West Canyon - Lake Powell

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http://amazingslots.blogspot.com/2017/05/west-canyon-beta-lake-powell.html

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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Morbi velit metus, tempor ut dui vitae, sagittis dictum diam. Donec pulvinar, nisl ut pretium interdum, massa felis tristique augue, vel consectetur purus neque eget lectus. Donec non scelerisque justo. Cras ac massa maximus, euismod magna at, tempor mauris. Fusce ut odio nec risus iaculis luctus imperdiet at sapien. Vestibulum feugiat nunc sed odio consectetur, eget suscipit ligula convallis. Praesent varius arcu quis diam laoreet, ut malesuada odio laoreet. Mauris facilisis mi vel magna aliquet, at tincidunt mi sodales. Curabitur mi libero, faucibus eu fermentum dictum, ullamcorper vestibulum arcu. Donec quis blandit lacus, in imperdiet est. Suspendisse consequat dolor sit amet justo malesuada, sed posuere justo finibus. Proin pharetra vel turpis ut efficitur. Fusce tempor condimentum dolor vel tincidunt. Nulla blandit sagittis elit sit amet blandit.Vivamus posuere nunc vel aliquet porttitor. Etiam consectetur fermentum odio, sed imperdiet sem. Maecenas ac convallis ipsum. Proin sed purus pellentesque, fringilla risus in, tincidunt sem. Aenean mattis quis turpis non iaculis. Cras neque elit, imperdiet et tristique a, eleifend a quam. Curabitur vulputate congue enim vel placerat. Pellentesque elementum tortor ac interdum ullamcorper. Etiam quis dignissim sem, sed condimentum magna. Quisque hendrerit eros at quam ultricies molestie fermentum non dolor.Sed ut sapien congue, mattis ipsum in, cursus eros. In finibus elementum velit, et rutrum tortor auctor id. Etiam in ante nisl. Proin rutrum libero a nisi condimentum, dapibus suscipit lectus imperdiet. Donec consequat purus sed egestas rhoncus. Aenean cursus ut eros ac efficitur. Nunc et scelerisque eros, sit amet varius massa.Nulla non felis at lacus sollicitudin tristique. Quisque sem enim, dignissim ac porta vitae, blandit et lorem. Proin pretium placerat elit. Vivamus lobortis ut diam in pharetra. Sed ac aliquam lectus, in eleifend dui. Aliquam erat volutpat. Curabitur sagittis porttitor risus, sed dapibus mauris congue a. Nunc eget massa semper, condimentum lacus nec, ornare velit. Donec a elit mollis, aliquam lectus ut, auctor erat. Mauris sollicitudin ut nisi quis placerat. Proin faucibus erat massa, ut facilisis nisl facilisis et. Vestibulum consequat, odio quis viverra rhoncus, nisi nisl imperdiet nibh, consectetur dictum ante magna et augue.Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Sed pulvinar urna eget magna feugiat luctus. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Proin id porta justo. Praesent tincidunt lacus lectus, eget tincidunt tortor laoreet quis. Nullam ornare tempus sem nec lobortis. Aenean scelerisque hendrerit consequat. Duis congue ultricies velit et dictum. Proin feugiat augue ac nunc ultrices, sit amet iaculis elit accumsan. Nam lectus tellus, sagittis a nisl non, viverra eleifend turpis.

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[Slot Machine]

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[Slot Machine]

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[Slot Machine]

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[Slot Machine]

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Morbi velit metus, tempor ut dui vitae, sagittis dictum diam. Donec pulvinar, nisl ut pretium interdum, massa felis tristique augue, vel consectetur purus neque eget lectus. Donec non scelerisque justo. Cras ac massa maximus, euismod magna at, tempor mauris. Fusce ut odio nec risus iaculis luctus imperdiet at sapien. Vestibulum feugiat nunc sed odio consectetur, eget suscipit ligula convallis. Praesent varius arcu quis diam laoreet, ut malesuada odio laoreet. Mauris facilisis mi vel magna aliquet, at tincidunt mi sodales. Curabitur mi libero, faucibus eu fermentum dictum, ullamcorper vestibulum arcu. Donec quis blandit lacus, in imperdiet est. Suspendisse consequat dolor sit amet justo malesuada, sed posuere justo finibus. Proin pharetra vel turpis ut efficitur. Fusce tempor condimentum dolor vel tincidunt. Nulla blandit sagittis elit sit amet blandit.Vivamus posuere nunc vel aliquet porttitor. Etiam consectetur fermentum odio, sed imperdiet sem. Maecenas ac convallis ipsum. Proin sed purus pellentesque, fringilla risus in, tincidunt sem. Aenean mattis quis turpis non iaculis. Cras neque elit, imperdiet et tristique a, eleifend a quam. Curabitur vulputate congue enim vel placerat. Pellentesque elementum tortor ac interdum ullamcorper. Etiam quis dignissim sem, sed condimentum magna. Quisque hendrerit eros at quam ultricies molestie fermentum non dolor.Sed ut sapien congue, mattis ipsum in, cursus eros. In finibus elementum velit, et rutrum tortor auctor id. Etiam in ante nisl. Proin rutrum libero a nisi condimentum, dapibus suscipit lectus imperdiet. Donec consequat purus sed egestas rhoncus. Aenean cursus ut eros ac efficitur. Nunc et scelerisque eros, sit amet varius massa.Nulla non felis at lacus sollicitudin tristique. Quisque sem enim, dignissim ac porta vitae, blandit et lorem. Proin pretium placerat elit. Vivamus lobortis ut diam in pharetra. Sed ac aliquam lectus, in eleifend dui. Aliquam erat volutpat. Curabitur sagittis porttitor risus, sed dapibus mauris congue a. Nunc eget massa semper, condimentum lacus nec, ornare velit. Donec a elit mollis, aliquam lectus ut, auctor erat. Mauris sollicitudin ut nisi quis placerat. Proin faucibus erat massa, ut facilisis nisl facilisis et. Vestibulum consequat, odio quis viverra rhoncus, nisi nisl imperdiet nibh, consectetur dictum ante magna et augue.Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Sed pulvinar urna eget magna feugiat luctus. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Proin id porta justo. Praesent tincidunt lacus lectus, eget tincidunt tortor laoreet quis. Nullam ornare tempus sem nec lobortis. Aenean scelerisque hendrerit consequat. Duis congue ultricies velit et dictum. Proin feugiat augue ac nunc ultrices, sit amet iaculis elit accumsan. Nam lectus tellus, sagittis a nisl non, viverra eleifend turpis.

[WalkingMan]

HAHA!
Look at this ass-clown!

Getting ready to make his big debut as a bold explorer. Ready to join the ranks of Shackleton, Lewis & Clark, Hillary & Norgay, and the like.

Pretty sure they would at least get out of bed before 9 a.m. on their explorations!

Bob, you're a joke. Your teammates talk, and they agree.

Get over yourself.

[twotimer]

Who the hell are you and what's your problem with Slotmachine? Nice way to roll into the forum, dude.

Quite frankly, Bob is a badass. He's got a lot of respect around here...something you're choking with right off the bat.

[jman]

HAHA!
Look at this ass-clown!

Getting ready to make his big debut as a bold explorer. Ready to join the ranks of Shackleton, Louis & Clark, Hillary & Norgay, and the like.

Pretty sure they would at least get out of bed before 9 a.m. on their explorations!

Bob, you're a joke. Your teammates talk, and they all agree.

