Mass Shooting in Las Vegas at Country Music Festival

[Sombeech]

Wow, I woke up to this horrifying news as I'm sure most of you have this morning.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46015014

At least 50 dead and 200 injured, as the single gunman opened fire from his Mandalay Bay balcony that looked down upon the large concert crowd. I've seen a few videos and that guy certainly planned out a method of maximum destruction.

Crazy. I wonder if we knew anybody down there this weekend.

I felt helpless as I heard these large caliber shots ring out. Horrifying.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gVf11wSzPY

[Sombeech]

You can clearly hear the shots are fully automatic. For those saving up their quotes from Google and Facebook ready for an argument, hold off for a bit. I'm going to make a crazy assumption that this guy didn't have the permits to make or obtain fully automatic weapons, so the stricter laws on such weaponry would have zero effect.

Calling for an all out gun ban would not have made this dude hand his guns in.

There has got to be better solutions out there, but this has shown that even if you remove 99% of all guns, it just takes 1 dude with a gun to cause this destruction. There is no law or procedure that can remove 100% of guns.

Sad deal, I keep watching other videos and I'm horrified.

I saw 1 tough guy standing up and giving the shooter the bird, until the shots rang out again, and his beer didn't give him enough courage to keep from ducking back down.

[Sombeech]

http://youtu.be/pY4K4U9TtX8

[Sombeech]

Jeez, of course now ISIS is claiming responsibility.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJGHT18isiE

[Brian in SLC]

Honestly...can't get my head around it. No sane person would ever do that.

Sad. Condolences to anyone affected by this. I know folks at work still trying to contact relatives that were at the concert. Heartbreaking...

[Sombeech]

I'm watching a live conference now, the Police Chief is describing the process of looking up at the window from the outside and then estimating what inside floor it's coming from, and then closing in on the exact room, it's more difficult than we would assume, as we can't always tell what floor it is from the outside.

Death toll is now 58.

[Iceaxe]

Hillary has already come out and stated this shooting is the fault of the NRA and Trump. That was sure nice of her, at least we all know who to blame in this time of crisis. It's even more amazing that she has been able to discover the root cause of this 'deplorable' act before the blood has even dried.

:roll:

[nelsonccc]

We were in bed but my partner and his wife and daughter were there and by all accounts it was horrific and he's very concerned about what his daughter witnessed. Traffic was insane this morning and it looked like they had all the off ramps to the stirp off of the 215 and 15 closed. I've got meetings at the Mandalay Bay and Bellagio today and both have been cancelled. Insane, still trying to wrap my arms around it.

[Sombeech]

Jeez look at this report, at the time they thought only 2 were dead and 24 injured.

It gives a better explanation of the location though, the distance the shooter had was pretty far, shooting from Mandalay Bay all the way across the BLVD to the opposite side.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-otJ1LJGzcc

[Scott P]

The shooting is extremely sad and tragic, but another sad thing is that a lot of people are sitting there trying to figure out which political party (if any) the shooter belongs to so they can immediately point the finger and make a big deal of it.

[tallsteve]

The shooting is extremely sad and tragic, but another sad thing is that a lot of people are sitting there trying to figure out which political party (if any) the shooter belongs to so they can immediately point the finger and make a big deal of it.

It won't matter. If he's found to be a Democrat, then the MSM and the Democrat heads of state will claim Trump and Republicans drove him to it and he'll be made a pariah. If he's a Republican then, of course, all Republicans are a ticking time-bomb and they hate everyone just like this dude. Either way it's Trump, the Republicans and the NRA's fault somehow.

[Sombeech]

Yeah the ISIS credit could be a total false flag.

Unfortunately, whichever way this ISIS link goes, there will be relief on one political side, and more unrest on the opposite.

If there is an ISIS link, there will be relief from the conservatives, understandably it provides an easier target and explanation. But at the same time, there will be further unrest on the Left, as they would really love Islam Extremists to be less and less associated with these things, and focus more on guns in general.

If ISIS is not related, an inaudible "ah crap" will be felt by the Right, and the Left will have more legitimacy to the theory that ISIS is not the true enemy.

https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Video/201710/tdy_news_vegas_shooting_pete_williams_suspect_kill ed_171002__191130.today-vid-canonical-featured-desktop.jpg

[gholt]

Totally sucks either way when people shoot and kill other humans to stop all their own internal suffering.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[rockgremlin]

Check out the differences in reporting styles between FoxNews and FakeNews:

CNN
87783







FOXNEWS
87784

[Brian in SLC]

Check out the differences in reporting styles between FoxNews and FakeNews:

Can't really see you pics that well...here's the current:

87785

87786

I'm curious what your point is?

[uintafly]

It won't matter. If he's found to be a Democrat, then the MSM and the Democrat heads of state will claim Trump and Republicans drove him to it and he'll be made a pariah. If he's a Republican then, of course, all Republicans are a ticking time-bomb and they hate everyone just like this dude. Either way it's Trump, the Republicans and the NRA's fault somehow.

I don't know, it seems to me that both sides are equally bad at this. Just imagine the nut jobs name was Mohamed. What would the narrative on Fox be?

The sad reality is that their are nutjobs from all walks of life and every political persuasion.

[Iceaxe]

Check out the differences in reporting styles between FoxNews and FakeNews:


CNN has stopped being a news source and has instead become an advocate..... they are currently using fear in an attempt to further the lefts agenda, which is ultimately strict gun control and abolishment of the second amendment.

[rockgremlin]

Can't really see you pics that well...here's the current:

87785

87786

I'm curious what your point is?


Just an observation. I'm staying unaffiliated in this one. At this point I just think it's interesting how the different media outlets choose to report.

[Scott Card]

CNN has stopped being a news source and has instead become an advocate..... they are currently using fear in an attempt to further the lefts agenda, which is ultimately strict gun control and abolishment of the second amendment.

CNN's and the anti gun folk's logic escapes me. :crazy: Fear makes me want to buy more guns, not turn mine in......

[Brian in SLC]

CNN has stopped being a news source and has instead become an advocate..... they are currently using fear in an attempt to further the lefts agenda, which is ultimately strict gun control and abolishment of the second amendment.

Which is exactly the tactic the "right" fake news uses...fear that your guns are going to be taken away by liberals.

Both sides feed this beast, to be sure.

Brietbart will have the gunman worshiping at a mosque soon enough. Obviously, the guy's girlfriend is from the PI, and, we'll know soon enough that he was aligned with ISIS.

Pat Robertson already has this thing figured out...

[Brian in SLC]

Just an observation. I'm staying unaffiliated in this one. At this point I just think it's interesting how the different media outlets choose to report.

I think if you look "above the fold" and the other highlights, at least I can see that they're pretty similar at least on the front page.

Here's the highlights from breitbart:

CBS exec not sympathetic to victims...

Celebrities rush to call for gun control...

"Durn tootin', great shootin'" Richard Dawkins mocks...

[rockgremlin]

Breitbart is the worst, most unobjective news source in existence.



87787

[twotimer]

About 10 years ago I worked at a 17,000sf mansion/ranch that was under construction up by Steamboat Springs. The guy who owned it was a wealthy oral surgeon here in Denver...he's also a big game hunter. He travels to Africa and other places two times a year. He has a huge "game room" of very large animals. He shot a giraffe and a hippo to relieve boredom while he was "waiting" to bag a cheetah...his words. He has two very exotic looking monkeys in the bath room with giant, blue balls that he calls "conversation pieces". I don't have anything against hunters, but this dude had a gnarly vibe about it.

Anyway, while I was working up there I found a bunch of these horrible, smut dvd's that he had in the bunkhouse that I moved into. Things like "Death at your Feet", where the thrill is to get the animal to charge you and it'll die as you stand your ground after shooting it. They were made in Africa by some dude named Mark, who obviously bribed someone over there to be able to make this crap. There was one that said "Watch us slaughter 30 water buffalo in 15 seconds".

I never really liked the guy, but his money was good. I especially disliked him after finding his death porn.

There're some sick, twisted souls out there, folks.

[nelsonccc]

Breitbart is the worst, most unobjective news source in existence.



87787

Buzzfeed is way over to the left then they show. Yahoo, Google and CNN are also skewed farther to the liberal side than they show (IMHO). Also I got almost all my news from Allsides.com and Drudge and it's fascinating to see the difference in a topic from the left vs the right. I will admit to occasionally tapping into Breitbart and The Blaze. Used to listen to NPR everyday for hours while working and it got so bad with the Trump bashing during the election that I've not listened since.

[nelsonccc]

[QUOTE=rockgremlin;589344]Breitbart is the worst, most unobjective news source in existence.

That's why I really like Allsides.com. It's one of the few site where you can sort by topic and read both sides and hopefully get a gist of what the f*ck really happened.

[Scott P]

Death toll up to at least 59 deaths with at least 500 injured. :sad:

[BruteForce]

I was up when this story broke real time and had the news on. While I wasn't watching, I could hear the gun shots and I woke the wife and said something to the effect of: Do you hear that? Multiple gun shots and one of them is a fully automatic and likely belt fed machine gun.

I'm not a tin-foil hat wearing guy, but something isn't quite adding up on this story; 16 guns, tons of ammo, but the guy shot himself the moment cops made entry?? If there was indeed a fully automatic or even fully auto belt-fed machine gun, there'd be no need for the extra hardware unless the guy was planning on shooting out until the end.

In any case, super tragic and tragic that the press and agenda-pushers have already politicized this before corpses have left the morgue.

[accadacca]

Horrible tragedy.

[BruteForce]

Updated: Now 23 firearms at the hotel room! Really? That's a ton of luggage bags to haul up and to what end? I heard at least two distinct long guns and one was fully auto.

[Brian in SLC]

Yeah, word has the smoke alarm went off due to all the "gunsmoke" and that helped the cops find his room...

[Iceaxe]

Boom.... and the bitch is gone....

CBS fires vice president who said Vegas victims didn't deserve sympathy because country music fans 'often are Republican'.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/10/02/top-cbs-lawyer-no-sympathy-for-vegas-vics-probably-republicans.html

[2065toyota]

So how does the FBI can rule out the guy has no relationship with ISIS in under 12 hours, but they are still looking at Trump after 9 months to see if he is related to Russia

[Iceaxe]

:-)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171003/cce1d83394c7ee02489c066366fbaad7.jpg

[rockgremlin]

^^^ Looks like Nicholas Cage.

[Sombeech]

:-)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171003/cce1d83394c7ee02489c066366fbaad7.jpg

This guy jumped right back down on his belly as soon as he heard the shots starting up again.

Not to mention, if the shooter saw him and wanted to take him out, spraying bullets in his direction and tagging those around him.

[rockgremlin]

I think it was erroneously reported that there was a "sniper" perched above the crowd. A fully automatic assault rifle is not a sniper rifle -- not by a damn sight (pun intended).

But then again, this is the same media who thinks every gun is either a glock or an AR-15....

87846



...and it's also the same media that guaranteed a Hillary Clinton victory. :lol8:

[uintafly]

Speaking of nut jobs, Pat Robertson has weighed in. http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/10/03/heres-what-pat-robertson-blames-for-the-las-vegas-shooting/

This is actually pretty tame for him. Is his "It's the gays fault!" shtick too played out now?

[middlefork]

Seems like pretty long shot streams for AR /SK type weapons. My guess is more than 30 round bursts. Do they make drum magazines for them?
Seems like the first few shots were to verify range and then fire for effect.

[rockgremlin]

Seems like pretty long shot streams for AR /SK type weapons. My guess is more than 30 round bursts. Do they make drum magazines for them?
Seems like the first few shots were to verify range and then fire for effect.

That's what I was thinking.

Seems a pretty impersonal way to kill. Crouched in a darkened room full of gunsmoke, spraying bullets in the general direction of the fleeing masses. Muffled shrieks and screams for help will let you know if you're within range. Keep the trigger finger busy until sounds at the door indicate they're onto you...then turn the muzzle around and snuggle it up to your temple...boom, done.


It must've been crazy loud. If I can hear my neighbor's TV blaring in the room next door, there's a really good chance the sound of assault rifles and broken windows resonated down at least 2-3 rooms in all directions. Wonder what they were thinking? Call 911? Call the front desk? Call next of kin?

[Sombeech]

This is actually pretty tame for him. Is his "It's the gays fault!" shtick too played out now?

Did he really say that? Who is this guy anyways

[uintafly]

Did he really say that? Who is this guy anyways

Just a nutty televangelist that one of my coworkers loves.

He likes to chime in after every disaster to lay blame. Typically it is the gays or abortion. This time it seems to be just a general disrespect for our anthem, flag and president.

By the way, when did we switch from coming together after a tragedy to pointing fingers and laying blame? Didn't we all love each other after 9/11? I seem to remember Bush having some insane approval rating around 90% at the time. Kinda sad really.

[rockgremlin]

By the way, when did we switch from coming together after a tragedy to pointing fingers and laying blame? Didn't we all love each other after 9/11? I seem to remember Bush having some insane approval rating around 90% at the time. Kinda sad really.


