... he or she applies for a green card, applies for citizenship, or travels outside the United States."

These arguments seem to be written in crayon, many of them are actually fake. Hey, at least they want to protect immigrants. This has Dallin H. Oaks written all over it.

[Iceaxe]

Anyone who has witnessed a loved family member suffer a cruel and brutal death by cancer and also witnessed the temporary relief that marijuana can provide would never oppose it's use. Denying the use of marijuana in certain medical conditions is nothing short of cruel.

[DirkHammergate]

Anyone who has witnessed a loved family member suffer a cruel and brutal death by cancer and also witnessed the temporary relief that marijuana can provide would never oppose it's use. Denying the use of marijuana in certain medical conditions is nothing short of cruel.

Co-signed.

[rockgremlin]

The law firm who completed the analysis was named "Kirton McConkie?" So the law firm was founded by a relative of Bruce R. McConkie -- one of the most stringent and strict General Authorities the LDS has ever seen.

What a shocker...

Bruce R. once claimed that simple playing cards were of Satan, and didn't belong in the home of any worthy priesthood holder.

Seems like a pretty biased report to me...

[DirkHammergate]

The law firm who completed the analysis was named "Kirton McConkie?" So the law firm was founded by a relative of Bruce R. McConkie -- one of the most stringent and strict General Authorities the LDS has ever seen.

What a shocker...

Bruce R. once claimed that simple playing cards were of Satan, and didn't belong in the home of any worthy priesthood holder.

Hey, at least he wasn't a "fence sitter" in the Pre-Existence.

Thanks Obama!

[uintafly]

Anyone who has witnessed a loved family member suffer a cruel and brutal death by cancer and also witnessed the temporary relief that marijuana can provide would never oppose it's use. Denying the use of marijuana in certain medical conditions is nothing short of cruel.

This X2.

I watched my Grandma beat cancer once and when it came back a few years later pass on any treatment, because of how bad treatment was round 1.

I once offered to get some pot for her to see if it would help, but as a God fearing woman she wouldn't break the law. No doubt in my mind that if it was legal she would have tried it. I have no clue if it would have helped, but it sure wouldn't have hurt. As an old hillbilly from Appalachia my father in law was well acquainted with the benefits of pot long before he died of lung cancer, and it sure seemed to help him in the end. Plus is there any better way to have some father in law bonding time than drinking Bud's and sharing a joint around the campfire?

It's craziness to me to be so opposed to something that can offer relief to folks, but at the same time having 0 problem popping Percocet's and the like.

[devo_stevo]

I'm an active "card carrying" member of the church. I signed the petition to get the vote for medical marijuana on the ballot and I stand by that regardless of the church's lawyer's opinion. Let's be honest here, the vast majority of modern prescription medication is horrible. Just watch or listen to all of the advertisements for drugs they are pedaling nowadays. You will likely get a serious infection, have almost no immune system left, or maybe even die from liver failure, but by God, you'll have smooth skin. Or your anti-depressants will make you sadder and you'll want to commit suicide? How is all this crap acceptable?

As far as I'm concerned, marijuana cannot possibly be worse than all of these medications out there and there are legitimate benefits to it with certain illnesses. If someone needs it, give it to them, I say. I have a hard time believing that a loving God would not understand.

Just my opinion, that's all.

[rockgremlin]

^^^ Why can't the legislators see all of this? Why are they so blinded by fear and ignorance?

89542

[devo_stevo]

^^Yes. Yes they are. The concerns addressed in that letter could all be fixed with the proper legislation. That's what laws are for, right?

Like the issues with it being the only controlled substance in Utah to be sold outside of a pharmacy?? Just sell it at pharmacies like any other prescription drug.

My guess is they just don't want to try real hard.

[Sombeech]

I say, don't go ask the LDS church what they think of such and such. That's like asking Oprah what she thinks of guns. Who cares what Oprah thinks, except she is going to influence her fans.

