Outdoor Retailer Show Boycott in Utah

[accadacca]

What are your thoughts? Lots of drama on this issue...

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170215/1762e9d702a4f7f6d31ef6846aa022cb.jpg

SALT LAKE CITY — A coalition of major outdoor companies on Tuesday ramped up a threat to get a lucrative outdoor trade show to leave Utah unless the governor and elected officials back away from policies they say threaten public lands.

Leaders of Black Diamond Equipment, Osprey Packs and 28 other outdoor companies sent a letter to Gov. Gary Herbert that says Utah leaders are threatening the outdoor industry by pushing back against federal land control and management.

"We see all of these actions as an existential threat to the vibrancy of Utah and America's outdoor industry, as well as Utah's high quality of life," the letter said.

The letter comes two days before Herbert is expected to meet with outdoor retailers to try to smooth the discord.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=43186867&nid=148&title=retailers-ramp-up-threat-for-big-outdoors-show-to-leave-utah

[rockgremlin]

Herbert better get his knee pads and put on his best lipstick. These guys drop millions of $$$ into Utah's economy.


It's bad enough that he made me have to pay sales tax on all my Amazon purchases. He better not F this up too.

[accadacca]

These clowns threaten to leave every year.

There is a much bigger list of companies supporting the show.

[Iceaxe]

I hate Herbert as governor. I'd like to kick Huntsmen right in the balls for sticking us with this asshat. But to the retailer show I say don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. I'm getting extremely tired of all the whining and crying from the left whenever they don't get a participation trophy.

[Sombeech]

Threatening to leave because Utah doesn't like how Bears Ears Monument was designated without Utah's input? THIS is what the retailers are upset about? What in the actual F$#@ is wrong with these people

[Brian in SLC]

Threatening to leave because Utah doesn't like how Bears Ears Monument was designated without Utah's input? THIS is what the retailers are upset about? What in the actual F$#@ is wrong with these people

Not Utah...I think most of Utah supports the monument.

Its that the Utah congressional delegation, the legislature and the governor have signed some proclamation or some such urging Trump to get rid of the monument.

This monument had a huge amount of input from both Utards and folks familiar with the area.

You can read what the retailers are upset about (Patagonia, etc).

I think the outdoor industry creates jobs in Utah, adds money with regard to taxes, the OR show generates around 40 million for Salt Lake, etc. So, they have "some" pull. But, with the economy doing well in other sectors...might be a drop in the bucket. Ski industry, last year was a bad year, still a 10-15 percent increase. Zion National Park? Another record year with 4 million visitors. Outdoor recreation and tourism are huge for the state of Utah when it comes to money. But, the outdoor industry itself? A bit harder to parse. Who's their lobbyist and how many politicians are in their pocket? They aren't organized like oil and gas...or have that kind of cash. But, they could be.

I guess I'd ask, what the F&*#&^ is wrong with people who don't want the monument? Who don't want public land and access to public land.

I'm not sure what the OR folks gain by leaving the state. My thought is that they loose some of their ability to negotiate public land and environmental issues. I've seen Metcalf and Herbert walking the show together. They surely don't see eye-to-eye. But, at least there is a dialog. If you aren't here, then, there isn't much of an opportunity for dialog.

Anyhoo...

Have you read the executive order? An immense amount of time and work with input from a huge number of people over many years went into it.

Bishop's PLI was a non starter...

Ass clowns, really? There's a ton of people that live and work here in the industry, and, a ton more that visit routinely.

Its that kind of disrespect that gets tiresome. Hard to even have a conversation about it.

[reverse_dyno]

The outdoor industry is concerned that Utah will sell off ALL public lands in the state if they get a hold of them. Jason Chaffetz already proposed selling 3 million acres of public land. That same group has a bill out to allow drilling in National Parks. It is time to face reality, Republicans hate Nature and want to sell all our public lands.

[Brian in SLC]

The outdoor industry is concerned that Utah will sell off ALL public lands in the state if they get a hold of them. Jason Chaffetz already proposed selling 3 million acres of public land. That same group has a bill out to allow drilling in National Parks. It is time to face reality, Republicans hate Nature and want to sell all our public lands.

Beholden to their benefactors and less to their constituents...

Although, one might wonder who their constituents really are.

Given the politics from the "leaders" of this website, it makes me wonder if they should rename it to, "Bogley, the anti-outdoor community".

Funny, when you consider the content of the site. Excepting these political threads of course.

I've always been a multiple use of public land kinda guy. Given the sale of some of the state SITLA lands, and resulting gates, and the late night removal of public stream access, folks are still on board with state control of federal land? Yikes.

Its interesting to consider the Utah politicians holding sway over this public land stuff. Are ANY of them outdoorsy, at all? Not really. And, most of them aren't even from Utah.

Hunters, fishermen, birders, ATV'ers, mtn bikers, dirt bikers, climbers, skiers, hikers...we should all be in this together. Its too bad we aren't.

Chatted with an apparent hunter at the Chaffetz rally (but, not one of those bussed in out-of-state paid agitators...ha ha) who was sporting a sign, "Hunters for public land". Wearing camo. We had more in common than most. And we both knew it.

Yeah, I like the sound of it..."Bogley, the anti public land community". The rest of us are ass clowns apparently.

[Sombeech]

Ah, I remember the protest signs with the oil rig drilling right through Delicate Arch, and the oil well spraying black crude all over the Zion Lodge.

If I believed the Liberal propaganda that Bryce Canyon was going to have a natural gas fracking rig operating at the Sunset Point trail head, I'd be furious too.

Otherwise, we can just label conservatives as racist litterbugs and hope they surrender because of name calling.

[Scott P]

I'm getting extremely tired of all the whining and crying from the left whenever they don't get a participation trophy.

Isn't it some on the right are whining about the monument or anything else Obama did for the last 8 years? I think you are too selective with the participation trophies.


If I believed the Liberal propaganda that Bryce Canyon was going to have a natural gas fracking rig operating at the Sunset Point trail head, I'd be furious too.

Even though there wasn't always 100% agreement among the parties when it comes to public lands, there used to be bi-partisan support for public lands. More recently however, the Republicans have made getting rid of public lands part of their platform, as well as getting rid of all wilderness. This is not liberal propaganda; it's on their own websites:

http://www.republicanviews.org/republican-views-on-the-environment/

Exact cut and paste, with some parts bolded:

They also believe that the large government land holdings in the west may be better used for ranching, mining, or forestry through private ownership. Republicans would also like to see all lands managed by the U.S. Forest Service available for harvesting, as timber is both a renewable resource and a source that can provide America with jobs.

Notice that it says all lands current managed by the Forest Service (including wilderness), not just "many lands", or "more of the land". The word all is pretty clear.

Don't forget the below either (which was pulled after outcry). This isn't liberal propaganda. It's right from the congress' own website:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85763&d=1485535613


Shane was right on the other thread "Get ready for some changes". On this we can agree, but as for me, I fear the changes for our public lands. I don't blame the retailers for being worried.

As long as the Republicans favor getting rid of public lands as part of their platform, I won't vote for them (even though (I used to vote 100% Republican). I know, "Don't let the door hit my a** on the way out". Duly noted.

[Iceaxe]

Isn't it some on the right are whining about the monument, even though most Utahns support it? I think you are too selective with the participation trophies.


The majority of Utah residents oppose the Bears Ears, not sure where you are hearing otherwise. I mean other then listening to fake news where the left wishes most Utahn's were in favor. One of my favorite tactics of the left, say something enough and hope it comes true.

More than half (52 percent) of Utah registered voters oppose the monument designation compared with 34 percent in support. That's 18 points, which is huuuuge in poll terms. This is current as of January 31, 2017.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4840590-155/poll-utahns-divided-over-bears-ears


Q: Do you approve or disapprove of the designation of the Bears Ears National Monument in southeastern Utah?

Strongly disapprove 39%
Some what disapprove 13%
Some what approve 12%
Strongly approve 22%
Don't know 15%

Dan Jones & Associates surveyed 605 registered Utah voters from Jan. 9-16. The poll has a margin of error of +/- 3.98 percentage points.

[Scott P]

Same newspaper:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4224034-155/poll-most-utahns-favor-a-bears

Fine; let's just call it all fake news. To be honest, I don't even support the monument, at least not at this time. I don't see it funded nor supported, but only see it to be neglected. A neglected and unfunded monument doesn't do any good, at least in my opinion.

l'll even edit my post just to make sure it doesn't contain any information that might be incorrect.

Monument or not, support or not, fake news or not, accurate news or not; none of this changes the fact that the GOP has made getting rid of public lands and getting rid of wilderness as part of their platform. That is not fake news; it comes directly from their own mouths and websites.

[Brian in SLC]

The majority of Utah residents oppose the Bears Ears, not sure where you are hearing otherwise. I mean other then listening to fake news where the left wishes most Utahn's were in favor. One of my favorite tactics of the left, say something enough and hope it comes true.

More than half (52 percent) of Utah registered voters oppose the monument designation compared with 34 percent in support. That's 18 points, which is huuuuge in poll terms. This is current as of January 31, 2017.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4840590-155/poll-utahns-divided-over-bears-ears


Q: Do you approve or disapprove of the designation of the Bears Ears National Monument in southeastern Utah?

Strongly disapprove 39%
Some what disapprove 13%
Some what approve 12%
Strongly approve 22%
Don't know 15%

Dan Jones & Associates surveyed 605 registered Utah voters from Jan. 9-16. The poll has a margin of error of +/- 3.98 percentage points.

Wow...nearly 315 registered voters in Utah oppose the Bear's Ears....its a mandate from the PEOPLE!

There were more people than that at the Chaffetz rally carrying signs in support....of course, they were bussed in from out-of-state and paid to be there, according to you.

85907

You're all about fake news, Shane. As long as supports whatever agenda you've dug your heels into.

[Iceaxe]

Wrap that fish in any wrapper you like.... but bottomline is you have missed badly on almost every prediction you have made in the past year, reading the first few pages of the presidential election thread will easily remind you of all your misses in case you have forgotten... so all that tells me is you are out of touch with with the general population.... same as you are out of touch with the fact that the majority of Utah is opposed to the Bears Ears MN.

And since we're keeping score you might want to also notice my predictions are averaging about 95% correct. Yup I've missed a couple, which are about the same 5% you managed to get right.

[emoji631]

[uintafly]

Beholden to their benefactors and less to their constituents...

Although, one might wonder who their constituents really are.

Given the politics from the "leaders" of this website, it makes me wonder if they should rename it to, "Bogley, the anti-outdoor community".

Funny, when you consider the content of the site. Excepting these political threads of course.

I've always been a multiple use of public land kinda guy. Given the sale of some of the state SITLA lands, and resulting gates, and the late night removal of public stream access, folks are still on board with state control of federal land? Yikes.

Its interesting to consider the Utah politicians holding sway over this public land stuff. Are ANY of them outdoorsy, at all? Not really. And, most of them aren't even from Utah.

Hunters, fishermen, birders, ATV'ers, mtn bikers, dirt bikers, climbers, skiers, hikers...we should all be in this together. Its too bad we aren't.

Chatted with an apparent hunter at the Chaffetz rally (but, not one of those bussed in out-of-state paid agitators...ha ha) who was sporting a sign, "Hunters for public land". Wearing camo. We had more in common than most. And we both knew it.

Yeah, I like the sound of it..."Bogley, the anti public land community". The rest of us are ass clowns apparently.

This site does have a strange anti-environment stance considering how we all like to recreate. I have spent enough time back east, where there is little public land, to not want that here. The easy and cheap access we have to a million different outdoor activities is what makes the west what it is. Are we ever going to see a drilling rig on Delicate Arch? No, but we very well may see one on the Kolob Terrace road soon. But I am personally more worried about locked gates and "No Trespassing" signs anyway.

[jman]

This site does have a strange anti-environment stance considering how we all like to recreate. I have spent enough time back east, where there is little public land, to not want that here. The easy and cheap access we have to a million different outdoor activities is what makes the west what it is. Are we ever going to see a drilling rig on Delicate Arch? No, but we very well may see one on the Kolob Terrace road soon. But I am personally more worried about locked gates and "No Trespassing" signs anyway.

Once it is sold to into private hands - that land is gone forever. Period. I would deal with crowds and trash on public land many times over rather than seeing a parcel of land in private hands.

And that land will never become public again. And besides it's not like we are getting more and more land each day. And now, just like you were saying, now you can get a trespassing ticket in the desert or mountains. That's messed up.






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[tallsteve]

Just out of curiosity, did creating the Grand Staircase National Monument increase the amount of visitors? By a little bit or by a lot? If by a lot, how has the increased number of visitors affected the land (serious question, because I don't know)? Nobody I associate with on a regular basis had ever even heard of the Bears Ear area. Now, they all want to go there. Is that a good thing?