Get over yourself.

Remember how you said in the other thread "Be careful Bob, your character is showing"?? Talk about calling the kettle black...

Sure, these canyons have been explored way before Bob did, however, he will be the first to publish them in great detail, which is what you are probably afraid of (and the other first explorers I'm sure).

But wild guess here, but he probably asked for beta and he wasn't given it or very little of it, etc. So Bob and his friends went in, explored it, took a bunch of notes, pictures, etc and is about to share it with the world. Again, just my wild guess, hence the preamble and hype leading up to it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Iceaxe]

:popcorn:

[Iceaxe]

HAHA!
Look at this ass-clown!

And while we're on subject of ass-clowns how about telling us who we are actually talking with so we can understand which dog you have in this fight?

Or are you going to make me go over to CC and play detective to see who the IP address belongs to?

[rockgremlin]

I'm just glad Bob is still alive. The last I heard, he went to West Canyon and then fell off the map. I thought perhaps he fell victim to a Ralstone or maybe that he had succumbed to the effects of climate change...


Thoroughly enjoying this thread. It's been a little while since we've had a good ole beat-your-chest beta war. :popcorn:

[Sombeech]

But wild guess here, but he probably asked for beta and he wasn't given it or very little of it, etc. So Bob and his friends went in, explored it, took a bunch of notes, pictures, etc and is about to share it with the world. Again, just my wild guess, hence the preamble and hype leading up to it.


I know nothing on this topic, so why does this explanation sound so right?

[Slot Machine]

But wild guess here, but he probably asked for beta and he wasn't given it or very little of it, etc.

I asked for no beta. We had zero beta. We didn't need any beta. We won't need any beta in the future.

The rest is a good assessment.

[Jolly Green]

Here's a quick and handy reference for those playing along at home and all those who have been to upper West before (so you know what canyon is being referred to):

Porcupine- Hall of Horrors
Cheetah- Happy Ending
Lynx- not previously explored
Leopard- Amnesia
Tiger- Arch Rival
Lion- Upper West Narrows
Ocelot- Humble Beginnings
Sabertooth- Cosmar (Romanian for "nightmare")
Bobcat- Full House

Well done Bob and crew. You saw some exquisite canyons.

[twotimer]

HAHA!
Look at this ass-clown!

Louis & Clark,
Ya might want to look that one up, Bozo.

I never pass an opportunity to poke a snob in the eye.

[WalkingMan]

Ya might want to look that one up, Bozo.

I never pass an opportunity to poke a snob in the eye.

Lewis. Happy?

[WalkingMan]

Here's a quick and handy reference for those playing along at home and all those who have been to upper West before (so you know what canyon is being referred to):

Porcupine- Hall of Horrors
Cheetah- Happy Ending
Lynx- not previously explored
Leopard- Amnesia
Tiger- Arch Rival
Lion- Upper West Narrows
Ocelot- Humble Beginnings
Sabertooth- Cosmar (Romanian for "nightmare")
Bobcat- Full House

Well done Bob and crew. You saw some exquisite canyons.

Ohe yeah, Lets not forget the helicopter approach. The "Pussy' route - In keeping with the cat theme

[Slot Machine]

Now that you mention it, doing things the very manliest way possible is a big deal to me too. I’ve always thought that the dudes that drive boats to West are pussies for not swimming the 27 miles from Antelope Marina. Swim you pansies! SWIM!

I remember feeling really manly after hauling a weeks worth of exploration gear overland to the top of West. I remember my leg not working properly afterwards, for a year. It has been such a manly problem to have. I remember Tony gorilla taping his toes every morning of that trip because the approach hike was so brutal that it basically dissolved his feet. He couldn’t wear shoes for three months afterwards. Manly, says I! @AbsoluteGravity , can we get a photo of those manly toes? I remember Sam vomiting his guts out for an hour after the approach. He is a very manly dude; he shaves after breakfast and has a full grown beard by lunch time, so we were rather impressed by his manly vomit, I tell you what. Steph has a calcification on the back of her heel from that week, mostly caused by the hike in and out. Carrying 43% of her own weight on the approach probably added some manliness to her heel, a good thing of course. We call the calcification her West bone spur. No doubt, if you hike so fu*king hard that you get a bone spur in one week, that qualifies as manly.

Because my canyon names are obviously not manly enough, I’m going to rename them: Chest Hair, Islay Scotch, Cuban Cigar, Bacon Buffet, Handlebar Mustache, Jock Strap, Welding Mask, Ron Swanson, and finally, Stainless Steel Trough Urinal.

There ya go kid. Now we can both feel manly.

[rockgremlin]

^^^ LOL this thread just gets better and better.

[WalkingMan]

Now that you mention it, doing things the very manliest way possible is a big deal to me too. I’ve always thought that the dudes that drive boats to West are pussies for not swimming the 27 miles from Antelope Marina. Swim you pansies! SWIM!

I remember feeling really manly after hauling a weeks worth of exploration gear overland to the top of West. I remember my leg not working properly afterwards, for a year. It has been such a manly problem to have. I remember Tony gorilla taping his toes every morning of that trip because the approach hike was so brutal that it basically dissolved his feet. He couldn’t wear shoes for three months afterwards. Manly, says I! @AbsoluteGravity , can we get a photo of those manly toes? I remember Sam vomiting his guts out for an hour after the approach. He is a very manly dude; he shaves after breakfast and has a full grown beard by lunch time, so we were rather impressed by his manly vomit, I tell you what. Steph has a calcification on the back of her heel from that week, mostly caused by the hike in and out. Carrying 43% of her own weight on the approach probably added some manliness to her heel, a good thing of course. We call the calcification her West bone spur. No doubt, if you hike so fu*king hard that you get a bone spur in one week, that qualifies as manly.

Because my canyon names are obviously not manly enough, I’m going to rename them: Chest Hair, Islay Scotch, Cuban Cigar, Bacon Buffet, Handlebar Mustache, Jock Strap, Welding Mask, Ron Swanson, and finally, Stainless Steel Trough Urinal.

There ya go kid. Now we can both feel manly.


Oh yeah, the overland backpack trip where you were forgiving your teammates their permit fees to CARRY YOUR STUFF. weak

Exploration gear? What special gear do you carry for exploration that isn't just regular canyoneering gear? Does the teddy bear come along so you have someone to keep you company while your stronger and vastly more skilled teammates solve the problems?

Why the hell was your wife carrying so much stuff? unless some of it was yours...:roll: Carrying that much weight only speaks to your incompetence.

It's also sooooo manly to make your crew wait till 9 a.m. to start every day because you're cold and don't want to get out of your sleeping bag!

Sorry to interrupt two-timer jerking you off, back to your regularly scheduled programming...

[rockgremlin]

Every post in this thread is like....Christmas morning.

Can't wait for the rebuttal...:popcorn:

[Iceaxe]

:popcorn:

[twotimer]

Sorry to interrupt two-timer jerking you off, back to your regularly scheduled programming...Oh sweetheart! I'd much rather jerk YOU off! Send me a PM, big boy!...let's hook up.

[TommyBoy]

:roflol:

[Slot Machine]

Oh yeah, the overland backpack trip where you were wearing wool socks that smelled like sweat... your sweat.

Mmmm.

Your.

Sweat.

I have a jar full of it. Some of it is on my hand right now.

Dude. Take it easy. How did you get jar full of my sweat?


