When is a helmet not necessary?

[Sombeech]

When do you decide that a helmet won't be necessary? Is there a mental checklist you go through, or a certain type of canyon that would deem a helmet unnecessary?

82027

[Slot Machine]

It's a little more nuanced answer than a simple multiple choices listed above. But a good poll to get the conversation started, Beech.

The past couple of weeks I've spent a bit of time thinking about this. I'm getting my sons into canyons, and we've visited a few that should have had helmets for. They are usually canyons that I *think* will have few drops/downclimbs/difficulties, then they turn out to be harder than expected. (It is difficult to predict many challenges because beta is not written for people that are two feet tall.)

My tiny son (35 lbs) moves much better without a plastic bucket strapped to his disproportionately large cranium. We did a canyon together yesterday, sans helmets, and he said to me as we moved down the canyon, "I'm killing it Dad!!". And for the first time, he was. No slips, no falls. Focused on his movement and not his accessories. Same on his bike and razor scooter, he never wears a helmet, and he never crashes. I suspect the higher center of gravity is a liability at his size. If he was a clumsy kid, it would be a different conversation. I'm glad that he had a chance to develop some quality muscle memory yesterday, but if I had it to do over, he would have worn a helmet.

Soooo... circling back to your question... generally...

D. When there are no downclimbs or rappels.

[qedcook]

The wisest answer of course is: Always wear a helmet. The lazy answer is: I don't usually need a helmet.

[skelley]

Once I tripped, fell about 2', and face planted into the opposite rock. Now I always want a helmet now. If I wasn't wearing it then, I would have been getting reconstructive surgery.

[jman]

I would suggest wearing a helmet in muddy or recently rained canyons.

Case: My friend and I were doing Birch Hollow a few years back a day or two after a rain storm and the canyon bottom was slippery! We wore our helmets through and my friend just stepped over a good-size rock and took another step and slipped backwards in the mud! He hit his head on that rock he just stepped over. Thankfully he was wearing a helmet!! And it was a hard hit to the back of the head. It happened quickly (as every accident does).


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[Sombeech]

Even as a mountain biker it can be a decision process if I just want to take a stroll on the bike along the sidewalk to the Maverik. What could possibly happen, could I really be in danger riding on the sidewalk?

Then I remember those times where I'm riding around in a parking lot BEFORE a bike ride, just to test out the bike, and I start going up and down the stairs without a helmet, after all, helmets are for losers, I don't want to be the safety nerd that stops the show just to put on a helmet before I ride down some stairs.

But lo and behold, I crash, in the parking lot. Luckily I didn't hit my head, but generally the head is the 2nd bodily object that hits the ground in most crashes.

At the moment, if I'm taking a paved bike ride with the kids, I make them wear their helmets, and I'm a bad example because I don't wear one. Now my son is starting to not wear one because it's not cool.

Then we watch the Fail compilations and I always say "ok, what wasn't he wearing?" And his reply is always, a helmet. I take those chances to teach him that nobody in those clips thought they needed helmets, and every one of them hit their head on the concrete.

I think I could be better about wearing a helmet, if only for being a good example to the kids.

[oldno7]

I was going to say in the bedroom but then I got thinking--I bet Shane has a bedroom helmet story:mrgreen:

[jman]

I was going to say in the bedroom but then I got thinking--I bet Shane has a bedroom helmet story:mrgreen:

...which we don't want to hear about. :P :bootyshake:


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[hank moon]

Obviously, when you forgot your Go Pro.

[Brian in SLC]

If you're not this guy:

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[Rob L]

I watched someone fall ~60 feet down a canyon last year sans helmet. The first "bump" knocked him out, I reckon, because he survived the rest of the fall like a rag doll.

He still needed hospital treatment, but I wonder if wearing a bone dome might have made him "resist" the rest of the drop and incur broken bones.

That having been said: I'll always wear a helmet myself.

Rob

[tanya]

I started wearing one after Tom Jones gave me enough flack. :pope:

[CanyonFreak]

I've worked in a variety of ER's, Intensive Care Units and more speficially those that deal with trauma so my opinion is no doubt skewed but here are some things to consider.

