Obama to declare Bears Ears National Monument in Utah

[accadacca]

http://www.hcn.org/articles/bears-ears-monument-gets-closer-to-reality/bears_ears_proposalmap-jpg/image

President Barack Obama today will designate Bears Ears National Monument in southern Utah, according to Sen. Mike Lee's communications secretary.

"While Obama vacations in Hawaii, it appears the [White House] will announce an unwanted and unpopular monument designation in Utah at 4 p.m.," tweeted Conn Carroll (https://twitter.com/conncarroll/status/814202307344814080), who then linked to several opinion pieces and news articles about the proposed Bears Ears National Monument.

Obama's move would come against the express wishes of Utah's state and federally elected leaders, who have vowed to repeal the designation.

There has been broad agreement that the Bears Ears region should be protected, but opinions diverge sharply over the extent of that protection and the mechanism for achieving it.

Elected San Juan County leaders have been nearly unanimous in their opposition to a monument, arguing it would stymie public access and disrupt traditional uses (http://www.savebearsears.com/4-reasons-locals-not-want-monument/). Congressman Rob Bishop, R-Utah, and many other state leaders claimed a monument "unilaterally" established through executive decree — under the 1906 Antiquities Act — would disenfranchise local sentiment and perpetuate conflict over use of public lands.

On the other hand, tribal officials elected to Navajo government posts supported or openly advocated the monument designation, arguing Utah leaders had their chance and failed to come up with a meaningful conservation plan. These officials — including Navajo Nation Council delegate Davis Filfred and former Ute Mountain Ute councilwoman Regina Lopez-Whiteskunk — say the designation is necessary to curb vandalism, looting and off-roading. Bears Ears' cultural treasures preserve an intact archaeological record dating back thousands of years and serve as a cultural touchstone for numerous indigenous communities.

An Obama designation raises the possibility that President-elect Donald Trump would be pressed to undo the monument. In early December, Bishop — chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee and known for his opposition to federal oversight of public lands — met with Trump's transition team, asking the incoming president to consider revoking large-scale monuments that Obama designated over the objections of local leaders.

Bishop, chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee, sponsored a bill with Rep. Jason Chaffetz, also R-Utah, attempting to preserve critical lands in the Bears Ears area, and other parts of the state, without a monument designation. Opponents view the legislation as a giveaway to oil and gas interests and it was introduced too late for Congress to act.
While many residents of tourism-dependent Bluff supported the monument push, most in Blanding and Monticello have been steadfastly opposed.

In a Dec. 14 letter to the president, Blanding native Jami Bayles decried a proposed monument as "nothing but a Trojan Horse that will undoubtedly destroy this area" and discounted the pro-monument sentiments of tribal members living just outside Utah in three adjoining states.

"A National Monument should be an honor to an area, not a punishment — and it should not be done TO the residents, but rather WITH the residents," wrote Bayles, who works in student services at Utah State University-Eastern.

Brian Maffly covers (https://plus.google.com/+BrianMaffly/posts) public lands for (http://muckrack.com/brian-maffly/articles) The Salt Lake Tribune (https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianmaffly). Brian Maffly can be (https://www.facebook.com/brian.maffly) reached at (http://snewsi.com/author/Brian+Maffly) bmaffly@sltrib.com or 801-257-8713. Twitter: @brianmaffly (http://twitter.com/brianmaffly)

More: http://www.hcn.org/articles/bears-ears-monument-gets-closer-to-reality

[accadacca]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYj-ZgR6n7w

[accadacca]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsLkzUjOCUM

[uintafly]

Sweet! :2thumbs:

[twotimer]

Huge area...they may have well called it the "Abajo Mountains Monument". I didn't look into it before today, but assumed that it would just cover the top end of Dark Canyon.

There's a lot of AWESOME backpacking and hiking in there, especially down by the river between Beef Basin and Dark Canyon. The road getting down to Fable Valley is quite rough...I wonder if they'll improve it? I hope not, as that area has a nice wilderness feel to it. It's usually quite sparse aside from the Sundance Trail.

I couldn't care less about possible oil, minerals and such...I just hope it isn't destroyed by too much visitation...just look at Coyote Gulch and the Escalante around Neon, all tore up.