Exploration gear? What special gear do you carry for exploration that isn't just regular canyoneering gear? I've been told by twelve of your friends that I have locked in my basement that you brought vegan jerky to West. Who the hell brings vegan jerky to West? Can I have one of your empty vegan jerky wrappers, just to be safe? I'll put it inside another jar and keep it forever and ever. Can you send me a lock of your hair Bob?

You tortured them until they gave you the details about my vegan jerky? ... Wait a minute. ... There was an animal crashing through our camp during our nights in West. It kept waking us up. Was that you??


I saw the live feed of you guys hiking, you know, the accidental SPOT broadcast of your awesome adventure. It was like I was right there with you. Every morning, 9AM, my pants hit the floor. Seriously, I just about jacked myself blind watching the SPOT website update. I'm wearing a bowling brace on my arm right now, trying to recover.

Yeah it is pretty weird when you get back from the middle of nowhere to discover there are like 235 people that know exactly where you have been hiking.


I'd sign my real name, but I can't handle the thought of you getting a restraining order against me.

Please sign your real name. I need to get a restraining order against you. Also, could you please let my friends out of your basement?


I went and got a tattoo of West on my arm. I had them label those canyons with your new names. Those new names are sick bro. I love you. We should be together. Think about it.

Sounds like a pretty cool tattoo. Creepy, but cool.


Can I have your old wetsuit? It's OK if you've peed in it. One of your kidnapped friends told me it had a lot of holes in it by the end of the trip. I wish I was there to hold you when you got cold.

I got cold, really cold, but not that cold! *looks around for my rape whistle*


86887

God damn, you creepy bastard! I wish that I was into what I'm doing as much as you are!


Bob, the thing I love most about you is the way that you crush nameless trolls. Seriously, you are a monster like that.

I think you are a super big coward for not signing your name. But yeah, thanks for the compliment. I'm going to go lock my front door now.

[Sombeech]

I'm setting this thread as my browser home page

[Slot Machine]

I found a severed ear in my mailbox this morning.

It was wrapped in a paper towel that had '9AM' written in blood on it.

Does anyone know who this ear belongs to??

[Sombeech]

Sounds like junk mail

[Scott P]

I found a severed ear in my mailbox this morning.

It was wrapped in a paper towel that had '9AM' written in blood on it.

Does anyone know who this ear belongs to??

It's mine. The wife took it literally when I said I'd give my left ear in order to do West Canyon on Mother's Day.

[badwobot]

Still waiting on this beta

[Slot Machine]

Still waiting on this beta

86897

[diesel]

Sounds like junk mail
That's ear mail, not to be confused with air mail and never confused with junk mail. Junk mail would only sorta look like ear mail if you were expanding the definition of packages to include boxes.

[rockgremlin]

That's ear mail, not to be confused with air mail and never confused with junk mail. Junk mail would only sorta look like ear mail if you were expanding the definition from packages to include boxes.

:roflol:

Where has our little troll gone? I'm anxiously awaiting another sassy accusation.

[Sombeech]

Sometimes it's best to fade away, rather than risk further embarrassment

[WalkingMan]

Sorry to leave ya’ll hangin, I was out exploring in Zion. I found a wicked slot right at the top of the tunnel. You won’t even believe it, like 2 minutes down the hill from the parking lot. Apparently I’m not the first one through as there were already bolts but I’m just psyched because I get NAMING RIGHTS!!! I did a quick search around to see if it’s been named but I’m mostly illiterate and refuse to acknowledge the website that questionably posted the info, so I’m going to have a big unveiling party of the name, right here on this thread.

I was going to release a dramatic video with wicked sweet background music and interviews of all the participants at the end to copy what some other dudes did when they did Poe but then I realized that’s already been done. Plus I severely injured my clavicle on the hike out. Brutal! I had so much exploration gear in my pack, I’m just going to try putting some gorilla tape on and toughing through for the other explorations I’ve got planned. Rest assured though, I was having a wicked good time and no one can ever take that away from me. Not ever, ever, ever.

Sorry, that was a little tangent, let me get back to the point of my post, to show you guys how awesome I am. I know, some of you have never been in a canyon with me, but I need you to know that I am a great canyoneer and explorer. You’ll be seeing a lot more of me around here as I plan on posting trip reports of every canyon I do because I’m obsessive compulsive and the only real satisfaction I get in life is building up my internet persona. Most importantly, I’m posting this for the betterment of not only the canyon community but for society in general. I mean, by posting this info I am potentially saving lives. Dang I’m important.

Alright, I’ve built the suspense enough. I was going to just write 1 word per day over multiple posts, but even I can’t wait to read my own post over and over again. I love the naming theme that’s been established and when I think of Zion I think of Sesame Street. So, I am naming this exquisite canyon- Big Bird Canyon.

I’ll throw out an invite to all those who want to live on the edge and explore with me, my next target is a super-secret slot below Mount Spry that I’m calling Mr Snuffleupagus. I got a map of Zion and named all the places that look like slot canyons way back in ’79 and now I’m out to conquer them. I’ve got some great names- Elmo, Cookie Monster, Bert & Ernie, Grover, and of course Oscar the Grouch. If any of you have done any canyons in Zion before, just wait for my trip reports and adjust the names of your photo albums accordingly.

[Slot Machine]

Sorry to leave ya’ll hangin, I was out exploring in Zion. I found a wicked slot right at the top of the tunnel. You won’t even believe it, like 2 minutes down the hill from the parking lot. Apparently I’m not the first one through as there were already bolts but I’m just psyched because I get NAMING RIGHTS!!!

The First Amendment is the coolest, isn’t it?



I did a quick search around to see if it’s been named but I’m mostly illiterate and refuse to acknowledge the website that questionably posted the info, so I’m going to have a big unveiling party of the name, right here on this thread.

You know, I’ve given that some serious thought. There IS a time-honored tradition of…

*scratches my nose*

Hold on… I've gotta sneeze…

http://img.pandawhale.com/57080-Shower-sneeze-shit-gif-Aaaah-A-y3NC.gif

Whoa! Pardon me! Sorry to get that all over you and the way that you do things.

Now I've gone and lost my train of thought. What was I saying?



I was going to release a dramatic video for you Bob, but Whitney Houston beat me to it. You are my Kevin Costner. He is such a great actor, especially in Field of Dreams. If you name it, I will come.


https://youtu.be/3JWTaaS7LdU


Maybe I’m remembering wrong, but I’m pretty sure Kevin said, “If you build it, they will come.”

Hey, by the way, how is your ear hole healing up? If a breeze blows across it just right, does it make a ‘whoo whoo’ sound, like when you blow across the top of a beer bottle?



Rest assured though, I was having a wicked good time and no one can ever take that away from me. Not ever, ever, ever.

Yeah, you’re God damn right kid! Good for you! Fun is what canyoneering is all about! :five:

[twotimer]

Sometimes it's best to fade away, rather than risk further embarrassmentApparently not in this case. I like his avatar, though.

[rockgremlin]

Hmmm, I'd have to give a slight edge to WalkingMan on this latest exchange. Machine lacked the creativity that he's normally famous for, and I'm awarding bonus points to WalkingMan for his hilarious Sesame Street naming convention. And I really hope he publishes beta for Big Bird...it sounds like a really cool slot!


:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[jman]

Hmmm, I'd have to give a slight edge to WalkingMan on this latest exchange. Machine lacked the creativity that he's normally famous for, and I'm awarding bonus points to WalkingMan for his hilarious Sesame Street naming convention. And I really hope he publishes beta for Big Bird...it sounds like a really cool slot!


:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

X2. Yeah! His post was actually quite funny in spite of the ad hominem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[twotimer]

Can somebody clue me in as to who it was that "originally" named these canyons? I know Kelsey assigned the Upper West Slot...I'm talking about the other ones. Were they published?

In other words, who's toes are getting stepped on?

[Sombeech]

So if somebody descends a canyon first, gives it a name, but doesn't publish the name outside his group of friends, what happens when somebody else descends it, gives it another name, and then publishes the name?

What would happen if we decided to name a canyon "WeberStateWildcatsCanyon" for 10 years, and then somebody stumbles upon an old journal from 200 years ago, naming it "CougarTown"?

Just curious.

[Iceaxe]

What would happen if we decided to name a canyon "WeberStateWildcatsCanyon" for 10 years, and then somebody stumbles upon an old journal from 200 years ago, naming it "CougarTown"?

No matter how much crying and whining some do there are really no rules for naming canyons. In my experience the canyon often becomes known by the name it was popularized under, provided it is a reasonable and fitting name.

A couple items of interest is I've noticed that crude, vulgar or stupid names seldom stick and are often quickly replaced by more palettable names by the general public.

Some try to use the name given to the canyon by the first to descend it but that often turns into a quagmire as first descents are really seldom first descents as there was always someone before you.

Some try to use the name of first published descent, which works a little better but still is not guaranteed.

As someone who has named several dozen of the popular canyoneering routes I can give the following advise if you want your name excepted. Come up with a name that fits the route or has a great back story to go with the route. Popularize the route itself by publishing beta and pictures. If it's a canyon complex themes work well and often stick.

There is some prestige and a modest amount of satisfaction that goes with a route becoming known under a name you hung on it, which is basically what this little pissing match is all about.

The two sides have now both presented their case and in 10 years we will all know how the canyoneering public voted :-).

One other item of interest is it's not unknown for canyoneering routes to change names over time for various reason. Keyhole in Zion is the best example I can think of as it was well known under the name Star Fish for a long time before morphing into Keyhole. I've always assume the reason for that was Keyhole was just a better and more exciting name.

[Slot Machine]

There is some prestige and a modest amount of satisfaction that goes with a route becoming known under a name you hung on it, which is basically what this little pissing match is all about.

This is about me being too lazy to use other people's names. Since I'm going to write about them, then I'll call them by the names I've been using for the past 18 months. I could not care less about what other people call them. I wish there was a way that I could quantify my apathy.

[rockgremlin]

I wish there was a way that I could quantify my apathy.

How about Utah-Jazz-offense-in-game-six-of-the-western-conference-playoffs apathetic?

Not sure if you could define a higher level of apathy than that.

[Iceaxe]

28-3AtlantaFalcons.... for the win.

[jman]

The two sides have now both presented their case and in 10 years we will all know how the canyoneering public voted :-).

One other item of interest is it's not unknown for canyoneering routes to change names over time for various reason. Keyhole in Zion is the best example I can think of as it was well known under the name Star Fish for a long time before morphing into Keyhole. I've always assume the reason for that was Keyhole was just a better and more exciting name.

That seems to be true with "Klaidescope" which is now Choprock Canyon and "Edge of the Earth" which is now Neon canyon.

I went to the "Gorging" premiere a few years back and remember Turville wanting Neon Canyon to be reverted back to "Edge of the Earth"...which hasn't happened.

Ironically, he's the same guy who refused to get involved with the Internet forums and the like.

The same will be with these Powell canyons.

ParapalegicMan says that these have been published before (which they really haven't...) and now with Bob publishing the beta (in the upcoming weeks), the worldwide web will now be referring them to his cat names and not "Amnesia" and the like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[twotimer]

The two sides have now both presented their case and in 10 years we will all know how the canyoneering public voted :-).

Great post. Indeed, as I was out today I considered the same thing...let the chips fall where they may. Especially since I couldn't find anything on these canyons besides the trip reports over at CC.


Now if Kelsy had recently done and named these in an updated slot book, he'd get the nod. He takes precedence because he impressed me nearly 30 years ago. But that's not the case here. It's a free for all, but ya gotta admit Bob has done a damn fine job. Serious detail rules in my book. I look forward to him filling in the beta on the rest of them.

I figure Mr. Walkingman is one of the crew that banged those out a year or two ago. My gut feeling tells me he's not a greenhorn. I wonder if any of the others have shit the shorts because of this? Hey Bob...post those up over at CC...just to see what happens, eh?

Speaking of assigning names, one of Steve Allen's books details the in and outs of the canyons on the east side of the lower Escalante, between Moody and Stevens.

Prima Donna, Fold, Shofar, Hydra, Ichabod and Beryl. He named them himself and explained the reasons for each name. I have no doubt the cowboys and the Navajo had names for them back in the day, as their sheep ladders, walls and campsites can be found in some of them. Allen either didn't consult the locals about them or he didn't care. That was 20 years ago.

Have the names stuck? Hell if I know...I can't recall a single trip report in regards to them. Backpacking and straight up Canyoneering seem to be two different animals. It seems to me that Canyoneering has a bit of a snob factor to it...at least in regards to those with smoke billowing out their ears.

[Scott P]

That seems to be true with "Klaidescope" which is now Choprock Canyon

The name Choprock is much older than Kaleidoscope, though perhaps it could be argued that Choprock refers to the main fork.


and "Edge of the Earth" which is now Neon canyon.

I don't know which name is older, but Turville was wrong that Neon is a new name. Neon Canyon was first published in 1988, but it was already a well-used name by then. It is certainly possible that the name Neon is older than Edge of the Earth as neon lighting had its hay day well before that.

Much older than either name is Caverns Hollow, but there seems to be some confusion as to if Caverns Hollow refers to Neon or Ringtail.


Now if Kelsy had recently done and named these in an updated slot book, he'd get the nod. He takes precedence because he impressed me nearly 30 years ago.

Does that mean that Sandthrax should revert to Kelsey's name of Mile 28.5 Mile Canyon.:wink:

[TommyBoy]

Does that mean that Sandthrax should revert to Kelsey's name of Mile 28.1 Mile Canyon.:wink:

Leps are Mile 28.1, Sandthrax is 28.5

[Scott P]

Leps are Mile 28.1, Sandthrax is 28.5

True. I'll edit.

[twotimer]

Does that mean that Sandthrax should revert to Kelsey's name of Mile 28.5 Mile Canyon.:wink:Ah-ha!!! Well exceptions can be made, especially when (like Iceaxe said) the name fits.

I wonder why he didn't put names to those...did you ever talk to him about that? I kinda remember him telling me he would go to lengths to ask around about those things.

Inquiring with locals.

[Scott P]

I wonder why he didn't put names to those...did you ever talk to him about that?

Yes; he says that he doesn't like silly names. That's why his books contain names such as Little North Middle Fork of ___ Canyon.


I kinda remember him telling me he would go to lengths to ask around about those things.

He actually likes to use local names only and very seldom names from canyoneers.

[twotimer]

Yes; he says that he doesn't like silly names. That's why his books contain names such as Little North Middle Fork of ___ Canyon.



He actually likes to use local names only and very seldom names from canyoneers.Yeah, you're right. He'd probably name those other slots in West "Northeast Fork", ect...

If I were with him on those, I'd suggest "Shingles" or maybe "Palestine" or "63 MPG". How about "Mosquito Death".:lol8:

[ratagonia]

It's a free for all, but ya gotta admit Bob has done a damn fine job.