Don't blame the Church for speaking what they preach. Blame the jackass that goes and asks the church in the first place.

The church will always have this position so it's pointless to keep asking then what they think. Quit asking them and just work on passing the law.

My advice is to work harder on passing the law and quit going and asking the church that will keep saying the same thing over and over again no matter how many people change their Facebook profile picture or vote in a poll. Target the people that are asking the church, and then target the people that publish that conversation in the media.

Going after the church is a wasted cause and so much energy, time and money has and will be lost in doing so. Gotta change your strategy. Them boys don't read bogley. They don't look at Facebook poll results. They don't give a shit about your temporary marijuana leaf Facebook profile template.

But they do respect the law. Start there. And next time somebody asks the church again if they've changed their mind, that somebody should lose all credibility.

[Sombeech]

Oh and for arguments sake, let's focus on the "smokeless" pot. If any one of you tries to convince me that it's healthy and natural and good for your body to inhale fumes of smoke from a smoldering plant, please reevaluate your life.

I currently have in my possession some CBD oil, just so you know where I stand. But any jackass that tries to preach their religion of smoking pot will cure the world, quit shoving your religion down my throat, if that'll sound familiar.

It has a time and place. Smoking is not healthy. The extracts do have medicinal value.

Quit acting like a doctor each time you take a puff.

[DirkHammergate]

I'm an active "card carrying" member of the church. I signed the petition to get the vote for medical marijuana on the ballot and I stand by that regardless of the church's lawyer's opinion. Let's be honest here, the vast majority of modern prescription medication is horrible. Just watch or listen to all of the advertisements for drugs they are pedaling nowadays. You will likely get a serious infection, have almost no immune system left, or maybe even die from liver failure, but by God, you'll have smooth skin. Or your anti-depressants will make you sadder and you'll want to commit suicide? How is all this crap acceptable?

As far as I'm concerned, marijuana cannot possibly be worse than all of these medications out there and there are legitimate benefits to it with certain illnesses. If someone needs it, give it to them, I say. I have a hard time believing that a loving God would not understand.

Just my opinion, that's all.

Ironically a majority of Mormon's support the use of MM.

[devo_stevo]

Ironically a majority of Mormon's support the use of MM.
I don't think it's ironic, really. We are better at thinking for ourselves than most people think we are. At least a majority of us are... :)

[tallsteve]

^^This^^

[Sombeech]

Ironically a majority of Mormon's support the use of MM.I would argue the irony lies within the lack of irony to this statement. This shows the stereotype of all Mormons, how they all think 1 way no matter what the opinions are of other Mormons and that these rules are taught every Sunday along with shunning gays and Bitcoin investors.

Here you've got several active Mormons stating opinions of Mormons, and NOBODY listens. They'd rather read carefully crafted headlines from somebody that asked the church leadership for an answer they knew they'd get.

But, most folks prefer to get "inside info" about Mormons and their prejudices from articles instead of believing Mormons that would be willing to talk and answer any question you've got.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[Scott Card]

I believe there are very good and effective benefits to many compounds in the hemp/cannabis plant. I believe that we have the science to extract those compounds. 'Beech mentioned CBD. YES! The problem is that so many people are trying to backdoor getting high piggybacking on a medical argument. If the THC in marijuana has medicinal value then so be it. I for one, having represented way too many DUI clients for THC do not favor legalized marijuana. I have yet to represent one client where marijuana made them smarter. Perhaps that is why it is called dope??? :) I do, however favor science and further studies to determine the value and effectiveness of CBD's. I favor it so much so that I am a member of an independent review board overseeing one of the legal studies for CBD's going on in Utah. It is a quality controlled gel cap that has given people much relief.

One example, my law practice is mostly accident and death cases these days. I am just wrapping up one very large quadriplegic trucking accident out of Kansas that we filed in Denver Federal Court. My client was on 6 opioids a day due to his crushed t-spine. In one month, his opioid usage was cut almost in half using a morning an night dose of CBD. The company that I am involved with is Endo-C. Check it out http://www.endo-c.com/ and check out the study if you are interested. The study is for the purpose of understanding the effects of CBD on pain, anxiety, and sleep. So far, the results are wonderful.