[Scott P]

Just out of curiosity, did creating the Grand Staircase National Monument increase the amount of visitors? By a little bit or by a lot? If by a lot, how has the increased number of visitors affected the land (serious question, because I don't know)? Nobody I associate with on a regular basis had ever even heard of the Bears Ear area. Now, they all want to go there. Is that a good thing?

Visitation to the area around the Grand Staircase did increase (by quite a bit actually). It didn't increase however, as much as several non-monument areas such as the San Rafael Swell, Robbers Roost, North Wash, and the BLM areas around Moab. The increase in visitors to those areas has been staggering.

So, it is very likely that the monument designation in the Grand Staircase did increase visitors, but guidebooks and the internet have had much more of an effect and the increase in visitors. The thing about the Grand Staircase Monument is that you have to get off the beaten track to really see the good stuff. I have heard several people say that they have been to Grand Staircase and were disappointed. I can only assume that most of them didn't take time to leave the beaten track and to see what the place really offers.

[jman]

Just out of curiosity, did creating the Grand Staircase National Monument increase the amount of visitors? By a little bit or by a lot? If by a lot, how has the increased number of visitors affected the land (serious question, because I don't know)? Nobody I associate with on a regular basis had ever even heard of the Bears Ear area. Now, they all want to go there. Is that a good thing?

I emailed the BLM down there exactly this question almost two months ago and have not heard back. I'm sure they have been bombarded with other similar questions. And escalate has over 21 years now of being a National Monument so they should have some good statistics by now.


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[Brian in SLC]

And since we're keeping score you might want to also notice my predictions are averaging about 95% correct. Yup I've missed a couple, which are about the same 5% you managed to get right

Only modestly saving grace for anyone's predictions (excepting yours) was that Hillary won by the largest margin of any president not elected...(that sounds funny even saying it).

Funny...not even the conservative news folks got even close. But our own amazing Kreskin pulled a rabbit out of his hat. Bravo. Now...

If you could...let us know when the stock market is going to crash...that'd be super helpful.

(My 401k average return for the last 2 years is 15%...yeah...to a large extent, its about the economy stupid).

I could probably survive another "adjustment". But...

As far as OR in Utah...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGIFublvDes

[Scott P]

This site does have a strange anti-environment stance considering how we all like to recreate.

I agree. With the retention of public lands issue, we should be on the same side here. It seems that one ones on Bogley that aren't are ignoring the rhetoric for their own politicians mouths and websites or just think that losing any access isn't a real threat


I have spent enough time back east, where there is little public land, to not want that here.

I agree. The solution seems simple enough. Those who like public lands can live from the Rockies and westward and those who don't like public land can live east of the Rockies, then we can drop this bull****. It seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[Iceaxe]

This site does have a strange anti-environment stance considering how we all like to recreate. I have spent enough time back east, where there is little public land, to not want that here. The easy and cheap access we have to a million different outdoor activities is what makes the west what it is. Are we ever going to see a drilling rig on Delicate Arch? No, but we very well may see one on the Kolob Terrace road soon. But I am personally more worried about locked gates and "No Trespassing" signs anyway.
I don't know of anyone on this site that believes public land should be sold off into private hands. That rethoric is used by the left to attack those who would like to see the state have more say in how the land is used.

Something else to consider is while this is an outdoor forum it has a much broader reach then most outdoor forums in that we try to be more inclusive than most forums and also welcome the off road, mountain bike, fishing and hunting crowd among others. This forum does have a great cross section of those who use the Utah backcountry. Most outdoor forums are very sport specific and narrowly focused.

My personal experience is that often times a drilling rig is preferred over the Subaru crowd because after a couple years the drilling rig goes home and things return pretty much to normal, but once the Subaru crowd shows up things are never the same.

[Iceaxe]

Funny...not even the conservative news folks got even close. But our own amazing Kreskin pulled a rabbit out of his hat. Bravo. Now...

If you could...let us know when the stock market is going to crash...that'd be super helpful.

Actually a good number of people on Fox among others correctly predicted the election, Sean Hannity being one. Really a lot of people outside the liberal mainstream correctly predicted the election. The biggest problem with the left is they were living in a echo chamber.

As for the stock market pull your money out November 1, 2024. Trust me on this one.

[Scott P]

I don't know of anyone on this site that believes public land should be sold off into private hands. That rethoric is used by the left to attack those who would like to see the state have more say in how the land is used.

Shane, the rhetoric is on the GOP websites. It's right here (among other places):

http://www.republicanviews.org/republican-views-on-the-environment/

Exact cut and paste, with some parts bolded:

They also believe that the large government land holdings in the west may be better used for ranching, mining, or forestry through private ownership. Republicans would also like to see all lands managed by the U.S. Forest Service available for harvesting, as timber is both a renewable resource and a source that can provide America with jobs.

Notice that it says all lands current managed by the Forest Service (including wilderness), not just "many lands", or "more of the land". The word all is pretty clear.


http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85763&d=1485535613

You (and Sombeech) seem to be ignoring this and just calling it "left rhetoric". The above is not from the left.

As far as State lands go, Utah has done an OK job of keeping state lands open to the public. Where I live though, there is quite a bit of state land. Most of it is closed to the public and the rest that does have seasonal public access is closed to the public for most of the year.

Even if Utah doesn't support selling off all the public lands if they were given to the State, I don't believe that they wouldn't sell of any of them.

[Brian in SLC]

Actually a good number of people on Fox among others correctly predicted the election, Sean Hannity being one. Really a lot of people outside the liberal mainstream correctly predicted the election. The biggest problem with the left is they were living in a echo chamber.

Nope. Fox news totally got it wrong. I printed out their predictions on election day. They were as far off as any of the blamestream liberal media.

I couldn't find a single media outlet on the conservative side that predicted a Trump win. I printed out 12 to follow during election night, trying to get a spread of liberal and conservative.

Hannity totally blew 2012. So did Rove. And Limbaugh. Etc.

Funny...Hannity predicted Trumps win would be a landslide based on Facebook "likes". Wasn't exactly a landslide, and, he was soundly beat in the popular vote. Hannity also predicted that Ryan wouldn't be speaker of the house past January, but...

A "good number" of people on Fox? Not really. Rove? Nope. Name one person from Fox besides Hannity.

What's funny is that Michael Moore also predicted a Trump win...the Rust Belt Brexit.

I watched the returns and channel surfed through the Fox coverage. No one thought Trump was going to win especially before 10pm. From the Fox coverage:

“We all thought it was going to be a fairly early night,” MacCallum said, citing the polls that consistently gave the edge to Clinton. But around 10 p.m. ET, when the raw vote totals confirmed razor-tight races in key battleground states like Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida, the atmosphere changed for MacCallum and those manning Fox News’ Decision Desk. As much as they were under pressure to report new numbers and predictions for states, MacCallum and her team had to hit the brakes to make sense of it all.
“It got very quiet very quickly,” MacCallum said. “Everybody was just staring at their computers. Everybody slowed down a beat and we all said, ‘Something’s turning here.’ ”

[Iceaxe]

Shane, the rhetoric is on the GOP websites. It's right here (among other places):

http://www.republicanviews.org/republican-views-on-the-environment/



I said nothing about the GOP with regards to private land. I said members of this forum. You are mixing the two. Both parties have things I really like and things I strongly oppose. Unfortunately the two party system really forces us to pick the lesser of two evils with regards to our personal values.

[Sombeech]

Could you guys help me understand why I am anti environment? I mean, name calling is fun and all, but I'd like to know why you think I am against the environment and that I hate nature. It's not some oddball accusation either, it's been repeated in this thread by multiple people.

If you can't answer this question without an internet search and a long ass boring article, don't bother. It shouldn't be difficult to explain your accusation of me. Why do I hate the outdoors environment?

[Brian in SLC]

Could you guys help me understand why I am anti environment? I mean, name calling is fun and all, but I'd like to know why you think I am against the environment and that I hate nature. It's not some oddball accusation either, it's been repeated in this thread by multiple people.

If you can't answer this question without an internet search and a long ass boring article, don't bother. It shouldn't be difficult to explain your accusation of me. Why do I hate the outdoors environment?

Because of your rhetoric. You either play the poor conservative victim card or rail against the "liberals". You seem to have a stance very against people who are trying to protect your public land and access to same. And you couch your rhetoric in terms that are "anti". Very "us versus them".

That's what I don't get...we (all of us) have a LOT more in common with regard to public land that we don't. Its politics that drive a wedge between us. I could totally get behind a conservative republican politician who supported federal land here in Utah for public use. But...there aren't any. In fact, they lobby against it.

"Conservative" politics sure doesn't have anything to do with "conservation". What's being "conserved"? Not public access.

You hate the outdoors because you hate the people trying to preserve your access to it and trying to preserve your quality of life with regard to it.

Hard to get my head around.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94bdMSCdw20

[Sombeech]

You hate the outdoors because you hate the people trying to preserve your access to it and trying to preserve your quality of life with regard to it.

Do I?

[uintafly]

Could you guys help me understand why I am anti environment? I mean, name calling is fun and all, but I'd like to know why you think I am against the environment and that I hate nature. It's not some oddball accusation either, it's been repeated in this thread by multiple people.

If you can't answer this question without an internet search and a long ass boring article, don't bother. It shouldn't be difficult to explain your accusation of me. Why do I hate the outdoors environment?

Hard to say really. Maybe you weren't exposed to nature much as a child???? :haha:

But in all seriousness what Brian said.

[Scott P]

I said nothing about the GOP with regards to private land.

That's the problem. You seem to be ignoring the issue and only bringing up the left. We should be on the same side on this topic.


Both parties have things I really like and things I strongly oppose.

I agree and feel the same way, even if we disagree on several issues. For the record, I never thought that you always sided 100% with one political party or another. I have heard you side with both political parties. Correct me if wrong, but you seem to side with the left on most social issues and with the right on fiscal issues and gun control.

That said though, conservatives (I'm not referring to anyone specifically, but in general) who don't fully side the GOP stance on public lands or the environment (even if it is just a minority of the issues disagreed on) need to start speaking out more, rather than just siding with their party 100% of the time.


Unfortunately the two party system really forces us to pick the lesser of two evils with regards to our personal values.

I agree with you 100%. I hate the two party issues and only getting to choose between on extremist on either side in the elections.

[Scott P]

Why do I hate the outdoors environment?

Excellent question 'Beech. Do tell us. Why you you hate the outdoors environment? :haha:

[Sombeech]

It looks like some of you guys are getting really angry, I would suggest stepping away from the keyboard for a bit, take a walk, come back and have a conversation without calling anybody names. It would help if you don't jump to conclusions, by assuming I agree with the GOP, and also assuming that I hate liberals, or that I actually hate anybody at all. I'm asking objective questions in response to accusations, and that pisses some people off.

Try some breathing exercises.

Maybe you're all correct, I don't get outdoors much. Only twice a week.

[Iceaxe]

I agree and feel the same way, even if we disagree on several issues. For the record, I never thought that you always sided 100% with one political party or another. I have heard you side with both political parties. Correct me if wrong, but you seem to side with the left on most social issues and with the right on fiscal issues and gun control.

You have my political view's figured out. I consider myself slightly right of center. I have always believed Democrats understand people and Republicans understand money. As for gun control I consider myself a Constitutionalist, which means I believe your rights are guaranteed in the Constitution and Bill of Rights as written. That means the complete Constitution and Bill of Rights, not just the parts you agree with, which is something I find odd about the left.

If Democrats would stop their attack on the 2nd amendment they would be way ahead, while Republicans need to stay out of our bedrooms and let women decide health issues for themselves.

FWIW - I really feel that Democrats lost the last election on gun control. "PA, WI, MI" are all big hunting and firearm states. Yes, there were lots of other issues, but the 2nd Amendment cost Hillary the election. The interesting part is Bill warned Hillary to steer clear of the gun control issue as it cost Bill both houses during his 2nd term. That was the first time Republican's had controlled both houses since the 1950's.

[Scott P]

It looks like some of you guys are getting really angry, I would suggest stepping away from the keyboard for a bit, take a walk, come back and have a conversation without calling anybody names.

For the record, I was just messing with you with my last comment. I don't think that you hate the outdoor environment.

As far as calling names, when you look through the threads (especially the presidential one), it is the Trump supporters who have done most of the name calling (by a huge margin).

---------------------------------------------------------

(Lest anyone misunderstand, the below is all written with a very friendly tone):

Anyway, what I really want to know is where Accadacca stands in all this? I actually don't know where he stands on most of these issues, but he is the one that starts these threads. After starting them though, he participates very little in them. He just kicks back and watches the carnage. I know he is the (partial?) owner of this website, but he is also by far and away the most successful troll that I know of.

It is actually Accadacca who should be on the very top of this pyramid. Well played sir; well played.

http://i.imgur.com/0EetHAM.png

[Sombeech]

Do either of you even know my opinion of the Public Land issue? I was making a point of how stupid it is for the retailers to threaten boycott if the GOP didn't change their tactics. Whether the Utah politicians are right or wrong, it is still a stupid reason to boycott the Outdoor Retailer show.

