Shooting in Alexandria

[devo_stevo]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/steve-scalise-shot-in-virginia-aides-also-hit/ar-BBCFakV?li=BBnb7Kz

Bad deal. Here's to hoping for a speedy recovery for those who were shot this morning. What the heck is going on here?

[BruteForce]

Progressives/Liberals have literally been losing their minds since the November election. Bernie Sanders lunatic involved and now deceased.. may he rot in the deepest pits of hell.

[oldno7]

...

[Scott P]

On the other mass shootings threads, it was said that mass shootings are because of the way we treat the mentally ill (or because of Obama's gun control). It was said by conservatives that the shootings shouldn't be made into a political issue. It was said that the shooter should be blamed, not the gun or other issues. Here are the threads:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?74901-What-will-reduce-Gun-Violence-in-the-U-S

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?74873-Oregon-Shooting-10-Dead-Umpqua-Community-College

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?66853-Assault-Weapons

Now the exact same Bogley members are making it a political issue and blaming a political party instead of the shooter. :ne_nau:

[rockgremlin]

On the other mass shootings thread, it was said that mass shootings are because of the way we treat the mentally ill (or because of Obama's gun control). It was said by conservatives that the shootings shouldn't be made into a political issue.

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?74901-What-will-reduce-Gun-Violence-in-the-U-S

Now the exact same Bogley members are making it a political issue. :ne_nau:


LOL...Scott - I think you missed your calling. You should've been an auditor. Or maybe a litigator. Anything that requires holding people accountable.

[Iceaxe]

The politicians need to shoulder their fair share of the blame for this. You can't keep stirring the pot with this outrages hateful rhetoric and then be surprised when the lunatic fringe does something like this. I'm actually surprised something like this has not happened sooner.

[Iceaxe]

On the other mass shootings threads, it was said that mass shootings are because of the way we treat the mentally ill

Way to twist the facts.... I believe just about everyone, including myself (see post below), stated we need to do more to get the mentally ill the help they need, and we need to fix HIPAA so we know who the mentally ill are so we can keep them away from firearms.

FWIW - this guy should have never been allowed to own guns. He had been arrested twice in the past for domestic violence, including domestic violence with a firearm. The court system dropped the ball on this and never prosecuted him for any of the charges. If the domestic violence or use of a firearm in a crime charge had of been on his record he would not have passed a Federal background check, or the Illinois gun permit requirements.



The first thing that needs to happen is the laws surrounding HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) need to be amended. The HIPAA Privacy Rule prevents states and doctors from reporting certain information to local law enforcement and the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). The NICS helps to ensure that guns are not sold to those prohibited by law from having them, including felons, those convicted of domestic violence, and individuals involuntarily committed to a mental institution. However, the background check system is only as effective as the information that is available to it.

If you follow these mass shooting the guns are usually obtained illegally and are used by those forbidden from possessing them. New laws are useless until you can enforce the ones already on the books.

If you want to curtail gun violence lets start with the easy things first....

We have a broken mental health system that needs to be fixed.

We need a serious and meaningful solution that addresses crime in cities like Chicago.



:soapbox:

[Scott P]

FWIW - this guy should have never been allowed to own guns. He had been arrested twice in the past for domestic violence, including domestic violence with a firearm. The court system dropped the ball on this and never prosecuted him for any of the charges. If the domestic violence or use of a firearm in a crime charge had of been on his record he would not have passed a Federal background check, or the Illinois gun permit requirements.

I agree with this.

I was not referring to your posts specifically. Read through the threads and you can see exactly what I am saying and pointing out. I could cut and paste them, but anyone who wants to can read through them without me doing so.


The politicians need to shoulder their fair share of the blame for this. You can't keep stirring the pot with this outrages hateful rhetoric and then be surprised when the lunatic fringe does something like this. I'm actually surprised something like this has not happened sooner.

OK, but no one can say that it is only one side stirring the pot with outrage and hateful rhetoric. Whether people like to believe it or not, there is plenty of hate being thrown out from both sides. The Republicans ignore the hatred being dished out Republicans while the Democrats do the same.

[devo_stevo]

Yeah. I just checked out that guy's facebook page. It's currently filling right up with some rather ugly things being said. From both sides of the political isle. Wow. That's all I can say.

[Scott P]

Yeah. I just checked out that guy's facebook page. It's currently filling right up with some rather ugly things being said. From both sides of the political isle. Wow. That's all I can say.