All that being said, the LDS legal opinion is just that, a legal analysis of the law. I do not favor the particular law at issue as it is written for many of the reasons listed in the analysis.

And before any of you start to believe that I am less than sympathetic to those in pain, I became involved in this study because I have a child with chronic pain. I am hoping that CBD or a similar compound is the answer for my child. I just do not think that smoking marijuana is the answer.

[Iceaxe]

The problem is that so many people are trying to backdoor getting high piggybacking on a medical argument. If the THC in marijuana has medicinal value then so be it. I for one, having represented way too many DUI clients for THC do not favor legalized marijuana. I have yet to represent one client where marijuana made them smarter. Perhaps that is why it is called dope??? :)

I understand what you are saying but I believe you are only seeing the little picture and not the big picture.

I prefer to look at pot similar to alcohol. They both have a serious down side.... but... If you legalize pot you can control it and remove organized crime and gangs from the equation. You can also tax the heck out of it and feed the money into drug prevention and rehab programs.

Alcohol was a much bigger problem during prohibition then it is after prohibition. I fail to see why pot would not follow suit if legalized.

[uintafly]

Oh and for arguments sake, let's focus on the "smokeless" pot. If any one of you tries to convince me that it's healthy and natural and good for your body to inhale fumes of smoke from a smoldering plant, please reevaluate your life.

I currently have in my possession some CBD oil, just so you know where I stand. But any jackass that tries to preach their religion of smoking pot will cure the world, quit shoving your religion down my throat, if that'll sound familiar.

It has a time and place. Smoking is not healthy. The extracts do have medicinal value.

Quit acting like a doctor each time you take a puff.

Like Jesus said to Paul "all things in moderation", or maybe that was Allah to Muhammad? I've smoked too much dope over the years to remember the fine details.

As a guy who supports recreational legalization, I too find it hilarious all of the people out there acting like it is the "miracle drug" that can cure everything. There does seem to be benefits for sure, but the rabid pro pot people come off a bit like essential oil salespeople. Plus I know too many every day smokers for anyone to convince me it's good for you long term.

As a mostly non user I support legalization because I don't need some government bureaucrat to try to tell me what I can do in my home.

[rockgremlin]

I would argue the irony lies within the lack of irony to this statement. This shows the stereotype of all Mormons, how they all think 1 way no matter what the opinions are of other Mormons and that these rules are taught every Sunday along with shunning gays and Bitcoin investors.

Here you've got several active Mormons stating opinions of Mormons, and NOBODY listens. They'd rather read carefully crafted headlines from somebody that asked the church leadership for an answer they knew they'd get.

But, most folks prefer to get "inside info" about Mormons and their prejudices from articles instead of believing Mormons that would be willing to talk and answer any question you've got.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


I'm confused about your assertion to "not ask the LDS church..." Well, I didn't. They volunteered their stance. Broadcasted it far and wide via KSL and the other news outlets.

????

I didn't ask the LDS church. Heck I know what they're gonna say. Doesn't everybody? Did I miss something? :ne_nau:

[rockgremlin]

I understand what you are saying but I believe you are only seeing the little picture and not the big picture.

I prefer to look at pot similar to alcohol. They both have a serious down side.... but... If you legalize pot you can control it and remove organized crime and gangs from the equation. You can also tax the heck out of it and feed the money into drug prevention and rehab programs.

Alcohol was a much bigger problem during prohibition then it is after prohibition. I fail to see why pot would not follow suit if legalized.


^^^THIS^^^

This has been my stance all along. Treat it like alcohol. Tax and regulate...because there will NEVER, EVER come a day where we "win the war on drugs," and eradicate marijuana from our state. That is folly. And if you honestly believe that day is on the horizon, then I seriously feel bad for you because you have taken delusion and raised it to an art form.