If you want to get more people involved in the Outdoors, and to recruit folks to your side of things, then this is actually the most important time to attend the Outdoor Retailer show, so you can make more contacts, get them more involved with the outdoors / environment, and then those masses of people can help sway the politics your way.

Hence, boycotting the show because you don't like the local politics, is absolutely asinine and childish. It's a missed opportunity. If they want to have a chance of success, they need to put on their big boy pants, dry their Election Night tears, and try to increase the local interest in outdoor recreation by showing the new and exciting outdoor gear they have to offer.

And yet, do you know my opinion of the Public Lands policies? Nah, but jumping to conclusions can be fun. Just keep up the name calling and accusations because that will make me agree with your opinion.


@Scott P (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=213) I know you're joking, we're good, I don't take these things that hard. Just a note about the President Election thread though, when the Hillary voters started explaining how they don't feel safe anymore, that they were scared and feared for their safety, I thought it was "Opposite Day" when it was the Trump voters who had to protect themselves from physical violence. We were all led to believe that all of the women were going to get fired from their jobs so they could stay home and cook dinner, and the Oil Refineries were going to start dumping their hazardous waste into the street gutters like Cousin Eddy. The media coverage on these items, showing how the country has just gone back in time 50 years, has been very sparse. Maybe it's all been on Cable networks that aren't in my home package.

Anyways, I'm not counter attacking anybody, I just need it to be known that nobody knows where I stand on this, but it is still a childish decision to boycott an opportunity to increase their potential customer base, and also political opinion persuasion.

I might have to increase my outdoor recreation schedule from 2 days a week to 3, as it sounds like I am out of touch with the outdoors.

[rockgremlin]

The term "hate" is a very strong term, laden with implications. In my mind, to accuse someone of hating something you need to bring a mountain of very compelling evidence. In Beech's case, I have not seen hard, damning evidence that would persuade me to think that he hates the outdoors. Pretty close to the opposite in my eyes. He's partial owner of this site, gets out and mountain bikes a ton, hikes a lot, flies his drone around, etc, etc.

So we're gonna crucify him because of some flippant comments he may have made on this site? Where do these personal attacks come from?

In the real world, almost everybody's opinions are varying shades of grey. Why the need to polarize everyone by claiming they have to either love or hate?

[Scott P]

I just need it to be known that nobody knows where I stand on this

You could tell us. Seriously, where do you stand on the issues concerning the GOP and public lands?


it is still a childish decision to boycott an opportunity to increase their potential customer base, and also political opinion persuasion.

Wasn't it Shane who once said that the Outdoor Retailer Show and threat of boycott has done more for environmental causes than any environmental group? They did get an audience with the governor. How sad that they couldn't get one before the threat of boycott.

Concerning the retail show, a lot of people who advocate protection of public lands would like to see the show follow through and just leave Utah. If they did though, they would lose any leverage that they have in the State. I find it extremely sad that money always talks and all other issues be damned.

While the Retail Show does bring millions to the State of Utah, it won't compete with other higher dollar industries.


Just a note about the President Election thread though, when the Hillary voters started explaining how...

Both sides (sadly) use the same fear tactics. Remember when Obama was going to be the anti Christ who will take away everyone's guns? How Obama was a Muslim who will force Sharia Law on the United States; and whom would destroy America? Or how about Obama was going to instigate martial law so he could overturn the Constitution? I'm sure similar things would have been said if Hillary were elected. There is no difference.

I was speaking of Bogley specifically. There was definitely a lot more name calling coming from the Trump supporters than the other side. One only needs to look through the threads.

I agree with you Sombeech; the name calling should stop. I don't think that it will though.

Still, you can't say that it is only one side doing it, especially on Bogley. If you really want to we can separate the names called on Bogley on a spread sheet and keep score from the Trump supporters and non-Trump supporters. I am already willing to bet which ones have done the most name-calling.

Anyway, I put "libtard" in the Bogley search. Here are a few results that came up:

Get back to your side of the pond. Didn't we whoop your ass once already? That being stated, I find it humorous how many Non-US Citizens feel inclined to chime in on our system, regardless of how screwed up it is.

#Brexit, anyone? I don't recall any US folks chiming in for that, so STFU!

----------------

I am hopeful this ends it for all these libtard snow flakes.

---------------

Effing libtards.

-------------

That's what I mean...fantasy. Libtards is an excellent adjective.

Using the word "liberal" in the search box for the presidential thread:

If it makes the libs feel better that Trump didn't fill the Mall, then let them have it. Suck on that pacifier and any other little victory they want to claim...

-------------

Perhaps the lightbulb moment will occur with the liberals when they finally punch themselves out?

-------------

What's the end goal of all of the liberal whiners?

------------

Of course after the liberal side all dies off in hunting accidents in West Texas

------------

I'm so happy to see that we're not outnumbered by the dried up hags or the look in the mirror and see a problem crowd.

-------------

Of course, that's all peanuts compared to the results you get when you put "environmentalist" into the Bogley search box.:eek2:

[twotimer]

In my personal opinion, liberals are hypersensitive sissies. Just my personal opinion, of course.

[rockgremlin]

I Bogley searched "Rockgremlin" and it brought up the following result:


85910



Then I Bogley searched "AccaDacca" and the following popped up:


85913


...I have so many questions...

[Iceaxe]

I Bogley searched .....

Try Icevader.......

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=49674

[Scott P]

Try Icevader.......

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=49674

A helmet that protects the entire head; Tom Jones would be proud!

[rockgremlin]

Other prominent forum members through the eyes of Google:


Iceaxe...
85920


Brian in SLC...
85918


Ratagonia...
85916


Sombeech...
85917




And then I googled Governor Herbert...
85921


Seems appropriate. The only thing that motivates Herb is money. That said, he might attempt to kowtow to the OR show, and if he does I really hope the OR goes to Colorado anyway just to spite him. It would be good for him to watch a recurring 45 Million dollar paycheck walk out the door as a result of his uncompromising greed. In other words, I'm not unhappy with the OR show -- I'm unhappy with Herb.

Either way, the OR is under contract to remain in Utah until August of 2018, so they're not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Scott P]

In my personal opinion, liberals are hypersensitive sissies. Just my personal opinion, of course.

The liberals told me to present you with this trophy for participating in this thread.


https://lynnhpryor.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/partipant3.jpg

[BruteForce]

Patagonia and the rest of the snowflakes can ETADIK..

[Sombeech]

When did the definition of "Tolerance" change to "Fighting those with a different opinion"?

[twotimer]

The liberals told me to present you with this trophy for participating in this thread.
Oh...just wanted to add another hateful quote to the list you're keeping track of. My participation in this thread has been zilch because I'm a bit ignorant of what the beef really is and the boys in Utah seem to be all over it. But once the "hate" finger started getting pointed and things that I had said got rolled into the conversation, I figured I'd better throw down something to uphold my reputation.

BTW, Scott...my name is Byron. Show some backbone and say it next time.

[Scott P]

but once the "hate" finger started getting pointed and things that I had said got rolled into the conversation

Jeez Byron. To be honest, I didn't even pay attention to who said what of the comments I cut and pasted. I just searched libtard or liberal and those comments came up. I would have to do another search to see who said what.

There was no mal intent.

My response was to 'Beech was saying that it was the conservatives being the subject of name-calling:

Otherwise, we can just label conservatives as racist litterbugs and hope they surrender because of name calling.


Patagonia and the rest of the snowflakes can ETADIK..

What does that even mean?

[jman]

I find it extremely sad that money always talks and all other issues be damned.


I read this earlier in the day and can't get over this point. Many members in my family and handfuls of my friends would classify themselves as "conservatives" and it's an echo chamber from everything to money to moral issues to governance.

But you are right, money is always the root of every issue. (Drugs, Marijuna, Alcohol, Gambling, Education, Abortion, Jails/Prisons relocations or expansions, Pipelines, Land Development, and many more).

Here is an example of what I heard today: we were talking about suicide at work and what if you saw a guy on a edge of the building deciding whether or not to jump. My conservative coworkers mostly agreed that they WOULD encourage him to jump. They cite - it's one less person in the world, one less person to feed, one less person to be a drain on someone's family and friends. This was an actual conservation!! They didn't value a persons worth (or soul) but compared his life to $$.

Now I would consider myself as a moderate as I hate the polarization of the two-party system and am telling them that I would be encouraging him NOT to jump as I believe every live is worth it. There are exceptions, of course, as with everything in life, but who are these people to encourage to others to end their lives??

I then turn it around on them and play the Devil's Advocate (which makes it very personal). "Hey Rob, if your daughter or son or dad who has cancer was on that edge, I would be yelling "jump! You are wasting your families money, etc.". That shuts them up real quick when you make it personal like that. To be clear, I would NOT do that in reality. Sometimes, these conservatives need to recognize that money isnt the lowest denonininator and that's how we should base every issue on. $$$

There are more important things in life than the constant pursuit of money. And back to your point, unfortunately for the State of the Utah, the OR show is leaving (confirmed about 20mins ago) after their contract is up primarily because of money.

I think most people FOR the OR show are not the excessive tree-huggers that we imagine in our heads being run over by bulldozers but simply outdoor-minded people wanting access to our federal lands.

And sure, the state could probably manage it better than the Feds in a lot of circumstances. But the State has a knack for selling it to private hands (which we will never get back) or leasing it for oil and coal development which scars that area.

If you look at Vernal and go a little south-east in Google Earth, look at the drilling derricks scattered all over! It literally is jaw-dropping in regard to the amount up there.

I think a lot of environmental people don't want that eye-sore to be all over the Grand Staircase or Zion or Kanab or the Unitas...or Bears Ears.


And mark (or mock) my words, Utah will spruce up their tourism budget this year and hit it hard on TV with Utah ads all over this year to repair the PR image. And we will continue to see more conservation groups and protests than ever before because of this fall out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[uintafly]

Patagonia and the rest of the snowflakes can ETADIK..

Oh yeah? Well Herbert and friends can ETABAGOFDIKS, so there. :twisted:

[Scott P]

Dang, they really are leaving:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4952414-155/outdoor-retailer-convention-leaving-utah#undefined.gbpl

[rockgremlin]

Well good job Herb......Was it worth it?

[jman]

One thing that the articles didn't mention on either KSL or the Tribune is whether they are staying for the last 3 shows. The OR committee said they are moving "as soon as possible".



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scott P]

Colorado (including our governor) is trying to recruit the Outdoor Retailing Show.

85925

There is quite a difference on the attitude of public lands from the Colorado Governor vs the Utah Governor:

(Governor) Hickenlooper isn’t throwing snowballs at his friend Herbert. The moderate yet liberal-leaning Democrat Hickenlooper and the conservative Republican Herbert “agree on 80 percent of everything,” Hickenlooper said.

“But this is one place that we really don’t agree,” Hickenlooper said. “As much as I admire him, I think we need more public land, not less.”

Hickenlooper’s political legacy will include a bear-hug embrace of the recreation and outdoor industries. His Colorado Beautiful initiative (http://www.denverpost.com/2015/06/11/hickenlooper-unveils-intoxicating-vision-for-trails-and-green-spaces-in-colorado/) will inventory all of Colorado’s public lands, from municipal pocket parks to Forest Service wilderness and national parks, as a way to identify gaps and segments that are hindering public access. His $100 million plan to develop trails across the state (http://www.denverpost.com/2015/09/16/hickenlooper-promises-100m-to-make-colorado-the-best-state-for-biking/) aims to make Colorado the most bike-friendly state in the nation.

The recent passage of the bipartisan Outdoor Recreation Jobs and Economic Impact Act (http://www.denverpost.com/2016/11/29/outdoor-industry-gross-domestic-product/) — which will include the economic impact of the outdoor industry in the federal government’s annual accounting of gross domestic product — will “allow Colorado to make a really compelling case to the outdoor industry,” Hickenlooper said.

It’s the same case Hickenlooper made in 2010 to land the Snow Show, securing what remains as the largest convention booking in Denver’s history. The show lures more than 18,000 attendees a year who stir a $35 million annual economic impact.

“Part of the argument we made to SIA and the Outdoor Industry Association is that we are a better place to hold these kinds of conferences because we already have that crucial mass,” Hickenlooper said.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/01/30/outdoor-retailer-show-colorado/

[jman]

Fox13 News is saying that Diamond Expo (the owners) are trying to make 2017 the last year (which implies breaking the contract for 2018).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[twotimer]

As for the stock market pull your money out November 1, 2024. Trust me on this one.You're call on the election was impressive. Very impressive. So I have to ask...what's the deal on this date?