For those lucky few that are never clumsy or fall, what happens when someone else causes the injury? I have a friend who could ski before he walked and "never" crashes, someone out of control hit him while waiting in a lift line. Wasn't seriously hurt but sometimes there are factors outside our control that even "the best" can't avoid. As for Slot machines son, what happens when another kid crashes their bike into him? Ideally kids should have helmets until they are able to consent for themselves, all of them are inherently clumsy and haven't developed enough to fully comprehend the risks and consequences. They are top heavy and their head finds a way to hit first more often then not. Parents tend to have a very hard time forgiving themselves when children are brain damaged and they never enforced a helmet rule...but hindsight is always....well ya know.

To those who can't rationalize a brain bucket for protecting their quality of life, for the majority it is the most valuable(in the monetary category) part of our body. Many people with severe head trauma lose their ablity to focus and concentrate on work, becoming disabled and/or unemployed. Most of us will make at least a few million over our lifetime that is credited to our ability to critically think and problem solve. However, there will always be people that religiously pay $99 for Apple's 3 year protection plan on a $1200 laptop and find a way to justify not buying a $50 helmet for a mutli million dollar bionic CPU in their head.

When I was a kid wearing a helmet was considered very lame, these days people have a much better opinion and usually ask "why isn't that person wearing a helmet?" Helmets are trendy and cool for perhaps the first time and yet we still have this debate. I generally don't have a problem with other people not wearing helmets since there are too many people and conveniently a large organ shortage. I do feel bad for the family members who get stuck with the tough decisions and are the ones who suffer more than anyone else throughout the process because the brain dead are...technically dead.

To answer the question, I suppose any canyon involving rappeling, downclimbing, noobs or risk of rock fall warrants a helmet.

[Slot Machine]

*friendly open-minded tone*


As for Slot machines son, what happens when another kid crashes their bike into him?

Probably nothing but a skinned knee.

This 'what happens' mindset transitions nicely into a personal philosophy;

I don't even think about low probability events and refuse to waste my life accounting for such things. I don't store food. I don't store water. I don't have earthquake insurance and don't worry about shark attacks. So, if another kid crashes into him, they will likely both dust themselves off and continue playing. The likelyhood of a traumatic brain injury (for my older son) from a collision with another kid has to be less than one in 10,000. So, literally, I don't think about it.


Ideally kids should have helmets until they are able to consent for themselves,

It's not ideal if the helmet itself creates a greater risk than not having a helmet at all. This idea did not dawn on me until I spent several hours observing John with a helmet, then several hours without. He has a huge head, plus his helmet is disproportionately heavy compared to an adult's, PLUS he has a very low strength to weight ratio (compared to a grown man), which appears to make is helmet a liability. Very soon John's proportions will change, and my opinion on his circumstance will as well. My point of this rambling is that I find his current skill-to-strength-to-cranium-size ratio very novel at the moment, and am very impressed with his helmet-less ability when canyoneering/scootering/biking (especially when surrounded by his peers wearing helmets).


all of them are inherently clumsy and haven't developed enough to fully comprehend the risks and consequences. They are top heavy and their head finds a way to hit first more often then not.

All is a strong word. Not all.

Depends on the kid. John is not clumsy. He does all kinds of crazy stuff, skins his limbs constantly, but rarely leads with his head. So, I would disagree with the "more often then not" statement, and change it to 'rarely', for my 'n' of 1.

[ratagonia]

Probably nothing but a skinned knee.


Double-Down Denial - AwSoMe!

:moses:

[Slot Machine]

Double-Down Denial - AwSoMe!

:moses:

Probable skinned knee outcome... I do mean literally. Small kids are low velocity objects when on bikes.

What do you picture happening? What am I in denial of? Or is this just a drive-by snarking? :haha:

[Get in the Wild]

I personally wear one all of the time. I've seen innumerable outdoor enthusiasts injured and killed by rockfall over the past 30 years. Based on my life experience, a helmet is cheap insurance against this type of risk.

[ratagonia]

Probable skinned knee outcome... I do mean literally. Small kids are low velocity objects when on bikes.

What do you picture happening? What am I in denial of? Or is this just a drive-by snarking? :haha:

It's OK Bob. Cluelessness is part of your charm...

:moses:

[Slot Machine]

It's OK Bob. Cluelessness is part of your charm...

:roll:

Who pissed in your pothole Tom? Run out of scotch or something?

I assume that you read what I was replying to (about bike helmets). Maybe not?

