La Nina is here, may last through winter

[accadacca]

Government weather forecasters predict La Niña could bring a chilly winter to the region, and that it could last until February.

http://kutv.com/news/nation-world/weather-forecast-la-nina-is-here-may-last-through-winter-11-12-2016

[rockgremlin]

Well it sure is off to a slow start. Been walking around in t-shirt and shorts since the summer, and this week the forecast says it'll get up to 71 degrees here in Cedar. That's a pretty warm November IMO.

[2065toyota]

Hopefully it starts snowing soon

[BruteForce]

Unreal, but nice weather this year. I just spent a week at Temple Mountain where day time temps *FELT* like 90F.. Shorts & T-Shirt all day (until the sun went down). I hear we're getting our first freeze this Thursday with day time high's in the low 40's..

[accadacca]

WARM before the STORM???? :cold:

--

2016 on track for hottest year on record

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[uintafly]

WARM before the STORM???? :cold:

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2016 on track for hottest year on record

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Good thing our new EPA chief will be a climate change denier. oh wait.

[2065toyota]

Climate change

Of course there is climate change and there always has been climate change. Look at the history of Earth, with or without human interaction.



I'm more annoyed by the term climate change than global warming. Climate change can mean just about anything

[rockgremlin]

Climate change

Of course there is climate change and there always has been climate change. Look at the history of Earth, with or without human interaction.

Yeah, but the most recent climate change is solely attributable to humans. Coal fired power plants are the primary source of the problem. Not solar flares, not volcanic activity, not sun spots or cow farts, it's all anthropogenic, and it's all because of the burning of fossil fuels.

Al Gore and Michael Moore said so.

But then again...Gore promised back in 2009 that the "...North Pole would be completely ice-free by 2013 as a result of man-made global warming..."

Now, it's been forever since I visited the North Pole, so I can't refute this claim. Can anybody else fill me in on whether or not this is true? Is the North Pole truly ice free? Did Santa convert his snow sleigh into an SUV?

[Scott P]

Is the North Pole truly ice free?

No, but it got very close this year in September.


Did Santa convert his snow sleigh into an SUV?

Even if it did melt, there is no land even close to the North Pole . The nearest land is 440 miles away and the ocean depth under the North Pole is about 14,000 feet. What good would an SUV do?


(PS, just answering your specific questions, not starting a debate).

[2065toyota]

"Those questions are being hotly debated by the world’s climate scientists as global leaders prepare for the UN climate talks (http://www.cop21.gouv.fr/en)in Paris at the end of this month. Now, a new study (http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/igsoc/jog/pre-prints/content-ings_jog_15j071;jsessionid=1anx3bgc84sg6.alexandra ) by a team of NASA climate scientists has sparked controversy by reporting that “Antarctica is actually gaining ice.”

Scientists concluded in the Journal of Glaciology that the loss of glacier mass in Antarctica’s western region is being offset by thickening of glaciers on the continent’s eastern interior, which has experienced increased snowfall. The result: A net gain of about 100 billion tons of ice per year, according to the report."

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/11/151103-antarctic-ice-growing-shrinking-glaciers-climate-change/

[2065toyota]

I'm not necessarily agreeing or denying anything, but with how the media operates and all the bullcrap all time, how do we ever know what is true and what to believe anymore. Statistics can be skewed to prove about anything. I really just have to ride the middle of the road on most items.

[Scott P]

I'm not necessarily agreeing or denying anything

Actually, what you pointed out is true. At this time, Antarctica has gained some ice in several places.

While not tropical, the North Pole is a much warmer place than Antarctica. It wouldn't take much warming to melt the ice at the North Pole.

For the South Pole though, it would take a long time to melt the ice except around the fringes. In fact, it would likely take hundreds, perhaps thousands of years even if it did warm continuously. As far as Antarctica becoming ice free, that is incredibly unlikely anytime soon. It is really only the ice around the fringes of the continent that might melt. Anyone (including the media) claiming that Antarctica will be ice free soon really doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

At the South Pole for example, the warmest it has ever gotten is 10F on 12/25/2011. It would take a heat wave 22 degrees warmer than that even to reach freezing.

The ice in the interior of Antartica is not in danger of melting anytime soon (and if it did it would be due to a huge catastrophe, such as a giant asteroid).

Actually, the ice melting at the North Pole isn't going to affect sea level either, since it's only floating sea water that happens to be frozen. Scientists just use it as a gauge and the melting sea ice poses no danger (except to Polar Bears of course).

The worry among some isn't the sea ice, it's the melting of the mid latitude glaciers which provide water and the rise is sea level due to the melting on the fringes of the ice caps.

Of course warming is actually going to benefit some areas of the world, while being a detriment to others.

[rockgremlin]

I'm not necessarily agreeing or denying anything, but with how the media operates and all the bullcrap all time, how do we ever know what is true and what to believe anymore. Statistics can be skewed to prove about anything. I really just have to ride the middle of the road on most items.

I'm a middle rider myself. :mrgreen:

In college, I wrote two term papers about global warming. One was in opposition to it, and the other argued in it's defence. The most significant lesson I took away from that was that it's pretty easy to supposedly prove either side of the debate using the data and statistics currently available.

As a general rule, getting reliable, unbiased information from the media is next to impossible as the media are far from experts in the field, plus they sell more papers by catastrophizing dire climate scenarios. And there's a lot of money to be made by claiming an imminent global threat will wipe out the planet unless we take drastic action right now.

There's a pretty good book out on the subject - The Skeptical Environmentalist, by Bjorn Lomborg, a former member of Greenpeace.

[rockgremlin]

Even if it did melt, there is no land even close to the North Pole . The nearest land is 440 miles away and the ocean depth under the North Pole is about 14,000 feet. What good would an SUV do?

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:lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

[Scott P]

As a general rule, getting reliable, unbiased information from the media is next to impossible as the media are far from experts in the field, plus they sell more papers by catastrophizing dire climate scenarios

This is true, but the real debate should be whether global warming would have a positive or a negative effect and to which reasons would each effect be assigned. It is stupid to make it a partisan issue.

Don't use the media/news or politicians for the answers.

For those that don't believe in global warming or who are unsure, here's a quick homework assignment that does not involve any news or politicians.

Mercury is the closest planet to the sun, but Venus is hotter. Why is this?

[rockgremlin]

<waving my hand frantically in the air> Oooooh! Pick me! Pick me!

Scott P <shaking head, rolling eyes> Ok, Rockgremlin. What is it?

<dropping my hand, slightly blushing> B'cuz Mercury has a very thin atmosphere, and Venus has a very thick atmosphere, comprised almost entirely of carbon dioxide...

[2065toyota]

And then I read this................


The Senate voted this week on whether Climate Change is real or a hoax, I think it’s a hoax and here’s why.
I’m sure you’ve heard in the news that 2014 was supposed to be the hottest year ever. If it actually was “hottest year ever” you’d think all the terrible calamities that are supposed to happen would be happening now but instead the opposite is happening.
1. Record Ice
In 2014 there was record sea ice in Antarctica (http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-new-record-maximum/#.VMKSnXZCZHA)in fact a global warming expedition got stuck in it (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/25/antarctic-expedition-stranded-as-ship-gets-stuck-in-ice). Arctic sea ice has also made a nice comeback in 2014 (http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/). The Great lakes had record ice Lake Superior only had 3 ice free months in 2014 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/ice-visible-lake-superior-weeks-ahead-schedule/story?id=26939239). You’d think that in the hottest year ever that ice would be melting like Al Gore said (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/wrong-al-gore-predicted-arctic-summer-ice-could-disappear-2013).
2. Record Snow
2014 saw record snowfall (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/12/04/fall-snow-cover-in-northern-hemisphere-was-most-extensive-on-record-even-with-temperatures-at-high-mark/) in many areas, remember when they said that global warming would cause snow to disappear and children won’t know what snow is (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/12/04/fall-snow-cover-in-northern-hemisphere-was-most-extensive-on-record-even-with-temperatures-at-high-mark/).
3. Record Cold
In 2014 we saw all kinds of cold records (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/wrong-al-gore-predicted-arctic-summer-ice-could-disappear-2013)remember the Polar Vortex? (http://m4gw.com/i-cant-wait-for-polar-vortex-the-movie/) You’d think that we’d be breaking all kinds of heat records in “the hottest year ever”
4. Oceans Are Rising Much Less Than Predicted

Al Gore predicted that oceans would rise 20 feet by 2100, it looks like were on track for about a foot. 80% of the tide gauges show less rise than the official “global average”. Many tide gauges show no rise in sea level (http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/stations/437.php), and almost none show any acceleration over the past 20 years.
5. Polar Bears Are Thriving
You’d think that Polar Bears would really be in trouble in 2014 “the hottest year ever” but they are thriving (http://polarbearscience.com/2014/11/19/polar-bear-researchers-knew-s-beaufort-population-continued-to-increase-up-to-2012/).
6. Moose Are Making A Comeback
A few years ago the moose population in Minnesota dropped rapidly and they immediately blamed global warming (http://www.treehugger.com/endangered-species/moose-are-dying-climate-change.html), then they did a study (http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2014/11/17/study-impact-wolves-minnesota-moose-greater-expected/) and found out it was actually wolves that were killing the moose. Wolves have been taken off the endangered species list and are now endangering other species so they opened a wolf hunting season in Minnesota and the moose are coming back. It turns out it had nothing to do with global warming (http://m4gw.com/on-migrating-moose-and-migrating-temperature-trends/) in fact the years when the moose population declined were some very cold ones (http://m4gw.com/is-global-warming-killing-the-moose-in-minnesota-i-dont-think-so/).
7. 99% of Scientists don’t believe in Catastrophic Man-Made Global Warming

You’ve probably heard over and over that 99% of scientist believe in global warming well the opposite is true. (http://m4gw.com/99-of-scientists-dont-believe-in-global-warming/) That talking point came from a study where only 75 scientists said they believe (http://www.globalclimatescam.com/opinion/top-ten-reasons-climate-change-is-a-hoax/icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/that_97_solution_again/)in global warming on the other hand over 31,000 scientists have signed a petition (http://www.petitionproject.org/) saying they don’t believe in Catastrophic Man-Made Global Warming.
8. Nature produces much more CO2 than man

In 2014 NASA finally launched a satellite that measures CO2 levels around the globe. They assumed that most of the CO2 would be coming from the industrialized northern hemisphere but much to their surprise it was coming from the rainforests in South America (http://m4gw.com/new-nasa-satellite-data-flips-climate-science-on-its-head/), Africa and China.
9. It Isn’t Actually the Warmest Year.

If you look at the satellite data 2014 was not the warmest year ever (http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/12/satellite-data-says-2014-actually-wasnt-the-warmest-on-record/) in fact there has been no global warming for over 18 years. The Reason they can say it’s the warmest year is because they are using the ground weather station data which is heavily influenced by the Urban Heat Island effect, many of which are near pavement (http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php). Even still they had to cherry pick that data to get at the warmest year ever and it is only the warmest by only two-100ths of a degree (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/01/21/2014-among-the-3-percent-coldest-years-in-10000-years/) within a dataset that has a variability of a half of a degree. The fact they they had to ignore accurate data and fudge sketchy data to push their agenda proves (IMHO) that climate change is a hoax.
10. The Hypocrisy of the Main Players

One of the main reasons you can tell that global warming is a hoax is that the main purveyors of global warming live lifestyles opposite of what they preach, they all own multiple large homes and yachts and they fly around the world in private jets pushing their propaganda. Not to mention some people such as Al Gore actually profit from Carbon Taxes and other green energy laws. If they actually believed what they preached they would be leading quite different lives.

[rockgremlin]

^^^ Oh damn. The gauntlet has been dropped. Many of these are definitely valid points. Some of these I am a little skeptical of...like #7. I always thought the general scientific consensus was in favor of the global warming theory. Especially organizations like NASA and the IPCC. For example: http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

[2065toyota]

But at the same time, I read articles that talk about the exact opposite and make me totally believe we are responsible for 'climate change'. I don't think I'm going to post anymore on this thread as I'm sure that I don't have the knowledge to make any more than a statement or an assumption. Thanks for all the good info and thoughts. I am open minded, but definitely not naive. :cheers:

[rockgremlin]

C'mon man, don't stop posting. I like your enthusiasm. I was 100% certain GW was a hoax until I dug a little deeper. Here's my uncensored, no-holds-barred opinion:

1. Does GW exist? Probably

2. Is GW anthropomorphic? I'm skeptical. I want to say yes but there is very good science that suggests otherwise.

3. Can we do anything about it? Not really. Until we can figure out a way to drive our cars without requiring oil and gas and power our major cities without coal, we're going to continue dumping massive amounts of carbon into the atmosphere. And I don't foresee us kicking fossil fuels to the curb anytime soon, so the status quo should continue for a while.

[2065toyota]

I always have good enthusiasm, but are my opinions correct or not. I worry way more about global over population that I do of global warming

Anyone that hasn't watch this short video needs to. Especially those that think we are actually helping anyting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

[accadacca]

GW is bringing snow to Northern Utah tonight. Bring on the madness. :snowcloud:

[Scott P]

GW is bringing snow to Northern Utah tonight. Bring on the madness. :snowcloud:

It's about frigging time. I have never seen the mountains around here completely bare of snow this late in the year.