[rockgremlin]

Guys -- it's going to be okay. We have all of that Amazon sales tax revenue to make up for the $45 million dollar loss from losing the trade show...we're good. :roflol:

[Iceaxe]

You're call on the election was impressive. Very impressive. So I have to ask...what's the deal on this date?

The end of Trumps second term. And it's very rare for the same party to be victorious in 3 consecutive elections.

[Iceaxe]

I hate Herbert as governor. I'd like to kick Huntsmen right in the balls for sticking us with this asshat.

And my feelings still have not changed.

[Scott P]

And my feelings still have not changed.

Because of the retail show or for other reasons? Conceal carry? Gay rights? The Highway scandal? HB 477? Amazon sales tax? Just curious.

[Iceaxe]

All of the above and more. The Outdoor Retailers Show doesn't even make my top 50 reasons of why I dislike Herbert.

[accadacca]

Enjoying this thread...pass the popcorn.

For the record. I just like to start conversations that I think will resonate with the members on this forum. That's why we have this fine establishment called bogley. It's a place to talk about the outdoors and discuss many things that need to be talked about. We don't want tumbleweeds. It's healthy to hear different angles and not get too bothered by what others say on the internet.

I don't always participate after the thread has been started, but sometimes come back to stoke the fire if needed. I don't have strong opinions on most of it, but I enjoy reading the perspective of others to help form my opinion, which often changes as I hear from others.

[Scott P]

For the record. I just like to start conversations that I think will resonate with the members on this forum. That's why we have this fine establishment called bogley.

Don't be so modest.:haha: We all know that you are the best troll in the history of Bogley. :haha: Although I'm partially joking I mean this with admiration.

Accadacca with his phone posting on Bogley:

85926

[rockgremlin]

OK, let's take stock of what our wonderful Dickhead Governor has done for the people of Utah:

1. Repeatedly vetoes permitless conceal carry in Utah
2. Paid $13 Million in hush money to avoid being exposed for taking bribes from a local construction company.
3. Publicly decries gay marriage.
4. HB 477 - and all of the idiocy that goes with that.
5. Makes all the citizens in Utah who use Amazon pay taxes on all their purchases.
6. Chased the Outdoor Retailer Convention out of Utah.
7. Chased the Interbike Trade Show (largest bicycle trade show in No. America) out of Utah.
8. Declares pornography a "Public Health Crisis" --- really?!


So...what has he done that has really benefited Utahns? Cuz right now I can't see anything but a long list of f*** ups. And why exactly isn't there a strong movement to oust his incompetent ass?

[Sombeech]

Have you ever known somebody that makes a ridiculous demand, "or else"? I have, we all have. And then sometimes, to the shock of the demanding party, those demands are met, and they still end up leaving?

Yeah, I know people like that, we all do.

Is it possible they still would have left even if Utah politicians met their request? Definitely.

But hey, if somebody already has their mind made up, they might as well use the opportunity to throw a political jab on their way out, and try to convince us they really wanted to stay but their hand was forced, when they already decided to leave a long time ago.

For those of you who think these parties would never do something like this, that they couldn't even think of doing such a thing because their hearts are so warm fluffy and soft, than any other conversation on the matter would be very unproductive.

[Scott P]

Is it possible they still would have left even if Utah politicians met their request?

In this case, I don't think so. Salt Lake City is more centrally located to the West as any other major city. Hotels and convention costs are generally much cheaper in Salt Lake as well than they are in places like Seattle or Denver. Salt Lake City is actually closer to the mountains than say, Denver or Seattle. Salt Lake also has the reputation of being easy to get around in and traffic volumes are less than in many other major cities. Further, some of the biggest supporters of the Retailer Show, such as Black Diamond, are actually headquartered in Salt Lake. Even so, Black Diamond was one of the advocates for moving the Show outside of Utah. There were a lot of advantages to keeping the Show in Salt Lake. As far as locations go, Salt Lake was really hard to beat. It is actually a world known event too and the biggest show of its kind.

The Retailer Show has been in Utah for 20 years and has a positive relationship before 2012 when the Utah Transfer of Public Lands was passed. Since then, and because of other public land issues, the Show has been threatening to leave. They view Utah as being hostile to their business, but gave it five more years. This year they followed through with their threats. I think a lot of people didn't think that they would really do it.

[stefan]

Have you ever known somebody that makes a ridiculous demand, "or else"? I have, we all have. And then sometimes, to the shock of the demanding party, those demands are met, and they still end up leaving?

Yeah, I know people like that, we all do.

Is it possible they still would have left even if Utah politicians met their request? Definitely.

But hey, if somebody already has their mind made up, they might as well use the opportunity to throw a political jab on their way out, and try to convince us they really wanted to stay but their hand was forced, when they already decided to leave a long time ago.

For those of you who think these parties would never do something like this, that they couldn't even think of doing such a thing because their hearts are so warm fluffy and soft, than any other conversation on the matter would be very unproductive.

so this whole thing is not exactly new, 'beech. peter metcalf, former ceo of black diamond and critical member of the outdoor industry association has threatened to move the convention out of the state if utah didn't change its stance on public lands starting well over a decade ago (2003/2004).

[hank moon]

Bummer the show is leaving. Agree w/'Beech that leaving isn't the best idea. Too bad UT pols didn't wake up to the reality of the threat before it began to be carried out.


85929

[Sombeech]

so this whole thing is not exactly new, 'beech. peter metcalf, former ceo of black diamond and critical member of the outdoor industry association has threatened to move the convention out of the state if utah didn't change its stance on public lands starting well over a decade ago (2003/2004).
Exactly. So why do we get the idea that utah could do something right now that would make them stay?

They made up their minds long ago, and there is nothing that will change it. So they might as well throw some political jabs in on the way out.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[stefan]

Exactly. So why do we get the idea that utah could do something right now that would make them stay?

They made up their minds long ago, and there is nothing that will change it. So they might as well throw some political jabs in on the way out.



so you speak for them, now? how presumptuous

[Sombeech]

so you speak for them, now?
No I'm just incredibly perceptive.

I mean, it's not going as far as saying somebody "hates the outdoors" because of some assumptions about a policy, but oh well.

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[Scott P]

They made up their minds long ago, and there is nothing that will change it.

If they made up their mind long ago and nothing would change it, why didn't they leave long ago? Also, this year two of the biggest retailers boycotted the show and it was likely that more would follow.


I mean, it's not going as far as saying somebody "hates the outdoors" because of some assumptions about a policy, but oh well.

Jeez Beech, wasn't it you that once told me to quit being so sensitive on the forums? :ne_nau:

[middlefork]

An email from the organizers of OR
.

Our Goal is Not Just to Speak. Our Goal is to be Heard.

The last week has certainly been an interesting time as a show organizer and I am most thankful for the incredible team at Outdoor Retailer, our partner - the Outdoor Industry Association, rep associations, retailers and brands, in addition to the hundreds of emails offering support.

We respect that brands have to make decisions that reflect their values. However, in the last week, the heart-felt expressions of support for the show from exhibitors of all sizes have far outweighed those choosing not to participate. Iconic brands such as adidas Outdoor, Ibex, The Conservation Alliance, The North Face, REI and Wolverine Worldwide, among many others have not only reinforced their intent to come to SLC this summer, but also, will make their voices louder than ever before. (Please look at unity.outdoorretailer.com for specific expressions of support.)

We can all most easily agree that this is not a question of inaction. Rather, it is a matter of what action.

This is not a one-and-done issue. While Bears Ears National Monument status is a lightning rod, it is just the most currently visible example of what will be a long, hard series of fights the outdoor community needs to not only raise our voices about, but, even more importantly, about which we need to be heard.

Outdoor Retailer is the only gathering where the entire industry comes together to conduct commerce, share best practices and exchange ideas. There is no other event where the most respected iconic brands and retailers - large, medium and small in size - show up "en force."

But the boycott of Outdoor Retailer levies the most significant negative impact on those medium and small-sized companies that count on the show to conduct business. We have a unique, maybe even singular, opportunity to coalesce, organize, speak and lay plans to make a difference around public land awareness in such a way that it is not only heard but that it can make a positive difference.

Our goal is not just to speak. Our goal is to be heard.

Now is the time for action, not words. These are turbulent times with passions running high – a wonderful trait of the industry we serve. We share these passions. We hear you, are listening closely and taking action. Here is what we are doing:

An Ideal Venue: As swiftly as humanly possible, we are doing the work necessary to procure potential alternative locations for Outdoor Retailer. Though we may wish it different, this is far from a snap of the fingers thing to make happen. Convention centers and hotels are not sitting idle. In every instance of every potential venue, there are hurdles that have to be cleared and that simply cannot be done overnight.

We expect that our current proposal process – which we initiated before any of the company withdrawal announcements last week – will take between 60 and 90 days. We are exploring options for expediting this process and will keep you updated on the progress.

Gather Best Ideas: Outdoor Retailer and Outdoor Industry Association will harness the creative ideas already being put forth by exhibitors to express their opinions at Outdoor Retailer Summer Market. Through unity.outdoorretailer.com, we are exploring options including utilizing the time and funds earmarked for the Industry Breakfast as a time to express our opinions; rallies; conservation town halls; and a community camp out using city parks, among other ideas. We must work within the rules of the city, the existing permits we have and other laws by which we must abide. Our team has already begun to investigate what steps need to be taken to accommodate those activities. We are working in tandem with parties that have put forth ideas including brands, retailers, non-profits, rep groups and others.

We Need You: We need your voice. We need your support. And we need your creative ideas at unity.outdoorretailer.com. Please visit the site and lend your ideas to the community. We will provide updates on what we’ve gathered on Monday, February 27th.


Thank you,

Marisa Nicholson
Show Director of Outdoor Retailer

[Sombeech]

Jeez Beech, wasn't it you that once told me to quit being so sensitive on the forums? :ne_nau:

Oh I'm not offended or sensitive at all, in fact when I read those multiple descriptions of me hating the outdoors and environment, I literally laughed.

I have no opinion of the Public Lands issue. I don't know the policy, nor do I have any interest at the moment. Now I could ask what a certain political party thinks of it, and then align my opinions because of them, but that is lazy. Besides,my main critique was the Retailers leaving because a policy, instead of rallying more people to get involved in Outdoor Recreation and swaying public opinion. So I stand by my statement that I think they are going about this the wrong way, and yes, they are acting childish.

We see many examples of those who wanted to force others to change policy, in attempts at public outcry. Rarely does this tactic succeed. They usually end up kicking the rock down the road while muttering insulting names like Bigots, Racists, Misogynists, Capitalists....

An adult conversation, and compromise, usually yields better results for all.

[stefan]

We see many examples of those who wanted to force others to change policy, in attempts at public outcry. Rarely does this tactic succeed. They usually end up kicking the rock down the road while muttering insulting names like Bigots, Racists, Misogynists, Capitalists....



by your logic there would be no reason for lobbyists, and yet ...

[Brian in SLC]

We see many examples of those who wanted to force others to change policy, in attempts at public outcry. Rarely does this tactic succeed. They usually end up kicking the rock down the road while muttering insulting names like Bigots, Racists, Misogynists, Capitalists....

Actually, it works all the time. Here's a super recent one:

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/317514-gop-rep-pulls-bill-to-sell-federal-land

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865576470/Gov-Gary-Herbert-vetoes-controversial-carry-bill.html

How about Medicaid expansion?

Look at the recent Republican's who voted against the Sec of Education's confirmation. They voted "no" based on "public outcry".

Happens all the time.

That said, even though you hate the outdoors (ha ha), we agree mostly on the Outdoor Retailer boycott. Sad day. They'll be missed.

Its sucks that cooler and more intelligent heads couldn't have prevailed. But, that might be a lot to ask from boths sides (!).

I really think SLC is the best spot in the country for the OR. Same reason as some of us, who have a choice in where we live, choose to live here.

And, you can only saber rattle so much without someone calling the bluff. Leave that seat at the negotiating table...someone will fill it.

Can you imagine if SHOT came here? But, they're dug into Vegas.

I feel bad for the local mom-and-pop industry folks who won't be able to afford to attend a show somewhere else. Or, local reps. Local buyers. Dirtbags (ha ha). Local 503c's. I think the local industry benefited a lot more than people know. And, local businesses.

At a time when the industry is pretty healthy and has some growth. Bummer.

Oh well.

[Scott P]

So I stand by my statement that I think they are going about this the wrong way, and yes, they are acting childish.

We see many examples of those who wanted to force others to change policy, in attempts at public outcry. Rarely does this tactic succeed.

Would you hold a snowboarders convention at Alta? A coal mining convention in Boulder Colorado?

People typically hold conventions in places that share their values (well other than the Baptists Conventions), whatever those values are. The Outdoor Retailer Show is no different. Regardless of your values, why hold a convention at a place hostile to your values?

The sad part I see is that moving the Retailer Show outside Salt Lake City is going to hurt a lot of people who did share their values.

