At least 27 dead in church shooting today

[Scott P]

A woman who said she works at a gas station across the street from the church told ABC News she heard rapid gunfire around 11:15 a.m.

Congregants fled the church and ran to the station cowering for cover, she said.

“We heard several shots and we all started running inside the store,” said the woman, who said she is 49 but declined to give her name.

“It lasted about 15 seconds," she said. "I yelled, ‘Get down! Get inside!’ and we all went into hiding.”
Within minutes of the gunfire, emergency personnel arrived at the scene, she said.

She said the gas station locked its doors and has not reopened.

A church turns into a crime scene

The First Baptist Church is an unassuming, white building with a red-hued door, with numerous flags in front, including an American flag and one for the Lone Star State. It’s on what appears to be a dusty road in a rural area.

Police formed a perimeter around the church and flooded its grounds with emergency and police vehicles, according to ABC affiliate KSAT-TV in San Antonio (https://www.ksat.com/). Agents from the FBI (http://abcnews.go.com/topics/news/us/federal-bureau-of-investigation.htm) and ATF have responded to the scene.

More:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/texas-church-scene-shooting-report-192705171--abc-news-topstories.html

[Iceaxe]

The shooter was dishonestly discharged from the military, which means he was NOT legally allowed to possess firearms...

....just putting that out there because you just know the first thing out of the left will be we need more gun laws.

Criminals don't obey laws...

This is a mental health issue and not a gun issue.... we need to fix our health care system....

[itsgreta]

OMG, this is so sad, and once again it's the civilians that have been the victims. I hope that justice will prevail.

[Iceaxe]

As more facts come out it appears the main reason this attack was not worse or did not escalate further is that an armed citizen engaged and killed the shooter.

Sheriff: Congregants were helpless to escape church gunfire
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=46193180&nid=1016

[Iceaxe]

And here is a picture of one of the hero's (Johnnie Langendorff) that took out the Texas church shooter. Stephen Willeford, a 55 y/o plumber was the other.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171106/fa7639bfccc36a26495fb0e92001b7c9.jpg

[oldno7]

Heres the other hero.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4HEchh0XD8

great interview, very humble man.

[tallsteve]

Ah, you beat me to it. I found this same interview this morning and just finished watching it. This guy is a hero in every sense of the word.

[Iceaxe]

Did they mention that Willieford is an NRA member and certified NRA shooting instructor?

[oldno7]

Did they mention that Willieford is an NRA member and certified NRA shooting instructor?

yes, he did mention it.

[oldno7]

this guy slipped through far to many cracks.
He should have been in jail and at a minimum, denied a firearm purchase.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/23280/why-hell-wasnt-he-jail-texas-shooter-escaped-ben-shapiro#

[Brian in SLC]

this guy slipped through far to many cracks.
He should have been in jail and at a minimum, denied a firearm purchase.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/23280/why-hell-wasnt-he-jail-texas-shooter-escaped-ben-shapiro#

I bet the lawyers are linin' up for this faux pas...

Was in Van Wagonen's (I miss that place) when the owner turned a feisty, cocky little dude down for a rifle. The guy insisted he call back and ask why. The guy was so loud about it, that Norm shrugged, picked up the phone, made the call and announced so the interested masses in the store could hear, "they say it was for a domestic...you have a history of a restraining order" or some such. The guy goes, "oh that". And slunk right on outa there. Hilarious.

So, yeah, if the data is in the data base, the system works.

Still, I get nervous when my FFL guy (lives about 3 minutes away) makes that phone call. He with the MAGA hat.

And "someone's" dad says to me, "now, how come you don't have your CCW?" Reminds me of Hank Hill's dad Cotton. Ha ha. Yeah, I know...make the phone call...

Anyhow...tragic deal. I think we're gettin' numb to it all...

[itsgreta]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5057457/Mother-died-shielding-four-children-Texas-shooting.html

She used herself as a shield to protect her children.

[Iceaxe]

And "someone's" dad says to me, "now, how come you don't have your CCW?" Reminds me of Hank Hill's dad Cotton. Ha ha. Yeah, I know...make the phone call...

As I was reading this the first question to pop into my head was "why don't you have a CCW?"

And for those playing along at home who don't understand.... a CCW allows you to skip the background check and assorted fees. The reasoning being you already passed a background check and you're in the system with a check mark in the good guy with a gun box.

Lots of other good reasons to have a CCW, even if you don't plan to carry.

[tallsteve]

As I was reading this the first question to pop into my head was "why don't you have a CCW?"

And for those playing along at home who don't understand.... a CCW allows you to skip the background check and assorted fees. The reasoning being you already passed a background check and you're in the system with a check mark in the good guy with a gun box.

Lots of other good reasons to have a CCW, even if you don't plan to carry.

Yup. I bought a new .22 carbine at Gunnies just last week. I showed them my CCW permit card, they called it in and 5 minutes later I was walking out the door with my purchase. Easy-peasy.

[tallsteve]

Ok, question for you folks who own an AR. In the interview with the hero above, he mentions that when he grabbed his AR15 out of his safe, he grabbed a magazine and a box of shells and loaded and/or had his daughter load the shells into the magazine. He doesn't say it but, I'm assuming that took some precious time. He had to load the magazine again when he was chasing after the guy while driving down the road. Just curious what every other AR owner does but, for this very reason, I keep several magazines already loaded with ammo and ready to grab within a matter of seconds. I probably have a dozen or more magazines, a mixture of 20 and 30 capacity Magpul P-Mags. The majority of these magazines are stored in an ammo can made with foam cutouts which hold the magazines upright. When I open the can, I can easily see what ammo type is loaded in each magazine. I also have 3 magazines stored in my AR case (a soft sided Condor), each already loaded. So, If I'm really in a hurry, I could just grab the case and go which would give me 90 rounds of pre-loaded ammo, plus I keep a box of 50 rounds in the bag as well. I just figure if I'm ever in that situation I want to be able to grab and go and not have to fiddle around with loading magazines. What does every else do?

[oldno7]

IF I were to own one of those mean, nasty black guns, I would certainly want to be able to use it in seconds, not minutes.(hypothetically speaking)

[Iceaxe]

What good are a bunch of magazines if they are not loaded?

If the initial firefight becomes a matter of speed, volume or suppression I'm prepared to win, everyone else will be playing for second place.

:cool2:

[tallsteve]

What good are a bunch of magazines if they are not loaded?

If the initial firefight becomes a matter of speed, volume or suppression I'm prepared to win, everyone else will be playing for second place.

:cool2:

Exactly. I'm certainly not looking for a fight and hope to heaven it's never needed but, if I had to go quickly, just by grabbing my gun case and 1 ammo can with the pre-loaded magazines, I figure I have roughly 360 rounds that are loaded up and ready to send down range. I also carry 2 boxes of ammo in my Jeep at all times (but no extra magazines).

[Sombeech]

Was in Van Wagonen's (I miss that place) when the owner turned a feisty, cocky little dude down for a rifle.

What many people don't know, is this guy was already breaking the law because of his priors.

As Trey Gowdy explains in the video, it is illegal to seek a firearm with certain priors on your record, and even though (thankfully) the guy was refused service, he should have been prosecuted as well. So many of these felons are only turned down from service, and should also be prosecuted. This is why we don't need additional gun laws to neglect, as we've got so many we aren't prosecuting on already.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_6FCpRDCv4

[Brian in SLC]

IF I were to own one of those mean, nasty black guns, I would certainly want to be able to use it in seconds, not minutes.(hypothetically speaking)

The scenario that played out in my head would be...ok, geez, what's the combo to my safe again...dang it...ok, slow down...got it...uhh...ok, uhh, which one? Dang it....308 or 223...although that AK just got a new trigger...close quarters...maybe grab that Benelli too...

I know a number of guys who have a ready "bug out bag". Not a bad idear if you have a good, safe place to store it.

Personally, and, hypothetically speaking (!), I don't leave a bunch of hardware unlocked. To me, and, having had a home break in before, it's not worth that risk.

That said, I keep a few mag's loaded. My standard AR is a Colt 6720 with an M4 mil-dot (with a few other options available...). Not the best trigger...but... Had I the choice to do what the feller had to do...I'd grab my big game rifle. Wouldn't matter what kind of body armor the guy was wearing, the bullet would just pull it through his body (or leave him a gelatinous mass of goo). Plus, its wicked accurate and has a very fine trigger. And, I've seen what it can do on a live critter. I wouldn't care to get in a "spray and pray" situation in a neighborhood.

Unfortunately, this kind of thing fuels the Rambo up in even the best of us. Had the bad guy not had access to that kind of firepower...and he shouldn't have. Sure where there's a will there's a way but these a-holes have it too easy when it comes to this.

[twotimer]

I wouldn't be surprised if this bonehead didn't get the idea for this from The Kingsmen.

[oldno7]

Heres more liberals going off the deep end...

Gotta get me sum chainsaw bayonet.

http://freebeacon.com/issues/usa-today-warns-of-chainsaw-bayonet-ar-15-attachments/

[Sombeech]

Heres more liberals going off the deep end...

Gotta get me sum chainsaw bayonet.

http://freebeacon.com/issues/usa-today-warns-of-chainsaw-bayonet-ar-15-attachments/

WHAT? ha ha ha omg, they really said that.

I'm outta bullets, so you stay right there and hold still while I start this chainsaw up. Gimme a minute.

If I eventually get an ebike, I'm going to put a chainsaw attachment on it to cut down the trees and ride over them without needing to get off of the bike.

[oldno7]

Because the fbi crime data is getting over run with people getting killed by ar 15's and then chopped up with chainsaw attachement.

And yes, there is a chainsaw attachment:crazy:

[oldno7]

In case someone doesn't have one yet(who doesn't have a chainsaw bayonet)?

https://www.panaceax.com/weaponized-chainsaw/copy-of-zxcs-chain-saw-in-coyote-brown

Should be a great stocking stuffer.

[rockgremlin]

88116

[oldno7]

But wait--theres other cool stuff

https://ar15builds.com/reviews/8-ridiculous-ar-15-accessories/

[oldno7]

I just hope they don't consider banning these.

[tallsteve]

I do lots of chainsawing for the US Forest Service. I'm thinking that chainsaw attachment would work really well on my AR15 build and kill 2 birds with 1 stone (literally). Man, I could take care of bear attacks, attacking forest ninjas, e-bike riders and cut out the deadfall! I can't enter my credit card info fast enough!

88120

[oldno7]

..,

[oldno7]

,.,.,

[oldno7]

.,.,.

[Sombeech]

OMG :lol8:

[Scott P]

88126

[Iceaxe]

The amount of incompetence involved in this entire tragedy is mind numbing.

Police knew 'madman' had illegal guns before killing rampage
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=46198448&nid=157

[Sombeech]

The amount of incompetence involved in this entire tragedy is mind numbing.

Police knew 'madman' had illegal guns before killing rampage
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=46198448&nid=157

Wait, so they even made it illegal for this guy to have guns, and they didn't melt away or walk themselves to the court house?

[Sombeech]

Here's why Gun Control laws don't work, because they don't get prosecuted.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0TJpub1oVs

[Iceaxe]

^^^That has been one of the NRA's talking points for years.... we don't need more laws, we just need to enforce the laws already on the books.

[Iceaxe]

If Joe Biden had his way, Stephen Willeford, the hero who stopped the Texas shooter, wouldn’t have had his gun at all.

This is the same Joe Biden that will likely make a presidential run in 2020.’s America.


https://www.nraila.org/articles/20171117/joe-biden-hero-who-ended-texas-rampage-shouldn-t-have-had-his-gun

[Sombeech]

If Joe Biden had his way, Stephen Willeford, the hero who stopped the Texas shooter, wouldn’t have had his gun at all.

This is the same Joe Biden that will likely make a presidential run in 2020.’s America.


What an absolute jackass.