No I don't. :moses:

[SRG]

In the name of compromise I think everyone should agree on at least one canyon name...

The Hall of Horrible Porcupines

[Scott P]

.....

[twotimer]

No I don't. :moses:Why not??? They're detailed with what you'll need with nifty pics. Personally, I'll be happy to run thru one of them knowing what gear I specifically DON'T have to carry. It's better than "These canyons are tough, better bring the full arsenal"...and that's it.

To me, assuming that Mr. Walkingman was part of the crew...it's like he's trying to lay claim on the girl because she granted him a dance when some other dude ended up boinking her in the back of his car.

I reckon you think first dibs gets the prize, eh? Especially if you were there? Well, we'll see what sticks. Perhaps put them up on your website?

[Iceaxe]

To me, assuming that Mr. Walkingman was part of the crew...it's like he's trying to lay claim on the girl because she granted him a dance when some other dude ended up boinking her in the back of his car.

^^^THIS^^^

ROFLMAO

please just tell me the car was a jacked up Nova in primer with Creger mags and big ol' meats on the back.

[twotimer]

please just tell me the car was a jacked up Nova in primer with Creger mags and big ol' meats on the back.Nope...those were for the rich kids. More like a 1972 Datsun pickup with a topper on the back.

Police officer tapping the window with his flashlight..."You OK in there, Miss?":haha: Ah, the good ole' days...

[Canyonero]

But wild guess here, but he probably asked for beta and he wasn't given it or very little of it, etc.

Would you give him beta knowing how he treats others on the forum and how he treats canyons and other wild areas? Knowing his lack of respect for those who have passed before and his endangerment of access for those who will come later?

[Canyonero]

now with Bob publishing the beta (in the upcoming weeks), the worldwide web will now be referring them to his cat names and not "Amnesia" and the like.


Prediction: In 10 years no one will be using the cat names. Why not? Because they're dumb names.

[Canyonero]

In other words, who's toes are getting stepped on?

Yours are being stepped on. And mine. And everyone else who will canyoneer in the years to come who will no longer have the opportunity to do an exploration of these canyons without knowing if or how they've been done before. That's what is being lost here.

[Canyonero]

There is some prestige and a modest amount of satisfaction that goes with a route becoming known under a name you hung on it, which is basically what this little pissing match is all about..

Absolutely not. While many think the names are kind of dumb and that it is very disrespectful to not use the names the first explorers gave them as per convention in climbing and canyoneering for decades once you've been told what they are, that's really not what this is about. This is about prematurely ending the exploration era in an area of Southern Utah that has, up until very recently, been considered to be an area reserved for an exploration ethic. Just like some climbing areas have a "no bolting" ethic, only one of the dozen canyoneering areas in the state had, until very recently, been reserved as an exploration area.

Today, if someone has done many of the hard-core published canyons, they can go to Glen Canyon and explore. Sometimes they'll find signs of previous passage, but most of the time they won't because these explorers adopted a ghosting ethic- no sling, no rope grooves, and certainly no bolts. For the most part these explorers can have the same experience as the first explorers, and it is an awesome experience. I'm sad to think that in 30 years (or maybe 5 if Slot Machine has his way) that this experience will no longer be available. Instead, you'll be able to download an 8 page beta sheet from BlueGnome, complete with GPS points and a description of every turn, drop, and anchor, and it'll be no different than the experience you have in Pine Creek Canyon.

Kind of sad really. Not quite sad enough to start mailing ears, but certainly sad enough to point out to the canyoneering community what is being lost here.

[Slot Machine]

Would you give him beta knowing how he treats others on the forum...

I don't need it. Thanks for finally stopping by to lick my balls.

[twotimer]

Yours are being stepped on. And mine. And everyone else who will canyoneer in the years to come who will no longer have the opportunity to do an exploration of these canyons without knowing if or how they've been done before. That's what is being lost here.Anyone that wants to go in completely clueless can do one simple thing...don't read anything about it.

[twotimer]

Another thing...guys that posted info and pictures about these slots are all pissed off because...somebody else posted info and pictures about these slots.

The only thing worse than snobs are the hypocritical ones.

I'd bet Poe is getting gangbanged on a daily basis these days, eh?

[TommyBoy]

Another thing...guys that posted info and pictures about these slots are all pissed off because...somebody else posted info and pictures about these slots.

The only thing worse than snobs are the hypocritical ones.


Not really, they didn't want the area to be published at all, but they knew that Bob was going back in and so it was gonna happen so they tried to get their names out there.



I'd bet Poe is getting gangbanged on a daily basis these days, eh?


Hyperbole aside it has seen an increase in traffic with rope grooves starting to form in some places from improper techniques. On my second trip to the area we actually ran in to another group while we were down there that was in the area to do the same thing.

[Slot Machine]

No I don't. :moses:

Have you been through any of these? Wanna help me edit? :haha:

[twotimer]

Not really, they didn't want the area to be published at all, but they knew that Bob was going back in and so it was gonna happen so they tried to get their names out there.



Well now...it appears there there was some drama going on behind the scenes. A disagreement between the hardcore canyon baggers goes public.

"Hey man...Bob is going to spill the beans on our super secret canyons. We'd better do it first to claim the naming rights".

Fistfights at the trailhead ensue. Nice job, boys. This reminds me of all the pissing and moaning about Kelsey, but jacked up on 'roids.

I also can't believe that rank amateurs are going thru these remote, very difficult canyons. If they're leaving rope grooves then perhaps the guys that are beating each other up over naming rights should instead create threads detailing how to do it right?

[TommyBoy]

I also can't believe that rank amateurs are going thru these remote, very difficult canyons. If they're leaving rope grooves then perhaps the guys that are beating each other up over naming rights should instead create threads detailing how to do it right?

That's one of the arguments against publishing these in the first place, it draws out the inexperienced people that feel like they can do it now because of the beta. There is a fair bit of beta out there on Poe and yet this damage still happens, for people to venture in to these places it shouldn't be necessary to publish a step by step walkthrough of how to descend them properly, by not publishing them it creates a barrier for those less confident in their skills so that once they go they do it properly.

There is plenty of wonderful betaed canyons out there where the masses can practice and build up their skills, let them go there until they are ready for a place like West and they will enjoy it and respect it all the more for the work they had to put in to get there. Anything easy to obtain will not be respected at the level it might deserve.

[Phavant]

Wouldn't say these have been secret. I am not real vocal and read more then I speak, but I knew about them just by hanging around on the forums. I for one appreciated that there was not beta and looked forward to the opportunity to go sniff them out and explore them. There are plenty of canyons that have been beta. Leave some areas free to explore.
Well now...it appears there there was some drama going on behind the scenes. A disagreement between the hardcore canyon baggers goes public.

"Hey man...Bob is going to spill the beans on our super secret canyons. We'd better do it first to claim the naming rights".

Fistfights at the trailhead ensue. Nice job, boys. This reminds me of all the pissing and moaning about Kelsey, but jacked up on 'roids.

I also can't believe that rank amateurs are going thru these remote, very difficult canyons. If they're leaving rope grooves then perhaps the guys that are beating each other up over naming rights should instead create threads detailing how to do it right?

[jman]

Anything easy to obtain will not be respected at the level it might deserve.

I get what you are saying in principle and have seen examples of where this is true, but I disagree as well.

