Hard Day Harvey Beta

[qedcook]

How does going over the narrow stuff in Hard Day Harvey compare to going over the narrow stuff in Alcatraz or Middle Leprechaun?

Thanks in advance.

[Iceaxe]

I'd say the skill set to do HDH is comparable to Alcatraz and Middle Leprechaun. You might get forced a little higher in HDH in a couple of spots, but I was never forced up to the point I felt a slip and I would die. I've done HDH before with a couple of smurfs and I'm not sure they ever came off the canyon floor, so it's certainly one of the fat guys go higher and get worked harder canyons. HDH is definitely a reasonable progression after doing Alcatraz and Middle Leprechaun.

[qedcook]

I thought Middle Lep was definitely tougher than Alcatraz, at least for going higher at the narrow spots. Is it as tough as Middle Lep? Tougher?

[Iceaxe]

It's been a while since I last did HDH, but as I remember the skinnies come and go so it's different than Lep. HDH doesn't shred my gear like Lep, but you do have to climb more and a little higher. I never really considered Alcatraz to be much of a problem as I always stay high when in question so I'm never climbing, just moving laterally or down. In places HDH is a little easier than Lep and in places it's a little more difficult, it's just different. I'd say anyone that can do Alcatraz and Middle Leprechaun confidently can do HDH. It's hard to compare one canyon to another because the obstacles are not exactly the same.

I find canyon difficulty also really depends on my partners. When I do canyons with highly skilled canyoneers the difficulty factor goes way down as someone in the group always finds an easy/simple way to defeat the obstacles. When I do a canyon with less skilled canyoneers all problem solving and helping falls on me, and that's a big difference. Alcatraz with a group of pro's and a group of beginner/intermediates is not the same canyon, at least to me, same with most canyons. YMMV.

[hesse15]

How does going over the narrow stuff in Hard Day Harvey compare to going over the narrow stuff in Alcatraz or Middle Leprechaun?

Thanks in advance.
is not that tight, in spots is 25 cm wide but you can just stem higher, just keep in mind could be slippery mud right now requiring some extra sweat!:stud:
here is how narrow will go.

[peakbaggers]

We did HDH last spring. The canyon was dry except for a few muddy spots. The canyon kind of suckers you in. The first hour & a half is easy in & out of narrower sections & nothing difficult. It gets much more difficult when it begins to cut through the fin formations. When it runs parallel to the fins, it's easy so you get a brief break. When it cuts through a fin, it narrows up and each narrows section is progressively more narrow. My wife & I are both "skinnies" as Shane describes and we even had to stem up at times whereas in Middle Lep, we never really had to. We've done Middle Lep 3 times. HDH once. HDH is overall a much longer day because of the drive in, hike in and long hike back out. We found it overall to be more physically demanding than Middle Lep, which we can easily do and be completely done with in 4 hours. SO overall, HDH - more stemming & higher up toward the end, more physically demanding overall, much longer day, much more driving to get to. As Shane said, a good next step from Middle Lep. I saw that Slot machine recently went through. Hopefully he's going to post a report soon.

[Iceaxe]

Hesse makes the skinny slots look easy.
:2thumbs:

But just remember you have to put sand in her pockets so she doesn't blow away in a windstorm.
:roflol:

[ratagonia]

We did HDH last spring. The canyon was dry except for a few muddy spots. The canyon kind of suckers you in. The first hour & a half is easy in & out of narrower sections & nothing difficult. It gets much more difficult when it begins to cut through the fin formations. When it runs parallel to the fins, it's easy so you get a brief break. When it cuts through a fin, it narrows up and each narrows section is progressively more narrow. My wife & I are both "skinnies" as Shane describes and we even had to stem up at times whereas in Middle Lep, we never really had to. We've done Middle Lep 3 times. HDH once. HDH is overall a much longer day because of the drive in, hike in and long hike back out. We found it overall to be more physically demanding than Middle Lep, which we can easily do and be completely done with in 4 hours. SO overall, HDH - more stemming & higher up toward the end, more physically demanding overall, much longer day, much more driving to get to. As Shane said, a good next step from Middle Lep. I saw that Slot machine recently went through. Hopefully he's going to post a report soon.

What he said, the best synopsis to date.

But, HDH tends to be quite difficult when wet. It retains water for a while after a storm. The Carmel-layer mud that is in the canyon is especially slippery.

And definitely more remote.

Tom

[Slot Machine]

How does going over the narrow stuff in Hard Day Harvey compare to going over the narrow stuff in Alcatraz or Middle Leprechaun?

Thanks in advance.

We did HDH on Monday. We only went high over one pinch at the end of the canyon, and it was cake. We literally had to leave the ground for one horizontal foot. I'm 155 lbs and Steph is 109 lbs, for reference.

The exit route and crossjoint turns are more serious matters than any high stemming in HDH, unless you are a really big guy.

Any water/mud would make that canyon MUCH harder. More so than any other canyon I've been in. So happy to catch it dry.

[ratagonia]

How were the anchors in there? How are they now?

Tom

[hesse15]

We did HDH on Monday. We only went high over one pinch at the end of the canyon, and it was cake. We literally had to leave the ground for one horizontal foot. I'm 155 lbs and Steph is 109 lbs, for reference.

The exit route and crossjoint turns are more serious matters than any high stemming in HDH, unless you are a really big guy.

Any water/mud would make that canyon MUCH harder. More so than any other canyon I've been in. So happy to catch it dry.

seems shelallah had much more " meat" in it....literally.......

[Slot Machine]

How were the anchors in there? How are they now?

Tom

They are good. We did not change any of them.

There was some extra webbing on one rap. We were carrying wetsuits in Lep packs, so we had no room to carry trash, so we left it.

The next day we hauled 100 feet of webbing out of W Shill to pay penance for that venial sin.

[qedcook]

Anyone want to go this coming Saturday (February 27th) while the conditions are so ideal?

[hesse15]

Anyone want to go this coming Saturday (February 27th) while the conditions are so ideal?
I am there but doing hogs and poison I will prefer hdh in warmer weather is dark and cold now