[Scott P]

The road getting down to Fable Valley is quite rough...I wonder if they'll improve it?

Unlikely. If it's anything like the Grand Staircase, the opposite will be the case. Most of the roads there have become rougher, rather than improved.

PS, I don't know if the monument is the primary cause for the crowds at Neon and Coyote.

Coyote Gulch, Zion Narrows, and Buckskin/Paria all used to be perhaps the best known of the canyon hikesin Utah, but as soon as the Zion Narrows and Buckskin Paria became much more restrictive in the number of people that could go (permit system), visitation to Coyote Gulch skyrocketed.

[Iceaxe]

Get ready for the large crowds... Obama stuck a 'let's visit' bullseye on the area.

[Sombeech]

Sweet! :2thumbs:

Is there a particular benefit to creating this National Monument? Is it going to stop, or curb some ongoing environmental destruction to the area that we are not aware of? (and that somehow Obama is aware of)

[twotimer]

Coyote Gulch, Zion Narrows, and Buckskin/Paria all used to be perhaps the best known of the canyon hikesin Utah, but as soon as the Zion Narrows and Buckskin Paria became much more restrictive in the number of people that could go (permit system), visitation to Coyote Gulch skyrocketed.Yeah, I remember that, it was about the mid 90s...all of these things seemed to happen at the same time. With the exception of the Narrows and the Subway, Zion was a free for all.

Prior to that (the late 80s and early 90s, in my case) I would run into people from Europe (mostly Germany, it seemed) who would fly out, rent a car in Salt Lake and drive down for a touring extravaganza...those people aren't afraid to get away from the road, that's for sure. They all said the same thing...they saw pictures of the area and just had to come.

In regards to the roads around the Abajos...Sweet Alice, in particular...it appears that the Indians will be "managing" the new monument? If it were the county, I wouldn't expect much more than an occasional visit by a grader, which is what happens now. Perhaps I shouldn't expect the injuns to do much more than that, either.

[Scott P]

Get ready for the large crowds... Obama stuck a 'let's visit' bullseye on the area.

Isn't that what climb-utah does too? :wink:

[uintafly]

Is there a particular benefit to creating this National Monument? Is it going to stop, or curb some ongoing environmental destruction to the area that we are not aware of? (and that somehow Obama is aware of)

http://www.grandcanyontrust.org/sites/default/files/maps/uw_map_BearsEarsThreats.pdf

[Iceaxe]

Isn't that what climb-utah does too? :wink:
True... but I'm a pee shooter when it comes to targeting and a National Monument designation is an atomic bomb.

[Sombeech]

http://www.grandcanyontrust.org/sites/default/files/maps/uw_map_BearsEarsThreats.pdf
So those areas have oil drilling currently, and they will pack up and leave the area now?

Interesting.

[uintafly]

So those areas have oil drilling currently, and they will pack up and leave the area now?

Interesting.

I think you and I have different definitions of threats. Just because it isn't happening right now, doesn't mean there isn't a threat of it happening in the coming years. No one is currently trying to break into my house. But I still have locks on my doors.

[CanyonHawks]

I'm disappointed that the Bears Ears area was designated a national monument yesterday. This greatly increases the potential for the area to be loved to death and be the victim of ignorant tourists. I dearly love this area. I've hiked, backpacked, and descended many canyons in the area, I've explored the area on foot, in my truck, and on my ATV. I cut wood there for firewood. I stood on the top of one of the Bears Ears just a few months ago and watched the sunset. I seldom have seen many people there. That will be a thing of the past.

The proclamation establishes it as a monument but it will continue to be maintained by the same organizations (Forest Service and BLM) that were assigned to maintain it before the monument designation. The big difference is that it now publicizes the area and based on what has happened with other monuments that in turn increases visitation dramatically.

With increased visitation come more people traipsing where they should not, picking up and pocketing things (pottery, arrowheads, etc.) they should not, climbing where they should not, and leaving more garbage behind. I see more mis-management of the area - not improved management.

I see the following article as typical of what happens when the National Monument "target" gets assigned to an area - especially since there is never sufficient funding to truly "protect" and even more so because the monument is huge so it is simply too large and too remote to be policed and managed in a practical manner. Those who thought they were protecting the land have, in my opinion, doomed it to more damage and looting and along the way negatively impacted the lives and livelihoods of those who live in the area.