There are dozens of canyons that have easy access, are easy technically, and have an easy exit. Yet, they remain in "great" condition despite all of the local traffic.

People think that just because a canyon receives a ton of visitors that its a bad thing? That might be on par with the "purists".

But the irony here is that canyoneering IS exploring these slot canyons. And so EVERY descent is doing damage, even when precise care is being taken by noobs and experts alike.

If we want canyons to be pure - don't descend them. But that would defeat the entire purpose of canyoneering...quite the predicament!!

There HAS to be a trade-off to canyoneering. People get to see these amazing canyons but at what cost?

So doing Pinecreek with a max limit of 50/day is okay with everyone, but Poe having maybe less than a hundred people a year (rough guess) doing it a year is not-acceptable? Why is Pinecreek less protected than Poe?? Just because Poe is more remote? These are rhetorical questions.

You driving to the trailhead is making the road more distinguished. You walking on any trail to the canyon is making more of a defined trail. You using sand and water anchors in a "pristine" canyon is taking that natural sand and water from that local ecosystem which that local floral and fauna use and then transport it to a different system - causing more erosion, etc.

People using deodorant and soaps and then jumping into potholes, like in Imlay for example, are disturbing that pothole ecosystem. Etc.

The list goes on and on and so you (we) have a choice to make - ignore the issue and don't get involved with the canyoneering process, naming, protection, and access.

Or once the beta is out, educate the heck out of people.

My personal belief is that education, showing by example, engaging (civilly) with people who disagree with you, speaking up when you see problems (For example, I saw people etch their names on Double O Arch once in Arches NP and around 50+ people around the arch didn't say a word...except for one person. That was me. I told them to stop and then about 4 or 5 people joined in and were telling them, now forcefully, to stop doing that. They stopped and were awfully embarrassed. And I'm hoping that will open their eyes and change their behavior. (But people have their agency and I can only comment on things that I see or witness).


In other words - now that the cat is out of the bag - how is (or how should), the canyoneering community react to newly published beta?!

Btw - this wasn't directly specifically at you TommyBoy, but your question got me thinking and is meant for the community.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TommyBoy]

I get what you are saying in principle and have seen examples of where this is true, but I disagree as well.

There are dozens of canyons that have easy access, are easy technically, and have an easy exit. Yet, they remain in "great" condition despite all of the local traffic.


I think one of the big differences between the two is that the the easy canyons are just that easy. When canyons get harder and anchor solutions get tricky less skilled canyoneers tend to take an easy way out like leaving behind webbing because they don't have someone who can downclimb (not the end of the world but nice to avoid when you can) or anchoring higher up and rapping multiple stages on one anchor and leaving behind rope grooves (this is very bad form in my opinion).

I am somewhat guilty of this myself from when I was a beginner, but I think there is a rush for some to get out to those big bad hard canyons and instead of waiting till they have the skills to do it properly they go there too soon and try to dumb down the canyon because they weren't ready for its challenges.



You driving to the trailhead is making the road more distinguished. You walking on any trail to the canyon is making more of a defined trail. You using sand and water anchors in a "pristine" canyon is taking that natural sand and water from that local ecosystem that floral and fauna use and transporting it to a different system - causing more erosion, etc. People using deodorant and soaps and then jumping into potholes like in Imlay for example are disturbing that pothole ecosystem. Etc.


The driving and hiking part I agree with, the potholes argument I've never understood, those things get destroyed every few months when a flash flood comes through bringing new sand/water/flora/fauna/etc. The ones out in the open away from slots need to be protected I do understand that, but anything in a slot is being flushed several times a year. If its fragile and its in a slot its not gonna survive anyway and if its not fragile the argument seems to go out the window.



The list goes on and on and so you (we) have a choice to make - ignore the issue and don't get involved with the canyoneering process, naming, protection, and access.

Or once the beta is out, educate the heck out of people.

My personal belief is that education, showing my example, engaging (civilly) with people who disagree with you, speaking up when you see problems (For example, I saw people etch their names on Double O Arch once in Arches NP and around 50+ people around the arch didn't say a word...except for one person. That was me. I told them to stop and then about 4 or 5 people joined in and were telling them, now forcefully, to stop doing that. They stopped and were awfully embarrassed. And I'm hoping that will open their eyes and change their behavior. But people have their agency and I can only comment on things that is see or witness).


In other words - now that the cat is out of the bag - how is (or how should), the canyoneering community react to newly published beta?!


Now that the beta is out education is absolutely imperative, I will agree on that, but the uproar is about it being published in the first place and I think my original argument on why not publishing beta in some areas at least has some merit. These areas are not easy to get to and the canyons are not easy to descend (at least if you're trying to do it without leaving marks) thus the no beta barrier is a good idea. Yes everyone should have the right to see them, but not publishing beta doesn't stop them. The area is still there if they want to go all they need to do is practice the skills necessary to do them properly. Or ask someone who does have the skills to take you, there are several out there who are willing so long as you agree to a few conditions that aren't really unreasonable.

Oh and jman you're fine, I understood it wasn't an attack on me personally, it was a POLITE well thought out response which is one of the things this discussion has been missing.

[Canyonero]

I don't need it. Thanks for finally stopping by to lick my balls.

I rest my case.

You know what surprises me the most though....that ANYONE wants to canyoneer with you. I presume there is a different persona in real life than online because I can't imagine anyone doing a second canyon with the one that shows up online. I mean, the people in your pictures seem like nice, normal people. It's hard to reconcile that with the way you treat people online.

"Hey man, mind carrying the rope for a while?"

"Lick my balls man!"

"What should we call this canyon? How about Potholes of Doom?"

"That's not a cat name! Every canyon I've ever done has to have a cat name ball-licker!"

[Canyonero]

Anyone that wants to go in completely clueless can do one simple thing...don't read anything about it.

I'm not sure you understand the essence of an exploration. There is far more to the process than not reading the book. The studying of maps, the poking around looking for a reasonable approach, the arriving "armed for bear" because you don't know what is there. Wondering if your skills are up to the task. Walking the rim before dropping in. Pulling that first rappel knowing you're committed and not knowing what's ahead. It's an aspect of canyoneering that can be pretty fun.

It's cool that it can be done in the same canyon more than once. Dozens of times even.

But you can really only publish beta for the first time once. In many ways, it is a selfish act. You've taken an experience that you got to have and ensured that no one else, ever again, can have it. Sad really.

Does the publication of these canyons in West affect me? Not really. I've already been there and done that. But an experience is being stolen from canyoneers who haven't been there and even people who haven't yet taken up canyoneering and replaced with a different experience, an experience that can be had in other canyoneering areas.

Is it too much to ask to have ONE unpublished, unbeta'd area in the entire state? How many published canyons are enough? 800? 1000? Those are the questions you should be asking rather than "can't those who want to explore just not read the book?"

[jman]

Is it too much to ask to have ONE unpublished, unbeta'd area in the entire state? How many published canyons are enough? 800? 1000? Those are the questions you should be asking rather than "can't those who want to explore just not read the book?"

I think that is a matter of perspective and not just a numbers game.

I think a LOT of the "hardcore" canyoneers start off with the easy stuff but simply get bored and want to do the harder stuff quick! I mean Keyhole to Heaps in one day. Nevermind the fact that Zion has like what 30 or 40 canyons to do where they can improve skills, etc...