That said, here's where I stand in bullet form, lest there be any confusion:

1. I'm not claiming pot will make anybody smarter. That too is folly. Similar to alcohol, pot disables cognitive function. But I believe that its usage is beneficial in other aspects (analgesia, anxiety relief, PTSD, easing symptoms of chemo, etc, etc).

2. I'm not under the delusion that the LDS church will one day approve of its use. Does anybody actually believe this?

3. I'm not under the impression that smoking pot will change the world. It has enough beneficial uses that we don't need to resort to hyperbole.

4. I believe that instead of fighting to keep it illegal, we ought to accept that it will always be here and available, and turn that into a source of revenue via taxes. This creates a win-win situation, instead of the lose-lose situation we're currently in. It will never go away. I had friends who smoked it in high school during lunch, and I have friends now (professionals in their fields) that smoke it on occasion. It is easier for kids to access than alcohol.

[Sombeech]

I'm confused about your assertion to "not ask the LDS church..." Well, I didn't. They volunteered their stance. Broadcasted it far and wide via KSL and the other news outlets.

????

I didn't ask the LDS church. Heck I know what they're gonna say. Doesn't everybody? Did I miss something? :ne_nau:Well, like Dirks acknowledgement that most Mormons support medical pot, this should be the answer rather than looking at what the headlines say. If most Mormons support it, then we need to admit there's not a Mormon blockade on the issue. But it does make for a great headline and it gets them clicks.

What about this, what if it was legalized but only if it wasn't smoked? How would that go down? Would everybody agree that the medicinal value would still be present if only the oils and edibles were legal?

Smoking is easy and fast for results but there's nothing healthy about it. Edibles hit in 40 minutes.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[Sombeech]

We may think it's unfairly illegal, but the only way out is to present a benefit.

Legalizing Marijuana will benefit Utah because __________________

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[savanna3313]

We may think it's unfairly illegal, but the only way out is to present a benefit.

Legalizing Marijuana will benefit Utah because __________________

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

I think that it can help steer some people away from an opiate addiction. I've personally seen it happen to two different people in my life. One went into a hospital to medically "detox" from the pain killers she had been on for years - all legally prescribed by doctors (who kept increasing the doses over the years). She has done cannabis treatment since. I know how lethal pills can be for people. I lost my youngest sister to addiction. She didn't overdose, but her liver shut down due to the chronic use of all that medication.

I say, market it, tax it, and give it a chance! Keep the money in state instead of sending it out to CO and NV.

[DirkHammergate]

Well, like Dirks acknowledgement that most Mormons support medical pot, this should be the answer rather than looking at what the headlines say. If most Mormons support it, then we need to admit there's not a Mormon blockade on the issue. But it does make for a great headline and it gets them clicks.

Edibles hit in 40 minutes.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

I have no evidence that Dallin H. Oaks is the driving force behind this but it just seems like something he'd move forward in his new capacity.

[uintafly]

We may think it's unfairly illegal, but the only way out is to present a benefit.

Legalizing Marijuana will benefit Utah because __________________

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


Shouldn't the onus be on the government to continually demonstrate the need for these laws to be on the books? (should go for all laws btw).

[Iceaxe]

...because there will NEVER, EVER come a day where we "win the war on drugs," and eradicate marijuana from our state. That is folly. And if you honestly believe that day is on the horizon, then I seriously feel bad for you because you have taken delusion and raised it to an art form.

Want some major irony?!?

Many liberals want to legalize marijuana for the simple reason it's already here and there is no way in hell you can eradicate it... but... these same liberals sing a completely different tune when it comes to firearms.....

Or.... we can easily flip the script and swap liberal for conservative and flip-flog firearms for marijuana in the post.

Either way you are just barking at the moon, so it seems to me it's better to be pragmatic and make the best of the realistic conditions.