I see no winners in this proclamation except the recreation industry and a few leaders who will receive praise and gain from their "coup". Even those who tout the "tribal involvement" will come to understand that the tribal commissions role will only be that of suggestion and not management as they were promised.

https://psmag.com/the-heist-how-visitors-stole-a-national-monument-5f772c609db1#.9donsj8hf

[CanyonHawks]

Actually the "indians" will not be managing it. Here is the statement regarding that direct from the BLM' : "Honoring tribal expertise and traditional and historical knowledge, a Bears Ears Commission has been created that will enable tribes to share information and advice with federal land managers. While tribal input will be carefully and fully considered during such planning and management, the BLM and USFS retain ultimate authority over the monument."
https://www.blm.gov/programs/national-conservation-lands/national-monuments/utah/bears-ears/fast-facts

So input yes, management no - I know many in the Tribes thought they would get management and supported it for that reason. Won't be the first time the Government has made promises to the "indians" and then wiggled out of it.

[Brian in SLC]

Is there a particular benefit to creating this National Monument? Is it going to stop, or curb some ongoing environmental destruction to the area that we are not aware of? (and that somehow Obama is aware of)

Somehow? Did you read any of Rep Rob Bishop's proposed bill? Control of issuing oil and gas leases would have been turned over to the state of Utah is what I dimly recall.

I think the benefit was protection of the resource from potential future extraction industries.

Dunno. Can't decide if I was for or against this designation. Will be comparable to the Escalante situation, methinks.

I think we can all remember the "good ol' days" when our trailheads weren't as crowded. Increases in park visitation in Zion(s) has been staggering.

What will this do? I'm not sure. Anyone have any numbers on the impact to visitation pre and post monument in the Escalante?

As someone who recreates in these areas, I note that my experience pre and post monument status in the Escalante really hasn't changed much. Still the same ol' crowds in Peekaboo, Spooky. A few more vehicles parked at the Egypt trailhead. Some of that increase could be just from the increase in people canyoneering too.

According to the Great Old Broads website:

Again, if we look at Escalante as an example, a 2014 Headwaters Economics study found that the communities adjacent to GSENM experienced strong growth after the designation in 1996. That growth is in local health care and the tourism sector, which includes accommodations, food, arts, entertainment, and recreation. Overall wages for the region have climbed from $40.7 million to $61 million since 2001, and four key economic indicators—population, employment, personal income, and per capita income—all rose since the monument designation.

Will this follow for the towns bordering the Bears Ears? Will Fry Canyon Lodge re-open to serve that incredibly average to poor burger? Ha ha.

How will this effect Freeze fest?

Will Indian Creek get any more crowded with Colorado climbers?

What is interesting and somewhat historical, for climbers, is, that language in the designation referred specifically to rock climbing as a recognized activity. Canyoneering too! Wild times. We're the real deal now!

The area contains numerous objects of historic and of scientific interest, and it provides world class outdoor recreation opportunities, including rock climbing, hunting, hiking, backpacking, canyoneering, whitewater rafting, mountain biking, and horseback riding.

[jman]

What will this do? I'm not sure. Anyone have any numbers on the impact to visitation pre and post monument in the Escalante?

As someone who recreates in these areas, I note that my experience pre and post monument status in the Escalante really hasn't changed much. Still the same ol' crowds in Peekaboo, Spooky. A few more vehicles parked at the Egypt trailhead. Some of that increase could be just from the increase in people canyoneering too.



I'm in the same boat as you Brian with my pre and post experiences with GSENM.

In fact, I did email the BLM in Escalante last night (due to a ongoing Facebook discussion) to specifically ask for those numbers as my google searching can't find anything reliable.

I'll report back if I get a response from them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scott P]

Visitation has increased in the Grand Staircase, but from what I have seen, no more than in other non-monument areas. In fact, visitation seems to have increased a lot less at Grand Staircase than many non-monument areas such as the San Rafael Swell, Robbers Roost, or North Wash, for example.

Guidebooks and the internet have had more of an impact in increasing visitation in the Grand Staircase than the monument has, at least in the areas far from the paved roads.

The biggest problem I see with the monument is that while the president declares the monument, congress funds it. I don't see congress doing much in this regard. So there may be a big monument, but if it isn't funded, I wonder what will become of it?