Plus, there is a LOT of ego that goes into doing the "first descent" of a canyon. I have one under my belt and it felt great! No lie there. So everyone is trying to find the extreme areas; the road less travelled. Then, due to ego, its not fun holding onto this canyon alone if no one else can relate to the experience...so then word gets out and slowly but surely it emerges into mainstream beta list.

Look at Checkerboard canyon, that was "ousted" not too long ago. I asked a backcountry ranger about it and he said that he hears about 20 or less a month who actually get a permit for it. It's a gem of a canyon, but the long entrance hike and long entrance hike out discourages the hordes.

My guess is that West will still be this same way, except for better beta being available now. That's not a bad thing.

The only thing on trial here is the perceived users experience.

I can't remember if I read this on Bogley or CC, but I remember a user saying that what he likes to with canyoneering is know the highest rappel length, trailhead info, if there is water or not, and then just go for and experience it that way. I like that a lot actually.





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[Jolly Green]

Since I posted the info on Canyon Collective about 3 of the canyons noted on this thread, I'll give a little background. It was not my original idea to do this but I did support it. I have not been on a single exploration in the area and did not come up with a single name. My reason for posting was not to "stick it to Bob" but to acknowledge and give respect for the names chosen by those who have gone before. While I think the name "Smiling Cricket" is a great canyon name, I am glad that the canyon is known as "Poe" out of respect for Jenny Hall and Mike Bogart's original name.

In August 2014, 2 friends and I scouted out and completed an exploration of a slot. It was incredible. I liked figuring out the logistics of the approach, tackling each problem, and the inexplicable feeling of accomplishment and growth. The canyon was pristine, but on the big drop there was 1 undeniable rope groove. No first descent but an exploration to us that we will never forget as a group. We came up with a name that has multiple meanings and a great backstory- Siren. After reaching out to other canyoneers, we found out the canyon was done a measly 4 months before we went through and found out the original name it was given. A few weeks later another group went through the exact same slot and found out the same history we had discovered. They had the exact same experience we did. Remarkably, everyone refers to this under the original name, not their own. People gave respect to those who went through beforehand even though they didn't follow the unwritten rules of canyon naming.

I hope that gives some insight into where I am coming from. It was not my intention to create a war but I did assume that many of the same conversations about naming and publishing beta would occur. When I posted the names on this thread I told Bob and crew well done and my sentiments haven't changed. They did earn the right to hold on to or disseminate the info they obtained as they wish. My simple hope is that there is some respect shown for those who they know have already been there.

[twotimer]

I'm not sure you understand the essence of an exploration. Uh...with all due respect, you have absolutely no idea.

Someone once said to me "It does no good to curse the wind". With that in mind, I'd say it's only a matter of time before every slot, gully of a slot or anything that even resembles a slot has been explored. I'd guess that damn near everything significant already has. I wonder if 50 years from now the canyoneers of the period will be having conversations about this...to beta or not to beta. By then, I doubt there will be any secrets left. I say this in regards to the prior presence of humans leaving marks one way or another. "Pristine?" Well, you can wish in one hand and shit in the other.

Hate to say it, but I think you non-beta guys are a slowly dying breed.

As for the thrill of discovery, I stand by my original statement...go in blind and there you have it. Don't read about it, don't look it up online...just grab a 7.5, load up the pack and go. You can pretend you're a French explorer back in the 1700s.

BTW, the posts today are nice and reasonable. Everyone was very well stated, but I'd have to throw my hat in with what jman had to say.

[Scott P]

Speaking of West Canyon, it appears that I will be between projects in June, which means time off.

Does anyone want to head to West Canyon?

[rockgremlin]

Speaking of West Canyon, it appears that I will be between projects in June, which means time off.

Does anyone want to head to West Canyon?


I'm waiting for the beta to be published then I'm gonna invite my son's entire Boy Scout troop to go down with me. It's gonna be awesome!!!

[jman]

I'm waiting for the beta to be published then I'm gonna invite my son's entire Boy Scout troop to go down with me. It's gonna be awesome!!!

All 500 Scouts - in one day?

Sounds like they need a permit...

[emoji6]


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[twotimer]

I'm waiting for the beta to be published then I'm gonna invite my son's entire Boy Scout troop to go down with me. It's gonna be awesome!!!:roflol:Christ almighty!!! And I thought I was a smartass!

[twotimer]

Speaking of West Canyon, it appears that I will be between projects in June, which means time off.

Does anyone want to head to West Canyon?Scott...have you done any hiking in the area? Specifically Aztec Creek and Cummings Mesa? The overland route to West...or are you thinking of coming up from the lake?

[Canyonero]

Speaking of West Canyon, it appears that I will be between projects in June, which means time off.

Does anyone want to head to West Canyon?

In June? Do you hate your life? :)

Seriously though, do I have to buy my seat on the helicopter or are you covering it?

[Iceaxe]

Ohe yeah, Lets not forget the helicopter approach. The "Pussy' route - In keeping with the cat theme

If think it's cute how poor people who can't afford a helicopter try to make those who can feel bad... Just a heads up, it's not working.

Next up the guys who can't afford a boat will be bitching about how the route is degraded if you don't swim to West Canyon.

Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a helicopter drop off and pick up in West Canyon and that's pretty much the same thing.

[emoji631]

[Scott P]

Scott...have you done any hiking in the area?

Yes, but not for a few years.


Specifically Aztec Creek and Cummings Mesa?

Yes. I have been all the way through Aztec Creek, overland to the Cathedral Canyon area, to the Hourglass, and West From Cummings Mesa. I have been to West Canyon from the lake as well. Unfortunately I have not been through the upper slot because of weather conditions. I have also done the East Fork of West Canyon all the way through as well.

I have not however, done the overland route from Jayi Canyon. Supposedly it's quite a bit easier than the route from Cummings Mesa, though I do like the mesa itself.

If you are interested, here are some photos we took on a trip through Aztec and overland to the Cathedral Canyon area (there is lots to see in between):

http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/505928.JPG

http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/506937.JPG

http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/509404.JPG

http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/506932.JPG

We also found a presumably historic Wethrill inscription:

http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/509411.JPG


The overland route to West...or are you thinking of coming up from the lake?

I don't have a boat myself, so if someone else came with a boat, I could come in that way. Otherwise, I'd have to come in overland.

I still need to do canyons such as Anasazi, Mountain Sheep, and Wethrill as well.

[rockgremlin]

^^^Scott -- Did you take your dog canyoneering? (That third pic)

[Scott P]

^^^Scott -- Did you take your dog canyoneering? (That third pic)

No. I do not have a dog. That was someone else's.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of dogs in the wilderness, but I usually let others make their own decisions. I guess that's a different topic though.

[twotimer]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of dogs in the wilderness, but I usually let others make their own decisions. I guess that's a different topic though.I'm not a dog guy either. I simply don't have time for one.

A girlfriend of mine has several, and she wanted to bring one on a big backpack in the Dirty Devil area. I was totally against it...because that dog would go after snakes, any snakes. I told her it would ABSOLUTELY SUCK to watch it suffer and die after a rattler nailed it.

She insisted it come along. So I did what I usually do with someone when they want to go right and I want to go left...let's flip a coin. The loser sucks it up, no bitching or complaining. I lost this one.

Aspen is a great dog, and he did just fine. No rattlers to be seen (early April) but I can't understand why some people would abandon common sense and literally love their pets to death.

[Iceaxe]

Hahaha... the dogs remind my of this awesome story.....

A Sh***y Day in Heaps
http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/canyontales/tale/?i=shtheaps

[Taylor]

Speaking of West Canyon, it appears that I will be between projects in June, which means time off.