In my opinion, besides the fact that many people are dicks, is the other two main reasons this country is so divided is as follows:

1. Social media. Sites like Facebook were originally intended to make it easier for friends to connect, but now a whole lot of people use social media sites to spread hatred.

2. More and more we only have a choice of voting for a right wing extremist or a left wing extremist. There are very few moderate candidates and whichever wins only want to push his or her agenda and stick it to the other party. It doesn't seem to matter than politicians are supposed to work for all Americans, not just the ones that want to push their own party's agenda.

[Iceaxe]

More and more we only have a choice of voting for a right wing extremist or a left wing extremist. There are very few moderate candidates

Trump is about as moderate and middle of the road as they come. For crying out load, the guy was a registered Democrat until a couple years ago. How much more middle of the road do you want? The funny part was Trump was actually left of Hillary on several issues.

[Scott P]

Trump is about as moderate and middle of the road as they come.

I agree with you and have already said as much on another thread.

My quote is as follows:

More and more we only have a choice of voting for a right wing extremist or a left wing extremist.

More and more doesn't mean 100%. Trump is an outlier. Believe it or not, all my posts are specific to Trump.

As far as Trump goes, he isn't quite a moderate, but is perhaps the most moderate presidential candidate since Bush 1. Besides Trump and a few others though, we usually only have a choice of voting for one extremist or the other.

Trump could actually be a good president if he'd quick being a dick to everyone who disagrees with him. He is his own worst enemy. Instead of focusing on posting his rants about Hillary (yes he is still doing this), "fake media", Democrats, etc., he should be out there doing things that really do make America better. For example, what happened to the promised of negotiating with pharmaceutical companies?

And on the flip side Democrats should be willing to work with Trump on things that are beneficial to Americans. Obviously Democrats are the problem too.

Of course should be and will be are two different things and I'm pessimistic that that will happen.

[twotimer]

I'm actually surprised something like this has not happened sooner.Yeah, me too. The liberals might want to cool their jets with the severed heads and Caesar stabbings. And these are the same people who insist that Trump shouldn't provoke ISIS.

I don't think this guy was mental...he was just a straight up asshole.

[Scott P]

The liberals might want to cool their jets with the severed heads and Caesar stabbings.

The conservatives didn't cool it when Obama was in office, so I don't know why it would be different (even though it should be)? See comment above:

The Republicans ignore the hatred being dished out Republicans while the Democrats do the same.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/530becede4b093256168fba5/t/58c975a8f7e0aba3659d0212/1489597873149/?format=750w

http://addictinginfo.addictinginfoent.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/terry-jones1.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy8RIiTyhMI

Of course the severed head video was deplorable as well.

[Iceaxe]

Both sides are guilty and have spread their share of hate and rhetoric, but I believe most sane and reasonable people will agree that liberals have recently elevated it to a whole new level.

[Scott P]

Both sides have spread their share of hate and rhetoric, but I believe most sane and reasonable people will agree that liberals have recently elevated it to a whole new level.

The conservatives were no better when Obama was in office.

Those who really want to stop the hate need to stop blaming and encouraging it (and I'm not speaking to anyone specifically in the forum).

All acts of violence need to be denounced, not just the ones in the opposite party that one belongs to.

If you quantified it, I'm not convinced that the liberals are the ones taking it to a whole new level.

Examples of conservative violence are the shootings at Planned Parenthood, the shooting of the Arizona Senator, the attack on the Las Vegas police officers, the Portland Train attack, etc.

Here is a partial list of Right-Wing attacks in the last 10 years:

The 2017 Portland train attack (2 killed),
The 2017 stabbing of Timothy Caughman in New York City (1 killed),
The 2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting (3 killed),
The 2015 Charleston church shooting (9 killed),
The 2014 ambush attack on Las Vegas police officers (5 killed),
The 2014 Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooting in Kansas (3 killed),
The 2014 Pennsylvania State Police barracks attack in Blooming Grove, Pennsylvania (1 killed),
A 2012 tri-state killing spree by white supremacists, David Pedersen and Holly Grigsby (4 killed),
A 2012 ambush of St. John the Baptist Parish, Louisiana police (2 killed),
The 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting (6 killed),
The 2011 FEAR group attacks (3 killed),
A murder in 2010 in Carlisle, Pennsylvania (1 killed),
A 2010 suicide attack by airplane in Austin, Texas (1 killed),
The 2009 shooting of Pittsburgh police officers (3 killed),
The 2009 United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting (1 killed),
The 2009 assassination of George Tiller (1 killed),
The 2009 murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores in Pima County, Arizona (2 killed),
The 2009 murders in Brockton, Massachusetts (2 killed),
The 2008 Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting (2 killed),

In fact, according to the Government Accountability Office, 73% of politically motivated extremist attacks since 9-11 were from right wing extremists.

Instead of only blaming the other party, look into denouncing the violence no matter who is committing it.

[Iceaxe]

You obviously missed the part where I qualified my statement upfront by stating sane and reasonable....

Or perhaps you're not sane or reasonable?

But either way you get my drift..

[hank moon]

Instead of only blaming the other party, look into denouncing the violence no matter who is committing it.

There are very few moderate candidates and whichever wins only want to push his or her agenda and stick it to the other party



Scott, it's a good thought. Keep the "Yea-team" tribalism in the sports arena and out of politics. Until we change our collective mind about the kind of society we'd like to have, and take action to make it happen...we'll keep reaping what we sow. In the USA we have freedom, and that includes the freedom to self-destruct.

[hank moon]

Yeah, me too. The liberals might want to cool their jets with the severed heads and Caesar stabbings. And these are the same people who insist that Trump shouldn't provoke ISIS.

I don't think this guy was mental...he was just a straight up asshole.

That's some serious broad-brush tribal BS there, Byron. One unhinged comedian does not equal "the liberals" (whoever "they" are). Not to mention OF COURSE the guy was mental. Just plain assholes don't plan and attempt to execute mass murder.

[oldno7]

...

[Matthew_R]

Scott, not a great list when you start it off with an anti-Trimp, anti-Hillary, Bernie supporter killing 2 people.
:facepalm1:

[Scott P]

You obviously missed the part where I qualified my statement upfront by stating sane and reasonable....

Or perhaps you're not sane or reasonable?

But either way you get my drift..

Sane and reasonable means looking at things objectionably and using evidence to backup your claims.

Do you have any evidence than the murder by left wing extremists commit for politically motivated murders than the right wind extremists? I have seen none. All evidence I have seen points to the opposite, though I suspect the tide may turn since the leftist extremists "enemy" is in office.

If you have any evidence that left wing extremists commit more murders than right wing extremists, then please post it or point it out.

Of course, none of this excuses the other side.


Scott, not a great list when you start it off with an anti-Trimp, anti-Hillary, Bernie supporter killing 2 people.

His viewpoints were definitely right wing extremists. Read them yourself. He also assaulted several left wing protesters.

He was a self proclaimed Bernie, Stein, and Trump supporter, which of course makes no sense. Obviously he was a a guy with issues. According to him, his support of Bernie was only to kill Hillary.

87224

and contradictory:

87225

[Iceaxe]

Thanks for proving my point with insane left wing rants....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170615/c6c311a1d80c3729ca2da52ff8fab2e4.jpg

[uintafly]

There are A-holes and wingnuts of every color, creed, religion, political party, nationality, fanbase, etc. In my experience, the ratio of normal to asshole is pretty static across the board. (with the exception of byu fans, who seem to have a very high % of wingnuts.) :nod:

With that being said, trying to blame this guy on the left or politicians or comedians or anyone is pretty stupid. Unless you want to start claiming every crime committed by some stranger who may have a few of the same beliefs as you.

[Scott P]

Thanks for proving my point with insane left wing rants....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170615/c6c311a1d80c3729ca2da52ff8fab2e4.jpg

Insane left wing rants? Is that the comeback for admitting that I was right and you have no proof that there have been more attacks from leftists extremists that right extremists? :ne_nau: Do you have any evidence? :ne_nau:

[hank moon]

### BREAKING NEWS ###

One side thinks the other is wrong, seeks to impose superior wisdom to bring about better world.

Pols chuckle as divided keep dividing.

[Iceaxe]

Napoleon and Hitler were born 129 years apart, they came into power 129 years apart, they declared war on Russia 129 years apart and they were defeated 129 years apart. Hitler was born 128 years ago. The next one will be born next year. Shit, is Melania pregnant?

[rockgremlin]

Napoleon and Hitler were born 129 years apart, they came into power 129 years apart, they declared war on Russia 129 years apart and they were defeated 129 years apart. Hitler was born 128 years ago. The next one will be born next year. Shit, is Melania pregnant?