[kiwi_outdoors]

unfunded = very few rangers, no new site improvements (potties, campsites, signage etc) - its ok if they don't close any 2-rack access or similar roads. As older (65 years) hikers my wife and I don't do 17 mile round trips days any more, we would like to still have rough road access to trailheads.

[Iceaxe]

For better or worse ATV tracks usually take a big hit anytime an area is tagged with something like Monument status. I expect over the next 10 years the ATV tracks in Cedar Mesa will take a big hit.

[jman]

Since a part of Comb Ridge which is now in the National Monument, was recently sold to the Lyman Family Farm Inc. I did some quick google searching on them and found some interesting purchases:

- They bought acres of land in Comb Ridge, which contains no water or good grazing land for the family "farm"
- They bought hundreds of acres outside of Tropic and Bryce Canyon NP recently.
- In Oct. 2016 they bought 200 acres in Cave Valley (adjacent to Zion National Park), but thankfully they are keeping the slot canyons there open which is part of the agreement.
- This is the same Lyman that lead the ATV protest ride through Recapture Canyon.
- I'm sure there are more, but that's just from a quick google search.

It just seems odd to me... and maybe there isn't a conspiracy theory but their choice of lands do raise eyebrows.

Edit/Update: Ha! I guess I wasn't the only one who thought this "Farm" was interesting. Looks like the Salt Lake Tribune did a report on them back in November 2016. http://www.sltrib.com/home/4536249-155/family-farm-has-spent-millions-buying

[middlefork]

For better or worse ATV tracks usually take a big hit anytime an area is tagged with something like Monument status. I expect over the next 10 years the ATV tracks in Cedar Mesa will take a big hit.

Too bad.That is one of the least abused areas I have ever been in.

For better or worse most organizations believe the only way to gain support for preservation is to publicize the area so more people "care" about it.

As for Family Farms, looks like they are playing a win - win. The areas they are buying are prime for development as popularity increases.

[Brian in SLC]

From the T-Dawg:

http://t-dawgspeaks.blogspot.com/

Also of interest for the canyoneers is after his post about the Bear's Ears, is the New Zealand stuff.

[rockgremlin]

From the T-Dawg:

http://t-dawgspeaks.blogspot.com/



That's about the most left leaning article I've read all year...and it's December 30th.

Here's the Readers Digest version:

Obama is wise and all knowing. Republican Utah leaders are drooling idiots.

[uintafly]

That's about the most left leaning article I've read all year...and it's December 30th.

Here's the Readers Digest version:

Obama is wise and all knowing. Republican Utah leaders are drooling idiots.

Wow! If that's the most left leaning article you've read this year, I'm guessing you don't venture too far from foxnews.

By the way, what points do you disagree with?

[Brian in SLC]

That's about the most left leaning article I've read all year...and it's December 30th.

Here's the Readers Digest version:

Obama is wise and all knowing. Republican Utah leaders are drooling idiots.

QFT!

Ha ha.

I guess you picked up on his opening sentence?

Well, it happened: President Obama created the Bear’s Ears National Monument yesterday! For us bleeding heart lib’ral extremist tree huggin, granola-eatin’ wackos we heartily raised our too-expensive locally-brewed craft ales in a toast to this needed move.

He did address each one of their talking points. Maybe you could do the same with your opinion?

Or, would you agree that they are drooling idiots (especially when it comes to discussing the Bear's Ears)?

[rockgremlin]

You know, I spent a good deal of time scouring the internets trying to find an objective article about this issue, addressing both sides of the debate in a respectful, intelligent manner.

I'm still looking...

Tdog's article didn't address much of anything objectively. Although it did shower praise all over Obama's unilateral land grab.

Generally, I oppose any sweeping unilateral executive action. I opposed George W's unilateral invasion of Iraq, Clinton's unilateral land grab of GSNM, and now Obama's unilateral land grab of the Bear's Ears.

[qedcook]

Permits for the Black Hole will be required within 5 years? Yea or nay? I hope not.

[Udink]

Permits for the Black Hole will be required within 5 years? Yea or nay? I hope not.
Two years tops.

[Brian in SLC]

Permits for the Black Hole will be required within 5 years? Yea or nay? I hope not.