Does anyone want to head to West Canyon?yes

[Canyonero]

If think it's cute how poor people who can't afford a helicopter try to make those who can feel bad... Just a heads up, it's not working.

Next up the guys who can't afford a boat will be bitching about how the route is degraded if you don't swim to West Canyon.

Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a helicopter drop off and pick up in West Canyon and that's pretty much the same thing.

[emoji631]

I love that you think I can't afford a 20 minute helicopter ride. But my financial situation isn't really the point.

I'm MUCH more concerned about what access to canyons on Navajo land will look like when people are flying in to canyons every week, even if it is legal to land on Navajo Land. To maintain access to canyons on Navajo land, most of us have been keeping a very low profile for years-permits, leave no trace, access from the lake, self-rescuing injuries/rescues etc. I don't know what the helicopter regs are on Navajo Land, but it's illegal to land one within the boundaries of Glen Canyon National Recreation Area:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/7.70
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/2.17

This is all aside from the issue of wussifying the wilderness experience. Maybe we can run the paved trail at the Temple of Sinawava all the way up the Narrows so that even those whose leg would hurt for a year after a hike can still have that experience in their wheelchair. Last I checked, it's not supposed to be easy to get into wild places. That's what makes it so fun to go there. Whatever you think about Kelsey, you've got to admit the dude isn't afraid to go for a good long walk.

[Scott P]

I don't know what the helicopter regs are on Navajo Land

It is illegal without permission. That's one of the main reasons why the canyons in the Kaibito Chapter are closed. Someone went in there with a helicopter, bolted the !@#$ out of everything, claiming 1st descents of canyons that were done years ago, all without any permits or permission and including after the canyons were closed!

[twotimer]

I have not however, done the overland route from Jayi Canyon. Supposedly it's quite a bit easier than the route from Cummings Mesa, though I do like the mesa itself.



I still need to do canyons such as Anasazi, Mountain Sheep, and Wethrill as well.Hmmm...somebody changed the title of this thread?

Anyway...Jayi Canyon. I've looked at that possibility, and I agree that it would be an easier hike. That road ends right smack at someone's house...I've gotten plenty of permits in Navajo land, but always at established trailheads. Round Rock, the old Rainbow Lodge, Navajo Begay and Kaibito near Butterfly (closed now). I wonder how they would feel about going deep into their turf and parking there? I remember hearing about cars being vandalized over by Tsegi and those areas closer to Kayenta. Keep out, white man.

I suppose the vehicles can be parked before that creek and the hike can go in west of the house...Do you think Jayi may be doable? I may give their permit office a call and ask about it.

Cummings Mesa is a hike that can't be beat, though. But getting up there to see the neat stuff...ruins, an abandon hogan and the big pothole up there, can still be done with a dayhike from West.

I've been through the slot of Wethrill (no big raps, lots of down climbing and short rope work) and climbed the dilapidated sheep trail up Mountain Sheep to the mesa, but not into that slot.

Anasazi, along with Lehi in particular, are fantastic. Here's a few pics from those canyons. Obviously, lots of swimming in both.

[twotimer]

Oh my! It looks like Slotmachine completely destroyed the beta on those nifty slots in West. Guess we've got to wing it now, eh?

[Canyonero]

Oh my! It looks like Slotmachine completely destroyed the beta on those nifty slots in West. Guess we've got to wing it now, eh?

Doesn't sound to me like that's going to cause you any issues!

Not sure of the reason, but I hope it's just because special places deserve special treatment so I say kudos.

[Iceaxe]

It appears that Bob moved the West Canyon beta to a personal website.
http://amazingslots.blogspot.com/

[jman]

It appears that Bob moved the West Canyon beta to a personal website.
http://amazingslots.blogspot.com/

That's some good stuff there!

Time to schedule my flight by helicopter... :)


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[twotimer]

Oh for cryin' out loud!!! All this talk of the helicopter I assumed was of some guys that Kelsey knew that flew in back in the 90s. Talk about being out of the loop!

Bob...I thought that you and your crew had hiked in from Round Rock and up and over the mesa! Or was that on another trip?

Anyway...got permission to land there, eh? If I could pull that off YOU BET YOUR ASS I'd fly in, too. Rock and roll, dude! My God...you could bring watermelons!

The blog has been bookmarked...and I don't blame you for scratching it here after all the BS from the snobs. Your blog is fantastic.

I was a little worried this morning but now it's all good.

[Canyonero]

It appears that Bob moved the West Canyon beta to a personal website.
http://amazingslots.blogspot.com/

Figured it was too good to be true. Must have wanted to use a site where no one could post criticism of his ethics next to his beta.

[Scott P]

.Do you think Jayi may be doable? I may give their permit office a call and ask about it.

Apparently it's now the "official" trailhead, though the permit offices don't always communicate this to the residents!


All this talk of the helicopter I assumed was of some guys that Kelsey knew that flew in back in the 90s. Talk about being out of the loop!

Me too! I thought the Navajos didn't allow access by helicopter. Has this changed?

[jman]

Figured it was too good to be true. Must have wanted to use a site where no one could post criticism of his ethics next to his beta.

Makes sense.

I don't blame him for doing that (if that is indeed his reasoning for all of the changes?).

It's his written up beta, his "ousting" of the West slots, his TR, his GPS coordinates, his money for the trip, etc. etc.

Btw, his blog was created back in 2012 as this isn't a recent thing.



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[twotimer]

Apparently it's now the "official" trailhead, though the permit offices don't always communicate this to the residents!



Now that's interesting. The usual trailhead to West was from Round Rock. The last big backpack I did there, we decided to walk around the southern end of Cummings Mesa instead of climbing it. We dropped into Aztec, walked up canyon a ways and camped. The next day it took us ALL DAY LONG to get over and into West. That's when we stopped by that big pothole that we had discussed earlier...the one with the Navajo name.

At one point on that hike, I reckon we were about 3 hours of hiking away from that house in Jayi. From that house to West is probably a good 6 hours.

My last two times at Round Rock the guy that lives about a mile down the road from the trailhead came up on his ATV asking for a "donation". The first time he was a bit vague about it...I offered him a cup of coffee.

"No man, I don't want no coffee"

After he left, my girlfriend said to me "Byron, he wanted money"

"Oh!"...it totally went over my head.

The next time, about four years later and the same guy, he wasn't vague about it at all. He talked about "Fires, vandalism and other troubles" up there on Black Mesa. I fished out a 50 dollar bill for him to "watch" my truck while we were away. I figured that would be better than coming back a week later and finding the windows of my truck busted out.

I wonder if there is an "official" parking spot for the "official" trailhead at Jayi?

I'd love to go with you to West next month but I'm doing a big mountain biking extravaganza in Moab shortly and I have work to complete in June/July. Maybe early October if you don't go next month? I've got a friend coming from England then and he wants to tour Cathedral Valley and hit High Spur. I could probably talk him into a trip to West. I backpacked with him up in the Sawtooths last summer...he's in good shape. Fun guy, too.

All this talk of West has me all jacked up for another visit.

[Iceaxe]

FWIW - if I spent a large amount of time and effort compiling massive amounts of detailed, complete and accurate beta I'd also place it on a website where I had control of the information.... oh wait.... I already do that.... never mind...

[emoji106]

[rockgremlin]

Hey Bob - howcome you wouldn't publish my funny boy scout comment on your blogspot? :haha: