BSA Rappelling Certification

[DiscGo]

I have been doing a BSA course this week for rappelling. I really didn't know how much I belonged on @Deathcricket (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=278)'s "Z-Crew" before now. I have always gone rappelling with as few of knots possible but this course is all about knots, and numbers (so far).

Here are the notes from the BSA Course Test:

Knots:
• Water knot
• Figure 8 knots
o Figure 8
o Double Figure 8
o Finished up in a Yosemite
• Prusiks
• Munter Hitch
• Mule Hitch
• Alpine Butterfly
• Tied Harness

Setup:
• Top Belay
• Fireman’s Belay
• Z-Rig Rescue Setup

Edge:


Explain
Demonstrate
Guide
Enable


Check:


Clothes
Harness, Helmet, Hair
Environment
Connections
Knots


Earnest
• Equalized. Develop each anchoring system so the load is distributed as equally as possible among all the anchor points. That will reduce the strain on a given point and reduce the chances of any of the points failing.
• Angle. Keep the angle less than 90 degrees between the outside legs of the anchor system, unless the anchoring system is designed for larger angles. Belay cable systems with 10 percent drape form much larger angles but are designed to withstand much higher forces.
• Redundant. All anchors must be fail-safe or backed up. If you have even the slightest suspicion that an anchor is anything but completely reliable, build enough redundancy into the system so that the failure of an anchor will not imperil a climber, rappeller, or belayer.
• No extension. If an anchor point fails, the anchor system will not extend and be shock loaded.
• Solid. Anchors must be reliable. There is no room for compromise. Take all the time you need to do the job right. If you are unsure of your expertise, find someone who is qualified to provide guidance.
• Timely. Use your time wisely and efficiently. Send staff ahead to set up so that the program is ready to go when the participants arrive. Watch the weather


Random:
• The breaking strength of carabiners must be 5,000 pounds
• Static pulley doesn’t help but a moving pulley does
• 6 minutes of staying still on rope can be lethal. Must encourage stuck rappeller to keep their legs moving regularly to prevent blockage.

[kiwi_outdoors]

back when I took the course a decade ago - you could not let a scout rap by his own hand+ATC (or equal) unless you had a second line on him for safety

is that still the requirement?

[DiscGo]

back when I took the course a decade ago - you could not let a scout rap by his own hand+ATC (or equal) unless you had a second line on him for safety

is that still the requirement?

Yes. They wanted us to always have two lines with the possibility for 2 more in case we need an emergency line. The instructor said that if we don't have space for a 3rd line, we probably shouldn't be taking the scouts there.

[bigskydryfly]

I have been doing a BSA course this week for rappelling. I really didn't know how much I belonged on Deathcricket's "Z-Crew" before now. I have always gone rappelling with the fews knots possible but this course is all about knots, and numbers (so far).

Has anyone else been through this course? If so, do you still have any of your old notes? :)
I took the BSA climb cert class a year and a half ago. Don't know what notes you need, but happy to check. Also, our instructor was absolute on running twin lines (keeping one for a rescue line), but made no mention of a third. I wonder if this is BSA policy or instructor pet doctrine.

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[kiwi_outdoors]

since BSA is paranoid - they should outlaw ATC style descenders and insist on using a caver's rack - its far safer.

[bigskydryfly]

ATC on single strand is okay as long as there is a second strand/rope rigged for potential rescue. BSA does require a belay be in place. Level2 certified rigging rappel & Level1 at the bottom.

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[DiscGo]

The BSA apparently does not allow the usage of a figure 8 and recommends ATCs for rappelling. When I mentioned how dangerous that is for canyoneering and general rappels I was told (in a kind and realistic manner) that the BSA doesn't really recognize Canyoneering as an activity and their training is really meant more for climbing and more traditional rappelling.

It has been kind of funny because my canyoneering skills have not translated very well to the climbing instructor course. I have felt pretty remedial in this course but most of what they are teaching us is not super applicable to canyoneering.

Overall though, it has still been a good course. My only complaint is that I wish I had not done it this year because it is over Fall Break and that is lame :)

[Iceaxe]

It has been kind of funny because my canyoneering skills have not translated very well to the climbing instructor course. I have felt pretty remedial in this course but most of what they are teaching us is not super applicable to canyoneering.

Take comfort in knowing the reverse is also true. Experienced climbers entering canyoneering are canyon novice. The good news for those with experience is when switching sports the learning curve is not nearly as steep. Knowledge with things like knots and belays are directly transferable.

[kiwi_outdoors]

The BSA apparently does not allow the usage of a figure 8 and recommends ATCs for rappelling. When I mentioned how dangerous that is for canyoneering and general rappels I was told (in a kind and realistic manner) that the BSA doesn't really recognize Canyoneering as an activity and their training is really meant more for climbing and more traditional rappelling.

It has been kind of funny because my canyoneering skills have not translated very well to the climbing instructor course. I have felt pretty remedial in this course but most of what they are teaching us is not super applicable to canyoneering.

Overall though, it has still been a good course. My only complaint is that I wish I had not done it this year because it is over Fall Break and that is lame :)
not recognize - then how did those Utah scouts get into trouble in a canyon a few years ago?

[DiscGo]

not recognize - then how did those Utah scouts get into trouble in a canyon a few years ago?

A fair amount of our classroom training has been about liability. Essentially the BSA's policy is that they can't tell the units what to do but they can encourage and discourage activities. Ultimately each unit (Troop) makes its own decisions and is liable as such. So the BSA encourages climbing and rappelling but does not take a position on Canyoneering other than the Unit's being responsible for their own decisions, and that you essentially should not take unnecessary risks / take the boys any place unnecessarily dangerous.

[DiscGo]

I updated the original notes to include the main information you need for passing the classroom portion of the exam.

[Scott P]

The BSA apparently does not allow the usage of a figure 8 and recommends ATCs for rappelling. When I mentioned how dangerous that is for canyoneering and general rappelling

The ATC is dangerous for canyoneering and rapelling? It isn'the any more dangerous than other methods unless you make a serious mistake. All methods of rapelling are dangerous if you make a mistake.

[kiwi_outdoors]

rsik managers. :-(

BSA policy on rope monkey bridges was no higher than three ft above the ground in case of a fall.

[DiscGo]

The ATC is dangerous for canyoneering and repelling? It isn'the any more dangerous than other methods unless you make a serious mistake.

Agree to disagree. An ATC does not allow for adding friction or tying off the way a Pirana, Critr, Totem, etc. does (or at least not nearly was easily).