As Brian points out, the method does succeed. Money talks. Sadly, sometimes it's actually the only method that works. I guarantee that they wouldn't have even gotten an audience with the governor if there were no threat of leaving.

[hank moon]

85930

[twotimer]

Besides,my main critique was the Retailers leaving because a policy, instead of rallying more people to get involved in Outdoor Recreation and swaying public opinion. So I stand by my statement that I think they are going about this the wrong way, and yes, they are acting childish.

Excellent point! Instead of hanging around and working get folks in the state on their side, they're taking the ball and hauling ass to another state, giving the middle finger to everyone in Utah in the process. They're actually giving up and letting those that they oppose win.

Somebody in the industry got really pissed and infected everyone else. Snark and snipe about Republican this or Democrat that isn't going to fix a damn thing.

[Sombeech]

Would you hold a snowboarders convention at Alta? A coal mining convention in Boulder Colorado?

People typically hold conventions in places that share their values (well other than the Baptists Conventions), whatever those values are.

No, they hold conventions where the customers are. (Well, the smart ones anyways) This is why they were here in the first place.

Abandoning a large portion of your customer base usually isn't a smart business strategy.

For me, I couldn't care less if they stay or go, but I'll start purchasing from companies that put customer needs first, and personal political opinions last.

They'll catch on sooner or later.

[accadacca]

I say good riddance to them. Agree with Beech. I like companies who care about their customers and not politics. Turns me off.

[accadacca]

I spent the day riding in Colorado. They do have some spectacular mountains. I've been giving everyone here the middle finger after hearing the news yesterday. Lol

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170218/fff3b24f3d32932a0e2496241efd9ebf.jpg

[rockgremlin]

85930



"Gary's Gas" LMAO

[Iceaxe]

I couldn't care less if they stay or go, but I'll start purchasing from companies that put customer needs first, and personal political opinions last.

X2

[rockgremlin]

The OR folks weren't deliberately targeting their client base....they were targeting the bonehead leadership here in Utah. Their client base was just unfortunate collateral damage.


What I still don't understand is if outdoor recreation is such a multi-million dollar industry, and Herb and the rest of the good ole boys are all about the money....then why didn't they make more of an effort to accommodate the Outdoor Retailers? Why are they dumping all over an industry that is so lucrative? Are they just being obstinate to gratify their own pride, or what???

[Scott P]

For me, I couldn't care less if they stay or go, but I'll start purchasing from companies that put customer needs first, and personal political opinions last.

They'll catch on sooner or later.

Good luck with that, at least if you go mountaineering, canyoneering, or climbing. There isn't a mountaineer, climber, or canyoneer in this country that doesn't own gear from any of those retailers. Try to find one climber or canyoneer that doesn't own something from Black Diamond, just one of the retailers. The only hikers and backpackers that might not are the ones that buy their stuff exclusively from Walmart or K-Mart.

Outdoor companies aren't the only ones who have done this. How to you feel about gun-manufacturers moving their production out of states with stricter gun control than other areas? Several gun manufacturers have done this in recent years:

http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/culture-politics-network/gun-companies-moving/

This was a lot bigger scale than the Outdoor Retailer Show.

Isn't this the same thing?


Then why didn't they make more of an effort to accommodate the Outdoor Retailers? Why are they dumping all over an industry that is so lucrative? Are they just being obstinate to gratify their own pride, or what???

They think that things such as oil and coal are more lucrative. Actually, they are right in this regard, at least for now.

I think Chaffetz blew it with his proposal to sell public lands. Some Utah politicians have been claiming that they have no plans to sell public lands, but when people actually saw the sell of public lands as a bill, it scared them.

[accadacca]

The only hikers and backpackers that might not are the ones that buy their stuff exclusively from Walmart or K-Mart.
High quality gear...lol

[accadacca]

Colorado can bite me. I've never seen so many Subarus. Fake outdoors... [emoji23]

[Scott P]

I spent the day riding in Colorado. They do have some spectacular mountains. I've been giving everyone here the middle finger after hearing the news yesterday. Lol

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170218/fff3b24f3d32932a0e2496241efd9ebf.jpg

They probably thought it was because you ride a BMW. BMW drivers and riders do tend to flip everyone off. :haha:

[Sombeech]

Good luck with that, at least if you go mountaineering, canyoneering, or climbing. There isn't a mountaineer, climber, or canyoneer in this country that doesn't own gear from any of those retailers. Try to find one climber or canyoneer that doesn't own something from Black Diamond, just one of the retailers. The only hikers and backpackers that might not are the ones that buy their stuff exclusively from Walmart or K-Mart.
You're saying I'll have a tough time buying gear from a company that puts customer needs first, because I've only got these brands to choose from.

At least we can agree these companies don't have our best interests in mind.

That may be true, currently, but thank goodness for capitalism. There will be a customer oriented brand soon enough.

[Scott P]

High quality gear...lol

Exactly. Everyone who makes high quality gear was at the Outdoor Retailer Show.:haha: Otherwise, buy your stuff at Walmart or K-Mart. I don't think that they were there.


You're saying I'll have a tough time buying gear from a company that puts customer needs first, because I've only got these brands to choose from.

That may be true, currently, but thank goodness for capitalism.

Basically. Of course you can always start your own line of 'Beech Climbing Gear. If it comes with the famous Sombeech Afro logo, I might take a look.

[Iceaxe]

Exactly. Everyone who makes high quality gear was at the Outdoor Retailer Show.:haha: Otherwise, buy your stuff at Walmart or K-Mart. I don't think that they were there.

Not all retailers at the show supported or endorsed the move. If you have been paying attention it's easy to know which manufacturers I'll be avoiding in the future. That I've bought gear from some of these manufacturers in the past has no bearing on my future purchases.

This move is really going to hurt Utah's outdoor gear cottage industry. To bad they will become collateral damage as they are too small to have much of a voice. Also too bad some of the big boys pushing the move have forgotten their roots.

[accadacca]

Here is there newsroom of sorts. They sure moved quickly. Maybe a knee jerk decision or as gremlin said, they had been waiting to make a mockery of Utah.

http://unity.outdoorretailer.com/news/

[Scott P]

Not all retailers at the show supported or endorsed the move.

I agree and I have been paying attention. PS, can you at least send me some of that gear you don't want to use anymore?


Also too bad some of the big boys pushing the move have forgotten their roots.

It is too bad and it is also too bad that some in Utah are becoming more hostile to public lands and protections. I understand the economy part, but I still think that Chaffetz made a big mistake by actually calling for the sale of public lands in a bill. It really did backfire on him.

[Iceaxe]

I agree and I have been paying attention. PS, can you at least send me some of that gear you don't want to use anymore?

Why would I stop using gear I already own? That would accomplish none of my intended goals, but not buying any future products from said companies might.

Here is a good article on the collateral damage I mentioned earlier.

Outdoor Retailer departure draws varying degrees of concern
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=43222229&nid=1070

[hank moon]

There may be a misunderstanding about the OR show here. The "customer base" for OR is not you and me. It's buyers for resale (wholesale and retail). The booths mainly represent manufacturers/producers, with a few large distributors in the mix (e.g. Liberty Mtn.). It used to be a show where a lot of sales business got done - retailers would come, check out the new stuff, and write orders for the next season. Now, it's less a straight sales show and more of a marketing extravaganza (most of the "big" business gets done pre-show).

[middlefork]

Here is a link to the exhibitors.
Everybody should print it out and put on their fridge so it is handy the next time they go shopping for gear.

http://s15.a2zinc.net/clients/emeraldexpo/orwm2017/Public/exhibitors.aspx?ID=5832&AEID=1234

[hank moon]

Here is a link to the exhibitors.
Everybody should print it out and put on their fridge so it is handy the next time they go shopping for gear.


http://s15.a2zinc.net/clients/emeraldexpo/orwm2017/Public/exhibitors.aspx?ID=5832&AEID=1234


Excerpt from

https://www.utah.gov/governor/docs/OutdoorRecreationVision.pdf

The State of Utah Outdoor Recreation Vision

With its beautiful and unique landscapes and world-class facilities, Utah leads the nation in outdoor recreation. Opportunities for outdoor recreation in Utah are as diverse as the people who enjoy them. To some, outdoor recreation is as simple as walking the neighborhood trail or a bike ride around the block. To a child, it may be playing at the neighborhood park. Sportsmen and Sportswomen enjoy hunting and fishing in Utah’s great backcountry. Skiers flock to the “Greatest Snow on Earth.” For others, it’s backpacking, boating, motorized off-road vehicles, climbing, or rock hunting. The list of outdoor activities in Utah is vast and growing as innovative adventurers create new sports.

While Utah’s residents and visitors are having fun in the outdoors, they also feed our economy and improve their health. Utah’s outdoor recreation industry is a significant and growing part of the state’s economy, contributing well-paying jobs for highly skilled workers and a tax base that funds essential state services. Our close access to outdoor recreation contributes to a quality of life that a recent Gallup survey concluded was the best in the United States.1 This quality of life is particularly attractive to companies and their employees looking to relocate. And, as one of the more active states, Utah tops the nation in several health categories.

Pace-setters, however, cannot rest on their laurels. To enhance Utah’s leadership in outdoor recreation, Governor Gary R. Herbert charged the Governor’s Council on Balanced Resources with preparing a vision that emphasizes outdoor recreation as a priority in the state and sets a nationwide standard.

The Council undertook this effort fully aware of the challenges. The broad support for outdoor recreation belies many difficult underlying issues. How do we resolve tension among sometimes-conflicting recreational activities? Will increasing participation harm the very resources on which outdoor activities depend? Can we balance access to existing recreational activities with protecting environmentally sensitive landscapes? How will we fund necessary management and maintenance of recreational facilities in a financially constrained world? What is the appropriate balance between necessary resource development and protection of beautiful outdoor places? Could aggressive efforts to promote tourism diminish the opportunities for locals? Can developed recreation and backcountry recreation coexist? With the high cost of equipment, guides and travel, are popular outdoor activities being priced out of the range of average families? And, of course, there are many other issues.

[devo_stevo]

I have to say I have found this discussion to be pretty enlightening. Business in general is changing. Retail especially is very driven by social and environmental issues because the younger generations are into that. There are plenty of studies out there that show that a company's stance on social and environmental issues have more and more bearing on a person's purchasing decisions than ever before. This is mostly true with the young folks, but it's also true with the more experienced among us. You see it here with the calls to boycott this company or that company.

I didn't really have much of an opinion on this and the whole public lands thing before this, but the more I think of it I hate coming across gates on roads out in the middle of nowhere. I hate the idea of getting ticketed for trespassing in an area that I shouldn't have to worry about that. I hate land owners that block the only access to land that they don't own just because you have to travel through a corner of their land.

I love to mountain bike and for me, the real joy of it comes from being as far away from other people as possible. Utah is a great place for that. There are lots of places to go and not see anyone for a long time around here.

I guess after all this, I'm with Scott. I'm not as worried about the oil drilling or whatever out in these areas. I don't think that's the immediate danger here, but I hate the thought of losing access to them. As was mentioned before, I've also been to the east coast to Maryland, New Jersey, and New York. I don't want to live in a place that I have to pay a fee to go hiking, biking, or whatever else I want to do. They can keep that.

I'll be honest, the Bear's Ears, like the Grand Staircase, has no bearing on my life as far as something that affects me personally, but I fail to see how the monument designation really hurts anyone as is is in an area of the state that is far from large populations and not many folks ever visited there before. Now that it's on the radar, I'm betting people will show up. I would think that Bluff and Monticello could use some extra tourism to help them out a bit. Right now, everyone stops at Moab.

[Scott P]

I like companies who care about their customers and not politics. Turns me off.


Besides,my main critique was the Retailers leaving because a policy, instead of rallying more people to get involved in Outdoor Recreation and swaying public opinion.


For me, I couldn't care less if they stay or go, but I'll start purchasing from companies that put customer needs first, and personal political opinions last.


Not all retailers at the show supported or endorsed the move. If you have been paying attention it's easy to know which manufacturers I'll be avoiding in the future.

I have an honest question for you guys (if you own a gun at least).

Are you guys also going to stop buying from the gun and ammo manufacturers that moved their facilities out of states like Colorado, Connecticut, New York, and New Jersey, in order to make a political statement?

Magpul Industries, manufacturer of AR 15 parts, moved from Colorado to make a statement about Colorado gun control law.:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/26/magpul-finalizes-departure-colorado/

Kahr Arms, moved out of New York to make a statement against New York's gun control laws.

Remington, threatening to move out of New York to make a statement.

PTR Industries, moved out of Connecticut to make a statement.

Smith and Wesson, Ruger & Company, Sturm, Remington, and Beretta are all either leaving or threatening to leave states with gun control laws that they disagree with.

Would you buy from any of these companies since you only "like companies who care about their customers and not politics"?

Honest question.

[hank moon]

I like companies who care about their customers and not politics. Turns me off.