Nay. Look at all the permits required for Escalante canyons...none.

What'll be interesting is the growing pains. The ATV thing ala Recapture Canyon.

Crazy history in the Escalante that seems to have settled out. Was a period when the BLM was closing trails with signs and the local sheriff was pulling them up and leaving them on the BLM's doorstep. Locals were signing even silly road drainage cuts as viable roads. That RS 2477 fight. Been unusually quiet for the last couple of years. Maybe both sides lost steam and common sense finally prevailed.

[Scott P]

Permits for the Black Hole will be required within 5 years? Yea or nay? I hope not.

I'd say probably not, but the local Sheriff has been trying to get access closed to that hike for several years now.

[Iceaxe]

FYI - all references to the Black Hole hike and trailheads have been erased. You can still pull off the road and park at both the upper and lower trailheads, but all signage and the kiosk have been removed. Much of the large upper trailhead parking has been reclaimed and all the fire rings have been removed and erased. In other words there is nothing left to identify the trailheads other than a wide spot in the highway.

[qedcook]

I'll bet most of the canyons won't require a permit, but the Black Hole, maybe it will. I agree (and hope) the government red tape will end up being similar to Escalante (the less the better). I do hate how bad the roads end up being maintained by the government though.

[accadacca]

FYI - all references to the Black Hole hike and trailheads have been erased. You can still pull off the road and park at both the upper and lower trailheads, but all signage and the kiosk have been removed. Much of the large upper trailhead parking has been reclaimed and all the fire rings have been removed and erased. In other words there is nothing left to identify the trailheads other than a wide spot in the highway.

Huh? Why?

[Iceaxe]

Poor roads are a way of limiting access. My experience with most national parks and monuments is they attempt to herd 90% of the population into 10% of the area as it makes things much easier and cheaper to manage.

[rockgremlin]

Huh? Why?

Cuts down on SAR callouts, among other things.

[Scott P]

FYI - all references to the Black Hole hike and trailheads have been erased.

I assume that the sign that says "Do Not Hike the Black Hole" is still there?

[Iceaxe]

The sign of death halfway down the approach canyon is still there.

I'd be curious to know if removing the trailheads cut down on SAR. I'd almost be willing to bet they would increase SAR from hikers entering the wrong drainage and getting cliffed out.

[kiwi_outdoors]

Poor roads are a way of limiting access. My experience with most national parks and monuments is they attempt to herd 90% of the population into 10% of the area as it makes things much easier and cheaper to manage.
Then they gripe about over-use and over-crowding.

[Scott P]

FYI - all references to the Black Hole hike and trailheads have been erased. You can still pull off the road and park at both the upper and lower trailheads, but all signage and the kiosk have been removed. Much of the large upper trailhead parking has been reclaimed and all the fire rings have been removed and erased. In other words there is nothing left to identify the trailheads other than a wide spot in the highway.


Huh? Why?


The sign of death halfway down the approach canyon is still there.

I'd be curious to know if removing the trailheads cut down on SAR. I'd almost be willing to bet they would increase SAR from hikers entering the wrong drainage and getting cliffed out.

I believe it’s more than SAR that is the issue. There have been some SAR rescues in the Black Hole, but unless things have changed very recently, the San Juan County Sheriff’s Office is quite hostile towards hikers and canyoneers. The office views them all as “environmental wackos”. So, the San Juan County Sheriff’s Office is known for removing trailhead signs for hikers and canyoneers while at the same time posting designated ATV trail signs in closed areas such as the Glen Canyon National Recreation Area.

And no, I’m not joking or trying to be funny; nor is this merely speculation.

[accadacca]

I saw this old thread in the "similar threads" section below: http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?61286-Economics-and-National-Monuments

[accadacca]

More restrictions like this will be coming...

85603

[jman]

Good job Utah conservatives. YOU did this.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4784759-155/new-private-owners-block-road-to

If you are a conservative and support this - shame on you.

I'm furious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[madsjim]

Jman, follow the links in the article. Although they must allow the easement, they only shutdown access to about 100 yards of unmaintaned road (it appears to be no more than an ATV trail). The public areas accesed by the locked off section are still accessible through the Butler Wash road.

This has nothing to do conservative politics and is quite tame. No need to make it more than it is considering that the article points out that the the easement requires it remain open and the county is working on opening it back up.

[jman]

Jman, follow the links in the article. Although they must allow the easement, they only shutdown access to about 100 yards of unmaintaned road (it appears to be no more than an ATV trail). The public areas accesed by the locked off section are still accessible through the Butler Wash road.

This has nothing to do conservative politics and is quite tame. No need to make it more than it is considering that the article points out that the the easement requires it remain open and the county is working on opening it back up.

I did.

And sure it's not the end all and you are right as it is "tame", as you say.

And yes, the easement allows for continued access. But here's the thing that kills me with private sells, (especially in pristine areas) once it's in private hands...it's gone forever.

Just curious madsjim, have you visited this particular area? I did about 4 months ago and it's a shame i can get a trespassing ticket in the desert now.

It's one to thing have pit toilets or fenced off areas in areas that I like, heck I can even deal with huge crowds, but to block of access completely due to a private sell, something is wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[uintafly]

I did.

And sure it's not the end all and you are right as it is "tame", as you say.

And yes, the easement allows for continued access. But here's the thing that kills me with private sells, (especially in pristine areas) once it's in private hands...it's gone forever.

Just curious madsjim, have you visited this particular area? I did about 4 months ago and it's a shame i can get a trespassing ticket in the desert now.

It's one to thing have pit toilets or fenced off areas in areas that I like, heck I can even deal with huge crowds, but to block of access completely due to a private sell, something is wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Private sells account for about 75% of the reason I oppose any federal lands being turned over to the state. If the state had their way, this would be a drop in the bucket.

[accadacca]

Rep. Chaffetz Vows To Investigate Utah Park's Tweet Welcoming Bears Ears Monument

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170223/4f21e10553e8ee3ef393b9a8c7993b80.jpg

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jason-chaffetz-bears-ears-tweet-probe-us_us_58acc6a8e4b03d80af70717b?ncid=engmodushpmg00 000003

[Brian in SLC]

More restrictions like this will be coming...

Based on what?

And, what part of that do you find overly restrictive?

Did you notice an increase in restrictions after GSENM? And, if so, what were they?

What part of the Executive Order drives the restrictions that you refer to?

Are you planning on getting involved in the new management plan for the monument?

[devo_stevo]

Rep. Chaffetz Vows To Investigate Utah Park's Tweet Welcoming Bears Ears Monument

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170223/4f21e10553e8ee3ef393b9a8c7993b80.jpg

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jason-chaffetz-bears-ears-tweet-probe-us_us_58acc6a8e4b03d80af70717b?ncid=engmodushpmg00 000003Freaking stupid that this is even an issue. What the hell is wrong with this world that everyone needs to get so upset over things that totally don't matter while completely ignoring all of the problems staring us in the face. So what if the rangers at Bryce Canyon saved a spot for the maps of the area long before it became official.

This drives me crazy.

[hank moon]

Freaking stupid that this is even an issue. What the hell is wrong with this world that everyone needs to get so upset over things that totally don't matter while completely ignoring all of the problems staring us in the face. So what if the rangers at Bryce Canyon saved a spot for the maps of the area long before it became official.

This drives me crazy.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4967844-155/chaffetz-probes-bryce-canyon-tweet-welcoming


Chaffetz said in an interview that the questions about Bryce Canyon's tweet are at the "very bottom of the list" of investigations he's launched as oversight committee chairman, but he noted he couldn't ignore the message from the national park because it could indicate the Obama White House misled Utah's elected officials.


"Maybe they were just hopeful," Chaffetz said, "but they regularly complain about lack of resources and more money for maintenance budgets and this is a small item but I want to know if there was communication and were they being truthful with the governor and the delegation."

[devo_stevo]

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4967844-155/chaffetz-probes-bryce-canyon-tweet-welcoming


Chaffetz said in an interview that the questions about Bryce Canyon's tweet are at the "very bottom of the list" of investigations he's launched as oversight committee chairman, but he noted he couldn't ignore the message from the national park because it could indicate the Obama White House misled Utah's elected officials.