Please tell me about the hours you have spent watching tiny children wearing gigantic plastic helmets (to back up your claim of me being clueless). What have you observed? (What, can't even whisper a word against the Holiest of Holies, The Sacred Church of Ever-Wearing Helmets?)

If I melted down two Home Depot buckets and molded my own helmet, it would not be proportionally this big (his bike helmet is slightly bigger). It's ABSURDLY big. So painful to watch this kid try to hike while wearing this helmet:

82096

[Sombeech]

When it comes to kids wearing helmets, some of them just won't put it on unless it's cool.

My son started to neglect his helmet when hopping on his bike, skateboard or scooter, so I bought him a "cool" helmet to help motivate him to wear it.

82098

[Slot Machine]

When I put a helmet on my kid, he's like:

82099

We both think helmets are cool. But my kid's helmet weighs 310 grams. My helmet weighs 330 grams. He weighs 35 lbs. I weigh 170 lbs. Uh, why would that pose a problem?

Errr... I mean...

Helmets help everyone, always, including these dudes:

82100

82101

[accadacca]

I frequently ride motorcycles and it's become a habit to wear a helmet. I feel naked and vulnerable without it. Even when I run to the car wash, just down the street. They say most accidents happen close to home. I have the best helmet, jacket, pants, boots and gloves that money can buy. If they are at home when I get into an accident, then they don't do me much good.

I follow the ATGATT (All The Gear All The Time) mantra.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/19/1dadcf2aaa5d3efdd75fea6b64c43120.jpg

[jon.moab]

Interesting debate. As for bike helmets Bob, spend a few extra and get a decent helmet for your son. I view it like a seat belt, a great insurance policy if I am in an accident. Do I risk not wearing one, nope. Do I allow my kids to risk chance while on their bike, nope. I couldn't live with myself if something were to happen to them....

Your son, your call.....

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[Slot Machine]

Interesting debate. As for bike helmets Bob, spend a few extra and get a decent helmet for your son. I view it like a seat belt, a great insurance policy if I am in an accident. Do I risk not wearing one, nope. Do I allow my kids to risk chance while on their bike, nope. I couldn't live with myself if something were to happen to them....

Your son, your call.....
jon.moab

I'm totally down with buying a better helmet (money is not an issue). Problem is, I can't find anything under 250 grams. Can you recommend something significantly better (and lighter)? We are talking a tiny tiny kid.

Please keep in mind that what works for a 50lb+ kid is not really relavant. 50lbs is 42% more than my kids weight, a significant size and strength advantage.

Thanks.

[hank moon]

http://www.petzl.com/en/Sport/Helmets/SIROCCO?l=INT#.VibCIGSrTpQ

http://www.petzl.com/en/Sport/Helmets/METEOR?l=INT#.VibCQWSrTpQ

maybe worth a try-on at the local shop? The orange one is hideously light

[Slot Machine]

http://www.petzl.com/en/Sport/Helmets/SIROCCO?l=INT#.VibCIGSrTpQ

http://www.petzl.com/en/Sport/Helmets/METEOR?l=INT#.VibCQWSrTpQ

maybe worth a try-on at the local shop? The orange one is hideously light


Perfect! THANK YOU @hank moon (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=1847) ! :2thumbs:

The top one looks awesome. 150 grams??? Impossible to say no. I just ordered one for John.

I'll post how it works out, in a week or so.

[hank moon]

Perfect! THANK YOU @hank moon (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=1847) ! :2thumbs:

The top one looks awesome. 150 grams??? Impossible to say no. I just ordered one for John.

I'll post how it works out in a week or so.

He'll probably dig playing with the magnetic chinstrap buckle :)

[hank moon]

Perfect! THANK YOU @hank moon (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?u=1847) ! :2thumbs:

The top one looks awesome. 150 grams??? Impossible to say no. I just ordered one for John.

I'll post how it works out, in a week or so.


<bump>

[Slot Machine]

<bump>

That ultralight helmet has helped a ton. John loves it.

It is so light and comfortable that he chooses to wear it at the climbing gym even though he knows it is not required. He also wears it when he rides his bike and while skiing.
So, thank you Hank for the great recommendation! :2thumbs:

82686

82685

-Bob

[hank moon]

That ultralight helmet has helped a ton. John loves it.

Glad it's working out, and...nice Kung Fu stances on John!