It's not clear to me how these companies are not caring about their customers. Would you explain?

[devo_stevo]

It's a big part of the human condition to see flaws in others while ignoring our own. People tend to align themselves with and buy products from those who agree with them on several levels.

People who value access to public lands tend to buy products from companies that support this notion and provide products that allow them to enjoy themselves while accessing those lands. As far as I'm concerned they are caring about their customers.

To say that it's lame that these companies did this because they're jerks then turn around and say that you'll never buy another Black Diamond product again is also lame. You are doing the exact same thing that they did and you are complaining about.

[Sombeech]

It's not clear to me how these companies are not caring about their customers. Would you explain?
Are they relocating because of personal political opinions, or to serve their customers better?

[devo_stevo]

I don't think that the customers will be served any less than they were before. The real downer about this is the small guys that have built up a business in Utah because this show was local. I think a lot of them will not survive as it's tough to compete. At least before they had a platform to stand on. Now the rug has been pulled from beneath their feet.

[Iceaxe]

Scott, your comparison of the OR show to gun control is not the same on numerous levels. But just to list the most obvious.... the right to keep and bear arms is a right and not a privilege. It's number two in the Bill of Rights for a reason, right next to freedom speach, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, Yada, yada....

Hosting the OR show is a privilege and not a right.... see the difference?

So basically your comparison is apples to elephants... probably best to discuss the OR staying or leaving on its own merits and not try and link it to the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[hank moon]

Are they relocating because of personal political opinions, or to serve their customers better?

No way to know. An argument could be made that the OR move is the direct result of one man's political opinions (Chouinard's (http://www.patagonia.com/blog/2017/01/the-outdoor-industry-loves-utah-does-utah-love-the-outdoor-industry/)). If Chouinard had not taken the initiative to pull Patagonia out, would OR be moving out now? Again, no way to know, really. My view is that some of OR's customers will be better served by the move, and others won't. In terms of customer service, the move will likely be viewed as neutral by most. As with everything in life, there is no gain without loss, and vice versa.

[Iceaxe]

^^^THIS^^^

[Brian in SLC]

No way to know. An argument could be made that the OR move is the direct result of one man's political opinions (Chouinard's (http://www.patagonia.com/blog/2017/01/the-outdoor-industry-loves-utah-does-utah-love-the-outdoor-industry/)). If Chouinard had not taken the initiative to pull Patagonia out, would OR be moving out now? Again, no way to know, really. My view is that some of OR's customers will be better served by the move, and others won't. In terms of customer service, the move will likely be viewed as neutral by most. As with everything in life, there is no gain without loss, and vice versa.

Wasn't just Coonyard. Metcalf, who helped get the OR here, has been very vocal about it as well. And a large number of other folks.

And, its not like Patagonia is pulling up stakes here. Their retail store on Highland (former home to Frontier Anglers), which is their second location on Highland (nearly across from the old Villa Theater and the original location for IME), doesn't have any plans to close. Nor have we heard that BD is leaving.

So, as far as pulling out on their customers...remember, this is a trade show which put buyers and sellers of outdoor stuff together at the dealer level, not the base primary consumer customer level.

Sure, maybe you could boycott all the retailers who're leaving...but...my guess is their loyal customer base will still support them more than ever (so sayeth me and my four new Patagonia Hawaiian shirts I got this last week). Danged if Patagucci doesn't make some fine fishin' gear too...

Funny to watch the local news media...out on the street, in their North Face, BD and Arcteryx (damn Canadians...ha ha) jackets. All with a heavy booth presence at the show.

Hank...you have to feel for poor ol' Tom, eh? He'd be an interesting chat after all this. Talk about caught in the middle.

Peter and Gary...maybe happier days (August 2010):

85932

What I'll miss about it is the buzz of the industry and being able to catch up with the many friends. As a local, was nice to have it here. I can't see myself travelling to another location...

Local company, started by Conrad and Alf...originally as Alfwear:

http://www.kuhl.com/content/press/bears-ears/

Heavy sigh.

[hank moon]

Wasn't just Coonyard. Metcalf, who helped get the OR here, has been very vocal about it as well. And a large number of other folks.

Chouinard was the first to take real action, after many years of a few heavies being "vocal" - kudos to him for personal integrity, etc., but...


Hank...you have to feel for poor ol' Tom, eh? He'd be an interesting chat after all this. Talk about caught in the middle.

I'd guess Tom is mostly there for socializing, variety ogling and free beer. :-) . Tom?

[Brian in SLC]

I'd guess Tom is mostly there for socializing, variety ogling and free beer. :-) . Tom?

Not this Tom...that Tom (formerly of Petzl and Liberty)...you know, the one that works directly for the Guv. The one who's wife makes awesome cookies...

[hank moon]

Not this Tom...that Tom (formerly of Petzl and Liberty)...you know, the one that works directly for the Guv. The one who's wife makes awesome cookies...

Oh,THAT Tom - yeah. mMMmmmm. Gwendo's cookies...

[hank moon]

Update: FAQ Available on Outdoor Retailer's Decision to Move the Show



Hello Outdoor Retailer Community,



Our decision to review venue options was a business decision for Outdoor Retailer. We’ve been exploring a change of dates for some time to better suit the evolving buy/sell cycle, optimize our hotel blocks and work with the city to provide adequate space for our growing show. We were at a fork in the road—extend our current contracts in Salt Lake City, or look for other options that would best support our efforts. We sought to co-locate with Grassroots Outdoor Alliance and respond to the growing concerns of the industry for a location that was more in line with the values of the community. On February 6, 2017 we announced that we would issue requests for proposals to seek a new home for Outdoor Retailer (http://r.emeraldexpoinfo.com/s.ashx?ms=EXI3:87146_171447&e=onka2na@gmail.com&eId=232112848&c=h&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.outdoorretailer.com%2fsummer-market%2fmedia%2fpress-releases%2fImportant-Industry-Announcement-3400.shtml).


It is clear that the heart and soul of our decision was not fully understood in light of recent news stories about public lands and the larger political discussions. Our goal is to continue to host a show that serves the needs of the industry. The overwhelming support of the show from retailers and brands, both publicly and privately, confirms the value and vitality of Outdoor Retailer as fulfilling a critical need. It is the only gathering where the entire industry comes together to build community, conduct commerce, share best practices and exchange ideas. This show is essential for iconic brands and retailers of all sizes, and will endure through this current challenge.


Perhaps it’s serendipity, but the entire situation has shed light on the value of public lands, and unified our community. Without access to public lands, our industries will not thrive.


In an effort to clarify fact from passionate discussions, the Outdoor Retailer team has answered questions we have been asked most frequently. You can access the FAQs (http://r.emeraldexpoinfo.com/s.ashx?ms=EXI3:87146_171447&e=onka2na@gmail.com&eId=232112848&c=h&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.outdoorretailer.com%2fstatic% 2fpdf%2fSM17_FAQs.pdf) on outdoorretailer.com (http://outdoorretailer.com/). If we haven’t answered your question, please feel free to reach out to our team:


Retailers and Reps can contact: Larry Harrison (larry.harrison@outdoorretailer.com), Brand Development Director or Joe Bustos (joe.bustos@outdoorretailer.com), Retail Relations Manger

Exhibitors can contact: Krista Dill (krista.dill@outdoorretailer.com), National Sales Director

Media can contact: Kate Lowery (kate.lowery@outdoorretailer.com), Director of Public Relations


On behalf of our team, I thank you for your continued support of Outdoor Retailer. We ask that you share this information with your team and visit unity.outdoorretailer.com (http://r.emeraldexpoinfo.com/s.ashx?ms=EXI3:87146_171447&e=onka2na@gmail.com&eId=232112848&c=h&url=https%3a%2f%2funity.outdoorretailer.com%2f) to learn more about the opportunities to talk about U.S. public lands at Summer Market. We look forward to seeing you in Salt Lake in July.


Thank you,


https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/FVzLOiNjxcpndXVCLHlZcCa4nSeBD_4cNA0sbIhKIPoZIZy6W7 3XjKyBsdAHjER5_tl0vTB8g4Zp5kU0gHJFcBq01KpCyhWGtbW0 N1XhuO5pJIBTJAgCgJlSugsIJsvfDw=s0-d-e1-ft#http://s15.a2zinc.net/Clients/EmeraldExpo/GlobalAdmin/CUSTOM/marisa-sig.jpg









Marisa Nicholson
VP & Show Director, Outdoor Retailer

[Sandstone Addiction]

Perhaps it’s serendipity, but the entire situation has shed light on the value of public lands, and unified our community. Without access to public lands, our industries will not thrive.





I don't get it. Why do they keep bringing up the issue of "access" to public lands? Monument status, wilderness designation, National Recreation Areas, etc. are all about RESTRICTING access.

I don't understand the lost revenue issue either. Is the state loosing 40+ million in lost taxes? That would mean these people spend A LOT of money. Or is it lost revenue for local businesses like hotels, restaurants and bars?

[accadacca]

It is clear that the heart and soul of our decision was not fully understood in light of recent news stories about public lands and the larger political discussions.
Calling bullshit on this statement.

[stefan]

Calling bullshit on this statement.

the faq in hank's post provides some clarity. what exactly are you calling bullshit on?

[accadacca]

the faq in hank's post provides some clarity. what exactly are you calling bullshit on?
Maybe I am reading it wrong, but it sounds like they are saying the lands issue wasn't the primary reason for leaving. Kinda trying to back peddle.

[stefan]

Maybe I am reading it wrong, but it sounds like they are saying the lands issue wasn't the primary reason for leaving. Kinda trying to back peddle.

they are not at all backpedaling on that. they say "wasn't fully understood" which might mean they felt they needed to supplement incomplete information or counter misinformation or misunderstood information.

[Iceaxe]

Acca, your not reading it wrong. The OR Show received some bad press for several legitimate reasons when they announced they were pulling out of Utah. The FAQ is their attempt to spin the narrative into their favor.... in other words.... just politics as usual.

[accadacca]

It is clear that the heart and soul of our decision was not fully understood in light of recent news stories about public lands and the larger political discussions.

Their FAQs contradict this statement. They talk about the land issue and politics quite a bit.

After we got off the phone with the guv, we decided to pull out of Utah, but ya know it wasn't really about all that. We had been wanting to do what is best for the community...it was purely a business decision. Nothing to do with stroking a few egos.

[stefan]

Acca, your not reading it wrong. The OR Show received some bad press for several legitimate reasons when they announced they were pulling out of Utah. The FAQ is their attempt to spin the narrative into their favor.... in other words.... just politics as usual.

the faq makes it pretty clear that it's the opposite of what acca interpreted.


Did Outdoor Retailer agree with the ultimatum that appeared to have been issued by industry leaders after the conversation with Governor Herbert?

Outdoor Retailer strongly believes in the importance of preserving our national public lands and places where Americansrecreate. We agree with the outcome of the meeting, that leaving the state of Utah is what we need to do. We stand withour industry.

The media coverage of the telephone call between industry leaders and Governor Herbert from Utah characterized thediscussion as “curt.” Were you part of the call and would you agree with the characterization?

Outdoor Retailer was part of the call and has been part of discussions with Utah legislators regarding public lands for along time. Industry leaders did present their points of view in the conversation in question, as did the Governor. Ultimately,as a result of the telephone call, Outdoor Retailer will not include the state of Utah in the RFP process for future showlocations.

If the Governor were able to change his position on public lands would Outdoor Retailer consider Utah and include themin the RFP?

Timing is very important now. We are already in the RFP process and intend to stay with our original timeline of 60-90days in order to find our new venue. If the Governor of Utah were to change his position to be more in line with the outdoorindustry’s values, then perhaps we would be able to consider Utah as a location in the future.

[accadacca]

Why did Outdoor Retailer stay in Utah for over 20 years considering the public lands policies of the state?

Every time our contract is up for renewal, we survey the community. Utah has always been a favorite, though in recent years we’ve seen a decline in the level of support. With the contract due for renewal, and the state’s current inflammatory views towards public land legislation, it is a good time to assess all of our options.
..

[accadacca]

Lawmakers dangle $1 million to woo back outdoor retailers

http://www.sltrib.com/news/5032327-155/lawmakers-dangle-1-million-to-woo

[rockgremlin]

Lawmakers dangle $1 million to woo back outdoor retailers

http://www.sltrib.com/news/5032327-155/lawmakers-dangle-1-million-to-woo

LOL. That train has left the station.

Dear Herb -

The problem is not this: $$$

This is the problem:

Mining/drilling >> conservation/recreation


Might I suggest La Sportiva Primer Low GTX. They're Gore-Tex lined, and very well ventilated. Great for hiking, biking, and back-pedaling.

86018

[Scott P]

It's official. They are coming to Colorado. I guess we'll enjoy the extra revenue over here.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865680744/Outdoor-Retailer-takes-show-to-Denver.html

[Iceaxe]

I know losing this was bad for some SLC downtown business, but for me personally I prefer not to deal with the clog of humanity this dumped in our city every year.