What about Mussolini, Polpot and Ghengis Khan?

[Brian in SLC]

Wow...some whacky ad content on this thread!

87227

[oldno7]

Basically liberalism is a willful failure to mature beyond adolescence that can have catastrophic consequences for society.

moonbattery....

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/02/psychiatrist_co.html

confirmed!! liberalism is a disease.

[oldno7]

Wow...some whacky ad content on this thread!

87227

guess we know what you've been shopping for.

which five did you get?

[Brian in SLC]

guess we know what you've been shopping for.

which five did you get?

Funny....I have a buff I got several years ago from a mountain race. But, haven't shopped onlilne or googled anything like the face masks in the ad.

Not that I don't spend a bit of time on a few gun forums....

Ads by google to the right of this post: eBay for an Anschutz model 64 sport trigger. Now that I get!

[Scott P]

Good article from a local reporter:

http://www.craigdailypress.com/news/america-so-partisan-were-normalizing-violence/

The horrific Wednesday morning shooting targeting Republican members of Congress, and the reactions that followed, proved a steep decline in respect for human life when it comes to politics.

The GOP team members were at a park baseball field in Alexandria, Virginia, practicing for an annual charity baseball game against Democrats when a gunman — later identified as 66-year-old James T. Hodgkinson of Illinois, an apparent Democratic Socialist who volunteered on Bernie Sanders' presidential campaign — ambushed them, critically wounding House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (La.), two Capitol Police officers, a congressional aide and a lobbyist.

It was later confirmed that Hodgkinson asked someone whether the players on the field were Republicans or Democrats before pulling out a gun and opening fire.

In a beautiful moment of solidarity, the opposing Democrat baseball team members, who were also practicing that morning, came together to pray for their Republican colleagues.

I wish I could say that every reaction across the country showed as much class, but, despite both Republican and Democrat lawmakers' calls for unity, many "Americans" just couldn't stop themselves from making a partisan joke out of a tragedy.

"If the shooter has a serious health condition then is taking potshots at the GOP house leadership considered self defense?" tweeted writer Malcolm Harris, whose work has been featured in The Washington Post.

Many others took to Twitter saying that Republican lawmakers deserved the shooting because of their stance on gun control.

Unfortunately, this isn't the first time America's seen this kind of insensitive response, and the left certainly isn't the only party in history guilty of such cruelty.

We can't pretend it's a small, insignificant number of Americans behaving this way when popular culture and Hollywood ooze examples of it.

Recall, for example, Kathy Griffin's viral photo of herself holding the fake severed head of President Trump covered in blood, Madonna's comment about wanting to blow up The White House, Snoop Dogg's video of himself shooting a Trump lookalike and Ted Nugent's comment basically calling for the beheading of members of former President Barack Obama's administration.

Griffin's rather unimpressive career aside, these people are famous. Politically-charged messages laden with suggestions of violence toward lawmakers reach a wide audience when they come from famous mediums, leaving an influential mark on the culture of a country already sharply divided by politics.

Celebrities probably feel more comfortable than ever sending such brutal messages because political rhetoric in recent years has shifted from "defeat the opposition" to "do whatever it takes to destroy the opposition." Although I can't say with certainty this rhetoric drove Hodgkinson to carry out the shooting, I think its effects are evident in the vile reactions to his heinous act.

Lawmakers are increasingly viewed by supporters of their opposing party as symbols of America's potential demise rather than as human beings. At the root of this issue is how Americans internalize political messages intended to scare us against one party or the other and, although many have directed blame at the left's political rhetoric alone, I don't think the origin of this issue can be traced back to the left, the right or a specific individual.

The GOP baseball practice shooting was an act of domestic terrorism that left several families wondering if their loved ones would live to see another day. No human being should ever celebrate that. Although one party tends to point the finger at the other in times like this, I won't participate in the blame game because it's a viscous cycle offering no real solution.

"Violence of any kind is unacceptable in our society and I condemn this action in the strongest possible terms," said Sanders in a speech following the shooting. "Real change can only come about through nonviolent action, and anything else runs against our most deeply held American values."

For once, I agree with Bernie Sanders.

Pray for America.

[Brian in SLC]

Hey...if Ted can do it...?

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/06/16/ted-nugent-toning-down-hateful-rhetoric-after-scalise-shooting.html

We'll see if it sticks.

Good on him, though.