YMMV

[DirkHammergate]

I don't think it's ironic, really. We are better at thinking for ourselves than most people think we are. At least a majority of us are... :)

It's certainly trending that way with youth and millenials who tend to care nothing about orientation or keeping pot illegal. What happens when they start taking leadership roles within the Church. I'm sure there will be some evolution, just naturally.

[rockgremlin]

It's certainly trending that way with youth and millenials who tend to care nothing about orientation or keeping pot illegal. What happens when they start taking leadership roles within the Church. I'm sure there will be some evolution, just naturally.


You know, I've pondered on this extensively. There's going to have to be a change in there somewhere. Nothing remains static. Times are a changin'....

[erial]

I think the edibles are hitting in 40 seconds. TallSteve wrote ^^This^^ and to the right of his post was a photo of Hillary. And that same photo showed up twice on page 2. Far out, man.

[double moo]

My wife takes the CBD for chronic isssues. At her last Dr. visit she told him she had been trying it for months. He said he was glad she told him. Noted that here in the state of Utah he could loose his license for recommending it... but if the patient brings it up he is allowed to counsel - said to keep it up!

[Sombeech]

I think that it can help steer some people away from an opiate addiction.

Kratom is also a fairly new herb on the market and it's famous, or infamous for easing the opiate withdrawals. I've personally taken it, and it works better than anything I've tried, even Marijuana. But, wouldn't you know it, it's coming under swift attach from the big pharma companies. Big money is pushing the lawmakers to classify this Kratom leaf as an opiate.

But anyways, back to the Marijuana topic.

[accadacca]

Boy did the topic strike a nerve.

Doctrine & Covenants Section 89

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

Pass the Cheetos...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY6ghH8ax1I&app=desktop

[rockgremlin]

Boy did the topic strike a nerve.

Yes, ironically it's something that many, many Utahns are passionate about. The KSL article had somewhere near 500 comments!! :eek2: That's an unbelievable amount of public reaction.


BTW, the original link you posted has been corrupted and is now linking a shopping site...

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180922/b7b8d39ed8c32cb30f084e97ebe4531f.png

[rockgremlin]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180922/b7b8d39ed8c32cb30f084e97ebe4531f.png

LOL...wow!!!

I never thought I'd see the day but this proposition has legs and a HUGE margin of support here in Utah.

Like it or hate it, it think it's actually going to pass.

[Iceaxe]

Like it or hate it, it think it's actually going to pass.

If it passes Herby and his cronies will find a way to torpedo it.

If you follow Herbert's double talk he already has plans to sink the intuitive if it passss.



Climb-Utah.com

[Sombeech]

If it passes Herby and his cronies will find a way to torpedo it.

If you follow Herbert's double talk he already has plans to sink the intuitive if it passss.



What if they say Marijuana was responsible for causing guys to grope girls at high school parties 36 years ago? No way it could pass then.

[DirkHammergate]

What if they say Marijuana was responsible for causing guys to grope girls at high school parties 36 years ago? No way it could pass then.

That's what Alcohol does. Makes young dudes crazy.

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181107/e4185564d16a8b591379c97eb85d8987.jpg

[accadacca]

Long lines of pot heads. Lol

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181107/c007c146073d56fe1803ed44ca9e5305.jpg

[AllanLisa]

It's interesting to see that the LDS Church commissioned a legal analysis on the proposed Utah medical marijuana initiative, and it's definitely raising some concerns.

[TomOlson]

I can see how some of the points in the analysis could be concerning, but at the same time, it's important to consider the potential benefits of medical marijuana for individuals who suffer from chronic pain and other difficult-to-diagnose conditions. I believe everyone should have access to safe and effective treatments that can improve their quality of life.On a related note, I recently came across an article about CBD oil and its potential benefits for pain relief. It's definitely worth a read for anyone interested in exploring alternative treatments. Here's the link: https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/heres-what-makes-this-200-year-old-heirloom-best-cbd-for-relief

[roshnikhanna]

I believe there are very good and effective benefits to many compounds in the hemp/cannabis plant.