[Sombeech]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865680744/Outdoor-Retailer-takes-show-to-Denver.html

Show organizers said in February they were leaving Utah for a new long-term home because of Republican state leaders' opposition to the new Bears Ears National Monument and other public land policies.
The show had considered leaving in the past over philosophical differences and finally did after Gov. Gary Herbert signed a resolution calling on federal officials to rescind the monument that President Barack Obama designated on 1.3 million acres of land in southeastern Utah considered sacred to Native American tribes.

There's a word for that;

BIGOTRY

ok if you want to soften it up a bit;

Intolerance

[Scott P]

There's a word for that;

BIGOTRY

ok if you want to soften it up a bit;

Intolerance

It's called a business decision.

Lot of people shop or provide business to businesses that share their values.

If I didn't agree with shopping on Sunday, is shopping at stores that are closed on Sunday bigotry?

How about this one which happened in the town I live in?

http://www.denverpost.com/2015/06/08/craig-liquor-stores-pull-new-belgium-beer-for-supporting-wildearth-guardians/

CRAIG — Liquor stores and restaurants in Craig are pulling Colorado craft beers off their shelves due to the beer companies’ financial support of WildEarth Guardians, the environmental group that put Colowyo Coal Mine at risk of being shut down.

[hank moon]

There's a word for that;

BIGOTRY

ok if you want to soften it up a bit;

Intolerance




There's a word for that:

CLICKBAIT

ok if you want to soften it up a bit;

Capitalism

:bandit:

[Sombeech]

They must agree with Trump's opinions about Bears Ear monument, because they are still choosing to operate in the United States.

[accadacca]

"We chose Denver because of Colorado's long-term commitment to protecting and nurturing public lands."

http://kutv.com/news/local/politics-cited-in-outdoor-retailer-shows-move-from-utah-to-colorado

[uintafly]

"We chose Denver because of Colorado's long-term commitment to protecting and nurturing public lands."

http://kutv.com/news/local/politics-cited-in-outdoor-retailer-shows-move-from-utah-to-colorado

It's too bad they left, but I wonder if they will end up regretting it down the road. Denver is a nice city but doesn't have anywhere near the easy access to outdoor recreation that SLC does. I think the winter show will especially feel the pain when they have to drive 2 hours for ski demos.

[rockgremlin]

Everyone I've ever talked to about this issue is in full agreement that there's no other city like Salt Lake when it comes to big city access to mountains/slopes. Denver's damn near a 90 minute drive to the mountains. So 3+ hours of round trip driving to get to the mountains whereas Salt Lake is a 10 minute drive...and maybe even less than that depending on where you live.

But is anybody really surprised about this? It's not a state secret that many environmentalist groups operate out of Colorado. SUWA's grand poobah lives in Golden, Colorado for example.

[Iceaxe]

It looks like Colorado paid $1.7 million to get the Outdoor Retailer Show. That didn't come cheap.

Colorado contributes $1.7 million to lure Outdoor Retailer to Denver
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=45111598&nid=960

[rockgremlin]

Drop in the bucket compared to the tens of millions they're gonna get in return.

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/f3d33e2607e5ad53cbfd1fc26cce299d.png

[Sombeech]

Denver's damn near a 90 minute drive to the mountains. So 3+ hours of round trip driving to get to the mountains whereas Salt Lake is a 10 minute drive...and maybe even less than that depending on where you live.


My first trip to Denver was very disappointing. We drove there at night, and in the morning I was waiting to look at all of the beautiful mountains at first light. So I walk out of the house we were staying at, and NOTHING, I couldn't see a single damned hill.

I thought, oh maybe it's hazy and the mountains are just behind a fog or something. I thought maybe the houses in the neighborhood are blocking my view. Then I saw the mountains. Waaayyyyyyyy down there. This is what everybody is talking about?

And that's where my hatred for the outdoors began. Thanks Denver.

[Scott P]

My first trip to Denver was very disappointing. We drove there at night, and in the morning I was waiting to look at all of the beautiful mountains at first light. So I walk out of the house we were staying at, and NOTHING, I couldn't see a single damned hill.

I thought, oh maybe it's hazy and the mountains are just behind a fog or something. I thought maybe the houses in the neighborhood are blocking my view. Then I saw the mountains. Waaayyyyyyyy down there. This is what everybody is talking about?

Same here, only we arrived by DIA. I walked to all the airport windows looking for the mountains. I finally saw them-waaaay out there.

In addition to having the mountains way out there, traffic is absolutely horrible to get to them. Silverthorne, in the mountains is about 131 miles from my house and about 67 miles from Denver. On a Friday afternoon I can drive there faster than the folks from Denver, even though it's twice as far for me.

It's too bad that Colorado (overall) is a lot more supportive of public lands than Utah is. There are almost no public lands east of I-25 in Colorado, but that part is flat and mostly uninteresting anyway. West of I-25, the public land percentage in Colorado is comparable to that of Utah, but Utah still holds several advantages when it comes to variety (Colorado is pretty varied as well).

When it comes to major US cities in the lower 48, none of them compare to SLC when it comes to access to the outdoors (Anchorage may come close). Places like Seattle, Las Vegas, Reno, Boise, or Denver are OK, but SLC is superior by far.

[Sandstone Addiction]

My first trip to Denver was very disappointing. We drove there at night, and in the morning I was waiting to look at all of the beautiful mountains at first light. So I walk out of the house we were staying at, and NOTHING, I couldn't see a single damned hill.

I thought, oh maybe it's hazy and the mountains are just behind a fog or something. I thought maybe the houses in the neighborhood are blocking my view. Then I saw the mountains. Waaayyyyyyyy down there. This is what everybody is talking about?

And that's where my hatred for the outdoors began. Thanks Denver.My first trip to Denver was dissapointing as well. Arrived in the middle of the night to find all hotels full. Drove to Thornton to a shopping center parking lot and fell asleep.

Woke up staring down the barrel of a Glock 17 with a cop yelling at my buddy and I to get out of the car and get spread eagle on the hood. Meanwhile, 2 more cop cars show up and they stood around laughing about the two hicks from Utah and their first trip to a "big city".

Needless to say, we found a hotel for the rest of the trip.

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk

[accadacca]

I boycotted the show by not showing up this year. :roflol:

[Iceaxe]

I also skipped the show this year, and I know for certain I won't be travelling to Denver next year.

[rockgremlin]

Woke up staring down the barrel of a Glock 17 with a cop yelling at my buddy and I to get out of the car and get spread eagle on the hood. Meanwhile, 2 more cop cars show up and they stood around laughing about the two hicks from Utah and their first trip to a "big city".


Dude, WTF? So what was the outcome?

[Sandstone Addiction]

Apparently the local LE weren't used to law abiding citizens exercising their right to protect themselves. He saw my legally unloaded, non-concealed 357 mag and went crazy.

After they searched our vehicle and found nothing, they reluctantly let us go.

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk

[rockgremlin]

Apparently the local LE weren't used to law abiding citizens exercising their right to protect themselves. He saw my legally unloaded, non-concealed 357 mag and went crazy.

After they searched our vehicle and found nothing, they reluctantly let us go.

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk


Oh brother! :roll:

Of all people, you'd think cops would understand the gun laws.

It may have been a ruse to search your vehicle -- which even then, if you refused they're not allowed to search your car. No warrant = no search. They might want to claim that your sidearm gave them reasonable cause, but that's a weak excuse that probably wouldn't hold up in court. Especially since it sounds like you weren't brandishing or threatening anybody with it. Minding your own business with an unloaded sidearm on your hip isn't a good excuse to search someone's vehicle.

[Iceaxe]

If you had spent much time around law enforcement you would know they are the kings of breaking the law when it benefits them. I could easily write a book on just things I've witnessed. I do understand where groups like black lives matter are coming from, although I think they often pick the wrong encounter to champion they do have a legitimate bitch.

[DirkHammergate]

Everyone I've ever talked to about this issue is in full agreement that there's no other city like Salt Lake when it comes to big city access to mountains/slopes. Denver's damn near a 90 minute drive to the mountains. So 3+ hours of round trip driving to get to the mountains whereas Salt Lake is a 10 minute drive...and maybe even less than that depending on where you live.

So, this was one of the more intriguing stories to me locally over the last year. I don't mean to rehash an old forum topic but I'm Hammergate so I will.

A little background on me, I grew up outside a place that were difficult to enjoy nature without crowds or proper permitting. As a kid would come to Utah every summer in a station wagon that might overheat in the middle of Nevada (Dad was a school principal so it typically was a 2 to 3 week trip depending on where the radiator blew out). Every time I'd see the Wasatch Front became mesmerized, I just couldn't stop staring and wanting to explore it. I decided at a young age to reside permanently in Utah with the occasional hippie dream to live Santa Cruz. Fast forward 30 + years (marriage, divorce, teen kids cycle) and I still stare at them in wonder from the back yard of my house.

As a parent of teenage boys that are with me half the time I decided about 6 months ago to stay busy when they weren't at home. Idle time is a bad, bad thing for Dirk,I tend to find myself in all sorts of pickles if not busy. I decided to start Uber driving because I'm a bit of a conversationalist, like road trips and being in Sugarhouse thought it'd be a great way to shuttle people downtown/airport.

This brings me to my point, I picked up at least 20 outdoor vendors and I'd ask them how they felt about the change in venue to Denver. Reaction ranged from pissed, sad, bewildered, concern for Downtown businesses and and some didn't even have the ability to compute why Utah's delegation was so against preserving these Monuments. Again, they all cited Denver's proximity to anything in comparison to SLC. All talked about how they love coming to Salt Lake City and it doesn't compute that we have a delegation like this because it's not been their experience. Not a single vendor was happy about it. Needless to say, It was pretty eye opening.

I'm not here to say who is right or wrong in this but I can't figure out what the answer is. It's seems worse to me than say 15 or 20 years ago. My favorite spot on the planet, the entire planet resides in the San Rafael Swell a place where mixed use seems really great. Yes at times it can be like Disneyland but at the same time I've had incredible experiences down there where my soul felt whole, complete and magical. This State is a jewel from the Deep Creeks to the Parks to the Uintas to Fish Lake to the Great Salt Lake to Boulder Mountain and the Henry's. I simply don't understand the disconnect between the delegation and the majority of Utahns that want them. Plus at 50 million per year, with a renewed years long contract, it's just a blunder.

[rockgremlin]

^^^The Swell is also one of my favorite places in the world. Had many a spiritual experience out there in the heart of the Swell.

[DirkHammergate]

^^^The Swell is also one of my favorite places in the world. Had many a spiritual experience out there in the heart of the Swell.

Almost every time I go, 2/3 times a spring or fall.

Oh one of Uber experiences has also been people coming into Utah for the first time and asking the question "What the hell is that over on the west side of your valley?"

"Ummm, an open pit mine"

Yeah that's fun.

[Sombeech]

some didn't even have the ability to compute why Utah's delegation was so against preserving these Monuments.

Here is the primary point of conflict. They think we don't want to preserve these things.

I'm still yet to hear the real reason why they think we want these places gone.

[Scott P]

Here is the primary point of conflict. They think we don't want to preserve these things.

I'm still yet to hear the real reason why they think we want these places gone.

Simple. Because the State does almost nothing to try and protect them.

[Sombeech]

Simple. Because the State does almost nothing to try and protect them.

*almost

I think that needs to be defined.

Because some are defining that as an active agenda to "destroy" the monuments, and these jackasses need to be called out on it.

[Scott P]

*almost

I think that needs to be defined.

That's fair. So let's define it.

Can you post us a list of things the State of Utah has done in recent years to protect the wildlands? I can think of very few, thus the "almost nothing" phrase.

I will be happy to provide a list of things the State of Utah has done in recent years that goes against the protection of wildlands.

We could compare lists. To start with, can you post some things in recent years that the State of Utah has been doing to protect wildlands?

[Sombeech]

That's fair. So let's define it.

Can you post us a list of

...no, you made the claim, I'd like a definition.

Understand, I don't care either way, I don't have a horse in this race. When I hear a claim like that, I'd just like some clarification of what it means, and how it translates into us locals want to level the unique monuments of Utah with a Walmart parking lot.

[Sombeech]

I've heard the claims that "Utah Mormon Conservatives don't care about the monuments". I'm just interested in some quote, or some tweet, or some evidence that a Utah politician, on EITHER side, doesn't care about these lands.

What it comes down to is if you don't do this our way, since we know best, it can only mean that you want these lands to get destroyed. It's a little closed minded if you ask me, to assume a certain political policy is the only thing that will work, and if it's not supported, everybody else wants to see it burn.