Well, big difference between a shooting by some random whacko and our country being violently attacked by terrorists. The magnitude of destruction on 911 was unprecedented.

IIRC the Pulse shooting didn't cause Obama's ratings to skyrocket either...

[Brian in SLC]

This guy jumped right back down on his belly as soon as he heard the shots starting up again.

Not to mention, if the shooter saw him and wanted to take him out, spraying bullets in his direction and tagging those around him.

There were real heroes...

87847

Quite a number of folks put themselves in harm's way to help the injured.

[rockgremlin]

^^^^That tall guy with boots on is wrenching his left ankle, the guy with a ball cap in front in barefooted, and is that girl wearing only socks?


It's refreshing to see how people can pull together and sacrifice self for strangers in situations like these. It restores my faith in humanity.

[Iceaxe]

Seems like pretty long shot streams for AR /SK type weapons. My guess is more than 30 round bursts. Do they make drum magazines for them?
Seems like the first few shots were to verify range and then fire for effect.

22,000 people tightly packed into an inescapable kill box and fired upon for over 10 minutes from an elevated vantage point. I'm actually surprised the number of dead is not a lot higher.

I understand the shooter was using a "Bump Stock" which basically turns a semi-auto into a full auto in a crude way. Bump stocks are legal. Same with drum magazines which can hold up to 100 bullets.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U6tORrODJE


https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1405/6094/products/RWB_AR15100_530x388.jpg?v=1490016995

[BruteForce]

**WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT**

So, now photos have been leaked of the purported shooter. He seems oddly good at a solid head shot in death. A note visible on the counter and the room strewn with spent ammo and multiple weapons. Why does this just not "feel right" to me?
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.**Graphic Content Ahead **

[Iceaxe]

Improvise, adapt and overcome.

Marine vet steals truck and saves dozens during Las Vegas massacre

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2017/10/03/marine-vet-steals-truck-and-saves-dozens-in-las-vegas/

[rockgremlin]

BruteForce- great photo, thanks. But just what is it that is troubling you about all of this? You seem to be hinting at some sort of cover up or conspiracy.

The suicide shot looks pretty clean to me. I frequent several gore sites that post images like this and the image you posted looks pretty typical of someone who places a loaded 0.45 or 0.357 at the roof of the mouth and pulls the trigger. You can even see what appear to be powder burns on his chin and cheeks.

Were you thinking he put an AR in his mouth? Cuz if he did, it would've blown the top of his head clean off.

[twotimer]

I think this guy had it all planned out and it wasn't too hard to set it up. I think they've already seen the security video of him bringing all the stuff in.

The "conspiracy" may be that there was another shooter that got away.

[accadacca]

This map shows where Americans are most likely to be killed by gun violence

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171004/375663b13856c12c4cddd9f5b4318460.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171004/2a8669672dde65d54e6d9eeba44202a5.jpg

[BruteForce]

rockgremlin.. what bothers me is I heard 2x long rifles, one of which was full auto. Those on the ground heard shots from up high and from low. Guy has 23 guns in the room, but if he was solo.. why? You don't bring that many guns unless you intend to shoot out to the death, not to put a revolver inside your mouth once Police start making entry.

Guy was rich.. gambling bug. Not your typical mass murderer..

[twotimer]

@rockgremlin (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=5).. what bothers me is I heard 2x long rifles, one of which was full auto. Those on the ground heard shots from up high and from low. Guy has 23 guns in the room, but if he was solo.. why? You don't bring that many guns unless you intend to shoot out to the death, not to put a revolver inside your mouth once Police start making entry.

Guy was rich.. gambling bug. Not your typical mass murderer..You're thinking too rationally...crazy people do crazy things.

He was one smart cookie to have made such a fortune but been a miserable bum at the same time. This thing is going to be studied to the Nth degree, being the biggest ever. I think they'll find the event or "moment" when things went south for this guy.

He was just a shitty loser who wanted to leave a giant, shitty footprint. I'd say he surrounded himself with all that hardware to psych himself up. But in the end, he was a pussy.

[hank moon]

https://youtu.be/dplpWIpofHI

[oldno7]

how to make an ar fully auto(video)

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/22285260_130927400813527_4981073087287001088_n.mp4
https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/22285260_130927400813527_4981073087287001088_n.mp4

[rockgremlin]

how to make an ar fully auto(video)

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/22285260_130927400813527_4981073087287001088_n.mp4
https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/22285260_130927400813527_4981073087287001088_n.mp4


Surprised this link still works. It looks like there's an effort to get rid of links that demonstrate how to do this. I see that YouTube link Ice posted about bump stocks has been taken down.

[Sombeech]

**WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT**

So, now photos have been leaked of the purported shooter. He seems oddly good at a solid head shot in death. A note visible on the counter and the room strewn with spent ammo and multiple weapons. Why does this just not "feel right" to me?
.

That's strange, the casing laying on the blood, had to have fallen there AFTER the pool of blood was there.

If it rolled into it, it would have blood on it. Strange. How does the guy shoot himself, fall, bleed out, and then a fresh unstained bullet casing lay directly on top of it moments later, without rolling into it?

I guess of course unless the blood was dried and the casing was kicked there when the team busted into the room.

Strange though, that part doesn't add up.

[Sombeech]

There's a very, VERY poor attempt at a conspiracy floating around, saying this guy would have had this and that license to have a fully automatic rifle, through this and that process.

We all know it's possible to convert a semi auto into a fully auto with the right instructions. This guy didn't get permits for it. He either bought them from an illegitimate source or made them himself.

[rockgremlin]

That's strange, the casing laying on the blood, had to have fallen there AFTER the pool of blood was there.

If it rolled into it, it would have blood on it. Strange. How does the guy shoot himself, fall, bleed out, and then a fresh unstained bullet casing lay directly on top of it moments later, without rolling into it?

I guess of course unless the blood was dried and the casing was kicked there when the team busted into the room.

Strange though, that part doesn't add up.


It appears the blood seeped into the carpet underneath where the bullets already lay.

[uintafly]

You're thinking too rationally...crazy people do crazy things.

He was one smart cookie to have made such a fortune but been a miserable bum at the same time. This thing is going to be studied to the Nth degree, being the biggest ever. I think they'll find the event or "moment" when things went south for this guy.

He was just a shitty loser who wanted to leave a giant, shitty footprint. I'd say he surrounded himself with all that hardware to psych himself up. But in the end, he was a pussy.

Yeah, he may just be a psychopath. I remember reading about how Dylan Klebold was a typical school shooter that was pissed off and wanted revenge, but Eric Harris wasn't really pissed. He was just a psychopath that wanted to become infamous. He actually looked down at typical school shooters because he felt superior to everyone and figured he could commit the biggest act of murder in U.S. history. Luckily his plan failed, but he originally wanted to blow up the entire school and then have car bombs set to go off a few hours later once news media and 1st responders were on site. he just wanted to be famous. Maybe this dipshit is the same. I have a feeling we are never going to know though.

[Sombeech]

It appears the blood seeped into the carpet underneath where the bullets already lay.

Ah, makes sense, at a first glance I thought that was a hard floor, but the casing was there and the blood seeped under it. OK, conspiracy busted lol

[middlefork]

The guns in the picture seem to have standard 30 or 20 round magazines. Anybody know how to slow down one of the videos of the shooting and count the number of shots before he pauses to reload? There does not seem to even be enough pause to account for reversing taped together magazines.
Also makes me wonder why the shooting only lasted 10 minutes or so when it took responders almost 30 minutes to find the room.

[Iceaxe]

It actually took 72 minutes from the time of the first 911 call until police breached the shooters room.

Taped together magazines are for the movies, kind of like holding your pistol sideways. Notice when you see actual combat footage of our troops they never have magazines taped together as they tend to collect debris and cause jams.

[rockgremlin]

Also makes me wonder why the shooting only lasted 10 minutes or so when it took responders almost 30 minutes to find the room.


It's a good question. If it took police 72 minutes to breach the shooter's door...then why didn't the shooting go on for 72 minutes? He could've killed hundreds.

[Sombeech]

I wonder if there were any gun holders shooting back with their handguns, without a chance in hell, but I wonder if that stalled the shootings, or if he just plumb ran out of ammo.

But then again, they say he was dead when they broke in, so maybe he killed himself only 15 minutes after shooting.

[Sombeech]

And the thing about crazy drugs, they can last for a little bit, but this wasn't a little bit of time. He acquired the guns, he packed them, loaded them up, planned on the room he was staying in, planned how to knock out the hardened glass window.

A usual trip, whatever you're on, isn't going to be an excuse to go through days and days of planning. He didn't pick up all of these guns within a 30 minute high.

[rockgremlin]

I read he brought gobs of ammo. I doubt he ran out.

The thing I wanna know is....was there a second shooter? If you look at the 32nd floor, you'll notice not one, but two windows broken out. Two shooters could have easily been firing at once just as BruteForce was implying earlier. Otherwise, why break out two windows if he was just going to operate alone from one perch?


And I wonder how this is affecting Mandalay Bay's business at present?

[devo_stevo]

I stayed at Mandalay Bay in february. I think we were on the 30th floor, so just a little lower than this guy was. I remember looking over at that concert venue from there. It's a long shot to take for sure, but it is wide open. There is nowhere to hide from something like this. It's horrifying to think about. I'm glad it wasn't much worse. It sounds like it certainly could have been.

[Iceaxe]

I think the time lines will change as the ATF puts this all together, you have to remember most of these time stamps are coming from the local media and they are notorious for getting details wrong in the rush to be first.

I'll make a wager it's only one shooter if anyone wants to put some cash down. I'm sure the hotel surveillance tapes have been gone over thoroughly by now and a second shooter would have hit the news with a be on the lookout for this guy. Remember that's how the Boston marathon bombing played out.

[Brian in SLC]

I read he brought gobs of ammo. I doubt he ran out.

The thing I wanna know is....was there a second shooter? If you look at the 32nd floor, you'll notice not one, but two windows broken out. Two shooters could have easily been firing at once just as BruteForce was implying earlier. Otherwise, why break out two windows if he was just going to operate alone from one perch?

Was a suite...especially notable after media footage of the room configuration.

In all the videos....there's no version of overlapping gunshots.

The blinking light video from the 4th-ish floor is purportedly lights from the adjacent casino property.

I haven't seen any video from the shooter's room that showed muzzle flash. I think he had some of the multiple guns set up to fire out of each window.

No evidence to suggest another shooter, IMHO. But, I'm sure the conspiracy folks will find some traction with some people...contrails, 9/11 inside jobbers, etc.

I just got a flu shot. Not only is the gov't controlling my thoughts, but, I'm coming down with autism! Yay!

[rockgremlin]

As of yesterday, three of the shooting victims hadn't been identified yet. Is that because they had no ID, and nobody was looking for them?

[twotimer]

I think the time lines will change as the ATF puts this all together, you have to remember most of these time stamps are coming from the local media and they are notorious for getting details wrong in the rush to be first.

I'm betting on this, too. If he only shot for 10 minutes, then he spent an hour up there...doing what? If he ran out of ammo, that's one thing. But if he had many more bullets?

The cop that was first to approach James Holmes ( the Aurora theater shooter) said that he was sitting on a curb, looking to be in a state of shock. He surrendered without a fight and told them of the bombs planted at his place.

When I heard this, I figured he had freaked on the surrealness of what he'd just done. State of shock, indeed.

If this knucklehead still had ammo up there, then perhaps he freaked out, too. Just sat there or walked around in circles until the cops came for him.

[twotimer]

As of yesterday, three of the shooting victims hadn't been identified yet. Is that because they had no ID, and nobody was looking for them?People that are estranged from their families, most likely.

[Scott P]

As of yesterday, three of the shooting victims hadn't been identified yet. Is that because they had no ID, and nobody was looking for them?

If they were single, it could take a while before they are reported missing. I don't think most single people tell their families when they are going to a concert or most other activities that are expected to be safe.

They will probably be identified sometime in the near future.

[rockgremlin]

how to make an ar fully auto(video)

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/22285260_130927400813527_4981073087287001088_n.mp4
https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/22285260_130927400813527_4981073087287001088_n.mp4

This guy claims his gun can discharge rounds at 70,000 rounds a minute.

That over 1,100 rounds a second.

I think he's full of shit.

[oldno7]

This guy claims his gun can discharge rounds at 70,000 rounds a minute.

That over 1,100 rounds a second.

I think he's full of shit.

But only if you remove the fully automatic safety bolt and precisely replace the pumajigger(sp)

and then, fully, not partially slide the rear selector all the way back to full auto.

It's not as easy as you've heard on the webs....

[twotimer]

This guy claims his gun can discharge rounds at 70,000 rounds a minute.

That over 1,100 rounds a second.

I think he's full of shit.Yeah man...they're trying to invent a constant stream of bullets to hose targets down.

The human race is friggin' doomed. It's amazing we don't have a lot more weirdos goin' off the rails.

[Iceaxe]

FWIW - 12 of the 23 rifles recovered in the shooters hotel room were equipped with bump stocks.

[Sombeech]

There was only 1 shooter, you can tell from the audio and the delay in shooting.

He had also tried to shoot the big containers of aviation fuel, this could be why the second window was broken out. Fortunately his shots didn't pierce the tanks.

1 week earlier he had booked a room overlooking the "Life is Beautiful" concert, and nobody knows why he didn't start the massacre at that time. Maybe he just hates Country music that much more.

And also... it looks like he purchased 30 guns last year, due to some possible "event". I'm going to go with he was a severe Anti Trump dude and just couldn't deal with Hillary losing. That would make the Left shit themselves and cover it up like no tomorrow.

[rockgremlin]

He had also tried to shoot the big containers of aviation fuel, this could be why the second window was broken out. Fortunately his shots didn't pierce the tanks.


Jet fuel can melt steel beams AND repel assault rifle bullets.

[Iceaxe]

Life is beautiful concert = liberals
Country concert = conservatives

While a generality the above holds pretty true.

Shooting the tanks of aviation fuel will not start a fire or cause an explosion, that is more TV bullshit.

You would probably need armor percing bullets or a very large caliber (50 cal.) To punch a hole in the fuel tanks and than you would probably have to shoot the spilling fuel with a tracer round to get ignition. I believe tracers are illegal for civilian use as they cause forest fires and serve no practical civilian use.

[Iceaxe]

FWIW - The NRA has just come out opposing bump stocks (and related devices), which means they will probably be banned in the near future. Bump stocks are nothing but an interesting engineering work around of the full auto ban. If this ban follows true to past form existing bump stocks will be grandfathered in.

[rockgremlin]

I believe tracers are illegal for civilian use as they cause forest fires and serve no practical civilian use.


Well, the same argument could be applied to fully auto assault rifles.

[Sombeech]

I claim 37 internet points if my theory is true, the shooter is a big anti Trump dude.

[Brian in SLC]

Life is beautiful concert = liberals
Country concert = conservatives

While a generality the above holds pretty true.

Shooting the tanks of aviation fuel will not start a fire or cause an explosion, that is more TV bullshit.

You would probably need armor percing bullets or a very large caliber (50 cal.) To punch a hole in the fuel tanks and than you would probably have to shoot the spilling fuel with a tracer round to get ignition. I believe tracers are illegal for civilian use as they cause forest fires and serve no practical civilian use.

Tracer rounds are available nearly everywhere ammo is sold...

Av fuel is basically kerosene. It might burn if lit and if it's vapors reach a certain percentage of the air, it could be explosive. Aviation gas leaks from planes have burst into flames. Plenty of footage of it. If you're on a plane leaking fuel, there's a reason fire trucks line the runway.

[Brian in SLC]

I claim 37 internet points if my theory is true, the shooter is a big anti Trump dude.

You'd deserve more than that!

There was a debunked fake news story that he was.

Usually, folks that are unhappy politically leave a pretty big social media footprint. He has none that's been discovered up to now.

Kind of an interesting thing to consider...is...what would your posting history say about you? We know some folks here hate the environment, for instance (ha ha!).

My bet is he was looking for a target rich situation. But, why? Retired, white, rich...had it made. Other than a late in life sudden onset of schizophrenia (not common in his age demographic I'd think)? Dementia? Maybe a life long mild schizophrenia which got worse with dementia related aging?

Interesting, in light of...

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/876479

[rockgremlin]

We know some folks here hate the environment, for instance (ha ha!).


This guy -

87849

[BruteForce]

http://www.bogley.com/forum/images/metro/blue/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Iceaxe http://www.bogley.com/forum/images/metro/blue/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?p=589490#post589490)
I believe tracers are illegal for civilian use as they cause forest fires and serve no practical civilian use.






Well, the same argument could be applied to fully auto assault rifles.

Tracers are easily accessible. I bought a surplus ammo can (750 rounds) of red-tip M880 rounds from Cheaperthandirt.com. Yes, they will start a fire if used incorrectly, but in the sand dunes or wide open desert at night, they are SPECTACULAR! :)

[Iceaxe]

The big problem with this guy so far is they can't find a slot to pigeon hole him in. This must be driving the FBI absolutely nuts that he doesn't fit any of their profiles.

[twotimer]

He was just a weirdo. Had himself a mail order girlfriend. Just a rich, weird loser without any joy in his life.

So NBC (for whatever good that is) just reported that the cops are examining six "media" devices that he owned. All this talk about him being a mystery man may be just that. Just because he wasn't on Facebook doesn't mean he wasn't searching all kinds of stuff.

They're piecing together everything there is to know about the guy. They've got his house and everything it says about him. The girlfriend will describe his personality and what he griped about. You know they're running her thru the grill.

We'll get a motive...the cops just want to get it right. I say eccentric weirdo with anger issues.

[Sombeech]

A filthy rich gambler, lived the exciting unpredictable life of winning or losing in an instant, maybe that stuff just gets old after a while.

I'm having a good laugh at all of the conspiracy theories though.

[Iceaxe]

ISIS is still claiming credit for the Vegas shooting. I'm starting to think their might be something to their claim as ISIS rarely claims credit for something they didn't do or inspire.

http://americanmilitarynews.com/2017/10/isis-is-still-claiming-the-las-vegas-shooting-and-made-a-more-specific-claim-about-the-gunman/amp/?utm_source=asmdss&utm_campaign=alt&utm_medium=facebook

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171006/0c8cd37254ccf71200e725b8a66aede7.png

http://tribunist.com/news/phoenix-resident-turns-his-guns-over-to-police-following-vegas-shooting-encourages-others-to-do-the-same/?utm_source=ITA

[middlefork]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171006/0c8cd37254ccf71200e725b8a66aede7.png

http://tribunist.com/news/phoenix-resident-turns-his-guns-over-to-police-following-vegas-shooting-encourages-others-to-do-the-same/?utm_source=ITA

That's just silly. The police already have plenty of guns. Why give them more.

[Sombeech]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171006/0c8cd37254ccf71200e725b8a66aede7.png

http://tribunist.com/news/phoenix-resident-turns-his-guns-over-to-police-following-vegas-shooting-encourages-others-to-do-the-same/?utm_source=ITA


That's it, I've been inspired to do the same. I was going to shoot up the IKEA parking lot tomorrow but this sumbitch has inspired me to turn my guns over instead. I could use another coffee table, come to think about it.


The officer in this picture is thinking "Why is this jackass thinking this will do anything, oh well I'll be in the news".

[oldno7]

,.,.

[hank moon]

87851

[Iceaxe]

FWIW - The second amendment is not about saving lives, it's about guaranteeing freedom.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171006/4d8d4f44667cacc1d1258ae9fd45b333.jpg

[Iceaxe]

Cops still totally baffled...

Frustrated police appeal for public's help in Vegas case
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=46063569&nid=157

[Scott Card]

This killer is the very definition of psychopath - uncaring, little to no emotion, cold, loner.... I doubt they will find much on this guy. This type of person is perhaps the scariest type out there.

[Iceaxe]

Good read on the actual carnage the night of the shooting....

http://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2017/10/07/in-the-minutes-and-hours-after-the-las-vegas-shooting-heres-what-an-emergency-room-nurse-from-utah-saw/

[Iceaxe]

I'll just leave this here....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171008/8f9b181fbe57721d573de340983b016b.jpg

[oldno7]

Doesn't fit the narrative, thats why.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/500th-person-shot-to-death-in-chicago-this-year/

[Scott P]

How about these ones?

https://www.cotting.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Gun-violence-chart.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-W9LkhCs6ib4/Vhi6mB06y9I/AAAAAAAAIn0/4KoXL5iNehE/s1600/imrs.php.jpg


https://everytownresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/6-GV-by-Numbers.png

[Scott P]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171008/8f9b181fbe57721d573de340983b016b.jpg

This is false (Fake News). There are several cities that have stricter gun laws than Chicago. New York and San Franciso are two of them.

[Scott P]

If the claim is that having guns is your right, that may be a valid argument, but the claim that gun ownership makes you safer, really isn't valid.

Some like to point out the low crime rates and high gun ownership in Switzerland, especially since for many, gun ownership is mandatory.

Here is what it not mentioned though.

In Switzerland, many people are required to own guns and are members of the national militia. This is true. The ammunition of such guns, however, is kept in their military armory. You are not allowed to keep it at home. When the ammunition is needed to defend their country, it is available.

The Switzerland argument people are sharing on FB isn't valid.

[twotimer]

I wonder if there was a big controversy after some caveman invented the slingshot.

[hank moon]

....

[rockgremlin]

https://byrslf.co/thoughts-on-the-vegas-shooting-14af397cee2c


“We’re seeing a rise of loneliness and isolation. No one kills themselves when they’re hungry; we kill ourselves when we’re lonely. And we act out, as well.


In the 1960’s, there was one school shooting.
In the 1980’s, there were 27.
In the 1990’s, there were 58.
In the past decade, there have been over 120.


It has nothing to do with guns, it has to do with people feeling lonely.


How do we combat the loneliness that kids are feeling? All of them attacked people in their own community, and all of them attack people they blamed for their own loneliness.”


This loneliness compounds as men grow older.

^^^Wow. This is a great article. More people should be aware of this.

[hank moon]

....

[Iceaxe]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171008/8f9b181fbe57721d573de340983b016b.jpg

This is false (Fake News). There are several cities that have stricter gun laws than Chicago. New York and San Franciso are two of them.Not fake news, it depends on how you want to weight and grade each specific law and regulation. It depends who's ranking you are looking at as to exactly where they land.

But to keep this simple, Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, they also have one of the highest homicide rates in the country, those are facts.

[Iceaxe]

And today in #FakeNews.....

CBS makes up bogus term to describe ammo used in Vegas shooting.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/21978/fake-news-cbs-makes-bogus-term-describe-ammo-used-ryan-saavedra

[Sombeech]

Just a note on all of the "Gun Murder Rates" charts, they are counting suicides as gun murder. Just FYI

[oldno7]

“If you are for gun control, then you are not against guns, because the guns will be needed to disarm people. So it’s not that you are anti-gun. You’ll need the police’s guns to take away other people’s guns. So you’re very pro-gun; you just believe that only the Government (which is, of course, so reliable, honest, moral and virtuous…) should be allowed to have guns. There is no such thing as gun control. There is only centralizing gun ownership in the hands of a small political elite and their minions.”

[Scott P]

Not fake news, it depends on how you want to weight and grade each specific law and regulation. It depends who's ranking you are looking at as to exactly where they land.

Chicago doesn't have the strictest gun laws no matter what weight and grade is each law is given or who's ranking it is. No recent criteria currently ranks Chicago as #1.

Chicago relaxed its gun laws in 2010 and 2013. Before 2010, some rankings listed Chicago at the top of the list, but not in more recent years. Other than internet memes shared on Facebook and in forums, no one still rates Chicago as #1.


There is only centralizing gun ownership in the hands of a small political elite and their minions.

As mentioned, Switzerland requires firearms ownership among a large part of the population. Each population area has its own armory controlled by the militia where ammunition is stored. Their crime rates are low and that is the epitome of a well regulated militia.

I am not against gun (or ammunition) ownership for law abiding mentally stable citizens here in the US, but the claim that it makes us safer really isn't valid.

[Iceaxe]

^^^insert eyeroll here^^^

I didn't say the strictest, I said one of the strictest.

I'm sorry it's impossible to define all the minor details and nuances to suit your needs in a simple meme....

[Iceaxe]

Here's a new one for Scott to ponder.....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171009/89cd4205012f26791520f6562fb60fb7.jpg

[Scott P]

I didn't say the strictest, I said one of the strictest.

The meme itself is fake news since it says strictest, not one of the strictest. It hasn't been valid in the past few years, no matter who's criteria is used.

The thing about Chicago is that a lot of gun control laws won't work, even if it still had the strictest laws. Chicago sits in the corner of Illinois and right near the border of Wisconsin and Indiana, both of which have lax gun laws compared to Chicago. Anyone has to drive only a few miles to get a gun in one one of the neighboring states. It's the same as people in Salt Lake buying their fireworks from Evanston, doing their gambling in Wendover, and buying their lottery tickets in Idaho, except Chicago is even closer to the state borders.


Here's a new one for Scott to ponder.....

What does that have to do with me? I haven't said anything about illegal immigration.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't really spoken out for or against gun control either, but have only said that gun ownership doesn't make us safer.

Some gun advocates are more honest in this than others. One honest gun advocate told me that gun ownership makes us a freer society, not a safer one. I can see how that could be a valid argument, but the claims that it makes us safer really aren't valid.

Also, I said before I am not against law abiding, mentally stable citizens owning firearms. Where to draw the line is a harder question to answer.

[tallsteve]

Several months ago, after the last mass murder shooting, I looked up a bunch of statistics on the CDC's website in relation to gun deaths. I don't recall the exact numbers and I don't have the time to go through the reports again (every death statistic is there, if you have the time it's interesting to go through all their reports) but, I took out suicide by gun deaths and looked at only the murder by gun numbers for the most recent year reported. Then, just because I was curious, I looked up alcohol related vehicle deaths. Guess what? They are nearly identical! So, should we ban alcohol? Or, cars? Or, are both more of a societal problem?

[Iceaxe]

Just a note on all of the "Gun Murder Rates" charts, they are counting suicides as gun murder. Just FYIYup... one of the favorite tactics of the anti gun lobby is to lump suicides and homicides together to exaggerate the numbers.

FWIW - numerous studies have proven access to guns has no effect on the number of suicides, just the method of suicide.

[oldno7]

If the claim is that having guns is your right, that may be a valid argument,
.


CLAIM???
MAY BE??

You are certainly out of touch with reality and the BOR.

These are not claims, they are inalienable/Natural RIGHTS.

They(Natural Rights) are not given to us through the Constitution, only reaffirmed by it.

I don't see people in droves, trying to leave this Country, only the opposite.

Comparing the US to other Countries is a fools errand, we are unlike any other, as proven by the prior sentence.

If we take 5 of the largest cities(all run by democrats, with strict gun control laws) out of the murder equation, where would that make us statistically, compared to other countries?

[Scott P]

CLAIM???
MAY BE??

You are certainly out of touch with reality and the BOR.

No, I am not.

I used the word claim when it comes to all individual rights of gun ownership is because both sides differ on the definition of "well regulated militia" and so has the Supreme Court throughout the years.

In fact part of the reason Chicago no longer has the strictest gun laws in the country is that some of their laws were deemed unconstitutional. The definition and interpetation of "well regulated militia" however, has changed periodically in the Supreme Court throughout different times in history.

As you and I have discussed earlier, I'm pretty neutral when it comes to gun control, but I can say that historically and currently that the Second Amendment's well regulated militia phrase has been interpreted differently among different people. If it hadn't, there would be no debate and no need for court decisions on the matter.


I don't see people in droves, trying to leave this Country, only the opposite.

People flock here because we are a great nation with many opportunities and freedoms.


If we take 5 of the largest cities(all run by democrats, with strict gun control laws) out of the murder equation, where would that make us statistically, compared to other countries?

It would still be higher here than in many other nations.

Almost all big cities in the US have Democratic mayors. Some are safer than others.

[Iceaxe]

The actual homicide facts complied by the FBI are very interesting to look at. A couple interesting items that jumped out at me:

Almost twice as many people are killed each year by hammers and clubs then by all rifles combined, including the so called "assault" rifle.

Why doesn't the anti gun lobby go after handguns, which account for the vast majority of firearm homicides? Because in 1832 the US Supreme Court ruled banning handguns was unconstitutional. This was reaffirmed in the 2008 case of District of Columbia v. Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment affirmed the rights of individuals to own firearms. The ruling also overturned a 32-year old ban on the sale or possession of handguns in the District of Columbia.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_w eapon_2011-2015.xls

[oldno7]

No, I am not.

I used the word claim when it comes to all individual rights of gun ownership is because both sides differ on the definition of "well regulated militia" and so has the Supreme Court throughout the years.
.

Oh you mean like this Supreme court ruling?

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Supreme_Court_cases,_volume_ 554) U.S. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Reports) 570 (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/554/570/) (2008), is a landmark (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landmark_court_decisions_in_the_United_Sta tes) case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_case) in which the Supreme Court of the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States) held, in a 5–4 decision, that the Second Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution ) protects an individual's right (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_keep_and_bear_arms) to possess a firearm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm) unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, and that Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban and requirement that lawfully-owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" violated this guarantee.

[Iceaxe]

Oh you mean like this Supreme court ruling?

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Supreme_Court_cases,_volume_ 554) U.S. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Reports) 570 (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/554/570/) (2008), is a landmark (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landmark_court_decisions_in_the_United_Sta tes) case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_case) in which the Supreme Court of the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States) held, in a 5–4 decision, that the Second Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution ) protects an individual's right (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_keep_and_bear_arms) to possess a firearm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm) unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, and that Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban and requirement that lawfully-owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" violated this guarantee.

^^^THIS^^^

The 2nd Amendment in regards to militia is crystal clear after DC vs Heller.

[Scott P]

Oh you mean like this Supreme court ruling?

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Supreme_Court_cases,_volume_ 554) U.S. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Reports) 570 (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/554/570/) (2008), is a landmark (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landmark_court_decisions_in_the_United_Sta tes) case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_case) in which the Supreme Court of the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States) held, in a 5–4 decision, that the Second Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution ) protects an individual's right (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_keep_and_bear_arms) to possess a firearm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm) unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, and that Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban and requirement that lawfully-owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" violated this guarantee.

Yes, that is one of them and a good example. If there was never any question, all such court decisions would always be unanimous.

Also see McDonald vs Chicago which is related to DC vs Heller and what I was referring to about some of Chicago's gun laws being deemed unconstitutional in 2010.

I'm pretty sure that we are on the same page on this.

That wasn't my argument though. My argument was really about whether or not more guns make us safer and where to draw the line.

I'm sure there will be some rulings on bump stocks that we'll all be watching in the upcoming months or years.

Also, although I am pretty neutral on gun issues, let me interject some personal thoughts.

Would I be nervous if you or Shane had a basement full of semi auto firearms? No, I am not concerned, even in the least.

Am I nervous that my sister's mentally ill husband (separated) and who has threatened to gun down the family many times still has access to all kinds of firearms? I admit that I am.

[hank moon]

....

[oldno7]

Yes, that is one of them and a good example. If there was never any question, all such decisions would always be unanimous.

That may be the sole reason "our" side won--Supreme court picks.

Now on to a couple more...

[oldno7]

What's clear is that law is fluid:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_overruled_United_States_Supreme_Court_deci sions

,,,

[oldno7]

Natural rights are not fluid!

only leftist looking for progress are fluid!

[Iceaxe]

The timeline of the shooter is undergoing some major revisions. It now appears the hotel security guard was shot 6 minutes before the gunman opened fire on the crowd. The security guard shooting also appears to be what messed up the shooters escape plans.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/09/mandalay-bay-security-guard-was-shot-six-minutes-before-las-vegas-gunman-began-shooting-police-say.html

[Iceaxe]

The NRA is taking a massive beating from it's membership for suggesting they might be open to outlawing bump stocks.

The big problem is the minute the NRA suggested they were open to the subject the left started immediately trying to piggyback additional anti gun laws into the legislation being discussed. The left has basically cut their own throats on this deal as the NRA will probably be force to resume their hardline stance of no more gun laws.