"Maybe they were just hopeful," Chaffetz said, "but they regularly complain about lack of resources and more money for maintenance budgets and this is a small item but I want to know if there was communication and were they being truthful with the governor and the delegation."Right. So if HE wants to know, don't waste the tax payer's time and money on this. Maybe just try being a nice guy and ask them (it sounds like he already did that), then take their word for it.

This is a non-issue, and honestly should just be ignored. Nobody was hurt and there is no scandal here.

[Iceaxe]

Chaffetz should be kicked in the nuts for even attempting to make this an issue.

/end discussion

[Brian in SLC]

Chaffetz should be kicked in the nuts for even attempting to make this an issue.

/end discussion

It sounds like your advocating violence against a United States Congressman.

The rest of us bused in out-of-staters just yelled at him to do his job.

Ha ha.

[accadacca]

Based on what?

And, what part of that do you find overly restrictive?

Did you notice an increase in restrictions after GSENM? And, if so, what were they?

What part of the Executive Order drives the restrictions that you refer to?

Are you planning on getting involved in the new management plan for the monument?

Nothing in particular here, although I don't like to carry my own poo. [emoji85]

Things I find restrictive are permits. [emoji24]

[Scott P]

Things I find restrictive are permits. http://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji24.png

With the exception of the Black Hole and the Natural Bridges National Monument hikes you already have to get a permit to go to the popular canyons on the Cedar Mesa (now Bears Ears NM). The permit system came before the monument and has been in effect for years. I wouldn't expect much to change in this regard, though it is possible that the Black Hole could require one sometime in the future (which is still preferable to the county sheriff's wishes to close the whole thing).

[Brian in SLC]

Nothing in particular here, although I don't like to carry my own poo.

Ditto that! But, I do it.

Rest stop pit stop what ev's. Makes it easy.

But (or, is that "butt"), I've done numerous overnighters in the Escalante and not had to. Ditto canyons I've done in Cedar Mesa that require permits.

The Escalante has a sign out at the trailhead thing. Perfect. Easy. I don't have to go to the visitor's center and wait in line. No impact to me.

Indian Creek has had more restrictive camping permits (effecting climbers) for some time now. They (we) adjust. I don't anticipate any change to that with a monument designation.

I worked on a planning committee years ago with Ralph Becker with regard to Indian Creek. Fun process.

[jman]

Not that it matters too much at this point, but the Salt Lake City County Mayor recently said that the OR show won't be bailing on the contract (they tried). So that means they will be here all of 2018 too.

So 2019 is when they will be at their new home...(until they come back a few years later).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[accadacca]

"If you're giving me an ultimatum here on the phone, then the answer is I guess we're going to have to part ways," the governor told executives from some of the major companies in the show during a conference call.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=43328857&nid=148&title=facing-ultimatum-in-outdoor-retailer-call-herbert-said-state-and-trade-show-must-part-ways

Comment from Facebook:
The state of Utah, 66% is federal land. It is the third highest in the country, following only Alaska and Nevada. Colorado is less than 23% and Ct, I think is less than 3%. So, I wrote three of the companies, I gave them these facts and suggested that they were, based on the facts and their letters which stated that Utah wasn't supporting federal lands, that they were very incorrect. They didn't care. They answered, but they still, even with the facts, persist in their dishonesty. Utahans, and those like me who love Utah, should be writing to the companies and let them know that we can see through their dishonesty, or at best, lack of logic.

[Scott P]

Comment from Facebook:
The state of Utah, 66% is federal land. It is the third highest in the country, following only Alaska and Nevada. Colorado is less than 23% and Ct, I think is less than 3%. So, I wrote three of the companies, I gave them these facts and suggested that they were, based on the facts and their letters which stated that Utah wasn't supporting federal lands, that they were very incorrect. They didn't care. They answered, but they still, even with the facts, persist in their dishonesty. Utahans, and those like me who love Utah, should be writing to the companies and let them know that we can see through their dishonesty, or at best, lack of logic.

The above is actually dishonest. Colorado is actually 36% public land, but the eastern 1/3 of the state is pancake flat and has almost no public land.

It is also worth mentioning that per capita, Utah actually has more private land per person than most states. Only some of the less populated states such as Idaho, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Montana, and a few others have more private land per capita.

Also, people always say that it is unfair that Utah has all this public land, while the eastern states have little. This is indeed true, but if you hate public land so much, why not just move back east?