And then when the point can't be discussed in a mature way, to stomp their feet, take their ball and leave, and try to show the public how much they will all be punished by not agreeing with their political agenda. It's just crybaby bullshit and I don't care because I'm still going down to St George this weekend to go Mountain Biking, and I buy all my stuff from Amazon.

[middlefork]

I buy all my stuff from Amazon.

LOL! Like you click on the checkout box and whatever you ordered is manufactured by Amazon. Amazing how the new world operates.

[Sombeech]

LOL! Like you click on the checkout box and whatever you ordered is manufactured by Amazon. Amazing how the new world operates.

Yep, if it comes from Colorado or Florida, I'm biking when it gets to me in 2 days from Amazon prime. If I'm a Utah bike parts seller/manufacturer, I'm not moving my shop to Colorado just because the crybabies picked up their event and moved it.

Still kinda waiting to hear how I want to level a monument. Don't get distracted by the shiny object, now.

[rockgremlin]

I'm still going down to St George this weekend to go Mountain Biking, and I buy all my stuff from Amazon.

Which skate park are you riding your mountain bike at? Cuz I know you aren't venturing out into the wilderness. You hate the wilderness.

[Sombeech]

Which skate park are you riding your mountain bike at? Cuz I know you aren't venturing out into the wilderness. You hate the wilderness.

The only indoor one they have down there. It really sucks because now, I've got to drive all the way over to Colorado to pick up my bike parts, since Utah hates it's own land.

[Scott P]

I've heard the claims that "Utah Mormon Conservatives don't care about the monuments"

Some don't and some do. There are actually a lot of Utah Mormons who are pro-wilderness. James Faust was one of them. Protecting the environment is also a commandment from the First Presidency.

More Mormons need to stand up in this regard. It seems that a lot of politicians fit in your category above, but not nearly as many in the general population.


What it comes down to is if you don't do this our way, since we know best, it can only mean that you want these lands to get destroyed.

To be clear, I am referring to protecting wildlands, not all lands. I can promise you that I'm not anti development.


I want to see some evidence that a Utah politician, on EITHER side, doesn't care about these lands.

Oh they care about these lands, but not from a protection standpoint. They care about the money that can be exploited from them (and earning money is a good thing, but in my opinion at least there are right and wrong ways to do so).

As evidence how about the illegal ATV rides organized by some of the politicians themselves? Do you really think that that is protecting the land? Organizing ATV rallies through archaeological sites and where the creek themselves (i.e. the Paria) is not protecting the land. That in itself is a mountain of evidence.


And then when the point can't be discussed in a mature way, to stomp their feet, take their ball and leave, and try to show the public how much they will all be punished by not agreeing with their political agenda

It was the other way around. For years the convention tried to work and compromise with the Utah lawmakers in hopes that they would make some progress. Most of the time, the Utah lawmakers usually went counter to attempts at compromise.

Here is just one random direct quote from Orrin Hatch as evidence (I could post hundreds, but want to post one at a time to see if anyone else can post something positive in the way Utah is protecting the wildlands):

“This bill creates millions of acres of restrictive wilderness designation in Utah that would obstruct energy development and future energy transmission, as well as recreational access to a large portion of our state –Orrin Hatch

[Sombeech]

For years the convention tried to work and compromise with the Utah lawmakers in hopes that they would make some progress.



Compromise goes both ways, and this is an honest question, what did the convention agree to give up on, what were they willing to abandon so they could meet in the middle?

[Scott P]

Compromise goes both ways, and this is an honest question, what did the convention agree to give up on, what were they willing to abandon so they could meet in the middle?

For years the Outdoor Retailer Trade Show agreed to keep the show in Utah as long as Utah didn't always oppose designations of wilderness and monuments. For 20+ years Utah politicians kept telling the show that they will do more to support wildlands, but they seldom did. The Outdoor Retailer Trade Show stayed anyway in good faith, despite broken promises. This was certainly compromise. When the retailers themselves started pulling out of the show or boycotting it, the Show really had little choice.

[Scott P]

Compromise goes both ways, and this is an honest question, what did the convention agree to give up on, what were they willing to abandon so they could meet in the middle?

For years the Outdoor Retailer Trade Show agreed to keep the show in Utah as long as Utah didn't always oppose designations of wilderness and monuments. For 20+ years Utah politicians kept telling the show that they will do more to support wildlands, but they seldom did (though admittedly a few token gestures were made). The Outdoor Retailer Trade Show stayed anyway in good faith, despite broken promises.

Concering specific examples of compromise, when Utah politicians were against the Redrocks Bill, for example, the Show still agreed to stay. This was certainly compromise. As far as I know the show never said that they would leave unless 100% of their demands were met.

When the retailers themselves started pulling out of the show or boycotting it, the Show really had little choice. They can't stay in business if a lot of the business that support the show were boycotting it or pulling out. It was an economic decision. Here is a pretty good article explaining why they left:

https://www.outsideonline.com/2155931/outdoor-industry-pushes-back-against-utah

[DirkHammergate]

Give me a reason not to ghost this place... Dirk deserves better than this.

[rockgremlin]

Give me a reason not to ghost this place... Dirk deserves better than this.


Do you like Slot Machine's posts?

[Sombeech]

For years the Outdoor Retailer Trade Show agreed to keep the show in Utah as long as Utah didn't always oppose designations of wilderness and monuments.

So they "compromised" by tolerating the political environment of Utah, waiting for them to change their mind?

Compromising means more than just "putting up with somebody else". It means to meet in the middle, not to wait and wait for the opposition to finally agree with you.

I surely hope that's not how they define their compromise, to "continue to do business in Utah". Damn. Each opposing side gives something up, meets in the middle.

"Waiting it out" is not compromising. I hope they have a better example than that when they tell how they compromised for 20+ years.

[DirkHammergate]

Compromising means more than just "putting up with somebody else". It means to meet in the middle, not to wait and wait for the opposition to finally agree with you.

Repeat.... Echo Chamber.

[DirkHammergate]

Repeat.... Echo Chamber.

And you can chat with me on AIM, Hotmail or Yahoo messenger,

The end!

[Scott P]

Each opposing side gives something up, meets in the middle.

They did try to meet in the middle by accepting much less wildlands protection than they thought was needed. That is giving something up, whether or not it is important to you. It was important to them and to me as well. Just because money wasn't exchanged doesn't mean that something wasn't given up.

If the lawmakers Utah would have met in the middle in years past, it is likely that the show would have stayed. Now days too many people (yes on both sides) want an all or nothing approach.

[DirkHammergate]

Well I might not be quiet out just yet. The teenagers want a Estes Large Stromblie with marinara, to Go!! BRB

[Iceaxe]

Give me a reason not to ghost this place... Dirk deserves better than this.

What's the matter? Stealing Wi-Fi from the bar next door not working as smoothly as you had hoped?

[DirkHammergate]

What's the matter? Stealing Wi-Fi from the bar next door not working as smoothly as you had hoped?

I wouldn't mind living in those days again. Goofail is underwhelming in the Hood.

[middlefork]

Yep, if it comes from Colorado or Florida, I'm biking when it gets to me in 2 days from Amazon prime. If I'm a Utah bike parts seller/manufacturer, I'm not moving my shop to Colorado just because the crybabies picked up their event and moved it.

Still kinda waiting to hear how I want to level a monument. Don't get distracted by the shiny object, now.

Off the top of my head I don't know of any outdoor related company in Utah leaving to go to Colorado based on the stance of Outdoor Retailers Association.

The damage has already be done whether the monuments stay, go or are modified. I wasn't in favor of BENM but the fight for and against has done nothing but bring unwanted attention to a beautiful part of the state. And with the attention comes overuse and overcrowding.

Taking the E bike to St George? It should be a great weekend.

[Sombeech]

Taking the E bike to St George? It should be a great weekend.

I don't own an ebike, but I'll ride one every chance I get just to watch people freak out at the "trail damage"

[tallsteve]

.... but the fight for and against has done nothing but bring unwanted attention to a beautiful part of the state. And with the attention comes overuse and overcrowding.

^^This^^. It's been interesting to be a part of conversations with my Utah friends when they start berating the move to downscale BENM. The question I always ask them is this- before the National Monument designation or before discussions about creating the monument even began, had you ever been there or even heard of the Bears Ear area? I have yet to have even one of them answer "yes". NOT A ONE. And, these are Utah residents. Now, they all want to go there.

[Scott P]

^^This^^. It's been interesting to be a part of conversations with my Utah friends when they start berating the move to downscale BENM. The question I always ask them is this- before the National Monument designation or before discussions about creating the monument even began, had you ever been there or even heard of the Bears Ear area? I have yet to have even one of them answer "yes". NOT A ONE. And, these are Utah residents. Now, they all want to go there.

Maybe they haven't heard of it in context with the Bears Ears, but for sure a lot of people have heard of places in the Monument such as Grand Gulch, Black Hole, Fish Creek, Dark Canyon, etc. Those are household names for anyone familiar with hiking in Utah.

[tallsteve]

Maybe they haven't heard of it in context with the Bears Ears, but for sure a lot of people have heard of places in the Monument such as Grand Gulch, Black Hole, Fish Creek, Dark Canyon, etc. Those are household names for anyone familiar with hiking in Utah.

Uh, no. They couldn't tell me anything about what's within the boundary. This has been consistent with 6 or 7 of my far left leaning friends. Granted, outside of only one of them, the others idea of enjoying the great outdoors is walking from their air conditioned condos to their Prius. I'm just saying that most people haven't been there and don't know anything about it. Then when this all came up, it's now life and death.

[Scott P]

Uh, no. They couldn't tell me anything about what's within the boundary. This has been consistent with 6 or 7 of my far left leaning friends. Granted, outside of only one of them, the others idea of enjoying the great outdoors is walking from their air conditioned condos to their Prius. I'm just saying that most people haven't been there and don't know anything about it. Then when this all came up, it's now life and death.

Your friends need to get out more.

[tallsteve]

Your friends need to get out more.

Maybe I just need new friends.

[Brian in SLC]

Uh, no. They couldn't tell me anything about what's within the boundary. This has been consistent with 6 or 7 of my far left leaning friends. Granted, outside of only one of them, the others idea of enjoying the great outdoors is walking from their air conditioned condos to their Prius. I'm just saying that most people haven't been there and don't know anything about it. Then when this all came up, it's now life and death.

I'll admit to being in that same boat. I had to google around a fair bit to figure out what was in, what wasn't. Its a huge area. And, I'm very familiar with most of it just not what the actual "Bear's Ears" monument actually included.

Sure, its brought attention to it. Maybe take some pressure off of poor over loved Zion...ha ha.

[Brian in SLC]

Off the top of my head I don't know of any outdoor related company in Utah leaving to go to Colorado based on the stance of Outdoor Retailers Association.

Well...they all are...in terms of attending the OR trade show. It isn't here anymore.

But, yeah, haven't heard of any pulling up manufacturing stakes to move to 'Rado. BD still here. Liberty. Petzl USA. Etc. And, there are plenty of good reasons why.

[accadacca]

Just got this email...

“Registration for Summer Market is now open. Join the rest of the outdoor industry at the Colorado Convention Center in Denver, CO from July 23-26, 2018.”

Uh. Nope.

[DirkHammergate]

Just got this email...

“Registration for Summer Market is now open. Join the rest of the outdoor industry at the Colorado Convention Center in Denver, CO from July 23-26, 2018.”

Uh. Nope.

This is totally self inflicted and to quote a Led Zepplin classic "Nobody's Fault but MINE!"

Half a Billion Dollars -> "Peace Out Utah"

[Iceaxe]

Half a Billion Dollars -> "Peace Out Utah"

Not one single dollar went into my pocket, yet I had to put up with the crowds clogging the valley.... It doesn't hurt my feelings in the least to see them go.

[DirkHammergate]

Not one single dollar went into my pocket, yet I had to put up with the crowds clogging the valley.... It doesn't hurt my feelings in the least to see them go.

6 ways to Sunday you just lost not only tax money, services upon millions and services industries. It will come out of your pocket, just like me. This is an absolute brain freeze.

[Sombeech]

I'm posting a picture of all the money I lost over this.








Hold on it's loadinghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180316/6c4ff813b9278237317e675cc3f7b748.jpg

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[Iceaxe]

6 ways to Sunday you just lost not only tax money, services upon millions and services industries. It will come out of your pocket, just like me. This is an absolute brain freeze.

I'm not saying others didn't lose out big time, but personally I lost nothing and I feel no sadness in the OR show departing. I honestly wish the tourists (including the OR) would stay far away.

[Sombeech]

Some of the people that shout "Quit advertising all of Utah's cool outdoor secrets!"

are the very same people saying "Please let's do whatever it takes to keep the Outdoor Retailer Show here!".

[accadacca]

I just got a call from the Outdoor Retailer Show asking if I would be attending and if they could help me get registered. I said nope.

They have never called me before and maybe I was registered earlier in previous years.

I wonder what their registration numbers look like since they moved to Denver?