[Iceaxe]

The fact remains that none of the gun control measures pushed by anti-gun politicians would have stopped the recent high-profile shootings. There is no point in pushing through legislation that curtails Americans’ constitutional rights if it has no meaningful impact and doesn’t actually solve a problem.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171014/7cc2ae98acb71158f0a4baf889370ed7.jpg

[Brian in SLC]

The fact remains that none of the gun control measures pushed by anti-gun politicians would have stopped the recent high-profile shootings. There is no point in pushing through legislation that curtails Americans’ constitutional rights if it has no meaningful impact and doesn’t actually solve a problem.

Does make me wonder...what if?

What if the Federal Assault Weapons Ban hadn't expired?

[Iceaxe]

Does make me wonder...what if?

What if the Federal Assault Weapons Ban hadn't expired?Perhaps a slighy different weapons combination but same results. If nothing else this incident with bump stocks should show you that weapons designers are geniuses at engineering their way around the silly rules that were in the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. By the sunset of the Assault Weapons Ban many outlawed items had a simple work around.

[Brian in SLC]

Perhaps a slighy different weapons combination but same results. If nothing else this incident with bump stocks should show you that weapons designers are geniuses at engineering their way around the silly rules that were in the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. By the sunset of the Assault Weapons Ban many outlawed items had a simple work around.

Hmm. Some items. But, my memory was that semi auto black rifle and AK rigs were severely curtailed, and, if you owned some of that stuff...their value was pretty high. High cap mags were $$$pendy.

I think I recall hi cap glock and HK mags hitting 90 bucks or more (if you could find them). Ditto AR and AK mags.

I remember thinking I was glad to have a couple of AR's. Watched the prices sky rocket. Same with my Mini-14.

Prices are now rock bottom.

Supply and demand I suppose.

87932

87933

I know, from attending guns shows pre, during, and post ban...the hardware and prices have changed significantly. Cheap black rifles are boring to me (bunches of junk)...maybe I'll stick to the collector shows...

[Iceaxe]

Hmm. Some items. But, my memory was that semi auto black rifle and AK rigs were severely curtailed, and, if you owned some of that stuff...their value was pretty high. High cap mags were $$$pendy.

I think I recall hi cap glock and HK mags hitting 90 bucks or more (if you could find them). Ditto AR and AK mags.

I remember thinking I was glad to have a couple of AR's. Watched the prices sky rocket. Same with my Mini-14.

Prices are now rock bottom.

Supply and demand I suppose.

87932

87933

I know, from attending guns shows pre, during, and post ban...the hardware and prices have changed significantly. Cheap black rifles are boring to me (bunches of junk)...maybe I'll stick to the collector shows...After Sandy Hooks you could sell any gun at just about any price, it wasn't just black rifles that had ridiculous price tags. Pistols were going crazy. I put a couple 9mm on gunbroker and they sold for 6 times what they were worth. Now it's just the opposite, you can't hardly give guns away as anyone who was interested over stocked and the market over produced. People are still buying guns, but they are buying them a fire sale prices.

And I don't read much into your charts as firearm homicides have been in serious decline since the early 70's and they continue to decline.

[Brian in SLC]

And I don't read much into your charts as firearm homicides have been in serious decline since the early 70's and they continue to decline.

I think there's been a bump in the last year or two. Data is hard to come by, though.

87934

Not saying the ban in 1994 caused the big decline...but...what did?

Raw and accurate data hard to come by. By design? Seems. We apparently just really don't want to know...

Cause and effect, causation v correlation...ect.

I'd just like to see some raw data. I can do the math.

There's these high profile bumps in the data, then, back to fairly sleepy. This Vegas thing was a big bump. That's a serious amount of casualties attributed to a single shooter. Not possible without high cap mags and semi auto rifles. Both of which are saturated in the market place.

Would have been interesting to save some numbers and prices off the eBay of the gun sales in the US...gunbroker.

Currently there are over 4500 semi auto AR-15 rifles for sale and the prices are fairly low. Would have been interesting to compare that to, say, a search in 2002 or so.

Genie is out of the bottle....that's for darn sure.

So...if the gummint had to budget for a buyback...say, 1000 a pop. 110,000,000 rifles. 111 billion. US military budget from 2017 is 824.6 billion? Or thereabouts. 4 trillion dollar budge for 2018? What's that? 3% of our budget? Hmm. Interesting.

Wonder what percentage of Australia's budget their buy back was?

[Brian in SLC]

Here's a couple of charts that might be attributable to the sunset of the AWB:

87935

87936

[Iceaxe]

'Assault Rifles' are used in less than 1% of all homicides... You are chasing the liberal dog whistle with this one.

Now if you want to go after some low hanging fruit how about 64% of all homicides are committed be handguns. That's the guns the left should be working to get banned. Except for that silly 2nd amendment that keeps getting in the way and the simple fact that the Supreme Court has twice ruled that handguns are legal and can't be banned.

[Iceaxe]

The NRA is taking a massive beating from it's membership for suggesting they might be open to outlawing bump stocks.

The big problem is the minute the NRA suggested they were open to the subject the left started immediately trying to piggyback additional anti gun laws into the legislation being discussed. The left has basically cut their own throats on this deal as the NRA will probably be force to resume their hardline stance of no more gun laws.

I called in... The NRA has come out against the currently proposed overreaching legislation attempting to ban bump stocks.

http://thehill.com/regulation/355183-nra-comes-out-against-legislation-banning-bump-stocks

[oldno7]

Security guard mia.

Probably just out in the desert.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/16/las-vegas-guard-jesus-campos-vanished-after-visiting-urgent-care-clinic-union-leader-says.html

[oldno7]

....

[rockgremlin]

Security guard mia.

Probably just out in the desert.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/16/las-vegas-guard-jesus-campos-vanished-after-visiting-urgent-care-clinic-union-leader-says.html


This is really weird..

[oldno7]

It appears ellen found Jesus

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/18/las-vegas-hotel-security-guard-to-appear-on-ellen-degeneres-show.html

[accadacca]

So there WAS a second shooter!?!?!?

[accadacca]

Got me, it’s a fake. My wife read me the news. Lol

https://walkwithtimeamerica.com/news/breaking-second-shooter-vegas-massacre-just-arrested-look/

[Iceaxe]

Sheriff: Las Vegas shooting gunman fired over 1,100 rounds

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=46203962&nid=157

[Sombeech]

Sheriff: Las Vegas shooting gunman fired over 1,100 rounds

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=46203962&nid=157

And only 50 something killed? That's actually a damned good ratio.