Canyoneering with scouts

[Archie]

I have been given the task of organizing our scout camp for next summer. I would like to have more of a high adventure camp and thought the boys would love to experience a canyon or two. We are in the UNPC which I know requires two certified instructors. Does anybody have any recommendations of guides that would be relatively inexpensive that I can contact to see about arranging this. Currently we are flexible regarding location as we are still in the planning stages.

Is there any non-technical canyons that can be suggested if we are unable to find guides within our budget. The closer to Utah County the better.

[kiwi_outdoors]

Expected group size?

How many days?

How many adults (not counting your commercial guides)?

What preparations are you making or have you made for this trip regarding on-rope training?

Preferred dates?

Your guides will ask questions like these (or should).

(ex ASM here)
.

[Scott Card]

Darkhorseleadership.com Spidey and Clark are the best around. Both have been on many, many youth groups.

What is the age of the scouts?

[Archie]

It is planned that we will have 10 boys and likely 2 or 3 leaders. We are looking at going either sometime in June or the first week of August. The entire trip will likely be 4 nights but was looking at canyoneering for 1 or 2 of the days. Currently the boys have little to no experience on rope. The leaders have some but not much experience (I have done the Subway and Pine Creek for example). I currently do not have plans regarding getting on rope experience but will definitely look into options prior to our trip.

[Archie]

Darkhorseleadership.com Spidey and Clark are the best around. Both have been on many, many youth groups.

What is the age of the scouts?

it will be our older scouts so age 14-17

[Scott Card]

Older kids are better in my experience. Also, I would highly recommend that you and the other leaders get as much training as possible before the trip. Then train the boys. The better trained you are the more fun everyone will have. Also, the training is a great way to bring the group together and create excitement for the activity prior to it happening. It will also build trust between you and the boys and you and the parents. I know Darkhorse has a bunch of training all year long as do other places. If you are new to this sport and are committed to having this as part of your long term activities year after year, get trained by the pros and then do as many canyons as you can.

[kiwi_outdoors]

BTW - pick canyons with escape options for flash floods.

[Archie]

I plan on taking a basic course next spring. I do not know if it will be a year after year plan but do know I want to get more comfortable in the canyons to take my family through.

[Iceaxe]

I have one major rule when dealing with youth groups, and that is I don't take them into a slot that I have not previously done myself. YMMV

[Archie]

I have one major rule when dealing with youth groups, and that is I don't take them into a slot that I have not previously done myself. YMMV

I agree that the leaders need to know what to expect when going through a canyon with youth. This ensures that the canyon is something the youth are able to do plus will help ensure that the canyon is done as safely as possible.

[CanyonHawks]

I would take them thru some minor, even non-technical canyons and see how they do.
Ding/dang, Crack canyon and Little Wild horse in the swell, Spooky and Peekaboo and Calf Creek in Escalante are good ones to see how they will do and might be enough adventure for them without requiring rappels. They can suffice as great trips by themselves.
Keyhole (shudder) is a good starter in zZon.
Subway and Orderville are good options they can enjoy without major rappels if you can get permits.
RIGHT fork of Leprechaun is a good beginners canyon with only one or two raps.
Birch Hollow in Zions, U-Turn and Elephant Butte in Moab are next steps up ( but rules have changed on group size now in Arches).
I've taken a number of groups through Pinecreek but don't like it. Usually get slowed down by others too much. I avoid it with groups now.

As a side note, after taking hundreds of scouts and youth through a number of canyons a few of my basic rules are:
1. I only take them through canyons I know and have multiple times
2. I always take someone else I trust to be first man down and double-check things.
3. All youth and leaders must have rappelled before including free hangs - don't teach them in the canyon.
4. All youth and leaders must know how to belay. Too many leaders always trust top belay - which is good but everyone needs to know how to bottom belay
5. The "NEVER JUMP" rule - they have to promise never to jump no matter how short the drop looks
6. It ALWAYS takes much longer than you plan - so plan for it.
7. Always have extra gear and ropes. Someone will forget something or drop something. Make them carry it.
8. Injuries usually happen on the approach hike or exit hike. Helmets are not just for Raps
9. Be extra careful on the weather. The trip will take longer - often far longer than expected so take no chances.

[Stray]

9. Be extra careful on the weather. The trip will take longer - often far longer than expected so take no chances.

So true. The trip will take a lot longer than expected (unless all your boys are very experienced).

It took 1 1/2 hours to do the rappel in Three Canyons with 4 leaders and 8 boys. One boy took 20 minutes by himself.

It took 8 hours to do Big Horn with 7 leaders and 9 young women (ages 12 - 18).

We start the boys at twelve on Ding & Dang. Mostly teaching them rather than helping them.

Our entire youth organization (boys & girls 12 - 17), goes rappelling once or twice a year.

The weather in June is more predictable than August.

Good luck and be safe.

[Canyonbug]

Our company frequently does large scout groups and offer discounts for scout groups. We are limited to the areas we guide in so you'd need to be willing to come to south eastern Utah and hit some North Wash stuff or Cedar Mesa. We would be happy to chat with you about options available and what we could do. A lot of what has been said rings true. The more experience the better and the younger the boys, the harder they are to control and keep entertained. The older boys, 16-18 usually do really well, the 14-16, it depends on the group dynamics. Give us a shout if you'd like to chat. We can provide some references on past scout groups we have done this year.

jhillhouse at northwashoutfitters dot com (jhillhouse@northwashoutfitters.com)

www. northwashoutfitters.com (http://www. northwashoutfitters.com)

[Get in the Wild]

Hi Archie. Great question!

I've been instructing Scouts in wilderness education for the past 20 years. I recommend contacting a few different guiding companies and talking one on one with a guide regarding your interests, group size, prior climbing experience as well as the companies experience with Scouts. We operate technical canyoneering courses in the Dirty Devil/Robber's Roost wilderness area and San Rafael Swell. This area has some of the closest technical slot canyons to Utah County.

Feel free to contact me personally if you would like to discuss further. We just got finished instructing a group of 10 Scouts this past Saturday and are happy to provide you with a variety of recommendations from previous Scouts.

Best Regards,

Christopher Hagedorn
Owner/Lead Guide
Get In The Wild Adventures
www.getinthewild.com
818-381-WILD
info@getinthewild.com

[Archie]

Thanks for all your feedback. It gives me some things to think about and I will start contacting some of the guides here shortly to help create a plan.